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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 26, 2017 19:39:58 GMT
We sure all can use some imrovement in reading department: EA had a somewhat elegant solution for this staffing problem. During the first year of preproduction, as the Ragtag team wrote, designed, and prototyped, Hennig would work with newly hired producer Jade Raymond to build a studio in Montreal, where game development costs significantly less thanks to a lower cost of living and tax benefits provided by the Quebec government. This studio, called EA Motive, would add another 70 people to Ragtag, helping out both with the single-player campaign and a multiplayer “second mode” that EA had demanded. (At that point, per four sources, the second mode was going to be a space combat game that was sort of like a scaled-down version of Yuma.)True, it does not state "everyone were moved". But it also does not state something like "but it was never done and all remained in the most expensive sity ever". ...Are you just willfully ignoring the article now? EA Motive never helped Visceral because EA moved them on to create the single-player campaign for Battlefront II after demand for it in the aftermath of Battlefront 2015. This solution never got put into practice, ironically because EA was responding properly to consumer demand for once..And as the article states, the story wasn’t the problem. Everything else was the problem since she insisted every gameplay design decision go through her. The article even states that the narrative design employees were quite happy with her, it’s the rest that were less than thrilled. EA hired a talented designer to head a project with a talented studio. People are hired to work with new teams all the time, the expectation is that they build a relationship of trust and get things done, not turn into a control freak that refuses to delegate. I don’t really see how you can claim only EA is to blame despite them having every reason to trust Hennig’s talent given her previous track record. So explain this quote then: "In its current form, it was shaping up to be a story-based, linear adventure game. Throughout the development process, we have been testing the game concept with players, listening to the feedback about what and how they want to play, and closely tracking fundamental shifts in the marketplace. It has become clear that to deliver an experience that players will want to come back to and enjoy for a long time to come, we needed to pivot the design."
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 26, 2017 19:55:31 GMT
So explain this quote then: "In its current form, it was shaping up to be a story-based, linear adventure game. Throughout the development process, we have been testing the game concept with players, listening to the feedback about what and how they want to play, and closely tracking fundamental shifts in the marketplace. It has become clear that to deliver an experience that players will want to come back to and enjoy for a long time to come, we needed to pivot the design." Development was botched, so they justified shifting the project to something else with rhetoric that made it sound like a positive shift to what players supposedly want rather than the salvage operation it truly was. I’m not saying EA’s mismanagement is blameless in that but no publisher actually tries to have studios fail, that would be a complete waste of time and money.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 26, 2017 19:59:16 GMT
This will mark the 2nd game in a row for Bioware that had to market their game through a shaky environment. 1) MEA had to deal with fans still bitter about leaving the Milky Way and ME3's ending. Then came the animations just before release. 2) Anthem will have to deal with all the falling debris from the SWBF2 debacle and gamers and the media is already eyeing Anthem. Anthem can burn for all I care. There is nothing about leaving the Milky Way that would trigger bitterness per se, if the story were good. The ME3 endings were controversial but 5 years ago. Granted, the MEA animation memes were problematic ahead of patching. As far Anthem, the game's a year from launch. And we know you want it all to fail, so I think you're overstating the inevitability of the issues. If Anthem's reveals are solid and interesting, there's more than enough time to launch a successful game that people like.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 26, 2017 22:28:00 GMT
This will mark the 2nd game in a row for Bioware that had to market their game through a shaky environment. 1) MEA had to deal with fans still bitter about leaving the Milky Way and ME3's ending. Then came the animations just before release. 2) Anthem will have to deal with all the falling debris from the SWBF2 debacle and gamers and the media is already eyeing Anthem. Anthem can burn for all I care. There is nothing about leaving the Milky Way that would trigger bitterness per se, if the story were good. The ME3 endings were controversial but 5 years ago. Granted, the MEA animation memes were problematic ahead of patching. As far Anthem, the game's a year from launch. And we know you want it all to fail, so I think you're overstating the inevitability of the issues. If Anthem's reveals are solid and interesting, there's more than enough time to launch a successful game that people like. I am not sure about the Milky Way, there were plenty of upset people and posts after it was announced Mass Effect was leaving the Milky Way and a lot of comments about 99% unexplored and how choices didn't matter long before anything else was known about the game. So I am not sure if people thought the story was good would have made a difference.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 26, 2017 23:33:44 GMT
This will mark the 2nd game in a row for Bioware that had to market their game through a shaky environment. 1) MEA had to deal with fans still bitter about leaving the Milky Way and ME3's ending. Then came the animations just before release. 2) Anthem will have to deal with all the falling debris from the SWBF2 debacle and gamers and the media is already eyeing Anthem. Anthem can burn for all I care. There is nothing about leaving the Milky Way that would trigger bitterness per se, if the story were good. The ME3 endings were controversial but 5 years ago. Granted, the MEA animation memes were problematic ahead of patching. As far Anthem, the game's a year from launch. And we know you want it all to fail, so I think you're overstating the inevitability of the issues. If Anthem's reveals are solid and interesting, there's more than enough time to launch a successful game that people like. Actually I am just going off of what some people here have suggested, that there was this planned cabal of gamers who were still bitter about Bioware moving to Andromeda along with the sour taste in people's mouths about the ME3 ending and it was this "mob" of gamers that took to the internet to use MEA as their punching bag. These aren't my words, but the suggestions of many here. But thank you for clarifying that it was the game itself (MEA) that was the cause of it's failure, not because of a mob mentality that had it in their heads from day 1 to attack MEA due to other circumstances.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 26, 2017 23:39:22 GMT
There is nothing about leaving the Milky Way that would trigger bitterness per se, if the story were good. The ME3 endings were controversial but 5 years ago. Granted, the MEA animation memes were problematic ahead of patching. As far Anthem, the game's a year from launch. And we know you want it all to fail, so I think you're overstating the inevitability of the issues. If Anthem's reveals are solid and interesting, there's more than enough time to launch a successful game that people like. Actually I am just going off of what some people here have suggested, that there was this planned cabal of gamers who were still bitter about Bioware moving to Andromeda along with the sour taste in people's mouths about the ME3 ending and it was this "mob" of gamers that took to the internet to use MEA as their punching bag. These aren't my words, but the suggestions of many here. Who has actually suggested that?
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 27, 2017 0:10:17 GMT
Actually I am just going off of what some people here have suggested, that there was this planned cabal of gamers who were still bitter about Bioware moving to Andromeda along with the sour taste in people's mouths about the ME3 ending and it was this "mob" of gamers that took to the internet to use MEA as their punching bag. These aren't my words, but the suggestions of many here. But thank you for clarifying that it was the game itself (MEA) that was the cause of it's failure, not because of a mob mentality that had it in their heads from day 1 to attack MEA due to other circumstances. There are a range of opinions on BioWare and MEA, but I don't think MEA was unanticipated. That it was not BioWare's best work was disappointing (even though I personally enjoyed the game with 4 playthroughs). To say it was a failure is fair. Though I still think it's a good game even if it fell short of expectations. There were certainly some who were hoping the game would fail and some who revelled in the launch woes. Those things could have been shrugged off if the game was stronger and was less buggy from the start. There are some who have already decided they want Anthem to fail (as you know) just as there are many who are interested in it, pending more information. I feel we're going round in circles here, but opinions are not so black and white on these things and there's still time.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 27, 2017 1:21:28 GMT
Actually I am just going off of what some people here have suggested, that there was this planned cabal of gamers who were still bitter about Bioware moving to Andromeda along with the sour taste in people's mouths about the ME3 ending and it was this "mob" of gamers that took to the internet to use MEA as their punching bag. These aren't my words, but the suggestions of many here. Who has actually suggested that? A few people here and they know who they are . Back at the MEA forums, there was this debate on the downfall of MEA and what really contributed to it. People like myself suggested that the game itself (to include animations), but mainly the game, which the review scores reflected (most of the low reviews all cited many other problems outside of glitches/animations). However, in an attempt to shield Bioware/MEA, some here suggested that in fact, the game was fine.....it was just a mob of internet dudebros who stormed to take down MEA due to the following: 1) Anti-SJW resentment towards Bioware 2) Still bitter over the ME3 ending 3) Upset that MEA is in Andromeda and not in the Milky Way Many of those people, such as Malgus no longer frequent this place as often but they did make it seem like the main reason why MEA got low review scores and why it bad a bad reception was that people were just itching to see Bioware in a vulnerable position and it was this mob of gamers who from day 1 before MEA was released, had already had their minds made up about the game and their sole purpose was to just bash MEA/Bioware. Of course I shot this theory down by claiming it as some tinfoil conspiracy there, but yes....there were (and still remains) people here who believe such nonsense.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 27, 2017 1:29:41 GMT
Who has actually suggested that? A few people here and they know who they are . Back at the MEA forums, there was this debate on the downfall of MEA and what really contributed to it. People like myself suggested that the game itself (to include animations), but mainly the game, which the review scores reflected (most of the low reviews all cited many other problems outside of glitches/animations). However, in an attempt to shield Bioware/MEA, some here suggested that in fact, the game was fine.....it was just a mob of internet dudebros who stormed to take down MEA due to the following: 1) Anti-SJW resentment towards Bioware 2) Still bitter over the ME3 ending 3) Upset that MEA is in Andromeda and not in the Milky Way Many of those people, such as Malgus no longer frequent this place as often but they did make it seem like the main reason why MEA got low review scores and why it bad a bad reception was that people were just itching to see Bioware in a vulnerable position and it was this mob of gamers who from day 1 before MEA was released, had already had their minds made up about the game and their sole purpose was to just bash MEA/Bioware. Of course I shot this theory down by claiming it as some tinfoil conspiracy there, but yes....there were (and still remains) people here who believe such nonsense. I meant here in this thread, otherwise I’m not sure why you’d bring it up. And I think there’s some room for both explanations. I was initially quite negative on MEA and criticized its open world design and weak writing, though it has grown on me somewhat. I saw a fair number of people who seemed dead set on hating the game from the moment the Andromeda setting was announced, so those people were out there. Though I ultimately think the game’s own flaws are at the core of its failure.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 27, 2017 3:44:52 GMT
A few people here and they know who they are . Back at the MEA forums, there was this debate on the downfall of MEA and what really contributed to it. People like myself suggested that the game itself (to include animations), but mainly the game, which the review scores reflected (most of the low reviews all cited many other problems outside of glitches/animations). However, in an attempt to shield Bioware/MEA, some here suggested that in fact, the game was fine.....it was just a mob of internet dudebros who stormed to take down MEA due to the following: 1) Anti-SJW resentment towards Bioware 2) Still bitter over the ME3 ending 3) Upset that MEA is in Andromeda and not in the Milky Way Many of those people, such as Malgus no longer frequent this place as often but they did make it seem like the main reason why MEA got low review scores and why it bad a bad reception was that people were just itching to see Bioware in a vulnerable position and it was this mob of gamers who from day 1 before MEA was released, had already had their minds made up about the game and their sole purpose was to just bash MEA/Bioware. Of course I shot this theory down by claiming it as some tinfoil conspiracy there, but yes....there were (and still remains) people here who believe such nonsense. I meant here in this thread, otherwise I’m not sure why you’d bring it up. And I think there’s some room for both explanations. I was initially quite negative on MEA and criticized its open world design and weak writing, though it has grown on me somewhat. I saw a fair number of people who seemed dead set on hating the game from the moment the Andromeda setting was announced, so those people were out there. Though I ultimately think the game’s own flaws are at the core of its failure. I agree, I think there are people out there that hated Andromeda from the moment it was released and attached themselves to anything to show how bad it was, but I don't think those people wanted the game to fail. If anything what bothered me more was places like Polygon that came across as latching themselves onto Andromeda and wrote a lot of pieces about it in one week critizing every aspect about it, but at the same time will look beyond the bugs and problems of a Bethesda game and then will write "opinion pieces" on how Mass Effect: Andromeda was an early access game, but then will write other "opinion pieces" about how you should go back and give other games that have problems a second chance. Now I know these opinion pieces are from different writers and are opinions, but when it seems to be one writer that always writes the most negative pieces and focuses solely on EA games I rather another person write those pieces for he is the one I think has the most powerful voice and frankly if he doesn't want to treat all games equally I don't trust anything he ever says opinion piece or not. People on forums or YouTube I don't think have enough weight to their opinion for what they say to have any sway, but a place like Polygon does.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 27, 2017 3:58:35 GMT
I meant here in this thread, otherwise I’m not sure why you’d bring it up. And I think there’s some room for both explanations. I was initially quite negative on MEA and criticized its open world design and weak writing, though it has grown on me somewhat. I saw a fair number of people who seemed dead set on hating the game from the moment the Andromeda setting was announced, so those people were out there. Though I ultimately think the game’s own flaws are at the core of its failure. I agree, I think there are people out there that hated Andromeda from the moment it was released and attached themselves to anything to show how bad it was, but I don't think those people wanted the game to fail. If anything what bothered me more was places like Polygon that came across as latching themselves onto Andromeda and wrote a lot of pieces about it in one week critizing every aspect about it, but at the same time will look beyond the bugs and problems of a Bethesda game and then will write "opinion pieces" on how Mass Effect: Andromeda was an early access game, but then will write other "opinion pieces" about how you should go back and give other games that have problems a second chance. Now I know these opinion pieces are from different writers and are opinions, but when it seems to be one writer that always writes the most negative pieces and focuses solely on EA games I rather another person write those pieces for he is the one I think has the most powerful voice and frankly if he doesn't want to treat all games equally I don't trust anything he ever says opinion piece or not. People on forums or YouTube I don't think have enough weight to their opinion for what they say to have any sway, but a place like Polygon does. Popular gaming news sites usually just jump on the bandwagon of whatever is most popular at the time for the most clicks, it is why they write so many articles on Bethesda games because they know anything about Elder Scrolls will generate views and why Bethesda games always get favorable reviews.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 27, 2017 6:21:43 GMT
1) Anti-SJW resentment towards Bioware 2) Still bitter over the ME3 ending 3) Upset that MEA is in Andromeda and not in the Milky Way At the risk of going round this again, yes, I think MEA's critical response was mostly down to the game itself. - But it doesn't take much effort on youtube (and sometimes here) to identify that BioWare's approach to diversity (laudable, but not successful in every case) provokes some people.
- ME3's ending and the Andromeda move (mostly necessitated by the ME3 ending) left some bad feeling with some but I don't think we're talking huge proportions.
- Gandalf the Fabulous is quite right about some level of media bandwagon jumping, because it's newsworthy and some were enjoying kicking BioWare. I still think Gamespot's 6/10 when they had given No Man's Sky a 7/10 was mean.
So to bring this back to EA/BioWare and Anthem, so that we don't re-run the MEA discussion yet again in this thread, there's certainly a section of people who start negatively disposed to Anthem for a variety of reasons, but I don't see that as insurmountable if Anthem is a good game with a non-predatory economy, marketed and presented well.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 27, 2017 7:14:45 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Did an EA rep bribe a REDDIT mod(s) ?
Have not come across this story in this thread. Apologies in advanced if already mentioned.
A communication exchange between EA community manager Matt Everret and REDDIT mods took place "... in which Everett offered alpha access to mods as a “thank you.” ..." for removing certain posts.The article in the link below explains. Most seems to be hearsay. Still ... given EA's reaction to deserved negative criticism of SWBF2, such activity would not surprise me.
Anthem, I hope, will bypass all this drama. Bio could use some ideas from Playerunknown's Battlegrounds with their solo mission(s)... maybe in co-op mode too, as a change of pace to make the game more appealing. Certainly, this PUBG kicks ass. There is a formula in there somewhere. (🌸=◡=)
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 27, 2017 7:22:10 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Did an EA rep bribe a REDDIT mod(s) ?
Have not come across this story in this thread. Apologies in advanced if already mentioned.
A communication exchange between EA community manager Matt Everret and REDDIT mods took place "... in which Everett offered alpha access to mods as a “thank you.” ..." for removing certain posts.The article in the link below explains. Most seems to be hearsay. Still ... given EA's reaction to deserved negative criticism of SWBF2, such activity would not surprise me.
Anthem, I hope, will bypass all this drama. Bio could use some ideas from Playerunknown's Battlegrounds with their solo mission(s)... maybe in co-op mode too, as a change of pace to make the game more appealing. Certainly, this PUBG kicks ass. There is a formula in there somewhere. (🌸=◡=)
Give me a break, this just shows what was mentioned before "journalism" gaming sites that are looking for clicks and I won't support that website by following your link. You are saying it sounds like hearsay and there is a reason why hearsay cannot be relied upon since it is often unreliable.
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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 27, 2017 13:06:43 GMT
Before this LB debacle with SWBF2, I'm 99% sure the progression system for Anthem was going to be something similar to SW. I don't need a crystal ball to know that. I only need to read/listen in interviews done with EA CFO Blake Jorgenson. This last interview was very telling for me on what to expect on all their games going forward Click. Take this quote in particular: Let me translate that for you; If we can get people to stay in the game longer,(slow progression down), we can create an opportunity to allow players to pay their way past the slow progression. I'm still convinced Anthem will have MTX and LB, but unsure now of progression being tied to that. It may not be, but don't be surprised if it is. They want it in all their games and they are hell bent on only creating games that fit with that type of montinization. Linear SP games don't fit that mold so I wouldn't expect to see any or at least any that doesn't have a MP portion that the SP is built around.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 27, 2017 13:44:17 GMT
I'm taking ME3's pack model as the starting point, because BioWare know it works... You earn money in-game (Freelancers get paid) and you can also pay real money.
The grind-level is the trick, though isn't it?
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 27, 2017 14:35:16 GMT
I doubt EA will mimic the BF2 model for Anthem after this, though it could still happen.
More likely I think we’ll either see a cash shop with items that can be acquired otherwise, or we’ll see a mostly cosmetic lootbox system with minor stat items like Destiny.
Or at least those are things I would find tolerable.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 27, 2017 15:57:10 GMT
1) Anti-SJW resentment towards Bioware 2) Still bitter over the ME3 ending 3) Upset that MEA is in Andromeda and not in the Milky Way At the risk of going round this again, yes, I think MEA's critical response was mostly down to the game itself. - But it doesn't take much effort on youtube (and sometimes here) to identify that BioWare's approach to diversity (laudable, but not successful in every case) provokes some people.
- ME3's ending and the Andromeda move (mostly necessitated by the ME3 ending) left some bad feeling with some but I don't think we're talking huge proportions.
- Gandalf the Fabulous is quite right about some level of media bandwagon jumping, because it's newsworthy and some were enjoying kicking BioWare. I still think Gamespot's 6/10 when they had given No Man's Sky a 7/10 was mean.
So to bring this back to EA/BioWare and Anthem, so that we don't re-run the MEA discussion yet again in this thread, there's certainly a section of people who start negatively disposed to Anthem for a variety of reasons, but I don't see that as insurmountable if Anthem is a good game with a non-predatory economy, marketed and presented well. Sure, ultimately if the game is enjoyable and healthy it will vault through the hump of people who want it to stumble or just general suspicion attached to big releases by major publishers, but it's kinda a given that the hump will exist, as evidenced by sentiments of some of those even participating in threads like this, nevermind the hordes of trolls active on places like youtube. If some people want things to fail, they will see failure regardless of success. We saw that with DAI, and I don't expect it to change with Anthem, if it's indeed well-liked.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 27, 2017 16:07:54 GMT
I doubt EA will mimic the BF2 model for Anthem after this, though it could still happen. More likely I think we’ll either see a cash shop with items that can be acquired otherwise, or we’ll see a mostly cosmetic lootbox system with minor stat items like Destiny. Or at least those are things I would find tolerable. The return to cosmetic or minor stuff is probably the first thing we'd see. I think people may also accept things like leveling boosters or stuff that would help players save time in SP games that are entirely separate from achievements or anything that has to do with competing with other people (provided that we aren't intentionally slowed down to encourage us to buy anything). Pay 2 Win will always be an issue in any PVP/multiplayer environment or anything that has leaderboards, and understandably so.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 16:08:32 GMT
I am all in favour of cash shop for cosmetics, but with the powersuits it’s of limited appeal, because fashions are not going to be limitless like in “everything goes” Games. I guess, collectibles like pets and mounts can provide more sellable cosmetics, as well as the guild and individual strongholds possessions... it’s all potentially possible, and does not impact those who can’t care less.
As for grinds, as irritating as minigrinds are, I would prefer the staged grinds with the free starter set each time the new leg starts to an endlessly extending ladder, when if you dropped a year ago, and came back, your gear is 100 to 200 % behind with no hope of ever catching up.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 27, 2017 18:56:41 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
LucasFilm, in an interview with VentureBeat, was well aware of the loot box and progression mechanics of SWBF2. Also, they seem aware that in "live-services" business models, these things are inevitable and "tweaking" the mechanics is par for the course.
LucasFilms with their "we support EA with their decision to suspend MTs" was just a smoke screen. Frankly, I'm of the opinion LF will support anything as long as it does not damage their SW IP.
It's further proof that EA's live-services model is here to stay.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 27, 2017 20:16:03 GMT
I am all in favour of cash shop for cosmetics, but with the powersuits it’s of limited appeal, because fashions are not going to be limitless like in “everything goes” Games. I guess, collectibles like pets and mounts can provide more sellable cosmetics, as well as the guild and individual strongholds possessions... it’s all potentially possible, and does not impact those who can’t care less. Well, they could sell cosmetic outfits for your character for when you’re in the hub (not that you’d see it much give the FP perspective)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 20:22:49 GMT
I am all in favour of cash shop for cosmetics, but with the powersuits it’s of limited appeal, because fashions are not going to be limitless like in “everything goes” Games. I guess, collectibles like pets and mounts can provide more sellable cosmetics, as well as the guild and individual strongholds possessions... it’s all potentially possible, and does not impact those who can’t care less. Well, they could sell cosmetic outfits for your character for when you’re in the hub (not that you’d see it much give the FP perspective) That’s my assumption, though just to get other people to see your character wearing the outfit in a hub might be a draw? I am overall confused with why we need FP in the hub, and would just prefer 3rd throughout as an option, which is easier to monetize too through the outfits....
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 27, 2017 20:35:33 GMT
Well, they could sell cosmetic outfits for your character for when you’re in the hub (not that you’d see it much give the FP perspective) That’s my assumption, though just to get other people to see your character wearing the outfit in a hub might be a draw? I am overall confused with why we need FP in the hub, and would just prefer 3rd throughout as an option, which is easier to monetize too through the outfits.... I still think that’s about saving animation costs. I’m guessing we’ll still be able to look at our character in menus and some cutscenes. It could also be about how they design the space. In third person camera, the spaces need to be large so the camera can be maneuvered. First person allows them to create smaller more intimate spaces, which might be something they’re going for in the feel of the fort, being a place where a large amount of people are squeezed into a small safe space surrounded by inhospitable land. Just my speculation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 21:00:26 GMT
That’s my assumption, though just to get other people to see your character wearing the outfit in a hub might be a draw? I am overall confused with why we need FP in the hub, and would just prefer 3rd throughout as an option, which is easier to monetize too through the outfits.... I still think that’s about saving animation costs. I’m guessing we’ll still be able to look at our character in menus and some cutscenes. It could also be about how they design the space. In third person camera, the spaces need to be large so the camera can be maneuvered. First person allows them to create smaller more intimate spaces, which might be something they’re going for in the feel of the fort, being a place where a large amount of people are squeezed into a small safe space surrounded by inhospitable land. Just my speculation. Fair enough, though I can't help but starting to feel that the pursuit of animations is driving out customization & player creativity from the games.
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