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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 25, 2017 8:49:43 GMT
It's gone a bit quiet around the lootbox discussion and while you guys have been looking to get a room I've been pondering about the remark about economy. What's really meant is "progression" I think. In order to fill that "10 years of salvation" it comes down to deliver new content once in a while. I don't think players generally dislike some amount of random progression, for it makes each playthrough/career somewhat different. Then it'll have to be balanced right so people don't burn through it too fast and like to replay it. For that you need to get the gameplay right so that people play for the gameplay alone and maybe come up with their own challenges.
One of the easiest ways to create content is to have players go against each other in PvP - laziest development ever. If it wasn't for the balance of PvP to PvE. And it`s likely to cause friction. While I've been playing happily pure PvP games, I haven't seen many (or any) PvP/PvE hybrids that do it right.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 25, 2017 9:32:57 GMT
In single player games of old, it was possible to finish the game, whether it took 40, 80 or 120 hours...
Mass Effect 3 multiplayer changed that for me (my first multiplayer) and I spent over 1,000 hours in that mode. But I never maxed my manifest (wasn't that far off) and I understand that maxing would take most people 800-1,600 hours or so, depending on match difficulty choice.
So Battlefront II would take 4,000 hours to max? That model is broken to me.
I don't like PvP because I have the nagging feeling that some person with better weapons is just going to own me for their amusement. At least with PvE the challenge is consistent and relies upon my skill, not some random aspect of the other player's skill or loadout.
I'm open to BioWare doing something clever, but I'm not aware enough of what that clever thing could be.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 25, 2017 9:52:07 GMT
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 25, 2017 11:50:46 GMT
In single player games of old, it was possible to finish the game, whether it took 40, 80 or 120 hours... Mass Effect 3 multiplayer changed that for me (my first multiplayer) and I spent over 1,000 hours in that mode. But I never maxed my manifest (wasn't that far off) and I understand that maxing would take most people 800-1,600 hours or so, depending on match difficulty choice. So Battlefront II would take 4,000 hours to max? That model is broken to me. I don't like PvP because I have the nagging feeling that some person with better weapons is just going to own me for their amusement. At least with PvE the challenge is consistent and relies upon my skill, not some random aspect of the other player's skill or loadout. I'm open to BioWare doing something clever, but I'm not aware enough of what that clever thing could be. -(_ANTHEM_)-
While 4k hours is definitely a large chunk from one's lifetime, I believe it's irrelevant to EA's thinking. Remember that EA itself wrote that their metrics shows most players don't finish the game. So, you then develop a game with MTs / LPs for that portion of the game that the majority of gamers will be invested in. This is the area where a studio will attempt to max the dastardly monetization scheme.
Following this logic, clever Anthem may attempt to hook the player in the first 20 hours or so with a fast progression rate then slow it down. Clever EA/Bio will allow game review magazines to play the first 10-15 hours of the game before the bait and switch gets activated. Last, clever EA/Bio won't give a rats azz if the player never finishes the game.
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 25, 2017 13:32:19 GMT
clever EA/Bio won't give a rats azz if the player never finishes the game. In part, it kind of depends on what 'finishing the game' means. Some games make an issue of completing or collecting 'all the things', including whether you can '100%' the game. Others less so. If I had a choice to 'max' a weapon I liked, I would be less troubled about simply not collecting weapons I had no interest in using. (but some people feel differently) The randomness makes this problematic. If I go shopping in town, stores do not present me with lootboxes containing mystery items I may want. I can buy exactly what I want, but not so in many games.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 14:32:22 GMT
Someone didn't get the memo.
{snip} That is my concern with all the focus purely on EA and Battlefront 2, that other companies wouldn't take notice or that practices that aren't 100% like Battlefront's will be assumed to be okay by publishers. To me instead of every sentence being "EA did this" it should have been directed more at the lootboxes themselves after awhile especially after EA suspended them.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 15:31:16 GMT
That is my concern with all the focus purely on EA and Battlefront 2, that other companies wouldn't take notice or that practices that aren't 100% like Battlefront's will be assumed to be okay by publishers. To me instead of every sentence being "EA did this" it should have been directed more at the lootboxes themselves after awhile especially after EA suspended them. Sure. But it's not a coincidence that EA has the dubious honor of pioneering this level of the unholy trinity (in a full priced game) - MT, LB, & P2W, with a game that features deliberately slow progression. Shadow of War was the first to do that though. The first 2/3rds of the game is fine, but to get the final ending it is a gauntlet of endless grinding that is lessened by buying lootboxes to get better orcs and equipment for them.
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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 25, 2017 16:25:40 GMT
Now it seems France is getting in on the LB issue.. Click
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 17:55:23 GMT
I just have this feeling that many people (the Bioware loyalist) are irked about all this lootbox nonsense cause they know Anthem will have them and if SWBF2 can be ruined due to outrage, then so could Anthem. There might be a few people like that, but just like the polar opposite that people are blaming for killing Andromeda with YouTube videos it probably a small portion of the community. My problem is mostly short sighted of the pure focus on EA since might cause any change to be really meaningless for other areas that they are already exploiting will be missed. I don't think Valve did enough to prevent its marketplace from being exploited, but since people are ignoring what Valve is doing there might not be anything to prevent EA from doing exactly what Valve is doing now which I am still unsure about. In my opinion this is why EA is being singled out: 1) They're EA and gamers has always hated them and this presented the perfect opportunity for them to straight. It was the "2 meters wide" Death Star vulnerability so to speak. 2) It is Star Wars and arguably one of the more popular brands in the world. Which leads to number 3..... 3) People (including myself) are still bitter that EA has exclusive rights to SW and hopes that lessons like this could provoke Disney to not extend their deal. It is now over 4 years since EA had the license and they only just released their 2nd SW game. In addition, that game is on pace to sell lower than the first and is being bombarded in the media. The 3rd game, which wad being made by Visceral was cancelled. So what good has EA done so far with the brand? 4) People are still upset that DICE cannot match what Pandemic did with the 2005 version of SWBF2. Even the cancelled SWBF3 showed the potiential of the IP which DICE still has not been able to do. 5) It is linked to player progression and in a PvP game, MTs being linked to progression creates P2W situations. If other games also had P2W, then refer to 1-4 to see why all the fuss is on EA.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 17:57:48 GMT
Now it seems France is getting in on the LB issue.. ClickGood
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 18:34:40 GMT
The thing I find the most disappointing about EA holding the SW franchise as far as games are concerned, is that it means that we have almost no chance to see games similar to legendary SW titles of the past, it's likely all going to be MP and all about "games as a service" (*wink* *wink*). Likely no chance to see another KOTOR, Jedi academy, TFU, etc. Hell, even the one they had in development got killed because it couldn't present the same earning potential of a FIFA game (that's the rumor anyway) among other reasons. The funny thing about "games as a service" is that I'd be happy to buy expansions, you know, old school expansions. But that's apparently too much work. Much easier to slap on P2W MT. I doubt we would see games like that even if it wasn't EA. Disney seems to be condensing their game portfolio since they pulled all support for the Marvel Heroes game this month, so they probably would look for a large publisher so they only have to deal with one company and not a bunch of smaller ones. The costs of developing Star Wars games are probably on the higher end too so I doubt the mid-range developers would make a game that the majority of players would be happy with. So that pretty much leaves the develop by numbers system of major publishers. As far as the one that got killed, it could have also been Disney who wanted the plug pulled as well, for they want to maximize profit. Its why I think if they put pressure on EA about Battlefront it wasn't because of customers being treated badly, but the risk of impact on The Last Jedi which probably is going to make a lot more then a billion dollars at the theaters. I really don't think the way expansions were in the past would work in the current climate of gaming. Putting a lot of development time and money into an expansion that only has a very small market since about a year after launch there are only a small percentage of players still playing the game. Its why I think BioWare's last expansion Awakening was released in the state it was because they ran out of money. So if DLC never existed I think expansions would still be gone by now.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 19:24:55 GMT
Yeah, the EA - Disney partnership is certainly one of mutual understanding and similar attitudes. I have no illusions that Disney are somehow the heroes of the BF2 debacle. I really don't think the way expansions were in the past would work in the current climate of gaming. Putting a lot of development time and money into an expansion that only has a very small market since about a year after launch there are only a small percentage of players still playing the game. Its why I think BioWare's last expansion Awakening was released in the state it was because they ran out of money. So if DLC never existed I think expansions would still be gone by now. Not necessarily. TW3's expansions were better than the base game IMO, and as far as I know they were a success. XCOM2 has an expansion. Even Dishonored 2 got an expansion (which I'm not really interested in, but that's just me). Tyranny got an expansion. I'm sure that there are other examples that I don't remember off the top of my head. I mean, I'm sure that at the end of the day they are all looking for their interests here. But I'm just going to point out anyway that this is a model of "games as a service" which I'm completely okay with, and will be happy to pay for in the case of a game which I enjoyed. Hell, for a meaty expansion I'd consider paying even close to a full price. I am not sure how I feel about The Witcher 3 ones, now I didn't play them for I didn't make it through the game. From the way my friends describe them it would have taken both to be the same as one expansion from the past. So many smaller expansions might be something to try with the season pass idea so people pay upfront for them so they don't run into other problems. I would need to see what the expansion for Dishonored 2 is like first hand before I can really comment on that one since I don't know anyone that kept their copy of Dishonored 2 for they all returned it. Personally as you I would be okay with having a major expansion even if it costed the same as a base game, but it does require a lot more people then just us. I remember the numbers of people still playing a year later to buy the final DLC is a really low percentage, so they tend to average the cost out across all the DLC they release throughout the year. It does make me wonder if BioWare was to start doing Season Passes how would people react, for it seems that there would be a lot of people complaining about that as well even if it meant guaranteed DLC.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 19:58:16 GMT
The thing I find the most disappointing about EA holding the SW franchise as far as games are concerned, is that it means that we have almost no chance to see games similar to legendary SW titles of the past, it's likely all going to be MP and all about "games as a service" (*wink* *wink*). Likely no chance to see another KOTOR, Jedi academy, TFU, etc. Hell, even the one they had in development got killed because it couldn't present the same earning potential of a FIFA game (that's the rumor anyway) among other reasons. The funny thing about "games as a service" is that I'd be happy to buy expansions, you know, old school expansions. But that's apparently too much work. Much easier to slap on P2W MT. And this is so depressing. When it was announced that EA got the exclusive SW rights, I was happy because since Bioware falls under EA, I assumed that EA would allow Bioware another crack at a Star Wars RPG (not including SWTOR). Perhaps not a KOTOR 3, but some action RPG. Just imagine if Edmonton got a crack at a Star Wars action RPG with graphics/gameplay of DAI? But of course that will never happen because EA only wants to focus on MP. I do not know how long this deal is with EA, but hopefully once it is over, Disney decides not to renue and just open up the SW licence for many other publishers/developers to play with like back how it was when it fell under LucasArts.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 25, 2017 20:01:56 GMT
The thing I find the most disappointing about EA holding the SW franchise as far as games are concerned, is that it means that we have almost no chance to see games similar to legendary SW titles of the past, it's likely all going to be MP and all about "games as a service" (*wink* *wink*). Likely no chance to see another KOTOR, Jedi academy, TFU, etc. Hell, even the one they had in development got killed because it couldn't present the same earning potential of a FIFA game (that's the rumor anyway) among other reasons. The funny thing about "games as a service" is that I'd be happy to buy expansions, you know, old school expansions. But that's apparently too much work. Much easier to slap on P2W MT. Putting a lot of development time and money into an expansion that only has a very small market since about a year after launch there are only a small percentage of players still playing the game. Its why I think BioWare's last expansion Awakening was released in the state it was because they ran out of money. So if DLC never existed I think expansions would still be gone by now. This argument keeps being brought up in certain circles and yet many recent games have proved to discredit this fact. Witcher 3 had 2 popular expansions and Horizon as well has the Frozen Wilds expansion. Both were SP games. So this theory that expansions are dead and nobody buys them just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I could be missing something but this isn't a matter of are they profitable cause they are, it is just rather about do you want your profits to be $20 million with expansions? Or do you want your profits to be $100 million with MTs?
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 25, 2017 20:44:57 GMT
Putting a lot of development time and money into an expansion that only has a very small market since about a year after launch there are only a small percentage of players still playing the game. Its why I think BioWare's last expansion Awakening was released in the state it was because they ran out of money. So if DLC never existed I think expansions would still be gone by now. This argument keeps being brought up in certain circles and yet many recent games have proved to discredit this fact. Witcher 3 had 2 popular expansions and Horizon as well has the Frozen Wilds expansion. Both were SP games. So this theory that expansions are dead and nobody buys them just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I could be missing something but this isn't a matter of are they profitable cause they are, it is just rather about do you want your profits to be $20 million with expansions? Or do you want your profits to be $100 million with MTs? I lost my response, so here is an abridged version of my response. If you look at the Steam achievement lists 66% of the people that bought The Witcher 3 made it to the most popular achievement, about 20% of the people that bought the game made it to the easiest to get achievement for each expansion they released. AskAGameDev covered this in one of his posts citing EEDAR data with how small the percentage of people buy DLC. Ask A Game Dev. If you have numbers that argue that I would be interested in looking at them, for I couldn't find anything on the expansion sales for Horizon: Zero Dawn, I didn't even know it had one until it was mentioned here.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 25, 2017 20:53:15 GMT
Putting a lot of development time and money into an expansion that only has a very small market since about a year after launch there are only a small percentage of players still playing the game. Its why I think BioWare's last expansion Awakening was released in the state it was because they ran out of money. So if DLC never existed I think expansions would still be gone by now. This argument keeps being brought up in certain circles and yet many recent games have proved to discredit this fact. Witcher 3 had 2 popular expansions and Horizon as well has the Frozen Wilds expansion. Both were SP games. So this theory that expansions are dead and nobody buys them just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I could be missing something but this isn't a matter of are they profitable cause they are, it is just rather about do you want your profits to be $20 million with expansions? Or do you want your profits to be $100 million with MTs? -(_ANTHEM_)-
Interesting.
CEO Wilson has suggested that future sports titles will no longer be coming out once per year. He envisions a subscription-based live services model.
The link below contains Wilson's thinking on this.
Now the above may work only for the Madden + FIFA sports titles. After all, the mechanics for running and kicking and tackling use the same code every year. The cut scenes, faces, jerseys etc... can change but these are minor compared to developing a whole new game. In other words, staying current in a live service scenario means downloading an update. Also, from EA's perspective, the cost to stay current with the FIFA + Madden leagues, as far as development is concerned, is much less if you just update the game to reflect coach player changes. (🌸=◡=)
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 25, 2017 21:16:24 GMT
This argument keeps being brought up in certain circles and yet many recent games have proved to discredit this fact. Witcher 3 had 2 popular expansions and Horizon as well has the Frozen Wilds expansion. Both were SP games. So this theory that expansions are dead and nobody buys them just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I could be missing something but this isn't a matter of are they profitable cause they are, it is just rather about do you want your profits to be $20 million with expansions? Or do you want your profits to be $100 million with MTs? -(_ANTHEM_)-
Interesting.
CEO Wilson has suggested that future sports titles will no longer be coming out once per year. He envisions a subscription-based live services model.
The link below contains Wilson's thinking on this.
Now the above may work only for the Madden + FIFA sports titles. After all, the mechanics for running and kicking and tackling use the same code every year. The cut scenes, faces, jerseys etc... can change but these are minor compared to developing a whole new game. In other words, staying current in a live service scenario means downloading an update. Also, from EA's perspective, the cost to stay current with the FIFA + Madden leagues, as far as development is concerned, is much less if you just update the game to reflect coach player changes. (🌸=◡=)
Well of course. I'm not into sports games but I heard people complaining how these are basically copy-pastes of ones from year before with some new stuff sprinkled on top. I'm not a game dev but something tells me that maintaining one title for longer and producing content for it is likely a cheaper alternative than producing new game each year, even if it's indeed a copy-paste. So this particular decision looks to be a sensible one, and it also means that people wouldn't have to spend full price for new title each year, but instead invest in all the additional content. Games can change a lot and get a lot of stuff if they're properly supported - we know this from MMOs. I still can't believe how much ESO has changed since '14 and it went from generally considered 'meh' game with botched launch to one of the most popular and praised MMOs around.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 25, 2017 21:29:20 GMT
This argument keeps being brought up in certain circles and yet many recent games have proved to discredit this fact. Witcher 3 had 2 popular expansions and Horizon as well has the Frozen Wilds expansion. Both were SP games. So this theory that expansions are dead and nobody buys them just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I could be missing something but this isn't a matter of are they profitable cause they are, it is just rather about do you want your profits to be $20 million with expansions? Or do you want your profits to be $100 million with MTs? I lost my response, so here is an abridged version of my response. If you look at the Steam achievement lists 66% of the people that bought The Witcher 3 made it to the most popular achievement, about 20% of the people that bought the game made it to the easiest to get achievement for each expansion they released. AskAGameDev covered this in one of his posts citing EEDAR data with how small the percentage of people buy DLC. Ask A Game Dev. If you have numbers that argue that I would be interested in looking at them, for I couldn't find anything on the expansion sales for Horizon: Zero Dawn, I didn't even know it had one until it was mentioned here. It's kinda funny. Gamers have been complaining at DLCs since their inception and then tentatively it morphed into expecting for them to exist, and now we may see the natural end of them... with that said, I don't expect them to end (especially with big companies touting the 'games as service' model) but I do expect for the content or its scale to change somehow, especially in a market where mobile games have already eclipsed console and PC games in terms of revenue gained.
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N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,647 Likes: 12,856
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 25, 2017 23:23:46 GMT
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Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 26, 2017 0:31:53 GMT
In single player games of old, it was possible to finish the game, whether it took 40, 80 or 120 hours... Mass Effect 3 multiplayer changed that for me (my first multiplayer) and I spent over 1,000 hours in that mode. But I never maxed my manifest (wasn't that far off) and I understand that maxing would take most people 800-1,600 hours or so, depending on match difficulty choice. So Battlefront II would take 4,000 hours to max? That model is broken to me. I don't like PvP because I have the nagging feeling that some person with better weapons is just going to own me for their amusement. At least with PvE the challenge is consistent and relies upon my skill, not some random aspect of the other player's skill or loadout. I'm open to BioWare doing something clever, but I'm not aware enough of what that clever thing could be. A good PvP can take some care to balance the skill/equipment/experience of players with e.g. tiered matchmaking. And with a potential playerbase like SW there is little worry such matchmaking would lead to empty queues. Alas, it also prevent to shove the OP gear in the face of the lowly peasant who does not want to pay into the loot box. EA was way to confident the IP alone would hook players rather than the gameplay. A shame, for MP is an adequate tool to make players play in perpetuity. Good gameplay, a means to socialise and players will be hooked. Then they will probably look at the store, too. Now, selling is another form of art and EA does it rather poorly.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 26, 2017 1:22:17 GMT
That is pretty much how I feel about this whole issue as well. Right now even though politicians are making public comments, I don't see it going anywhere for it will get tied up in politics and then if they actually get their act together I can see it being challenged in the courts. The real test for this whole debacle is going to be Call of Duty: WW2 since I think that is the next big release since Shadow of War and Battlefront 2, with a minor issue surrounding Destiny 2.
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arreyanne
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by arreyanne on Nov 26, 2017 1:26:50 GMT
SO BioWare/EA what kind of stuff is going to be in Anthems Loot Boxes? Inquiring minds want to know. Progression to be tied to loot crates? how wonderful!
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,647 Likes: 12,856
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∯ Interjector in Chief
279
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1
Sept 28, 2024 16:14:04 GMT
12,856
Heimdall
5,647
August 2016
heimdall
Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 26, 2017 2:22:20 GMT
That is pretty much how I feel about this whole issue as well. Right now even though politicians are making public comments, I don't see it going anywhere for it will get tied up in politics and then if they actually get their act together I can see it being challenged in the courts. The real test for this whole debacle is going to be Call of Duty: WW2 since I think that is the next big release since Shadow of War and Battlefront 2, with a minor issue surrounding Destiny 2. Still, I do hope this backlash alone is enough to discourage similarly aggressive practices. Especially at EA, I expect they’ll be less cavalier about introducing such systems going forward.
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majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 26, 2017 2:31:18 GMT
SO BioWare/EA what kind of stuff is going to be in Anthems Loot Boxes? Inquiring minds want to know. Progression to be tied to loot crates? how wonderful! I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan before SWBF2 happened.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,993 Likes: 9,064
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Sept 29, 2024 2:32:36 GMT
9,064
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,993
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
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sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 26, 2017 4:13:20 GMT
That is pretty much how I feel about this whole issue as well. Right now even though politicians are making public comments, I don't see it going anywhere for it will get tied up in politics and then if they actually get their act together I can see it being challenged in the courts. The real test for this whole debacle is going to be Call of Duty: WW2 since I think that is the next big release since Shadow of War and Battlefront 2, with a minor issue surrounding Destiny 2. Still, I do hope this backlash alone is enough to discourage similarly aggressive practices. Especially at EA, I expect they’ll be less cavalier about introducing such systems going forward. I agree. Now the question is since all the focus has been on EA, have the other publishers learned from it as well or are they going to need a massive public backlash too. Now if another publisher does something equally obnoxious and they don't get this level of coverage I know this wasn't about these lootboxes, but it was more about EA.
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