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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 3, 2018 4:32:37 GMT
I'm having difficulty with the fate of Connor on my current play.
Typically, I play a mage, so it doesn't seem too much of a stretch for me to suggest going to the mage tower to seek their aid. In addition, there are lingering feelings against Jowan, plus the typical prohibitions on blood magic, that don't make my mage character inclined to go with that choice.
On my current play, I'm on a Cousland warrior who doesn't know anything about magic, but is educated enough to basically know that blood magic is forbidden, so that doesn't make me inclined to use blood magic in that instance. The other alternative is killing Connor.
To see how it plays out, I decided to do a test run where I chose to kill Connor. The game practically beats you over the head by repeatedly and insistently -- via NPC pleading and continuous dialogue options -- stating that there "must be another way" to get to you hear the option of going to the mage tower. If you ignore those options, at one point Leliana even says, "It just doesn't seem like we're trying very hard," if you attempt to persuade her that killing him is the best option. Even during the final scene where you have the final option of killing Connor, you can elect to stop.
I'm not entirely against going to the mage tower in order to have this perfect solution, but it's poorly implemented in the game because it IS that perfect solution. If you take the time to go to the mages, and if you have to spend even more of that time doing the full mage tower mission, there should be some consequences for that, but there aren't. I wish this wasn't in the game at all, but it is, so I have to decide what to do.
Thoughts?
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 3, 2018 5:42:43 GMT
I've wrestled with this too, because going to fetch the mages is a little too perfect and consequence-free. Connor's saved, Isolde's alive, the village somehow isn't overrun by the undead even though you abandon it for days or weeks (??), and Alistair is happy as a clam. No surprise so many people go that route.
But I think characters who always find the perfect solution are boring, so I try to avoid that. Usually I go the blood magic route because most of my dwarves don't know magic from magic and don't have any prejudice against blood magic in particular - that seems to be a Chantry thing. To them, it's all weird human/elven Fade crap.
If I were playing a Cousland raised in Andrastian society, my first thought would be that it's better to die than become an abomination. My second thought would be for the people of Redcliffe - including many innocent children - who have suffered and died as a result of Connor's possession. My third thought would be that we need Arl Eamon more than we need his family. Pragmatic but true. On the other hand, your Cousland could see that Isolde is pleading for her child's life, that she's willing to die so that he may live... it could remind him of Eleanor, and his feelings could override his Chantry upbringing. Or he may believe that it's Isolde's duty to die for her subjects, who would never have been put in this position if not for their Arlessa.
If you do decide to go to the tower, you can always headcanon that some of your group stayed behind in Redcliffe and that's why the town isn't destroyed by the time you get back.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 3, 2018 9:10:09 GMT
Mostly go to the Circle. I know, it's risky.
Cousland accidentally killed him, and this was good.
Once I did with blood magic. This would be very good, but Jowan probably became Tranquil, and I don't like that.
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Post by mousestalker on Jan 3, 2018 11:37:30 GMT
My wardens typically go to the tower. They've killed the zombies once already and they believe they can repeat the task as many times as needed. So they have no real problem with leaving the screechy lady, creepy boy and Bann Sexy for a time.
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Post by heliosdisciple on Jan 3, 2018 14:44:27 GMT
What I've started doing is going to the Circle and diplomatically annulling it (the option where the First Enchanter lives and willingly surrenders the Circle for inspection) before ever setting foot in Redcliffe.
That way the perfect option is removed, but in-character the Warden never has to do anything goofy like run off to the Tower for days and leave an abomination alone OR be a dick and brush off everybody's attempts to get you to not kill a kid.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jan 3, 2018 17:23:50 GMT
It does feel risky to just leave things as they are, but it just seems like killing an arl's son or using blood magic would be really bad public relations for the wardens, especially when Loghain's already trying to make everyone believe you're evil.
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Post by Sokemis on Jan 3, 2018 23:07:56 GMT
Want to start by saying, I too really wish there was a consequence for going to the mage tower (like half the town dies in another undead attack or something). That being said, my different Wardens made different choices for their own reasons. Tabris, canon Warden {killed Connor} My canon, Tabris, ended up killing Connor (well technically honors Isolde's request to let her be the one to kill Connor). Leaving to go to the tower would take probably at least about a week round-trip and require leaving Connor in the care of Jowan (who is mainly the reason he's possessed in the first place) and/or Teagan (who the demon has already mind controlled once). The demon would have to know that they were leaving to seek a way to get rid of it, so it would try and fight back. If it attacked, those that were left behind may not survive (all of them working together barely defeated the last undead attack). Also, we're only taking the word of the blood mage that started this whole mess that the ritual would even work. Tabris did not want to kill Connor, and it's one of if not the decision she had to make during the Blight that haunts her the most, but she will defend her decision to the end. Did I know there was no consequence for going to the tower? Yes. Did she know that when she made her choice? No. {Side note: I think I must have skipped a dialogue choice with Jowan, because I honestly don't remember the Circle even being offered as a suggestion in that playthrough...} Cousland {went to the Circle} On the other hand, going to the tower was the only choice my Cousland could make. She was raised a devout Andrastian, so killing Isolde to fuel a blood magic ritual was out of the question. And Redcliffe was the first place they went after Lothering, when she was still in mourning (and a little shock) over her family. After having had found her young nephew dead, I don't think - especially at that point, that she would have been able to go through with killing Connor even if she had considered it. I think she knew there was a risk taking the time to go to the circle, but the only other options were options she couldn't and wouldn't take.
Brosca {blood magic} My Brosca has no knowledge of magic. She's willing to take the mage's word/opinion about the blood ritual being the quickest and best option and she has no predisposed prejudice against blood magic. Although she wouldn't have forced Isolde to do it, she wasn't going to stop Isolde if she offered. (Honestly, I think she was a little bit in shock/awe that there was actually a mother willing to sacrifice herself to save her child.) Mahariel {killed Connor} My Mahariel had no qualms about knocking out Isolde and killing Connor to get rid of the demon. But then again she wasn't my most mentally stable Warden, so maybe not the best example... Amell {blood magic} My Amell personally didn't have anything against blood magic in general, as long the blood only came from a willing sacrifice (well only was fully okay with it when it came from the caster, but the amount required here made that not an option). He had a purely academic view of it, seeing it as a just another school of magic. He didn't think he would be very welcome back at the Circle / didn't think Greagoir would let him take a group of mages out of the tower after the way things went down there the day he helped Jowan escape... He fought the demon himself. Aeducan {willing to do blood magic, but went to Circle in the end} My Aeducan probably would have been willing to kill Isolde herself to do the ritual (like Brosca no issues with magic/blood magic and would be nice to get rid of the whiny and insulting woman) - figured Eamon would be more grateful to have his son and heir saved (don't think she fully realized yet at that point that no mages can inherit, not even nobles). However, she ended up going to the Circle in order to make Alistair happy. {Side note, she totally starting playing up to Alistair and made him fall in love with her after she found out about him being a sort-of prince. Figured if she was never going to be made Queen in Orzammar, he might be her ticket to some sort of power topside. She would have fit right into Westeros  } Surana {went to Circle} My Surana is just too sweet and trusting for her own good. Wanted to help without getting anyone killed, and knew the Circle had a way to do so. She just knew the Circle would let the mages leave to help, because it was the right thing to do. (Oh was that poor girl in for a shock when she got to the Circle and talked with her crush Cullen again...) So probably more than you were asking for - but each of my Wardens' rational for going to the circle vs sacrificing Isolde vs killing Connor. ETA: realized after posting just how long my reply got, so going back and putting each of the different Warden's choice/reason under their own spoiler... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 11:37:42 GMT
I've killed Connor twice. The kindest of those was the warden who, when in Lothering, heard that there was trouble in the mage circle. She thought she should get there sharpish so left Redcliffe for later. Taking the advice of the Templars, who she'd been brought up to trust, she left the situation in their hands and was heartbroken to hear they had annulled the circle. She didn't see it as her fault tho, she dealt with the demons then left the Templars to see to the mages, as they've been trained to do. She thought it presumptuous to assume that she knew any better than them. Then obviously that left with blood magic or death for Connor, and as blood magic is bad....  The other, my dwarf, thought the guys in Redcliffe would be fine with the demons. After all Orzammar deals with darkspawn on a daily basis. So off she popped to the circle before ever going to see Connor, cleansing the whole place and leaving no one alive in case they were possessed. She too refused to use blood magic, because magic is that dodgy human thing she doesn't trust, so killed Connor. I hate that Redcliffe (and every other place come to think of it) is dormant when you're away. It kills any sense of tension. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 11:39:13 GMT
Oh, and if you switch companions they'll not give you the huge guilt trip. I think Morrigan, Sten, Zev, Oghren and Shale?? And dog.  |
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Post by tacsear on Jan 4, 2018 22:36:45 GMT
I go to the Circle first, then Redcliffe. This way my character knows that there is help to be found.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 5, 2018 3:48:11 GMT
Oh, and if you switch companions they'll not give you the huge guilt trip. I usually always keep Alistair, regardless of my own class or party makeup, because of the whole grey warden thing. I kept Leliana simply because of the idea of her knowing about the secret passage in DAI. |
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 5, 2018 6:03:54 GMT
I'm pretty sure Alistair tears into you at camp even if he wasn't present when you killed Isolde. Don't know about Connor, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 11:22:11 GMT
I'm pretty sure Alistair tears into you at camp even if he wasn't present when you killed Isolde. Don't know about Connor, though. A true WTF moment in my first run. There he is saying there's nothing that can be done and we're just going to have to kill him, then boom. Gets to camp and loses his shit.  |
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Post by mictlantecuhtli on Jan 6, 2018 14:07:09 GMT
Demon sex is the choice I usually go with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 21:51:27 GMT
Demon sex is the choice I usually go with. Applicable in so many situations. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 10:54:28 GMT
Go to the circle like a moral person  - basically all of my wardens besides for one who killed Connor |
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Post by tacsear on Jan 9, 2018 11:42:45 GMT
Demon sex is the choice I usually go with. Spoken like a true DA player |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 11:49:02 GMT
Demon sex is the choice I usually go with. Spoken like a true DA player Nah, killing Isolde is what a true DA player would do. Because that woman is bloody annoying to listen too.. |
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Post by mictlantecuhtli on Jan 9, 2018 16:33:02 GMT
Spoken like a true DA player Nah, killing Isolde is what a true DA player would do. Because that woman is bloody annoying to listen too.. Abandoning Redcliffe pretty much guarantees she gets punished. The town is the only thing that gives the Guerrin family power, and in the prologue they lose all importance. |
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Post by Sokemis on Jan 9, 2018 23:26:20 GMT
Demon sex is the choice I usually go with. Spoken like a true DA player Nah, killing Isolde is what a true DA player would do. Because that woman is bloody annoying to listen too.. How about killing Isolde to fuel your trip to the Fade for demon sex? |
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 10, 2018 10:34:29 GMT
Nah, killing Isolde is what a true DA player would do. Because that woman is bloody annoying to listen too.. Abandoning Redcliffe pretty much guarantees she gets punished. The town is the only thing that gives the Guerrin family power, and in the prologue they lose all importance. Well, before DA:I (and especially Trespasser) I would have said that Alistair getting the throne means they get back to where they were before Cailan died. Now I think we can safely say that happens no matter who gets the top spot. |
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- basically all of my wardens besides for one who killed Connor 