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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 18:27:53 GMT
A video about the history of EA and loot box style micro transaction Great video! I doubt a lot of folks here would take the time to view it because they want to continue to defend EA. However, after watching the video, I honestly cannot see how or why anyone here would defend EA. The only reason I can see is cause Bioware is tied to EA and by defending EA, you are essentially defending Bioware. EA deserves all the flack they get.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 18:29:33 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 24, 2017 19:02:32 GMT
I doubt a lot of folks here would take the time to view it because they want to continue to defend EA. However, after watching the video, I honestly cannot see how or why anyone here would defend EA. The only reason I can see is cause Bioware is tied to EA and by defending EA, you are essentially defending Bioware. EA deserves all the flack they get. If you think that what people do here is "defending EA" when they disagree with some of your points you are grossly mistaken. Nevermind that I think that the video itself is not really that objective, given that it does stuff like touting the narrative that "EA destroyed Visceral" or "destroyed Mass Effect", while there are reports that show that the situation was way more complex than that, or him obviously trying to defend Blizzard with what Overwatch does with loot crates, when even Jim Sterling - a person quoted in the video - says that they're part of the issue too.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 19:34:01 GMT
I doubt a lot of folks here would take the time to view it because they want to continue to defend EA. However, after watching the video, I honestly cannot see how or why anyone here would defend EA. The only reason I can see is cause Bioware is tied to EA and by defending EA, you are essentially defending Bioware. EA deserves all the flack they get. If you think that what people do here is "defending EA" when they disagree with some of your points you are grossly mistaken. Nevermind that I think that the video itself is not really that objective, given that it does stuff like touting the narrative that "EA destroyed Visceral" or "destroyed Mass Effect", while there are reports that show that the situation was way more complex than that, or him obviously trying to defend Blizzard with what Overwatch does with loot crates, when even Jim Sterling - a person quoted in the video - says that they're part of the issue too. ALL games that have loot boxes and MTs arr part of the issue. What the argument here is that the MTs in SWBF2 arr tied to player progression....which ultimately leads to Pay 2 Win scenarios. Overwatch is getting a "free pass" (for now) because it is not tied to player progression.....SWBF2 is....which is why it is currently EA/SWBF2 and not Blizzard/Overwatch that is getting all the flack. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 24, 2017 19:35:07 GMT
Well, EA’s next earnings call with investors is on January 30th.
I look forward to what they’ll have to say on this whole debacle then. If this has changed their plans going forward, I expect that’s when we’ll find out.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 19:40:42 GMT
I doubt a lot of folks here would take the time to view it because they want to continue to defend EA. However, after watching the video, I honestly cannot see how or why anyone here would defend EA. The only reason I can see is cause Bioware is tied to EA and by defending EA, you are essentially defending Bioware. EA deserves all the flack they get. If you think that what people do here is "defending EA" when they disagree with some of your points you are grossly mistaken. Nevermind that I think that the video itself is not really that objective, given that it does stuff like touting the narrative that "EA destroyed Visceral" or "destroyed Mass Effect", while there are reports that show that the situation was way more complex than that, or him obviously trying to defend Blizzard with what Overwatch does with loot crates, when even Jim Sterling - a person quoted in the video - says that they're part of the issue too. Also because the author made claims about EA destroying MEA and Visceral, you are willing to discount everything else in the video? Seems like selective hearing....
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 19:42:47 GMT
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 19:48:46 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 24, 2017 19:59:22 GMT
If you think that what people do here is "defending EA" when they disagree with some of your points you are grossly mistaken. Nevermind that I think that the video itself is not really that objective, given that it does stuff like touting the narrative that "EA destroyed Visceral" or "destroyed Mass Effect", while there are reports that show that the situation was way more complex than that, or him obviously trying to defend Blizzard with what Overwatch does with loot crates, when even Jim Sterling - a person quoted in the video - says that they're part of the issue too. Also because the author made claims about EA destroying MEA and Visceral, you are willing to discount everything else in the video? Seems like selective hearing.... Stop accusing me of what you yourself are doing. You picked a video that supported your views and seem to treat it as objective truth. That's the definition of being selective. But noooo - it never applies to you. Only to others, right? And no - saying that the video is biased doesn't mean that I "discount everything that in the video". I don't like what EA does with their model, but I don't believe that things are as simple as Skill Up makes it to be, as he tries to create that narrative about it being a fault of one greedy CEO. The whole industry is at a turning point when it comes to loot crates, even the more innocuous ones, just like it was with previous controversies that were supposed to entice people to spend more money on their products or impose stuff like DRM. I don't necessarily believe mts or loot crates will disappear ,nor I believe that they're bad from the get go. People have proven time and time again that they like and will buy oodles of additional products for the games, myself included; the issue is to make the model less predatory. So I'm fairly glad that this controversy may make the market a bit healthier. But that'll last till some other company finds what they think is a golden revenue model and the cycle repeats all over again.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 20:14:33 GMT
Also because the author made claims about EA destroying MEA and Visceral, you are willing to discount everything else in the video? Seems like selective hearing.... Stop accusing me of what you yourself are doing. You picked a video that supported your views and seem to treat it as objective truth. That's the definition of being selective. But noooo - it never applies to you. Only to others, right? And no - saying that the video is biased doesn't mean that I "discount everything that in the video". I don't like what EA does with their model, but I don't believe that things are as simple as Skill Up makes it to be, as he tries to create that narrative about it being a fault of one greedy CEO. The whole industry is at a turning point when it comes to loot crates, even the more innocuous ones, just like it was with previous controversies that were supposed to entice people to spend more money on their products or impose stuff like DRM. I don't necessarily believe mts or loot crates will disappear ,nor I believe that they're bad from the get go. People have proven time and time again that they like and will buy oodles of additional products for the games, myself included; the issue is to make the model less predatory. So I'm fairly glad that this controversy may make the market a bit healthier. But that'll last till some other company finds what they think is a golden revenue model and the cycle repeats all over again. 1) I didnt pick the video, I just replied to it. 2) I support the video because it is the truth. Yes, there are some details in there that were off, but overall the videp is valid in that it shows how EA progressed from non-profit UEFA Ultimate Team cards to the highly profitable Ultimate team cards in FIFA and Madden and how EA is trying to expand that Pay 2 Win business model in all of their games. 3) I think a lot of people who are not so eager to blame EA appears to do so out of the facr that Bioware is under EA and by criticising EA, you are also criticising Bioware....especially when their next big game, Anthem, is likely to have predatory MT functions. And given how the "internet" brought down MEA, some hardcore Bioware fans do not want the same to happen with Anthem cause if Anthem fails, then Bioware could pretty much be done from that point. So they will defend EA because they want to shield Bioware from what is most likely going to be a marketing/PR challenge for Anthem. On one front, they are trying to fight against the claims that Anthem killed MEA....another front is the whole games as a service/MT business model. And for disclosure, I have said before that I hope Anthem fails.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 24, 2017 20:30:51 GMT
You surprise me. So you believe that Bioware can make an SP-only game that is competitive with TW3? Some of your previous comments led me to believe otherwise. It's not just about MP. In fact, I'd say the real competitive pressure is to move into action-oriented games. We saw this with the evolution of gameplay in DA, particularly DAI. Action-oriented games sell more units than straight-up RPGs, by a lot (with TW3 a notable exception). The MP pressure, I think, is more about opening up opportunities for recurring revenue (MTX). I believe they can be competitive with TW3 and Horizon if they [Bioware] stuck to their strenghts which is linear worlds. But isn't that a capitulation on the face of it? "We can't compete with open world SP-only RPGs, so we'll make linear world SP-only RPGs." That said, if all that matters is unit sales, I suppose that's possible. Not likely, it's too obvious of a difference/retreat that reviewers will pick on, but fine. But, bringing this back on topic, will they be as much of a financial success if they had an MP component with recurring review? If we're using revenue over the life of the game, rather than unit sales, as the metric for success, I think the games with MP and lootboxes have a decided advantage. I mean, somewhat obviously, that's why we're in the crappy state of gaming we are today. If there was no revenue incentive, it wouldn't be happening.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 24, 2017 20:47:49 GMT
Stop accusing me of what you yourself are doing. You picked a video that supported your views and seem to treat it as objective truth. That's the definition of being selective. But noooo - it never applies to you. Only to others, right? And no - saying that the video is biased doesn't mean that I "discount everything that in the video". I don't like what EA does with their model, but I don't believe that things are as simple as Skill Up makes it to be, as he tries to create that narrative about it being a fault of one greedy CEO. The whole industry is at a turning point when it comes to loot crates, even the more innocuous ones, just like it was with previous controversies that were supposed to entice people to spend more money on their products or impose stuff like DRM. I don't necessarily believe mts or loot crates will disappear ,nor I believe that they're bad from the get go. People have proven time and time again that they like and will buy oodles of additional products for the games, myself included; the issue is to make the model less predatory. So I'm fairly glad that this controversy may make the market a bit healthier. But that'll last till some other company finds what they think is a golden revenue model and the cycle repeats all over again. 1) I didnt pick the video, I just replied to it. You picked the video' to support your own narrative, stop beings so literal. See, this is what I'm talking about. You deemed the video 'the truth' and seem to pretty much consider it a K.O. against 'anyone who defends EA' or other nonsense like that, even if you acknowledge that there were things there that were 'off'. Also, I'd like to point it that the video itself mentions more than once that EA has/had plans to turn specific game types to model resembling FIFA - shooters like Battlefront or racing games like NFS. So you even got the video wrong in what it's presenting. See, you've created this narrative in your head and apparently you're so far in it that you can't see that people have other reasons to disagree with you other than 'defending EA, because Bioware belongs to EA and hardcore fans don't want Bioware to fail'. But some people view this as a way more complicated issue that goes beyond EA or Bioware. Heck - it is demonstrably not just an issue with EA, even if they significantly contributed to the problem. The gaming industry is sort of going through a fit of growing pains, if not a shift that is dictated by what's happening with economy at large or other branches of entertainment industry. We're yet to see how things will settle, for a time being at least, or whether this debacle will have any impact on games like Anthem, or if Anthem and what it offers will have an impact on the industry, or whether it will be positive or not. You may have already decided in your head what happens to EA or Bioware or Anthem, but IMO it's too early to make any claims predictions.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 24, 2017 21:30:50 GMT
Since people have been posting links about countries that are looking into investigating lootboxes, the UK Gambling commissions said the line is getting blurred, but they still don't cross into gambling yet. UK Gambling Commission
So it isn't a clear case like it is being made out to be.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 24, 2017 23:22:16 GMT
But some people view this as a way more complicated issue that goes beyond EA or Bioware. Heck - it is demonstrably not just an issue with EA, even if they significantly contributed to the problem. The gaming industry is sort of going through a fit of growing pains, if not a shift that is dictated by what's happening with economy at large or other branches of entertainment industry. We're yet to see how things will settle, for a time being at least, or whether this debacle will have any impact on games like Anthem, or if Anthem and what it offers will have an impact on the industry, or whether it will be positive or not. You may have already decided in your head what happens to EA or Bioware or Anthem, but IMO it's too early to make any claims predictions. Like I said in another thread, it is no coincidence that many of the people here who defend EA are the same people who didn't want to believe that MEA wasn't getting any SP DLC. Instead of just flat out admitting that EA was in the wrong with SWBF2, you and many others try to spread the blame by saying that this isn't an EA problem but an industry problem. Yes, MTs is an industry problem, but this stuff with SWBF2 is more than just MTs, it is how it is implemented. As bad as Horse Armor was for Bethesda, it still wasn't tied to player progression and still didnt cause any Play to Win scenarios. As bad as Shark Cards are for GTA online, all GTA Online MTs are cosmetic only and isn't tied to your player stats/progression.....just how cool t hey look in new clothes and fancy cars. NBA2K's Virtual Currency IS tied to player progression. However, there are 2 things that lets Take Two off the hook: #1 You can directly buy points to upgrade your player; which means you aren't "gambling" in the hopes of opening an box to get the upgrade you want. If you want an upgrade to shoot 3 pointers better, just buy some VC and use the VC to upgrade your 3Pointer skills. You do not need to buy lootboxes in the hopes that in there, you get an upgrade for 3Pointers. #2, it isn't Pay to Win as the VC you use in terms of player skills is only used in your MyPlayer or MyTeam modes, which are both SP based, unlike Battlefront 2 where it is a MP based game. There are many other examples but those are just a few. Point is, MTs IS an industry problem like you say. But what makes SWBF2 stand out is that it has P2W components to it unlike Horse Armor, Shark Cards, and Virtual Currency. This is where the argument is and THAT is why EA is being singled out for it because they are the biggest publisher in the industry and Star Wars is arguably one of the biggest brands in the world, so put the two together and you get where we are today with this becoming not just some internet forum issue, but a mainstream issue that has reached mainstream media.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 24, 2017 23:45:43 GMT
I'm not seeing many people defending EA here, but there's only so many torches and pitchforks to go around. Personally, I think things need to settle down a little. EA/DICE need to think about the progression economy in BFII, beyond their quick 'fix'. EA need to think about the fundamentals of their game economies, as do other publishers and consumer regulators. I'd be surprised if much will happen on any of these fronts this side of the New Year.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 25, 2017 0:07:40 GMT
I'm not seeing many people defending EA here, but there's only so many torches and pitchforks to go around. Personally, I think things need to settle down a little. EA/DICE need to think about the progression economy in BFII, beyond their quick 'fix'. EA need to think about the fundamentals of their game economies, as do other publishers and consumer regulators. I'd be surprised if much will happen on any of these fronts this side of the New Year. I think we're looking at something that may take years to straighten, given that such strategies kinda must be planned years ahead. But this is probably where 'live service' model may yet prove advantageous, given that it oftentimes means longer support periods and perhaps enough of flexibility in the code to keep adding stuff, so the devs/publishers may have more of a window to fix or address much bigger problems than what usually gets deployed in post-release patches. I suppose all we can do is wait and see.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 25, 2017 0:09:50 GMT
I think we're looking at something that may take years to straighten, given that such strategies kinda must be planned years ahead. But this is probably where 'live service' model may yet prove advantageous, given that it oftentimes means longer support periods and perhaps enough of flexibility in the code to keep adding stuff, so the devs/publishers may have more of a window to fix or address much bigger problems than what usually gets deployed in post-release patches. I suppose all we can do is wait and see. Indeed, and BioWare have 8-12 months to figure out Anthem's economy before we hit a beta...
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 1:37:40 GMT
I'm not seeing many people defending EA here, but there's only so many torches and pitchforks to go around. Personally, I think things need to settle down a little. EA/DICE need to think about the progression economy in BFII, beyond their quick 'fix'. EA need to think about the fundamentals of their game economies, as do other publishers and consumer regulators. I'd be surprised if much will happen on any of these fronts this side of the New Year. I think we're looking at something that may take years to straighten, given that such strategies kinda must be planned years ahead. But this is probably where 'live service' model may yet prove advantageous, given that it oftentimes means longer support periods and perhaps enough of flexibility in the code to keep adding stuff, so the devs/publishers may have more of a window to fix or address much bigger problems than what usually gets deployed in post-release patches. I suppose all we can do is wait and see. I think the length of time to fix things is based on a lot of variables. Such as with Anthem it is a completely new IP and really anything goes they just need to figure out what they want to accomplish with the rewards, but something like Battlefront since it uses the Star Wars IP, they have to go through extra levels of garbage dealing with Disney and what they will and will not allow.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 1:49:43 GMT
I'm not seeing many people defending EA here, but there's only so many torches and pitchforks to go around. Personally, I think things need to settle down a little. EA/DICE need to think about the progression economy in BFII, beyond their quick 'fix'. EA need to think about the fundamentals of their game economies, as do other publishers and consumer regulators. I'd be surprised if much will happen on any of these fronts this side of the New Year. Do you honestly expect EA to change? Their profits have jumped sky high and so has their share price since the implementation of MTs in their games a few years ago. They will settle down as you suggest and expect Anthem to pick up where SWbF2 left off at. Remember, the only reason why EA took down the MTs in bF2 is because Disney got involved. Anthem is not a Disney property, but EA. In addition, Anthem is not a big well known brand like Star Wars and thus whatever things EA tries to do with Anthem, will not make the mainstream media like Battlefront 2 did. Expect Anthem to feature MTs that somehow ties it to player progression. As for people defending EA, well perhaps not you but some people here are. They aren't out right saying EA is right/isn't doing anything wrong, but they aren't exactly agreeing that EA deserves the flack they are getting now. Instead, they deflect blame and make it seem like this is an industry thing and that EA is just playing ball and doing what all other publishers do. When in fact, that factually just isn't correct. Name 1 AAA videogame out there that has lootbox pay 2 win mechanics that is tied to player progression. You probably cant....which proves the fact that it is ONLY EA that currently is pushing for P2W in their games. As I outline above, Rockstar Games and other publishers/developers has MTs and even gaming loot boxes, but they aren't tied to player progression and are more cosmetic and not actual functional things like in Battlefront 2. However for some reason, some of those people just want to ignore that and still act like EA is doing nothing wrong.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 1:51:57 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 25, 2017 3:04:22 GMT
I'm not seeing many people defending EA here, but there's only so many torches and pitchforks to go around. Personally, I think things need to settle down a little. EA/DICE need to think about the progression economy in BFII, beyond their quick 'fix'. EA need to think about the fundamentals of their game economies, as do other publishers and consumer regulators. I'd be surprised if much will happen on any of these fronts this side of the New Year. Do you honestly expect EA to change? Their profits have jumped sky high and so has their share price since the implementation of MTs in their games a few years ago. They will settle down as you suggest and expect Anthem to pick up where SWbF2 left off at. Remember, the only reason why EA took down the MTs in bF2 is because Disney got involved. Anthem is not a Disney property, but EA. In addition, Anthem is not a big well known brand like Star Wars and thus whatever things EA tries to do with Anthem, will not make the mainstream media like Battlefront 2 did. Expect Anthem to feature MTs that somehow ties it to player progression. Well if you agree with Skill Up's video, you should probably know that one of his big arguments against EA was a relative lack of new IPs. Guess what shiny and new EA IP will come out next year? That's right: Anthem. If you think people will not have eyes all over everything Anthem does and offers, I've got some news for you. Especially that now we hear that EA not only adjusts Battlefront 2, but announced changes to last Need For Speed's economy as well - a title not that many people care about (compared to others) and is not owned by anyone but EA. "No, they're just PRETENDING they don't defend EA, but I know better!"... sigh Also - 'doing what other publishers do' is not exactly a defense. I can't speak for everyone else here, but the general consensus seems to be that no, people don't like where things are going, be it in EA or across the medium. Well duh - Shadow of Mordor 2! Forza 7. Injustice 2 got some flack as well, for selling leveling boosters in their mts store. And that's off the top of my head. Practically every game that features microtransactions and loot crates is aggressively scanned for any sign of P2W practices and been so for years.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 3:13:43 GMT
Do you honestly expect EA to change? Their profits have jumped sky high and so has their share price since the implementation of MTs in their games a few years ago. They will settle down as you suggest and expect Anthem to pick up where SWbF2 left off at. Remember, the only reason why EA took down the MTs in bF2 is because Disney got involved. Anthem is not a Disney property, but EA. In addition, Anthem is not a big well known brand like Star Wars and thus whatever things EA tries to do with Anthem, will not make the mainstream media like Battlefront 2 did. Expect Anthem to feature MTs that somehow ties it to player progression. Well if you agree with Skill Up's video, you should probably know that one of his big arguments against EA was a relative lack of new IPs. Guess what shiny and new EA IP will come out next year? That's right: Anthem. If you think people will not have eyes all over everything Anthem does and offers, I've got some news for you. Especially that now we hear that EA not only adjusts Battlefront 2, but announced changes to last Need For Speed's economy as well - a title not that many people care about (compared to others) and is not owned by anyone but EA. "No, they're just PRETENDING they don't defend EA, but I know better!"... sigh
Also - 'doing what other publishers do' is not exactly a defense. I can't speak for everyone else here, but the general consensus seems to be that no, people don't like where things are going, be it in EA or across the medium.Well duh - Shadow of Mordor 2! Forza 7. Injustice 2 got some flack as well, for selling leveling boosters in their mts store. And that's off the top of my head. Practically every game that features microtransactions and loot crates is aggressively scanned for any sign of P2W practices and been so for years. I know my arguments are that I am tired of people holding EA alone to be accountable or the reason for this. Its just that people like to vilify EA and praise Valve even though they turned a blind eye to their gambling issues for a long time. that WBEI had pay2win mechanics for single player in Shadow of War, even not mentioning that Blizzard side-stepped laws in China trying to regulate lootboxes, or even the new microtransaction patent from Activision. Its not that I am condoning lootboxes, I just want everyone held to the same standard and not holding EA to some mythical standard that nobody else seems to be held to. Its been a banner year for all publishers doing something stupid and I want them all held accountable and not just EA.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 6:45:55 GMT
Well if you agree with Skill Up's video, you should probably know that one of his big arguments against EA was a relative lack of new IPs. Guess what shiny and new EA IP will come out next year? That's right: Anthem. If you think people will not have eyes all over everything Anthem does and offers, I've got some news for you. Especially that now we hear that EA not only adjusts Battlefront 2, but announced changes to last Need For Speed's economy as well - a title not that many people care about (compared to others) and is not owned by anyone but EA. "No, they're just PRETENDING they don't defend EA, but I know better!"... sigh
Also - 'doing what other publishers do' is not exactly a defense. I can't speak for everyone else here, but the general consensus seems to be that no, people don't like where things are going, be it in EA or across the medium.Well duh - Shadow of Mordor 2! Forza 7. Injustice 2 got some flack as well, for selling leveling boosters in their mts store. And that's off the top of my head. Practically every game that features microtransactions and loot crates is aggressively scanned for any sign of P2W practices and been so for years. I know my arguments are that I am tired of people holding EA alone to be accountable or the reason for this. Its just that people like to vilify EA and praise Valve even though they turned a blind eye to their gambling issues for a long time. that WBEI had pay2win mechanics for single player in Shadow of War, even not mentioning that Blizzard side-stepped laws in China trying to regulate lootboxes, or even the new microtransaction patent from Activision. Its not that I am condoning lootboxes, I just want everyone held to the same standard and not holding EA to some mythical standard that nobody else seems to be held to. Its been a banner year for all publishers doing something stupid and I want them all held accountable and not just EA. I just have this feeling that many people (the Bioware loyalist) are irked about all this lootbox nonsense cause they know Anthem will have them and if SWBF2 can be ruined due to outrage, then so could Anthem.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 7:23:06 GMT
I know my arguments are that I am tired of people holding EA alone to be accountable or the reason for this. Its just that people like to vilify EA and praise Valve even though they turned a blind eye to their gambling issues for a long time. that WBEI had pay2win mechanics for single player in Shadow of War, even not mentioning that Blizzard side-stepped laws in China trying to regulate lootboxes, or even the new microtransaction patent from Activision. Its not that I am condoning lootboxes, I just want everyone held to the same standard and not holding EA to some mythical standard that nobody else seems to be held to. Its been a banner year for all publishers doing something stupid and I want them all held accountable and not just EA. I just have this feeling that many people (the Bioware loyalist) are irked about all this lootbox nonsense cause they know Anthem will have them and if SWBF2 can be ruined due to outrage, then so could Anthem. There might be a few people like that, but just like the polar opposite that people are blaming for killing Andromeda with YouTube videos it probably a small portion of the community. My problem is mostly short sighted of the pure focus on EA since might cause any change to be really meaningless for other areas that they are already exploiting will be missed. I don't think Valve did enough to prevent its marketplace from being exploited, but since people are ignoring what Valve is doing there might not be anything to prevent EA from doing exactly what Valve is doing now which I am still unsure about.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 25, 2017 7:49:40 GMT
I just have this feeling that many people (the Bioware loyalist) are irked about all this lootbox nonsense cause they know Anthem will have them and if SWBF2 can be ruined due to outrage, then so could Anthem. I'm not convinced by the logic in: - Categorizing people as a group, 'BioWare loyalists', 'EA defenders', etc.
- Speculatively assuming that all the people in that category have a single opinion or motivation.
- Criticising the people in the group you constructed, based on the motivations or opinions you that created or assumed.
Would it not be more constructive to simply share your views and opinions, without having to rail against an opposing faction (that you have created) putting words in their mouths? Hmm?
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