Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 30, 2017 7:33:43 GMT
I just noticed that Robot Congress spent almost a hour talking about this subject the other day. I found it informative having two lawyers that deal with the video game industry and one that has dealt with the gambling machines you would find at bars talking about loot boxes and how the current laws look at them. My takeaway is that in reality the laws are a mess and it is going to take a high court to make a ruling because there have been precedents set in both directions. Edit: Link to Robot Congress Robot Congress Website
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Post by PillarBiter on Oct 30, 2017 11:21:27 GMT
And let the he said/she said begin... I bet heir is closer to the truth than he thinks he really is. That interview did sound like a bitter ex employee in the end but I would presume some of the plans for Anthem are heavily behind multiplayer anyway. There probably is some truth in Manveer's (ugh) words. But on the other hand, I understand EA's point just as well. They have a bussiness to uphold, after all. If they don't make investors happy, there is no bioware at all.
The sad thing is that artistic integrity is compromised for money, in the end. But then again, that's an issue present in the whole world, not just games.
And as long as money is made from games, there will be sleezebag mechanics in them. Be it microtransactions or something else. I get that people want to oppose microtransactions, but be careful what you wish for... they might just as well invent something even worse to replace it.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 30, 2017 13:40:49 GMT
And let the he said/she said begin... I bet heir is closer to the truth than he thinks he really is. That interview did sound like a bitter ex employee in the end but I would presume some of the plans for Anthem are heavily behind multiplayer anyway. There probably is some truth in Manveer's (ugh) words. But on the other hand, I understand EA's point just as well. They have a bussiness to uphold, after all. If they don't make investors happy, there is no bioware at all.
The sad thing is that artistic integrity is compromised for money, in the end. But then again, that's an issue present in the whole world, not just games.
And as long as money is made from games, there will be sleezebag mechanics in them. Be it microtransactions or something else. I get that people want to oppose microtransactions, but be careful what you wish for... they might just as well invent something even worse to replace it.
Considering the extra work done by Schreier in reporting this, I kind of side with EA more on the issue in the end. Their only fault here was trying to exert control too much, which was something they used to do back in the day when it was really bad, in the early 2000s. When Riccitellio was around it was giving the studios enough leeway to make something, now it's going back to mandates. But Amy Henning was not a good fit, Frostbite again is difficult to work with, and the team was pretty much in chaos it seems from the start....so I am not shocked that they pulled the plug on Visceral at this point. I am curious, however, as to what is going to happen next with this Star Wars game.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 30, 2017 14:09:00 GMT
Personally, I don't get his obsession with Frostbite and people having problems with it. The PUBG development team has problems with developing on Unreal and it is taking Epic to make core changes to the engine for the features they want to implement to work. I am pretty sure there are plenty of stories around all the different engines and developers having problems getting what they want to do with it to work inside the scope of those engines. It is just not reported on because well they aren't EA. I think having all their studios work with the same engine is supposed to help with these issues. Bioware had to develope new tools in Frostbite for development of DAI, but now all EA studios have access to those tools. It’s actually a pretty cool long term plan, but it creates significant roadblocks for a ‘first’ game that requires different tools. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Second and third game too, I'm afraid.
Thing is, tools developed for game A may only fill 80-90% of game's B design. So, you still need to develop your own or tweak an exhisting one. It's a shock to learn that it fails to do what you want after 50-70 percent of a program/app is done ( been there done that...). Pooling tools from every studio creates a very large library of similar tools and the devs need to become familiar with them to see which one may fit or comes close. A large tool library, available to all, introduces some serious version problems, unless a Change Management and Control System is in place.... which also introduces Change Authorizations and Lock Out when multiple users want access.
So, while it's a nice concept to say all tools from all studios are available to everyone, the unwelcome reality is that each new game will need a new asset or two just because of its design (ie: remember that studios like to change/innovate their next game). Somehow, I can't see game architects designing a game limited by re-usable tools/assets. I haven't seen it in banking systems, warehouse management systems, airline transportation systems and so on..... reusable tools are limited.... and the FB engines proves it, imo. (🌸=◡=)
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 30, 2017 14:23:29 GMT
I think having all their studios work with the same engine is supposed to help with these issues. Bioware had to develope new tools in Frostbite for development of DAI, but now all EA studios have access to those tools. It’s actually a pretty cool long term plan, but it creates significant roadblocks for a ‘first’ game that requires different tools. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Second and third game too, I'm afraid.
Thing is, tools developed for game A may only fill 80-90% of game's B design. So, you still need to develop your own or tweak an exhisting one. It's a shock to learn that it fails to do what you want after 50-70 percent of a program/app is done ( been there done that...). Pooling tools from every studio creates a very large library of similar tools and the devs need to become familiar with them to see which one may fit or comes close. A large tool library, available to all, introduces some serious version problems, unless a Change Management and Control System is in place.... which also introduces Change Authorizations and Lock Out when multiple users want access.
So, while it's a nice concept to say all tools from all studios are available to everyone, the unwelcome reality is that each new game will need a new asset or two just because of its design (ie: remember that studios like to change/innovate their next game). Somehow, I can't see game architects designing a game limited by re-usable tools/assets. I haven't seen it in banking systems, warehouse management systems, airline transportation systems and so on..... reusable tools are limited.... and the FB engines proves it, imo. (🌸=◡=)
This may also feed the development of Anthem a bit. BioWare probably took that on board as a more traditional TPS because it was easier to develop under Frostbite. That gives them experience with the system (along with the tools used for Dragon Age) and a product that will look and play a lot smoother when compared to other titles. Also adds more tools and assets that can be used and reused when need be.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 30, 2017 14:37:29 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Anthem may have something very similar to Dice's BFII.
BFII has no Season Pass but does have free Seasons DLC. Why, I asked. Well, preventing the player base from fracturing in a MP environment (players missing DLCs can't play with those that do)... "All post-launch heroes, maps, vehicles and content will be free to everyone who own's Star Wars: Battlefront II,", says Iden Versio at EA Play. However, EA is mum on how this free stuff is funded. I strongly suspect that EA will monetize this with random packs of "Star Cards" which can be purchased with real money via MTs. Thus Loot Boxes.
We saw Loot Boxes in Anthem's 1st trailer. It's conceivable that the game will follow BFII's footsteps.
(🌸=◡=)
PS: Does Seasons imply four free DLCs per year?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 30, 2017 15:32:37 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Anthem may have something very similar to Dice's BFII.
BFII has no Season Pass but does have free Seasons DLC. Why, I asked. Well, preventing the player base from fracturing in a MP environment (players missing DLCs can't play with those that do)... "All post-launch heroes, maps, vehicles and content will be free to everyone who own's Star Wars: Battlefront II,", says Iden Versio at EA Play. However, EA is mum on how this free stuff is funded. I strongly suspect that EA will monetize this with random packs of "Star Cards" which can be purchased with real money via MTs. Thus Loot Boxes.
We saw Loot Boxes in Anthem's 1st trailer. It's conceivable that the game will follow BFII's footsteps.
(🌸=◡=)
PS: Does Seasons imply four free DLCs per year?
I do think EA is experimenting with using microtransactions to fund what they are going to be doing with multiplayer in Battlefront since that is what they have done at least three times now with Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age: Inquisition, and now Mass Effect: Andromeda. Now the real question is will they be changing their approach with the feedback players are giving based off of both Shadow of War and Battlefront 2. I don't think Battlefront 2 will be changing for that could be something that would delay the game and I doubt Disney would be happy with that. I don't think Season imply four, from what I have seen normally it just means all the DLC that they would release with the game. Depending on how you look at what DLC is released there is normally only two or three story contents for most Season Pass games with a bunch of related, but not story content as well.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 31, 2017 14:48:40 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Anthem may have something very similar to Dice's BFII.
BFII has no Season Pass but does have free Seasons DLC. Why, I asked. Well, preventing the player base from fracturing in a MP environment (players missing DLCs can't play with those that do)... "All post-launch heroes, maps, vehicles and content will be free to everyone who own's Star Wars: Battlefront II,", says Iden Versio at EA Play. However, EA is mum on how this free stuff is funded. I strongly suspect that EA will monetize this with random packs of "Star Cards" which can be purchased with real money via MTs. Thus Loot Boxes.
We saw Loot Boxes in Anthem's 1st trailer. It's conceivable that the game will follow BFII's footsteps.
(🌸=◡=)
PS: Does Seasons imply four free DLCs per year?
I do think EA is experimenting with using microtransactions to fund what they are going to be doing with multiplayer in Battlefront since that is what they have done at least three times now with Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age: Inquisition, and now Mass Effect: Andromeda. Now the real question is will they be changing their approach with the feedback players are giving based off of both Shadow of War and Battlefront 2. I don't think Battlefront 2 will be changing for that could be something that would delay the game and I doubt Disney would be happy with that. Snip -(_ANTHEM_)-
Experimenting... very likely.
Star Wars: The Old republic got update 5.5 which changed the functionality of the Cartel Market. Bio may actually be trying to figure the sweet spot for their MTs. ... provide cosmetics and worthy gear.
This link was posted in the tweet thread.
Looks like MP games need the MTs to fund them.
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 4, 2017 19:12:44 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Yuuya Tokuda, game director for Monster Hunter, says that games that successfully do lootboxes are designed around this core loot mechanic rather than gameplay action.
We know that EA loves MTs. Their recent Q financials clearly show this revenue stream. I'm wondering how heavily EA leaned on Bio when the game architects were designing their Anthem game.
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 6, 2017 21:14:52 GMT
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 6, 2017 21:23:34 GMT
Do you need to make this when Holmes response was already brought up in the other thread?
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 7, 2017 10:19:41 GMT
Do you need to make this when Holmes response was already brought up in the other thread? Probably wants some input from Watson, too.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 9, 2017 23:07:33 GMT
Yup. At this point I'll be VERY surprised if Anthem wouldn't have some kind of gambling-esque lootbox scheme. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see schemes of the style Activision patented. Those schemes are patented so it won't happen exactly that way.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 10, 2017 0:01:22 GMT
Those schemes are patented so it won't happen exactly that way. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to milk a whale. Or emotionally manipulate the average gamer into impulse buying some virtual tat. Then don't buy the hat. When folks buy $60 monocles on EVE online because they can or want to, that fight is already lost and what matters is personal self-control.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 10, 2017 3:38:26 GMT
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 10, 2017 5:39:46 GMT
And?
Last time I checked the video game industry is a for profit venture. I personally rather see the prices of game just go up, but players have made it loud and clear that they don't want to pay a what it costs to make a game so it is making publishers and developers look for other revenue streams.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 10, 2017 5:47:50 GMT
And? Last time I checked the video game industry is a for profit venture. I personally rather see the prices of game just go up, but players have made it loud and clear that they don't want to pay a what it costs to make a game so it is making publishers and developers look for other revenue streams. This argument is tired and only tells a small portion of the story. Sure, they are a for-profit venture. That is correct. People don't want to pay for what it costs to make a game? lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 10, 2017 7:38:21 GMT
I read that Ubisoft made more money from DLC/digital revenue last quarter than actually selling the games.
The question is not whether additional funding mechanics are here to stay (I think they are), it's about whether they can be implemented in a way acceptable to most consumers that doesn't break the core product.
Oh, we have another thread on this very topic, so moving these posts in there.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 10, 2017 7:45:54 GMT
Do you need to make this when Holmes response was already brought up in the other thread? Yep, let's move these multiple stub-threads together... (moves posts)
Have tweaked the thread title to maintain a discussion to link to Anthem.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 10, 2017 13:05:47 GMT
And? Last time I checked the video game industry is a for profit venture. I personally rather see the prices of game just go up, but players have made it loud and clear that they don't want to pay a what it costs to make a game so it is making publishers and developers look for other revenue streams. This argument is tired and only tells a small portion of the story. Sure, they are a for-profit venture. That is correct. People don't want to pay for what it costs to make a game? lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol I am a grownup and can take your response, why hide your response in a spoiler tag? Have you seen the way the playerbase reacts when money enters the pictures. Plenty of times I have seen "I pay $60 for the game and I am entitled to all the content for that" and "that DLC is just cut out of the game is a cash grab" shows me they are unwilling to pay what a game really costs when they make it sounds like all they are willing to pay $60 or the people making threats about buying used or pirating it out of spite. I don't like microtransactions, but when people like Jim Sterling and other YouTubers like him get upset that they are now "fee to play" games because they are looking for a way to lessen the risk of development budgets in the tens of millions requiring multi-million of copies to be sold. When Paradox increased their game prices and they did it a little too sneaky, but there was still plenty of comments about how that price increase was unreasonable and not just the way they did it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 10, 2017 18:09:28 GMT
So we are just going to lump all MT/loot box topics into one thread?
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 11, 2017 4:22:15 GMT
Well, I'm hearing rumors that Cyberpunk is going to have online components and be more "destiny like" than witcher, looking into it for news to try and confirm that rumor.
That's a very telling trend now if true isent it?
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 11, 2017 5:58:05 GMT
Well, I'm hearing rumors that Cyberpunk is going to have online components and be more "destiny like" than witcher, looking into it for news to try and confirm that rumor. That's a very telling trend now if true isent it? Do you think those rumors are based on the grant requests that CDPR did in 2015? For seemless multiplayer could be taken to be "Destiny Like". CDPR Grant Requests
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 11, 2017 6:24:37 GMT
Well, I'm hearing rumors that Cyberpunk is going to have online components and be more "destiny like" than witcher, looking into it for news to try and confirm that rumor. That's a very telling trend now if true isent it? Do you think those rumors are based on the grant requests that CDPR did in 2015? For seemless multiplayer could be taken to be "Destiny Like". CDPR Grant RequestsPartially that, but we got what may be info from the horse's mouth, that I need to get translated when I can.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 11, 2017 11:51:20 GMT
So we are just going to lump all MT/loot box topics into one thread? As the same arguments get used and this is, after all, a sub-forum about 'Anthem', that sounds like a plan...
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