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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 7, 2017 4:18:08 GMT
Holy shit! I didn't think they could make a better SW movie than The Phantom Menace! But did they ever! Emo sith baby? omg, so amazing! whoever wrote that needs an Oscar! Your sarcasm is so thick you can cut it with an inactive lightsaber.
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Post by Ruliya on Nov 7, 2017 4:18:24 GMT
Oh come on! Someone was going to fall for that at some point! Ruin a girls fun why don't you xD The movie was a decent enough action Sci Fi movie that mirrored in places A New Hope, and stood on its own as a good inclusion in the franchise. The emo Sith thing kinda stands, coz that seemed a bit out of place. I really enjoyed Kylo Ren. One of the better parts of the movie honestly. Actually its funny now that I think about it, and I am sure I have mentioned this before, one of the things that gives me a huge chuckle is when people go all "Star Wars TFA sucks because its a carbon copy of ANH" And yet in the same breath, or in a later post, say "Kylo Ren sucks because he isn't Vader." Riiiight. Kylo was an interesting character to be sure, but we know he was taught by Luke and is like mid 20's or something? I've not read ancillary stuff so I don't know his age. But it seemed off to me. Things do look more solid in 8's trailor tho! But I always thought the nods to A New Hope was a homage in a way for a new audience. Because while some things were similar most of it was different. But you can't please some fans xD
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 4:23:11 GMT
I really enjoyed Kylo Ren. One of the better parts of the movie honestly. Actually its funny now that I think about it, and I am sure I have mentioned this before, one of the things that gives me a huge chuckle is when people go all "Star Wars TFA sucks because its a carbon copy of ANH" And yet in the same breath, or in a later post, say "Kylo Ren sucks because he isn't Vader." Riiiight. Kylo was an interesting character to be sure, but we know he was taught by Luke and is like mid 20's or something? I've not read ancillary stuff so I don't know his age. But it seemed off to me. Things do look more solid in 8's trailor tho! But I always thought the nods to A New Hope was a homage in a way for a new audience. Because while some things were similar most of it was different. But you can't please some fans xD Abrams was trying to bridge the new and the old. I think he was quite successful, so the next time out (Episode 8) I think they will do new things. The only thing I really wish they didn't include was Starkiller base, I get why they did, but without it I think 99 % of the NH TFA comparisons would literally die.
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Post by Ruliya on Nov 7, 2017 4:44:46 GMT
Kylo was an interesting character to be sure, but we know he was taught by Luke and is like mid 20's or something? I've not read ancillary stuff so I don't know his age. But it seemed off to me. Things do look more solid in 8's trailor tho! But I always thought the nods to A New Hope was a homage in a way for a new audience. Because while some things were similar most of it was different. But you can't please some fans xD Abrams was trying to bridge the new and the old. I think he was quite successful, so the next time out (Episode 8) I think they will do new things. The only thing I really wish they didn't include was Starkiller base, I get why they did, but without it I think 99 % of the NH TFA comparisons would literally die. I thought he did well too, tbh the real question here should be, do you like Rogue One? xD I did personally, thought it was a cool little move. Nothing to do with the mainline plot of SW ofc, too many inconsistencies, and from my messages on ST: Disc, you know how much I hate them I don't think Starkiller Base itself was the problem, it was the power plant that required X-Wing Bombardment to overload and blow it up, which was different in technicality to the Death Star was more or less the same scenario.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 4:48:04 GMT
Abrams was trying to bridge the new and the old. I think he was quite successful, so the next time out (Episode 8) I think they will do new things. The only thing I really wish they didn't include was Starkiller base, I get why they did, but without it I think 99 % of the NH TFA comparisons would literally die. I thought he did well too, tbh the real question here should be, do you like Rogue One? xD I did personally, thought it was a cool little move. Nothing to do with the mainline plot of SW ofc, too many inconsistencies, and from my messages on ST: Disc, you know how much I hate them I don't think Starkiller Base itself was the problem, it was the power plant that required X-Wing Bombardment to overload and blow it up, which was different in technicality to the Death Star was more or less the same scenario. as in you hate Discovery or Inconsitancies? I liked Rogue One, low end on the tier 2 scale, but nowhere near as much as I liked TFA.
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Post by Ruliya on Nov 7, 2017 4:55:29 GMT
I thought he did well too, tbh the real question here should be, do you like Rogue One? xD I did personally, thought it was a cool little move. Nothing to do with the mainline plot of SW ofc, too many inconsistencies, and from my messages on ST: Disc, you know how much I hate them I don't think Starkiller Base itself was the problem, it was the power plant that required X-Wing Bombardment to overload and blow it up, which was different in technicality to the Death Star was more or less the same scenario. as in you hate Discovery or Inconsitancies? I liked Rogue One, low end on the tier 2 scale, but nowhere near as much as I liked TFA. Was it not you I had a large conversation with about the inconsistencies in Discovery making it just impossible to believe it was set in the Prime Universe? I find Rogue One is more a divisive movie to fans than TFA, which was my point there.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 5:02:28 GMT
as in you hate Discovery or Inconsitancies? I liked Rogue One, low end on the tier 2 scale, but nowhere near as much as I liked TFA. Was it not you I had a large conversation with about the inconsistencies in Discovery making it just impossible to believe it was set in the Prime Universe? I find Rogue One is more a divisive movie to fans than TFA, which was my point there. Probably. Honestly I have that argument so often the usernames sort of run together.
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Post by Ruliya on Nov 7, 2017 5:12:12 GMT
Was it not you I had a large conversation with about the inconsistencies in Discovery making it just impossible to believe it was set in the Prime Universe? I find Rogue One is more a divisive movie to fans than TFA, which was my point there. Probably. Honestly I have that argument so often the usernames sort of run together. Do you steadfastly believe it is in Prime Universe, or no? I know it's off topic here, but I seriously forget at this point xD
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 5:13:12 GMT
Probably. Honestly I have that argument so often the usernames sort of run together. Do you steadfastly believe it is in Prime Universe, or no? I know it's off topic here, but I seriously forget at this point xD I am ninety nine percent sure. Only way its not is if they are trying to do some kind of *gasp* plot twist.
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Post by Ruliya on Nov 7, 2017 5:14:52 GMT
Do you steadfastly believe it is in Prime Universe, or no? I know it's off topic here, but I seriously forget at this point xD I am ninety nine percent sure. Only way its not is if they are trying to do some kind of *gasp* plot twist. Despite 99.9% of Discovery not matching anything Trek related ever?
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 5:16:17 GMT
I am ninety nine percent sure. Only way its not is if they are trying to do some kind of *gasp* plot twist. Despite 99.9% of Discovery not matching anything Trek related ever? So we don't veer too wildly off topic...I disagree with that assessment.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 7, 2017 5:19:36 GMT
Oh come on! Someone was going to fall for that at some point! Ruin a girls fun why don't you xD The movie was a decent enough action Sci Fi movie that mirrored in places A New Hope, and stood on its own as a good inclusion in the franchise. The emo Sith thing kinda stands, coz that seemed a bit out of place. I really enjoyed Kylo Ren. One of the better parts of the movie honestly. Actually its funny now that I think about it, and I am sure I have mentioned this before, one of the things that gives me a huge chuckle is when people go all "Star Wars TFA sucks because its a carbon copy of ANH" And yet in the same breath, or in a later post, say "Kylo Ren sucks because he isn't Vader." Riiiight. Well Kylo Ren was obviously trying to hit the same notes as Vader, he was a less iconic, more emo and less intimidating version of Vader.
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Post by Ruliya on Nov 7, 2017 5:20:34 GMT
Despite 99.9% of Discovery not matching anything Trek related ever? So we don't veer too wildly off topic...I disagree with that assessment. Awww come on, diverting a SW thread to a ST thread is the dream But I do need to sleep, and I'm being a little facetious. So apologies and do continue.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Nov 7, 2017 5:21:40 GMT
Star Trek is far superior to Star Wars, honestly.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 5:22:12 GMT
I really enjoyed Kylo Ren. One of the better parts of the movie honestly. Actually its funny now that I think about it, and I am sure I have mentioned this before, one of the things that gives me a huge chuckle is when people go all "Star Wars TFA sucks because its a carbon copy of ANH" And yet in the same breath, or in a later post, say "Kylo Ren sucks because he isn't Vader." Riiiight. Well Kylo Ren was obviously trying to hit the same notes as Vader, he was a less iconic, more emo and less intimidating version of Vader. Something else I've said in the official Star Wars thread: While I do like Vader more then Kylo, I liked Kylo more in TFA then I did Vader in ANH.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Nov 7, 2017 5:24:10 GMT
I am ninety nine percent sure. Only way its not is if they are trying to do some kind of *gasp* plot twist. Despite 99.9% of Discovery not matching anything Trek related ever? It's a far lower estimate than that. I have my problems with DIS (and we ought take it to the ST thread,) but you make it sound as if beyond Star Trek being in the title, it's 100% divorced from the rest of the franchise. Via reference, inclusion, and appearance of various things within the franchise to date, it's going to at most be about 70% unlike other shows.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 5:24:44 GMT
Star Trek is far superior to Star Wars, honestly. If Discovery keeps going the way its going then I will probably wind up agreeing with that statment. Though both franchises are relatively close to each other in terms of favorbility with me. Both parts have bits I love. Both parts have bits I really don't care for. TBH Star Warshas been interesting more from a philosophical standpoint, at least until TFA came out, but Trek probably had the better pure entertainment factor.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 7, 2017 5:39:39 GMT
Star Trek is far superior to Star Wars, honestly. In principle I'd agree. Overall its universe and history is more interesting, but in execution, it's really hit or miss. I'm gonna be one of those filthy blasphemes that actually doesn't particularly like most of TOS, and thinks that the majority of the Star Trek films are actually trash. TNG is really the only one I genuinely like throughout.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Nov 7, 2017 5:53:06 GMT
Star Trek is far superior to Star Wars, honestly. In principle I'd agree. Overall its universe and history is more interesting, but in execution, it's really hit or miss. I'm gonna be one of those filthy blasphemes that actually doesn't particularly like most of TOS, and thinks that the majority of the Star Trek films are actually trash. TNG is really the only one I genuinely like throughout. TNG-era is the best era of Trek, honestly. DS9, VOY, and TNG are the best of Trek. As for the films, the Star Trek movie curse holds true for every film that doesn't have an even sum (i.e., every odd-numbered film plus 10 (1 + 0 = 1).) I = boring, mediocre II = Classic III = watchable IV = Classic V = unwatchable crap VI = Good film, not as good as II or IV but a good send-off for TOS-cast VII = mediocre VIII = best of the TNG movies, entertaining IX = mediocre, the seams are starting to show X = First horrible even numbered movie, but surprise, it has an odd-numbered sum, so the Curse still lives! Reboot/Kelvin Timeline: Star Trek = entertaining, acceptable if you don't think too hard (or alternatively, think enough to create justifications for what you see) Into Darkness = OK if you don't think about it, but if you do, it starts getting ugly very, very fast. Beyond = IMO, the best of the Kelvin Timeline movies simply because it's so... routine. The routine makes it feel like an extended Star Trek episode, which is fine with me.
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Post by mybudgee on Nov 7, 2017 7:47:50 GMT
Yes and no. It had some good moments, but most of the "good" was due to it pulling nostalgic strings, not because of the movie's own merits.Yep. Basically how I feel about episode 7 I still rate this flick the way I did when I saw it opening weekend 7/10 The plot was not original enough. It had too many "Star Wars-cliches", i.e. Starkiller Base, to the point that it became almost a Spaceballs-level spoof of itself. I, personally didn't feel that Rey is a "Mary Sue" or there were unnecessary feminist tropes (See: the Ghostbusters re-boot). I am confident that we'll see why/how Rey can do so many things so well. I understand what this movie was MEANT to be; a new intro to Star Wars for the millennials and younger kids, and an apology of sorts for the prequels. It just felt a bit too much like a marketing video than a piece of art. It sometimes almost felt like an ad more than a film. That said, I loved the Jacen Solo -ish character of Kylo/Ben. I loved seeing Han & Chewie together. I loved seeing TIE fighters & lightsaber duels. I loved having a new film in this fictional universe which didn't feel (entirely) like it was kind of mocking the audience with awful acting and worse writing. I loved that the actors in this film (especially Daisy) were so damned good! I didn't feel guilty walking out of the theater like I did with ep. 1 and 2. I felt proud to be a nerd and very optimistic about this new trilogy. This brings me to ep. 8... There's really no mincing words about it anymore, I can say with 100% certainty that The Last Jedi will either make or break me as far as the new canon goes. I have been patient, and I have been rewarded (ROGUE ONE) and I have been humiliated (Rebels) for being a Star Wars fanatic. This film will either move me from the bubble into the group that is on-board with the new stories, or it will cement my place firmly in the Disney Sucks category. Believe me, I do NOT want to be in the latter category. I want so badly for the Lucasfilm "story-group" to delight me for years to come with awesome new films about cool characters and great adventures. I want the universe to expand beyond anything I've read or imagined, I want to be excited about Lucasfilm into my middle/old age. However, I cannot hide my feelings. I have to be honest with myself regarding stuff like saber-copters & menstruating Kyber crystals. It is fucking stupid. Some of the crap Disney has approved in this new canon (90% of it in Rebels) is awful. In some ways it feels even more egregious to me than the prequels because they (Kathleen Kennedy et. al) fucking KNOW BETTER! They know, deep in their hearts when a character is being written to pander to some demographic rather than for the sake of the story. They know another super-weapon is dumb and extraneous. They know that a lightsaber spinning and being used to fly around is painfully fucking dumb. They know how and why the prequels failed. They aren't oblivious or delusional. So, the question is; why green-light these shitty ideas? I can only think of two possibilites. One, they are sadistic & enjoy tormenting us old nerds by giving us great stuff with a few turds here and there. Not enough to turn us away, but just enough to make us annoyed. The second possibility is much more disturbing to me, because of the implications about the future... and that's simply that they don't really care.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2017 8:09:42 GMT
Yes and no. It had some good moments, but most of the "good" was due to it pulling nostalgic strings, not because of the movie's own merits.Yep. Basically how I feel about episode 7 I still rate this flick the way I did when I saw it opening weekend 7/10 The plot was not original enough. It had too many "Star Wars-cliches", i.e. Starkiller Base, to the point that it became almost a Spaceballs-level spoof of itself. I, personally didn't feel that Rey is a "Mary Sue" or there were unnecessary feminist tropes (See: the Ghostbusters re-boot). I am confident that we'll see why/how Rey can do so many things so well. I understand what this movie was MEANT to be; a new intro to Star Wars for the millennials and younger kids, and an apology of sorts for the prequels. It just felt a bit too much like a marketing video than a piece of art. It sometimes almost felt like an ad more than a film. That said, I loved the Jacen Solo -ish character of Kylo/Ben. I loved seeing Han & Chewie together. I loved seeing TIE fighters & lightsaber duels. I loved having a new film in this fictional universe which didn't feel (entirely) like it was kind of mocking the audience with awful acting and worse writing. I loved that the actors in this film (especially Daisy) were so damned good! I didn't feel guilty walking out of the theater like I did with ep. 1 and 2. I felt proud to be a nerd and very optimistic about this new trilogy. This brings me to ep. 8... There's really no mincing words about it anymore, I can say with 100% certainty that The Last Jedi will either make or break me as far as the new canon goes. I have been patient, and I have been rewarded (ROGUE ONE) and I have been humiliated (Rebels) for being a Star Wars fanatic. This film will either move me from the bubble into the group that is on-board with the new stories, or it will cement my place firmly in the Disney Sucks category. Believe me, I do NOT want to be in the latter category. I want so badly for the Lucasfilm "story-group" to delight me for years to come with awesome new films about cool characters and great adventures. I want the universe to expand beyond anything I've read or imagined, I want to be excited about Lucasfilm into my middle/old age. However, I cannot hide my feelings. I have to be honest with myself regarding stuff like saber-copters & menstruating Kyber crystals. It is fucking stupid. Some of the crap Disney has approved in this new canon (90% of it in Rebels) is awful. In some ways it feels even more egregious to me than the prequels because they (Kathleen Kennedy et. al) fucking KNOW BETTER! They know, deep in their hearts when a character is being written to pander to some demographic rather than for the sake of the story. They know another super-weapon is dumb and extraneous. They know that a lightsaber spinning and being used to fly around is painfully fucking dumb. They know how and why the prequels failed. They aren't oblivious or delusional. So, the question is; why green-light these shitty ideas? I can only think of two possibilites. One, they are sadistic & enjoy tormenting us old nerds by giving us great stuff with a few turds here and there. Not enough to turn us away, but just enough to make us annoyed. The second possibility is much more disturbing to me, because of the implications about the future... and that's simply that they don't really care. I think that is the point though. As long as the turds are few and far between its ok. Now I know bad ideas will get various millage from people, and what people think are bad ideas are different, but with the saber copters for instance it was like...huh....that's different...I mean I suppose its possible...*shrugs*...whatever. But the end of that episode. My mouth was on the floor at the beuty of it. The last five minutes of that episode were some of the best moments of Star Wars I have ever seen. So that is where we are...are we willing to move past and forgive the turds if it gets to us some great storytelling? Some stuff that, while it may be stupid, its relatively unimportant? And...I just can't really find any turd ideas in TFA. There are a couple of wonky things, a couple of things had I been in charge and could have done a mini series or a longer movie I would have done, but they couldn't, they didn't so *shrug* its whatever. And ultimatley there were some really great scenes in the movie too and some interestingly fresh ideas in a 'copy cat' movie.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Nov 7, 2017 8:54:55 GMT
Star Trek is far superior to Star Wars, honestly. If Discovery keeps going the way its going then I will probably wind up agreeing with that statment. Though both franchises are relatively close to each other in terms of favorbility with me. Both parts have bits I love. Both parts have bits I really don't care for. TBH Star Warshas been interesting more from a philosophical standpoint, at least until TFA came out, but Trek probably had the better pure entertainment factor. As you probably realize, I'm on the opposite end - I think Discovery, while not being in and of itself awful, does detract from the franchise - then again, I'm set in the ways of the TNG-era, and I don't find much redeemability or likability from any of the cast except for perhaps Stamets or Saru, who I see as being the most 'Starfleet' of the crew. Lorca and Tyler are too 'military', and Burnham is too wooden. Beyond Tilly, the show hasn't focused on anyone else. Star Wars has... burned all bridges with me. What vestigial enjoyment I get from the series is solely from prior to 2014, when Disney axed the original EU. The movies were never that entertaining to me, and all of my enjoyment from the franchise comes from prior pieces that have more or less been un-personed by Disney. As well, the strategy for annual releases and market oversaturation is just not a cogent marketing strategy in my opinion. Philosophically, I've always found Star Wars to have a limiting (in regards to the movies) dualism to its morality, and statements from George Lucas never clarified it for the better. Star Trek on the other hand presented a lot more complex issues (that were also often socially relevant) that required much more from their solutions than brunt-force violent applications. So... basically the inverse of your statement again: Star Trek is more interesting philosophically/morally/etc, while Star Wars.... isn't better entertainment, so I can't say that Star Wars was better in that aspect.
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Post by Melra on Nov 7, 2017 12:28:37 GMT
If someone was comparing DS9 with Star Wars, I might understand DS9 coming on top, but Discovery. Hahahah, hell even Orville seems like a better Star Trek than Star Trek: Discovery.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 7, 2017 12:56:22 GMT
If Discovery keeps going the way its going then I will probably wind up agreeing with that statment. Though both franchises are relatively close to each other in terms of favorbility with me. Both parts have bits I love. Both parts have bits I really don't care for. TBH Star Warshas been interesting more from a philosophical standpoint, at least until TFA came out, but Trek probably had the better pure entertainment factor. As you probably realize, I'm on the opposite end - I think Discovery, while not being in and of itself awful, does detract from the franchise - then again, I'm set in the ways of the TNG-era, and I don't find much redeemability or likability from any of the cast except for perhaps Stamets or Saru, who I see as being the most 'Starfleet' of the crew. Lorca and Tyler are too 'military', and Burnham is too wooden. Beyond Tilly, the show hasn't focused on anyone else. Star Wars has... burned all bridges with me. What vestigial enjoyment I get from the series is solely from prior to 2014, when Disney axed the original EU. The movies were never that entertaining to me, and all of my enjoyment from the franchise comes from prior pieces that have more or less been un-personed by Disney. As well, the strategy for annual releases and market oversaturation is just not a cogent marketing strategy in my opinion. Philosophically, I've always found Star Wars to have a limiting (in regards to the movies) dualism to its morality, and statements from George Lucas never clarified it for the better. Star Trek on the other hand presented a lot more complex issues (that were also often socially relevant) that required much more from their solutions than brunt-force violent applications. So... basically the inverse of your statement again: Star Trek is more interesting philosophically/morally/etc, while Star Wars.... isn't better entertainment, so I can't say that Star Wars was better in that aspect. Yo buddy the Star Trek thread is that way bsn.boards.net/thread/13274/star-trekThis thread is about finding out whether people on this forum have the wrong opinion!
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 7, 2017 13:15:52 GMT
As you probably realize, I'm on the opposite end - I think Discovery, while not being in and of itself awful, does detract from the franchise - then again, I'm set in the ways of the TNG-era, and I don't find much redeemability or likability from any of the cast except for perhaps Stamets or Saru, who I see as being the most 'Starfleet' of the crew. Lorca and Tyler are too 'military', and Burnham is too wooden. Beyond Tilly, the show hasn't focused on anyone else. Star Wars has... burned all bridges with me. What vestigial enjoyment I get from the series is solely from prior to 2014, when Disney axed the original EU. The movies were never that entertaining to me, and all of my enjoyment from the franchise comes from prior pieces that have more or less been un-personed by Disney. As well, the strategy for annual releases and market oversaturation is just not a cogent marketing strategy in my opinion. Philosophically, I've always found Star Wars to have a limiting (in regards to the movies) dualism to its morality, and statements from George Lucas never clarified it for the better. Star Trek on the other hand presented a lot more complex issues (that were also often socially relevant) that required much more from their solutions than brunt-force violent applications. So... basically the inverse of your statement again: Star Trek is more interesting philosophically/morally/etc, while Star Wars.... isn't better entertainment, so I can't say that Star Wars was better in that aspect. Yo buddy the Star Trek thread is that way bsn.boards.net/thread/13274/star-trekThis thread is about finding out whether people on this forum have the wrong opinion! But, you do know there is a Star Wars thread, right? bsn.boards.net/thread/247/star-wars
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