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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 29, 2017 16:08:52 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Of course, what he said is a load of bullshit. Counter-examples: Most anticipated new game ( Game Awards nominee): The Last Of Us 2 (although, TLoU2 has a MP mode, as did TLoU, it's biggest claim to fame is the linear SP mode) Uncharted 4 (the quintessential linear SP game, Amy Hennig's claim to fame) : Sold 8.7 million units in it's year of release.
Grand Theft Auto V: earned $1 billion in sales in it's first 3 days of release (it has an MP mode, but is best known for it's SP mode, though debatable whether it's the linear story line or the non-linear sandboxing that makes it so popular)
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 29, 2017 16:34:15 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Of course, what he said is a load of bullshit. Counter-examples: Most anticipated new game ( Game Awards nominee): The Last Of Us 2 (although, TLoU2 has a MP mode, as did TLoU, it's biggest claim to fame is the linear SP mode) Uncharted 4 (the quintessential linear SP game, Amy Hennig's claim to fame) : Sold 8.7 million units in it's year of release.
Grand Theft Auto V: earned $1 billion in sales in it's first 3 days of release (it has an MP mode, but is best known for it's SP mode, though debatable whether it's the linear story line or the non-linear sandboxing that makes it so popular) He claims that players don’t play those games “as much” as they did five years ago. That could be true, though I wonder if it’s because there are just fewer being made these days.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 29, 2017 16:50:01 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Of course, what he said is a load of bullshit. Counter-examples: Most anticipated new game ( Game Awards nominee): The Last Of Us 2 (although, TLoU2 has a MP mode, as did TLoU, it's biggest claim to fame is the linear SP mode) Uncharted 4 (the quintessential linear SP game, Amy Hennig's claim to fame) : Sold 8.7 million units in it's year of release.
Grand Theft Auto V: earned $1 billion in sales in it's first 3 days of release (it has an MP mode, but is best known for it's SP mode, though debatable whether it's the linear story line or the non-linear sandboxing that makes it so popular) Also note that GTAV didnt launch with MP. It was only a few weeks after launch when GTA Online opened up.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 29, 2017 16:54:54 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Of course, what he said is a load of bullshit. Counter-examples: Most anticipated new game ( Game Awards nominee): The Last Of Us 2 (although, TLoU2 has a MP mode, as did TLoU, it's biggest claim to fame is the linear SP mode) Uncharted 4 (the quintessential linear SP game, Amy Hennig's claim to fame) : Sold 8.7 million units in it's year of release.
Grand Theft Auto V: earned $1 billion in sales in it's first 3 days of release (it has an MP mode, but is best known for it's SP mode, though debatable whether it's the linear story line or the non-linear sandboxing that makes it so popular) He claims that players don’t play those games “as much” as they did five years ago. That could be true, though I wonder if it’s because there are just fewer being made these days. Thats an argument I brought up here long ago. Is there really a demand for MP from the players? Or is MP being pushed onto the players? You like meatlovers pizza. Thats what you buy and enjoy. However since it is hard to find meatlovers pizza....and just plain cheese pizza is more available....and you still need your pizza fix.....you begin to buy cheese pizza. Now you buy more cheese pizza than meatlovers. So, does that mean you do not like meatlovers as much? In this case, meatlovers is linear SP games and cheese is MP focused games.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 29, 2017 16:56:33 GMT
Pretty sure they will just use a megaphone and cry fowl if they think they will get more public attention. Any real change will require developers and publishers to be on board. Getting publishers on board (EA, Activision) will likely mean that said voluntary regulatory body will only become a rubber stamp for them. (I think that there's even already a similar body, not sure)
Even in itself the idea of a voluntary regulatory body on things like MT and various other practices is questionable to begin with. What worked for rating wouldn't necessarily work for MT. But we'll see.
There is already the ESRB (amd equivalents in other countries) for self-regulation. All they need to do is rate their stuff M and noones gonna bother anymore about the gambling part.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 29, 2017 17:29:28 GMT
Lol, that's not what they said. They said that those games are not as liked as they were five/ten years ago.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 29, 2017 17:37:07 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Visceral was still not closed because their SW game was linear, but because things were not gluing together, beyond the trends on the market. And I'm not worried about DA, because DA ain't really a linear game the like of Last Of Us or Uncharted. It's an open-world game with many branching, non-linear choices and it's been designed from the start with replayability in mind - and, from my perspective at least, that replayability makes it an attractive model in an era of 'games-as-service' with longer shelf life. The issue with stricte single-player games like Last Of Us is that they can only be really played once. And with popularity of streaming and let's plays people can skip on that entirely, if they want to. A game like DA, with things like customizable character or multiple paths is more immune to such trends.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 29, 2017 19:24:38 GMT
And the battle rages on...EA is going to be fine in the long run here, but the question now is how will they implement...im guessing similar to Overwatch is on the horizon, for good or for ill. After all, it's still a viable business model if the recent trends are to be believed.
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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 29, 2017 20:14:14 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Visceral was still not closed because their SW game was linear, but because things were not gluing together, beyond the trends on the market. And I'm not worried about DA, because DA ain't really a linear game the like of Last Of Us or Uncharted. It's an open-world game with many branching, non-linear choices and it's been designed from the start with replayability in mind - and, from my perspective at least, that replayability makes it an attractive model in an era of 'games-as-service' with longer shelf life. The issue with stricte single-player games like Last Of Us is that they can only be really played once. And with popularity of streaming and let's plays people can skip on that entirely, if they want to. A game like DA, with things like customizable character or multiple paths is more immune to such trends. SP games can only be played once? I have at least 8 PT of the ME trilogy, about 5 with the first two DA games and multiple of the Witcher series, and over 2000 hrs into Skyrim. Depends on the game, but many SP games can be played more than once. DAI was open world and had Zero replay value for me. I had to force myself to play it through just one time. It all comes down to MTX and the type of games that support it. Linear SP games or even open world SP games do not support that type of model. MP games do. That is all it comes down to.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 29, 2017 20:31:06 GMT
Visceral was still not closed because their SW game was linear, but because things were not gluing together, beyond the trends on the market. And I'm not worried about DA, because DA ain't really a linear game the like of Last Of Us or Uncharted. It's an open-world game with many branching, non-linear choices and it's been designed from the start with replayability in mind - and, from my perspective at least, that replayability makes it an attractive model in an era of 'games-as-service' with longer shelf life. The issue with stricte single-player games like Last Of Us is that they can only be really played once. And with popularity of streaming and let's plays people can skip on that entirely, if they want to. A game like DA, with things like customizable character or multiple paths is more immune to such trends. SP games can only be played once? I have at least 8 PT of the ME trilogy, about 5 with the first two DA games and multiple of the Witcher series, and over 2000 hrs into Skyrim. Depends on the game, but many SP games can be played more than once. DAI was open world and had Zero replay value for me. I had to force myself to play it through just one time. It all comes down to MTX and the type of games that support it. Linear SP games or even open world SP games do not support that type of model. MP games do. That is all it comes down to. Um... can you read my comment a bit more carefully instead of wasting time on a response that pretty obviously shows that you didn't really read what you were replying to?
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 29, 2017 20:49:15 GMT
He claims that players don’t play those games “as much” as they did five years ago. That could be true, though I wonder if it’s because there are just fewer being made these days. Thats an argument I brought up here long ago. Is there really a demand for MP from the players? Or is MP being pushed onto the players? You like meatlovers pizza. Thats what you buy and enjoy. However since it is hard to find meatlovers pizza....and just plain cheese pizza is more available....and you still need your pizza fix.....you begin to buy cheese pizza. Now you buy more cheese pizza than meatlovers. So, does that mean you do not like meatlovers as much? In this case, meatlovers is linear SP games and cheese is MP focused games. I think that would depend on the person. I haven't been buying nearly as many games over the last decade or so because the games don't interest me, I am not going to go buying a game that doesn't have my interest. That is what happened with the first Battlefront game from EA, I didn't buy it after I heard there really wasn't a singleplayer campaign that was part of it. If anything I probably put more time into my SNES Classic since September then I have with other games this year combined because those are the games I want to play.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 29, 2017 22:53:06 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm... Visceral’s Star Wars Game Was Cancelled Because It Was Too Linear Admits EA. The link is below.
EA tried to squirm their way out . Why, even Patrick Söderlund claiming it was purely a “creative decision.”. However, Blake Jorgensen, at the Credit Suisse 21st Annual Technology conference , must have read from a different page. It was an economic decision, he said. "Gamers' tastes have changed", he said.
Frankly, I can't believe anything they sat at this point. But, what I do believe is their greed = MTs = games designed to encourage players to pay to bypass the grind, get cosmetic items or ( tie the progression system to loot boxes = p2w ).
Perhaps the easiest thing to do for regulators is, as an up poster mentioned, to prohibit the sale of games with MTs to minors. I would add that forcing the game to display your chances of getting a valuable via MT as a must. 🌸
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 30, 2017 1:34:12 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Visceral was still not closed because their SW game was linear, but because things were not gluing together, beyond the trends on the market. And I'm not worried about DA, because DA ain't really a linear game the like of Last Of Us or Uncharted. It's an open-world game with many branching, non-linear choices and it's been designed from the start with replayability in mind - and, from my perspective at least, that replayability makes it an attractive model in an era of 'games-as-service' with longer shelf life. The issue with stricte single-player games like Last Of Us is that they can only be really played once. And with popularity of streaming and let's plays people can skip on that entirely, if they want to. A game like DA, with things like customizable character or multiple paths is more immune to such trends. I don’t disagree, I just worry that in Jorgensen’s mind, “linear” is equivalent to SP. And note that none of the counter examples I mentioned is 5+ years old. So he’s talkin out his ass.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 30, 2017 1:54:18 GMT
Visceral was still not closed because their SW game was linear, but because things were not gluing together, beyond the trends on the market. And I'm not worried about DA, because DA ain't really a linear game the like of Last Of Us or Uncharted. It's an open-world game with many branching, non-linear choices and it's been designed from the start with replayability in mind - and, from my perspective at least, that replayability makes it an attractive model in an era of 'games-as-service' with longer shelf life. The issue with stricte single-player games like Last Of Us is that they can only be really played once. And with popularity of streaming and let's plays people can skip on that entirely, if they want to. A game like DA, with things like customizable character or multiple paths is more immune to such trends. I don’t disagree, I just worry that in Jorgensen’s mind, “linear” is equivalent to SP. And note that none of the counter examples I mentioned is 5+ years old. So he’s talkin out his ass. Well yeah, but two of the titles you mentioned are very linear, or fairly short SP games and you yourself said that GTA's popularity perhaps may be attributed to its non-linear sandboxing. In many regards GTA is more similar to games like DA or Witcher than it is to LoU or Uncharted. Story-wise it's also 2 or 3 times longer than those two. IMO? SP games the likes of Last of Us are going nowhere, but there will be less of them and ultimately they may be pushed to indie territory, like classic RPGs. Games like DA or GTA or Witcher? Or Nier? I think there's definitely place for them in new AAA gaming landscape.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 30, 2017 3:00:15 GMT
We have a ruling...
I more or less agree with most of this ruling too. Most games do not fit the full criteria.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 30, 2017 5:38:00 GMT
I don’t disagree, I just worry that in Jorgensen’s mind, “linear” is equivalent to SP. And note that none of the counter examples I mentioned is 5+ years old. So he’s talkin out his ass. Well yeah, but two of the titles you mentioned are very linear, or fairly short SP games and you yourself said that GTA's popularity perhaps may be attributed to its non-linear sandboxing. In many regards GTA is more similar to games like DA or Witcher than it is to LoF or Uncharted. Story-wise it's also 2 or 3 times longer than those two. IMO? SP games the likes of Last of Us are going nowhere, but there will be less of them and ultimately they may be pushed to indie territory, like classic RPGs. Games like DA or GTA or Witcher? Or Nier? I think there's definitely place for them in new AAA gaming landscape. Within my circle of friends the popularity of GTAV was the ability to make a task up and go do it. Such as going to try and get to the jet and steal it or doing other strange things which was amplified by the ability to mod the game and that is why my friends that still played the game were upset because they couldn't do the insane yet fun things that GTA V offered. I will agree that single-player only experiences are probably going to go the route of indie or "double a" developers because publishers need to try to make their games to appeal to as many people as possible to appease their shareholders. You can see shareholders abandoning stock when they feel the game won't make as much money as they guess it would. Super Mario Run even though it sold four million copies Nintendo's share prices dropped and analysts predict that was because they didn't have microtransactions in the game. If developers and publishers were to listen to me and I know that is a fat chance of happening, my suggestion would be to focus the game to a demographic or two and not be a bland experience that they try and catch everyone with. I am probably in the minority, but I rather have a 20 hour game that when replayed there are differences if I make different choices and replaying that to me and looking for those changes is a lot more interesting then the experiences I got with a 100 hour Dragon Age: Inquisition. I don't think the community would mind either if there was a note at the end suggesting a second play through to experience different paths for different paths.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 30, 2017 7:31:46 GMT
That is not a good sign for the DA franchise. I know others here predicted that was the real reason Visceral was closed, and they were right. Of course, what he said is a load of bullshit. Counter-examples: Most anticipated new game ( Game Awards nominee): The Last Of Us 2 (although, TLoU2 has a MP mode, as did TLoU, it's biggest claim to fame is the linear SP mode) Uncharted 4 (the quintessential linear SP game, Amy Hennig's claim to fame) : Sold 8.7 million units in it's year of release.
Grand Theft Auto V: earned $1 billion in sales in it's first 3 days of release (it has an MP mode, but is best known for it's SP mode, though debatable whether it's the linear story line or the non-linear sandboxing that makes it so popular) He claims that players don’t play those games “as much” as they did five years ago. That could be true, though I wonder if it’s because there are just fewer being made these days. It was an investors meeting where that was said...
What do you think it was all about? money, duh And what does this title really mean? we can't make money off of SP games, duh ultimately, what does this mean for us? microtransaction multiplayer, get used to them. gambling or not, they're here to stay, duuuuh
PS: with anticipated SP games, I would argue also cyberpunk 2077.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 30, 2017 7:58:00 GMT
We have a ruling... I more or less agree with most of this ruling too. Most games do not fit the full criteria. Good bye CS:GO skin scams.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 30, 2017 9:10:54 GMT
We have a ruling... I more or less agree with most of this ruling too. Most games do not fit the full criteria. Good bye CS:GO skin scams. I honestly don't get it, why would you need to be able to sell the items for it to be gambling?
Or is gambling only considered gambling if both the start and end product is money?
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 30, 2017 9:21:48 GMT
Good bye CS:GO skin scams. I honestly don't get it, why would you need to be able to sell the items for it to be gambling?
Or is gambling only considered gambling if both the start and end product is money?
Pretty much. If it's tradeable for cash you can as well leave the tradeable out and only look at the cash value. ex.: You conduct lottery and there's items for wins. These items can be easily sold - could be regarded as lottery for direct cash prize.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 30, 2017 13:09:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 13:12:48 GMT
I found that the best bit was this: "Battlefront 2 is in flames, and EA executives are calmly explaining the real issue is they overestimated our enthusiasm for our skin melting off."
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 30, 2017 13:48:49 GMT
I don’t disagree, I just worry that in Jorgensen’s mind, “linear” is equivalent to SP. And note that none of the counter examples I mentioned is 5+ years old. So he’s talkin out his ass. Well yeah, but two of the titles you mentioned are very linear, or fairly short SP games and you yourself said that GTA's popularity perhaps may be attributed to its non-linear sandboxing. In many regards GTA is more similar to games like DA or Witcher than it is to LoU or Uncharted. Story-wise it's also 2 or 3 times longer than those two. IMO? SP games the likes of Last of Us are going nowhere, but there will be less of them and ultimately they may be pushed to indie territory, like classic RPGs. Games like DA or GTA or Witcher? Or Nier? I think there's definitely place for them in new AAA gaming landscape. Have you ever considered that SP games is played less today than 5 years ago is cause there are more MP games? Again, is it the industry pushing MP down our throats or are we as gamings craving for more MP and less SP? This is another reason why I hope Anthem fails. I believe Anthem/Destiny games are a bubble and eventually it will burst and the industry will have to course correct. 10 years from now, SP story driven games will be the games that are still abundant and popular (like the 2017 GOTY lineup).
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 30, 2017 15:18:35 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Yep. Article agrees with my view about EA's execs. The powerful have this tendency to never accept blame, so their "unapology" apologies fits the profile. Both the CEO and CFO were neck deep into the game's predatory mechanics and approved of them. So, did LucasFilms, from their statements, imo.
There are too many BF2 players out there willing to put up with the game's shyte. This fact reinforces their view that there is no need to abandon MTs. Milking the cows (players) is so easy. Game publishers of all stripes won't give up this easy money business model. EA all by itself made about 800 million in MTs.
BF2 showed that pre-ordering is a fool's game. Why get burned with Anthem?
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 30, 2017 15:33:06 GMT
Well yeah, but two of the titles you mentioned are very linear, or fairly short SP games and you yourself said that GTA's popularity perhaps may be attributed to its non-linear sandboxing. In many regards GTA is more similar to games like DA or Witcher than it is to LoU or Uncharted. Story-wise it's also 2 or 3 times longer than those two. IMO? SP games the likes of Last of Us are going nowhere, but there will be less of them and ultimately they may be pushed to indie territory, like classic RPGs. Games like DA or GTA or Witcher? Or Nier? I think there's definitely place for them in new AAA gaming landscape. Have you ever considered that SP games is played less today than 5 years ago is cause there are more MP games? No, because MP games have been cancelled over financial concerns or them 'not selling well enough' lately too, including Bioware's own "Shadow Realms". There's more to the story of cancelled projects than 'we concluded SP games are not liked anymore'. Amusing. Are gamers mindless beasts that will grab whichever is pushed on them, and especially at a time when more and more games are crowdfunded and indie gaming is more popular or available than ever? But last time I checked, even the most ragingly popular indie game at this point in time is MP (PUBG). We can't really predict what will happen a year from now, much less 10. For all we know the most popular games will be platformers again, or mobile games, the market of which already earns more money than console or PC games combined.
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