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Post by snowleopard25 on Nov 29, 2017 2:29:57 GMT
Some of the things that never got fixed in ME:A would really hurt Anthem for PC, like: 1. Lag and rubberbanding on PC that is intermittent and makes the game occasionally unplayable. (Could be peer 2 peer issues, or what?) Other PC coop shooters do not have these issues....
2. Headshots are impossible in ME:A MP (most likely due to hitbox issues and lag) . This is a ridiculous result for any shooter. Anthem will fail compared to other games if headshots don't work.
3. ME:A MP status effects don't work the way they are supposed to. (Cryo ammo is broken, ammo effects cancel out other effects, and there are many other issues.) Since Bioware decided not to fix any of these issues, we have no idea how Anthem will resolve them.
These are just a few of the issues I noted in ME:A MP that would not be acceptable in other coop games like Warframe (free to play!), Destiny 2, or others.
Are there any others?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 29, 2017 2:56:01 GMT
My guesses: No, no, and no.
Those other PC co-op shooters must block players by network quality, or matchmake by quality, or you just got lucky, because all MP games are going to have some amount of lag and rubberbanding, it's unavoidable unless you're playing a LAN game all in the same building. Bad netcode can certainly make the problems worse, but perfect netcode can't eliminate the problem for everyone for all time.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect a non-FPS to have perfect headshot simulation. Even if the aiming mode is essentially first-person, it's difficult to model the physics correctly. The games that do it really well put a ton of effort into gun and bullet simulation. As far as I've seen myself in Bioware games, headshots have very generous hitboxes, so if you are still missing, it probably is a network problem.
Yeah, cryo ammo is definitely broken, that's pretty egregious, I agree. But one effect replacing another is pretty par for the course with Bioware. How did you expect it to work? Be additive? Too easy to exploit.
On the other hand, we don't know that Anthem will have any of these problems. It will have problems, but maybe entirely different kinds of problems, who knows?
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Post by snowleopard25 on Nov 29, 2017 5:45:43 GMT
Anthem uses the same Frostbite engine as ME:A MP.
What makes you think they have solved these problems in Anthem?
I can think of a few other ME:A problems that would probably sink Anthem compared to other coop games...
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 29, 2017 6:32:08 GMT
1) - Peer to Peer is going to have problems like that and dedicated servers are probably never going to happen, otherwise server shutdowns are far more likely down the road. Any online game I have has this problem so it isn't limited to BioWare.
2) - If you have problems with headshots again I think it is due to netcoding or peer to peer, I noticed if I was the host versus someone who joined it was a problem, but I have had the same thing with games like Destiny in the past as well.
3) - If anything BioWare over corrects when they fix issues in their games. So expect to have any type of ammo modifier removed to fix that issue. So you won't have to worry about that.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Nov 29, 2017 8:18:35 GMT
2) no problems here unless on laggy lobby hoster...
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 29, 2017 8:55:20 GMT
Anthem will heal everything.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 29, 2017 16:14:20 GMT
Anthem uses the same Frostbite engine as ME:A MP. What makes you think they have solved these problems in Anthem? I said "no, I don't think Anthem will fix those problems" to all 3.
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Post by Cyonan on Nov 30, 2017 1:21:05 GMT
A lot of the lag related issues are amplified by the fact that ME:A MP uses a peer to peer system. Given that Anthem is supposed to be a "MMO-Lite" then you kind of need dedicated servers. If they find a way to use some kind of broken ass purely peer to peer system, then I'll simply not be playing the game most likely.
The fact that BioWare's games recently have all had problems with things like effects not working properly suggests to me that Anthem will probably have the same issue, though.
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Post by spacev3gan on Dec 1, 2017 0:43:37 GMT
My two cents is: Yes. The reasoning for that are three key factors: the same Developer(s), the same Engine and, since this is as far as know a Co-op only 4-player game, most likely the same P2P networking system. Any of these factors by itself is not inherently flawed (not even P2P provided that there are lag compensation mechanics in place); now when you add them all up, the recipe is potentially disastrous. Moreover, we are forgetting about Bioware's very first Frostbite P2P 4-player Co-op endeavor: DAIMP. This game is exactly the same as MEAMP. We have exactly the same networking bugs, despite the sizable two-and-a-half-year gap in between them. Play both on a 120+ ms ping and they feel pretty much the same half-assed game. Anthem has all elements to be the third installment of this mistake. Some people are saying that the issue here is merely a bad connection with the host - which to some degree can be the case. I however dare say the main issue is other: distance/ping is the real issue. I have played MEAMP and DAIMP on several 100 or 200 mb hosts - if they are not from my region, it doesn't really matter, it is laggy as f*ck. A 5 mb host within a 1,000 km radius is always better than those ones. The "headshot bug" on MEAMP is simply a ping matter, if you are not the host nor reasonably close to the host, they won't register. I myself did this test on a 86 ms ping host, and 60% of the headshots did not register. 86 ms is on the higher side of what you can get by playing with people from the same region. Cross-region is way worse. And since Anthem is unlikely to boast a high-count playerbase, playing cross-region is bound to happen, and issues like the "headshot bug" might be seen again. Now some people assume that Anthem will not be P2P. I have two arguments to defend that it will be: 1) It is not a Competitive PvP game, but rather a 4-player Co-op one thus low ping advantage is not seen as a big deal; 2) Bioware + Frosbite P2P history. So yes, those are my two cents.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 1, 2017 2:21:17 GMT
My guesses: No, no, and no. Those other PC co-op shooters must block players by network quality, or matchmake by quality, or you just got lucky, because all MP games are going to have some amount of lag and rubberbanding, it's unavoidable unless you're playing a LAN game all in the same building. Bad netcode can certainly make the problems worse, but perfect netcode can't eliminate the problem for everyone for all time. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a non-FPS to have perfect headshot simulation. Even if the aiming mode is essentially first-person, it's difficult to model the physics correctly. The games that do it really well put a ton of effort into gun and bullet simulation. As far as I've seen myself in Bioware games, headshots have very generous hitboxes, so if you are still missing, it probably is a network problem. Yeah, cryo ammo is definitely broken, that's pretty egregious, I agree. But one effect replacing another is pretty par for the course with Bioware. How did you expect it to work? Be additive? Too easy to exploit. On the other hand, we don't know that Anthem will have any of these problems. It will have problems, but maybe entirely different kinds of problems, who knows? Despite much truth in your post, ME3MP has absolutely zero issues registering headshots properly unless there is extreme lag. That game was made by BioWare. Also, have you actually played other MP shooters? DAI and MEA, both by BioWare using FB2, are trash garbage compared to other FB2 games regarding "netcode". I think you are wrong. I think this game will have tight gameplay, be well made and designed, and still will be a sales disappointment and the death of BioWare. There is a lot at stake, and they are putting all of their eggs in this basket now - not much choice with the dismal failure of MEA. I hope that I am also wrong, about the death of BioWare part, but it is a fairly logical deduction considering the current strength of the brand and unreasonable EA sales expectations.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 18:34:53 GMT
What puzzled me was that the issues with MEA were so intermittent. Sometimes it played awesome for days on end, sometimes the sound dropped and everything went out of the window. The headshots never bothered me because it's not within my competence, but the sound drops were super-annoying.
Now, the thing is, I am playing a fully SP game, but it requires an on-line connection, which has a long-outdated MP component, and once in a while the thing starts to lag so much even I notice it....
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Post by snowleopard25 on Dec 2, 2017 10:49:04 GMT
Here is one more ME:A problem that would sink Anthem if they can't fix it:
The sound cuts out without warning for the remainder of the match, requiring a game re-start to have sound again. This has been happening continuously to me since the game came out, and the devs have never seen fit to even mention it. It's almost as if they thought that ignoring the problem would make it go away. At first I thought it was just my rig, but I have seen numerous complaints from others, and on other platforms (I am on PC). Now I realize they just don't care... And that would be a problem for Anthem as well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 23:34:38 GMT
Things I expect to see in Anthem (at least on PC) ...
Sound bug (rare in MEA SP, but it exists, far more common in MEA MP ... BF II shares the FB engine and has the bug)
Weapon switching (scroll wheel) requiring two hits a lot of the time to actually switch weapons
Two folks rush up to revive a teammate, both show the revive animation, of course, only one is real, the other is just BS
A pet (Remnant VI) drops down and hovers in front of cover, preventing anyone from using the cover (like in a hack, where choices can be limited)
Status toggles (e.g. turret or VI spawn) requiring two hits a lot of the time
Equivalent of the Cobra (if it exists in Anthem), requiring two hits on the #4 key to bring up a lot of the time (might be the same issue as weapon switch)
Incorrect scoring ... wrong player recording a kill, wrong weapon/power recording a kill or wrong player and weapon/power recording a kill
Getting stomped by an agent holo image ... crap-tastic can kill you, make your melee miss, but killing it gathers you no credit
Off host head shot issues (ME3 MP did it well, but that was a different engine ... this may be a FB issue, not just a BioWare competence issue)
Lobby searches that put you in the same freakin' lobby you rejected (like a combo-tastic APEX mission that rips off your credits earned), 10 15 20 times straight (game is so dead)
Constantly shifting "contextual" action buttons ... including anything mouse cursor crosses ... which you can't activate in a reasonable fashion (this was obviously never tested by QA)
Ghost enemies ... lag related
Menus fade to very dark (HDR related ... non-HDR monitors, HDR turned off?) ... mostly a SP issue, but has invaded MP menus too
Upper displays disappear from view ... can't see how many consumables remain or how many of various power cells remain
Inferno grenades, thrown by an enemy faction, that occasionally show no burning animation off-host ... "why are my shields going down?"
Bogus status call outs by your character (e.g. "I need ammo" or "my shields are broken" or "let's toughen you up" (from a Human Commando) or wrong VA giving voice to the status)
Reload animation and sound completion, off-host, leads actual reload completion by half a beat, with more lag, ammo counter will cycle from full back to empty
Power cool down indicator, off-host, leads actual completion of cool down by half a beat (cool down of the cool down?)
Third person over-the-shoulder view blocks aiming at targets ... not all the time, mind you, just on random missions with random hosts
Bogus network status (too many "four bar" hosts perform like two bar hosts) ... nearly half the four bar hosts are horrible ... most three bar hosts are better on average
Sticking to terrain/objects ... especially with jet packs, trying to jump over terrain
Misfire of jump/jet pack off host
Turning left or right negates the cover directly in front of you
Misfire(?) of cobra RPG ... two direct hits on a silver Krogan Berserker (not the "scary" kind ... the outlaw kind) ... no damage ... bad code, bad design or bad developers?
Scoping or un-scoping, results in your view going into the dirt and not at the target you are aiming at
Anthem equivalent of "biotic blink" being bugged, allowing you to "dash in place" until you resort to running ... or simply die
Anthem equivalent of "Stealth Grid" being bugged off host
Anthem equivalent of "boosters" that you equip, but don't show up when in game
Enemies (breecher) with short, stubby appendages, can melee you from 10 feet (~3M), while a melee specialist (Angara Avenger) can't melee from 6 feet (~2M)
Maps that allow enemies with LOS weapons, that lack cover penetration, to shoot you with no LOS (Nimbus ... I'm looking at you ... but also a few others)
Enemies that clip through solid objects or cover, to shoot you or grab you, but you can't use powers against them (when they are hiding in a wall)
Enemies that pull you out of the playing field ... and you can't get back into the playing field so you're either stuck and don't extract or leave the match
Breaking glass twice to jump through a window (apparently shooting the glass out is a different break glass than melee or trying to dive through the window)
Dorked up key bindings (push-to-talk, anyone?), because the devs used controllers and have no clue how to configure M+KB
Bugged powers that don't work as stated (warp expose)
Rewards that are bugged, so that certain missions always shortchange you (Combo-tastic, I'm looking at you ... Mr 75% credits awarded)*
Bugged weapon mods and ammo powers that don't work as stated (Shilesh Receiver mod, cryo ammo, incendiary ammo)
Unbalanced weapons, undifferentiated weapons, hugely diluted weapon pools with lots of worthless variants ...
Because learning will not take place ... ever.
*When combined with the dilution of the character and weapon pools with tons of crap-ola, short-changing credits earns you a special place in my "go to hell" hall of fame.
Bioware claimed that no beta testing was necessary, because of the most extensive testing in the history of gaming ... this was a bald face lie
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 17, 2017 0:54:41 GMT
[x] working as intended...
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 17, 2017 6:48:24 GMT
My guesses: No, no, and no. Sbip On the other hand, we don't know that Anthem will have any of these problems. It will have problems, but maybe entirely different kinds of problems, who knows? -(_ANTHEM_)-
Agreed on the no, no and no.
Last sentence = Anthem will have absolutely, positively no problems with the MTs system. The money maker is guaranteed to work for EA. For the player? ... not so much.
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Post by PillarBiter on Dec 19, 2017 8:23:13 GMT
Some of the things that never got fixed in ME:A would really hurt Anthem for PC, like: 1. Lag and rubberbanding on PC that is intermittent and makes the game occasionally unplayable. (Could be peer 2 peer issues, or what?) Other PC coop shooters do not have these issues.... 2. Headshots are impossible in ME:A MP (most likely due to hitbox issues and lag) . This is a ridiculous result for any shooter. Anthem will fail compared to other games if headshots don't work. 3. ME:A MP status effects don't work the way they are supposed to. (Cryo ammo is broken, ammo effects cancel out other effects, and there are many other issues.) Since Bioware decided not to fix any of these issues, we have no idea how Anthem will resolve them. These are just a few of the issues I noted in ME:A MP that would not be acceptable in other coop games like Warframe (free to play!), Destiny 2, or others. Are there any others? To me this is more a general question: Will they have a decent network frame (or god forbid, dedicated servers)?
If they do (I would amagine they put money into this, considering it's a 10-year game), all of this should resolve itself.
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