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Post by deadlydwarf on Oct 29, 2017 3:53:20 GMT
Okay, on my current PT, my PC worked with Wynne to clear the Tower. When they return to Gregoire, my PC expressed the concern that there might still be blood mages among the surviving mages. Neither Wynne nor Irving objected to my PC's judgement on the issue and Wynne still joined my companions. When I return to the Tower later, all the mages are gone. What has happened to them. When I talk to Greagoire about the Circle, he says it needs to be reformed with mages from other towers. So, what happened to Irving, Petra, and the rest?
When my PC talks to Dagna, my PC says the Tower has been annulled. Doesn't that mean all the mages have been killed?
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mousestalker
Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 12,116 Likes: 30,348
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Post by mousestalker on Oct 29, 2017 6:11:38 GMT
They are all dead. Yes.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Oct 29, 2017 18:23:09 GMT
When my PC made that pronouncement, Cullen is anxious to kill everyone, but Greagoire refuses and insteads, makes it a point to offer treatment for the injured mages. I assumed that meant some kind of quarantine. I suppose I have to wait until the end to see the epilogue slides. I would've assumed that if my PC's words meant death to the mages, both Irving and Wynne would've protested loudly and Wynne would not join the companions.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 29, 2017 20:14:35 GMT
The game is a bit fuzzy about what will happen to the mages if you side with the Templars. It should be noted that Greagoir never actually got the authorisation he was waiting for. Even if you advise him to chose to pursue annulment, Greagoir states his intention is to leave it to the Chantry to decide the survivor's fate. As much of a hardass as Greagoir can come across as (especially to a Mage Warden), he's really not depicted as the "kill 'em all and let the Maker sort them out" type of Knight-Commander as Meredith was in DA2. He seems far more level-headed and by-the-book, who'd only carry out such a harsh sentence if the Chantry deemed it appropriate. Even Wynne and Irving both characterise Greagoir as "not unreasonable" and someone who'd be willing to show leniency if it could be proven the mages were "safe". I personally don't that Irving or Wynne would have allowed the survivors to be put to the sword without objecting either. If you want to be spoiled on what (supposedly) happened according to the epilogues (which are semi-canon); If Irving survived, he and the other survivors were imprisoned for about a year as the Templars try to determine if any are blood mages, dangerous and/or possessed. Irving is eventually cleared, although his spirit is broken by the ordeal. He spends the rest of his days in the Circle in Val Royeaux, serving as an administrator.
If Irving isn't saved, the Circle was eventually rebuilt following months of efforts by the Templars to clear the tower of any lingering spirits, making it safe for mages to reside there once more. It's unclear what happened to the surviving mages and whether the Circle was rebuilt with mages from elsewhere, or any survivors "cleared" by the Templar as in the epilogue above.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Oct 29, 2017 20:53:38 GMT
You know the irony - for as much as they distrust mages, why would they *want* to rebuild the circle? Just abandon the building and have the other circles keep their mages where they are. Send the Fereldan Templars to other circles as well and call it done.
Wouldn't the place be really creepy in Witch Hunt if it had been closed up for the intervening years and never actually cleaned?
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Post by Sifr on Oct 29, 2017 21:14:23 GMT
And considering the history of the place, it was dumb to make a Circle in the first place. Kinloch Hold started as an Avvar settlement and fortress. The Avvar are known to freely mingle with spirits and rituals like the "Watchguard of the Reaching" demonstrates that certain spirits were bound in the tower. These rituals were either forgotten or mistaken by later denizens for foolish traditions, meaning that various wards grew weaker over time. Then the Tevinters took the tower from the Avvar after a lengthy campaign. The Tevinters are no strangers to experimenting with magic and binding spirits either. Various artefacts and relics from that time are now kept in storage in the lower levels, locked away in repositories that only few are granted access to. After Andraste's armies drove the Tevinters from Ferelden, the fortress stood abandoned for about 400 years and was widely shunned and thought cursed by the locals. It wasn't even the first choice when picking a Circle location in Ferelden. Only after the Circle in Denerim was destroyed by fire during the Chantry Schism of 3:87 did they relocate to Kinloch. "Hey guys, why don't we relocate our mages to that old Avvar fort on the lake? Y'know, the one that the Tevinters occupied for a while and now everyone thinks is haunted? What's the worst that could possibly happen?"
Whoever said that needed to be slapped. Then turn and slap the person who agreed with them.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 29, 2017 21:37:44 GMT
And considering the history of the place, it was dumb to make a Circle in the first place. Kinloch Hold started as an Avvar settlement and fortress. The Avvar are known to freely mingle with spirits and rituals like the "Watchguard of the Reaching" demonstrates that certain spirits were bound in the tower. These rituals were either forgotten or mistaken by later denizens for foolish traditions, meaning that various wards grew weaker over time. Then the Tevinters took the tower from the Avvar after a lengthy campaign. The Tevinters are no strangers to experimenting with magic and binding spirits either. Various artefacts and relics from that time are now kept in storage in the lower levels, locked away in repositories that only few are granted access to. After Andraste's armies drove the Tevinters from Ferelden, the fortress stood abandoned for about 400 years and was widely shunned and thought cursed by the locals. It wasn't even the first choice when picking a Circle location in Ferelden. Only after the Circle in Denerim was destroyed by fire during the Chantry Schism of 3:87 did they relocate to Kinloch. "Hey guys, why don't we relocate our mages to that old Avvar fort on the lake? Y'know, the one that the Tevinters occupied for a while and now everyone thinks is haunted? What's the worst that could possibly happen?"
Whoever said that needed to be slapped. Then turn and slap the person who agreed with them. The Chantry can choose the best places for the safety. The Gallows... for example.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 29, 2017 21:54:50 GMT
Or Aeonar.
Let's put mages in prison in a place "spiritually damaged" due to heavy magical experimentation by the Vints. When even the Vints felt it was safest to keep their experiments as far away as possible from people, why would you set up shop there?
Even the given explanation doesn't really make much sense, because spirits and demons are going to be attracted to any mage kept in a place where the Veil is that thin, regardless of whether they're guility or not!
Templars really do make the worst location scouts.
(And it should be no surprise that Cullen's roof in his office in Inquisition is never fixed)
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
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Post by Exile Isan on Oct 30, 2017 6:42:23 GMT
(And it should be no surprise that Cullen's roof in his office in Inquisition is never fixed) Not to derail this thread or anything, but the likely (in game) reason it was never fixed is because, according the WoT 2, Cullen is claustrophobic after having be kept in that magic cage in Origins for so long. This is also why he wouldn't go below decks on the ship that carried him, Cassandra and Varric from the Free Marches to Ferelden, not because he was sea sick, but because it was too tight a space. And I agree with you that the Chantry are bloody fools when it comes to choosing locations for Circles.
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Post by fylimar on Oct 30, 2017 10:50:09 GMT
Or Aeonar. Let's put mages in prison in a place "spiritually damaged" due to heavy magical experimentation by the Vints. When even the Vints felt it was safest to keep their experiments as far away as possible from people, why would you set up shop there? Even the given explanation doesn't really make much sense, because spirits and demons are going to be attracted to any mage kept in a place where the Veil is that thin, regardless of whether they're guility or not! Templars really do make the worst location scouts. (And it should be no surprise that Cullen's roof in his office in Inquisition is never fixed) I agree, templars are the worst loacation scouts in Thedas. I'm pretty sure, there are nice abandoned castles,where nothing out of the ordinary happened, which can be used for circles, but no, it has to be the really creepy places, with thin veil, blood sacrifices, experiments and the lot
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Post by deadlydwarf on Oct 30, 2017 15:43:54 GMT
The game is a bit fuzzy about what will happen to the mages if you side with the Templars. It should be noted that Greagoir never actually got the authorisation he was waiting for. Even if you advise him to chose to pursue annulment, Greagoir states his intention is to leave it to the Chantry to decide the survivor's fate. As much of a hardass as Greagoir can come across as (especially to a Mage Warden), he's really not depicted as the "kill 'em all and let the Maker sort them out" type of Knight-Commander as Meredith was in DA2. He seems far more level-headed and by-the-book, who'd only carry out such a harsh sentence if the Chantry deemed it appropriate. Even Wynne and Irving both characterise Greagoir as "not unreasonable" and someone who'd be willing to show leniency if it could be proven the mages were "safe". I personally don't that Irving or Wynne would have allowed the survivors to be put to the sword without objecting either. If you want to be spoiled on what (supposedly) happened according to the epilogues (which are semi-canon); If Irving survived, he and the other survivors were imprisoned for about a year as the Templars try to determine if any are blood mages, dangerous and/or possessed. Irving is eventually cleared, although his spirit is broken by the ordeal. He spends the rest of his days in the Circle in Val Royeaux, serving as an administrator.
If Irving isn't saved, the Circle was eventually rebuilt following months of efforts by the Templars to clear the tower of any lingering spirits, making it safe for mages to reside there once more. It's unclear what happened to the surviving mages and whether the Circle was rebuilt with mages from elsewhere, or any survivors "cleared" by the Templar as in the epilogue above. Yeah, that's what I thought would be the case. But my PC's use of the word "annulment" when talking with Dagna in Orzammar left me with the image of mage executions. And boy did my PC feel guilty on subsequent visits to the Tower. The sad silence left her very regretful! It's a pity we never hear from Greagoire again. Also sad that Cullen isn't part of the Templars who come to assist you. Rather painful/humiliating for a soldier to be forced to sit out the biggest conflict ever to strike his homeland.
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Post by q9j9p on Jan 28, 2018 19:27:24 GMT
I ended up on the Broken Circle Bridge...well, we all did...
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 30, 2018 8:01:37 GMT
Or Aeonar. Let's put mages in prison in a place "spiritually damaged" due to heavy magical experimentation by the Vints. When even the Vints felt it was safest to keep their experiments as far away as possible from people, why would you set up shop there? Even the given explanation doesn't really make much sense, because spirits and demons are going to be attracted to any mage kept in a place where the Veil is that thin, regardless of whether they're guility or not! Templars really do make the worst location scouts. (And it should be no surprise that Cullen's roof in his office in Inquisition is never fixed) I agree, templars are the worst loacation scouts in Thedas. I'm pretty sure, there are nice abandoned castles,where nothing out of the ordinary happened, which can be used for circles, but no, it has to be the really creepy places, with thin veil, blood sacrifices, experiments and the lot For what's it's worth, Word of Gaider is that places like that are picked because even if you pick a place with a strong Veil, the mages there constantly practicing their techniques are going to weaken it anyway. I guess the feeling is that there's no point in damaging the Veil somewhere else when it's already damaged at Kinloch Hold or the Gallows. Though I agree that when it gets to the point that the Veil's weak enough that it gets to the point that one Circle is statistically significantly more abomination-prone than the others, maybe there shouldn't be a Circle in that city at all.
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