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Post by javeart on Mar 4, 2017 15:04:13 GMT
Speaking about Solas' enemies and how could they go against Lavellan if they knew about them, just made me remeber how much I love how super non-protective is Solas with her, I'm so happy they didn't play the "I don't wantt to put you in danger" card in the break-up, if there's one good thing about it, it might be that . Ok, there's the "I cannot do that to you" line, but in my head I always downplay that part of his dicourse No, I think Solas and Fenris is one step too far for credibility. Solas is just too wrapped up in the wonder of magic for Fenris to stomach. It was hard enough reconciling Fenris and my mage Hawke but at least he admitted he regarded them as the exception to his rule about mages. I never took the blood mage spec though, which I think should have been a breaker for any romance with him as well. In my minds eye Fenris is the last person you would want anywhere near Solas if you want Solas to survive. Fenris' ability to become incorporeal and pass through solid matter could be the one thing Solas might not expect and I don't think even Solas could survive having his heart ripped out. I agree that's probably too much but, I think Solas could empathize with Fenris experience, ... I think there's potential for a really beatiful story, maybe pushing the limits of unlikeliness, but why should that stop anyone? And I love it when seemingly impossible things happen In fact, the biggest problem I see it's that they're both so awfully atractive that if they get together it might be too much and Thedas may implode or something But, anyway, poor Fenris, he's happier with Hawke for sure
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Post by rowrow on Mar 4, 2017 20:04:45 GMT
I agree that's probably too much but, I think Solas could empathize with Fenris experience, ... I think there's potential for a really beatiful story, maybe pushing the limits of unlikeliness, but why should that stop anyone? And I love it when seemingly impossible things happen In fact, the biggest problem I see it's that they're both so awfully atractive that if they get together it might be too much and Thedas may implode or something But, anyway, poor Fenris, he's happier with Hawke for sure Fascinating scenario ... and in my opinion so wrong, that I feel compelled to imagine all the ways it would fail to get off the ground. I'm sorry Purely on the basis of personalities meeting, I can't see it happening. First, would they even find the other attractive? They're very different in some ways and yet similar in all the wrong ways. And in both cases, I think that identification with the other would probably result in loathing rather than attraction. But assuming that there was an attraction, both of them are not really pursuers. Not Solas as we currently know him, and Fenris not at all. Yet both require pursuing. They are cagey and distrustful at best, and require someone with enough patience and a continued willingness to reach out and feel past the miles of emotional defenses and anger and whatnot and get to the squishy core. But I can't see either of them doing so for others, or at least not for each other. They're both too combative, and even worse, go from anger to outright disdain and contempt way too quickly. You know they'll be arguing most of the time if they can even stand talking to each other, and it's not the kind of argument that would lead to angry sex, it would lead to real mutual disgust and their friends not-so-subtly keeping them apart. And I don't think either of them actually wants a lot of conflict romantically. (Admittedly, I can't speak as well to the rivalmance version of Fenris.) I mean I know some people get a lot of mileage out of the angry romance, but I don't think either of these two would. Both tend to lead with spikey (though Solas is more polite about it) and both require someone else to be the patient or tolerant one at least initially. Solas will respond favourably to kindness faster than Fenris would, but Fenris doesn't really get to kind until you've known him a long time. I imagine Solas might be more inclined to start off sympathetic and to try patience with Fenris, but honestly I think Fenris will exhaust whatever goodwill Solas has towards him super-fast. Fenris would find Solas sketchy as hell half from the start and insufferably preachy/magey/up-his-own-whatever a lot of the time. Solas would make some effort to trying to teach/persuade/draw out Fenris on something or other, only to have Fenris respond with either a grunt or a one-syllable reply that manages to convey that he thinks Solas is an idiot. And we all know how quickly Solas can go from "but please consider this" to "you insufferable moron". And even if they did manage to get a romance off the ground, I doubt it would lead to each tenderly sounding out the other's hurts and past torments. It's more likely to be 'I can't believe how much this guy broods. I mean I know he has every reason, but honestly, I can't handle all his brooding and have enough time for my own brooding as well. We could probably save time by brooding together, but neither of us know how to brood as a shared activity. I'm so ancient and smart that he could never truly understand my issues, and his idea of sharing his pain always seems to involve drunken smashing of wine bottles. Where's a good therapist in Thedas when you need one?' .... Yeah.
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Post by javeart on Mar 6, 2017 11:43:05 GMT
Fascinating scenario ... and in my opinion so wrong, that I feel compelled to imagine all the ways it would fail to get off the ground. I'm sorry Purely on the basis of personalities meeting, I can't see it happening. First, would they even find the other attractive? They're very different in some ways and yet similar in all the wrong ways. And in both cases, I think that identification with the other would probably result in loathing rather than attraction. But assuming that there was an attraction, both of them are not really pursuers. Not Solas as we currently know him, and Fenris not at all. Yet both require pursuing. They are cagey and distrustful at best, and require someone with enough patience and a continued willingness to reach out and feel past the miles of emotional defenses and anger and whatnot and get to the squishy core. But I can't see either of them doing so for others, or at least not for each other. They're both too combative, and even worse, go from anger to outright disdain and contempt way too quickly. You know they'll be arguing most of the time if they can even stand talking to each other, and it's not the kind of argument that would lead to angry sex, it would lead to real mutual disgust and their friends not-so-subtly keeping them apart. And I don't think either of them actually wants a lot of conflict romantically. (Admittedly, I can't speak as well to the rivalmance version of Fenris.) I mean I know some people get a lot of mileage out of the angry romance, but I don't think either of these two would. Both tend to lead with spikey (though Solas is more polite about it) and both require someone else to be the patient or tolerant one at least initially. Solas will respond favourably to kindness faster than Fenris would, but Fenris doesn't really get to kind until you've known him a long time. I imagine Solas might be more inclined to start off sympathetic and to try patience with Fenris, but honestly I think Fenris will exhaust whatever goodwill Solas has towards him super-fast. Fenris would find Solas sketchy as hell half from the start and insufferably preachy/magey/up-his-own-whatever a lot of the time. Solas would make some effort to trying to teach/persuade/draw out Fenris on something or other, only to have Fenris respond with either a grunt or a one-syllable reply that manages to convey that he thinks Solas is an idiot. And we all know how quickly Solas can go from "but please consider this" to "you insufferable moron". And even if they did manage to get a romance off the ground, I doubt it would lead to each tenderly sounding out the other's hurts and past torments. It's more likely to be 'I can't believe how much this guy broods. I mean I know he has every reason, but honestly, I can't handle all his brooding and have enough time for my own brooding as well. We could probably save time by brooding together, but neither of us know how to brood as a shared activity. I'm so ancient and smart that he could never truly understand my issues, and his idea of sharing his pain always seems to involve drunken smashing of wine bottles. Where's a good therapist in Thedas when you need one?' .... Yeah. Oh, no, I actually I agree that it's hard to imagine them together I meant it when I said to gervaise21 that I realized that it's a little too much...I just like the idea nd the fact that it's so highly unlikely makes me like it even more, not less I'm like that, what can I say? maybe, that's why I like magic so much
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2017 8:05:16 GMT
There's couple of things I don't get about Solas. He says that he wants to help the elves, but he despises them and says they're not his people and demeans the Dalish who are trying to reclaim their history that is lost. Now he turns back and wants to tear down the Veil to bring the world of the elves and he's doing the exact thing that Corypheus attempted to destroy the world. That is the part I don't understand about Solas I mean why does he want to destroy the world and at the same time he want to save it by helping the Inquisition? Solas is just a Corypheus 2.0.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 7, 2017 12:46:45 GMT
There's couple of things I don't get about Solas. He says that he wants to help the elves, but he despises them and says they're not his people and demeans the Dalish who are trying to reclaim their history that is lost. Now he turns back and wants to tear down the Veil to bring the world of the elves and he's doing the exact thing that Corypheus attempted to destroy the world. That is the part I don't understand about Solas I mean why does he want to destroy the world and at the same time he want to save it by helping the Inquisition? Solas is just a Corypheus 2.0. I think I'm a little confused about a picture presented here. At first you say you don't understand Solas... then you claim he's just Corypheus 2.0. Well if he's Corypheus 2.0 then his motivation should be fairly clear, yea? Yet it isn't. Plainly because Solas doesn't 'despise' the elves, nor his plan is identical to that of Cory - if it was, Solas wouldn't have joined the Inquisition and worked against him, nor he'd have saved Inquisitor in Trespasser only to give them an opportunity to prove him wrong.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 7, 2017 12:57:43 GMT
There's couple of things I don't get about Solas. He says that he wants to help the elves, but he despises them and says they're not his people and demeans the Dalish who are trying to reclaim their history that is lost. Now he turns back and wants to tear down the Veil to bring the world of the elves and he's doing the exact thing that Corypheus attempted to destroy the world. That is the part I don't understand about Solas I mean why does he want to destroy the world and at the same time he want to save it by helping the Inquisition? Solas is just a Corypheus 2.0. He actually does not despise the elves in general. He holds the Dalish in contempt because they think they're right about their history (they're not entirely wrong) and some of the Dalish tend to be quite arrogant about it. And modern elves are not his people in as much as they're not ageless and all with magical ability - they're not what he remembers elves as being before the Veil. Corypheus wanted to rip open the Veil, enter the Black City and make himself a god so he could rule over everything. Solas wants to remove the Veil entirely and thus return the world to how it had been originally - with the unfortunate side effect of everyone dying (or so he believes). The motives are important and note that neither Corypheus nor Solas actually *want* to destroy the world or kill everyone. However, regardless of his motives or ideals, Solas does need to be stopped because why even have the game if everyone is going to die anyway. =p Edit to add: One of the things I find interesting is Solas appears (from what I can tell) to not have anticipated the results of putting the Veil up, i.e. what happened to the elves. So I'm kind of curious why he's so sure of what will happen if he removes the Veil. I mean, yeah he's had quite a long time to think about it but I doubt he's run any test cases heh.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2017 13:15:28 GMT
There's couple of things I don't get about Solas. He says that he wants to help the elves, but he despises them and says they're not his people and demeans the Dalish who are trying to reclaim their history that is lost. Now he turns back and wants to tear down the Veil to bring the world of the elves and he's doing the exact thing that Corypheus attempted to destroy the world. That is the part I don't understand about Solas I mean why does he want to destroy the world and at the same time he want to save it by helping the Inquisition? Solas is just a Corypheus 2.0. I think I'm a little confused about a picture presented here. At first you say you don't understand Solas... then you claim he's just Corypheus 2.0. Well if he's Corypheus 2.0 then his motivation should be fairly clear, yea? Yet it isn't. Plainly because Solas doesn't 'despise' the elves, nor his plan is identical to that of Cory - if it was, Solas wouldn't have joined the Inquisition and worked against him, nor he'd have saved Inquisitor in Trespasser only to give them an opportunity to prove him wrong. But why he wants to tear down the Veil and just allowed Corypheus to carry out his plan? And Solas is just another Corypheus because he wants to destroy the world just like Cory. The writers are inconsistent with their storytelling with that one and he does looks at elves like they're beneath him when he refuses to tell the Dalish Inquisitor about elven history and culture and he's the reason why the elves lost everything.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2017 13:26:56 GMT
There's couple of things I don't get about Solas. He says that he wants to help the elves, but he despises them and says they're not his people and demeans the Dalish who are trying to reclaim their history that is lost. Now he turns back and wants to tear down the Veil to bring the world of the elves and he's doing the exact thing that Corypheus attempted to destroy the world. That is the part I don't understand about Solas I mean why does he want to destroy the world and at the same time he want to save it by helping the Inquisition? Solas is just a Corypheus 2.0. He actually does not despise the elves in general. He holds the Dalish in contempt because they think they're right about their history (they're not entirely wrong) and some of the Dalish tend to be quite arrogant about it. And modern elves are not his people in as much as they're not ageless and all with magical ability - they're not what he remembers elves as being before the Veil. Corypheus wanted to rip open the Veil, enter the Black City and make himself a god so he could rule over everything. Solas wants to remove the Veil entirely and thus return the world to how it had been originally - with the unfortunate side effect of everyone dying (or so he believes). The motives are important and note that neither Corypheus nor Solas actually *want* to destroy the world or kill everyone. However, regardless of his motives or ideals, Solas does need to be stopped because why even have the game if everyone is going to die anyway. =p Edit to add: One of the things I find interesting is Solas appears (from what I can tell) to not have anticipated the results of putting the Veil up, i.e. what happened to the elves. So I'm kind of curious why he's so sure of what will happen if he removes the Veil. I mean, yeah he's had quite a long time to think about it but I doubt he's run any test cases heh. He knows the outcome would be catastrophic if he teared down the Veil but how it would fix the problem and he didn't think it was wrong? I mean come on he messed up back then by putting the Veil in the first place, and he's fucking up again without stop and try to find another way.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 7, 2017 14:03:30 GMT
I think I'm a little confused about a picture presented here. At first you say you don't understand Solas... then you claim he's just Corypheus 2.0. Well if he's Corypheus 2.0 then his motivation should be fairly clear, yea? Yet it isn't. Plainly because Solas doesn't 'despise' the elves, nor his plan is identical to that of Cory - if it was, Solas wouldn't have joined the Inquisition and worked against him, nor he'd have saved Inquisitor in Trespasser only to give them an opportunity to prove him wrong. But why he wants to tear down the Veil and just allowed Corypheus to carry out his plan? And Solas is just another Corypheus because he wants to destroy the world just like Cory. His plas to tear the Veil are of entirely different nature than that of Cory and no - he didn't allow Cory to carry out his plan. Even during Inquisition he has described the explosion and subsequent Breach as an accident. Neither Solas nor Cory expected what happened at the Conclave (or at least the scope of it). Up until reveal in Haven it's reasonable to suspect that Solas didn't even know that the leader of Venatori was in fact a Blighted nightmare - merely a power-hungry Vint. And Solas's intention wasn't allowing Cory to use his Orb as he pleases, but to kill the bastard (which, technically, happened - it was Cory's secret talent of body-hopping that allowed him to survive). And no - Solas isn't like Corypheus. In fact, it wasn't Corypheu's plan to destroy the world, but to reach the Black City at all costs and become the god. He simply didn't seem to care about destruction - only to sate his desire to become divinity and lead the world. Solas's plans and motivations are entirely different - not only he isn't particularly interested in becoming a god, he openly denounces being one. He wants to tear down the Veil, because ultimately the state of the world as it is now is not natural and - from his perspective - hurts people more than it helps them ... You know, I don't really think it's fair to say that "writers are inconsistent" just because there's a portion of story you don't understand or confuse the details. First off - he doesn't look at all elves like they're beneath him; he has a beef with Dalish, who are a mere subset of elves and who make certain claims about history or about who is a 'true elf'. Also - when does Solas "refuses to tell the Dalish Inquisitor about elven history and culture"? The Dalish elves can ask Solas about elven history or culture as early as first meeting in Haven - unlike Inquisitors of other races, that have to wait for options to ask abut history or elves to unlock after Halamshiral. And unless they're hostile to Solas or fail to make an impression, Solas is happy to share portions of his knowledge and every Inky gets approval so long as they're curious an ask him questions. ... Or do you mean that Solas should just spill the beans and tell everyone the truth about himself and what happened in the past?
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 7, 2017 14:12:17 GMT
One of the things I find interesting is Solas appears (from what I can tell) to not have anticipated the results of putting the Veil up, i.e. what happened to the elves. So I'm kind of curious why he's so sure of what will happen if he removes the Veil. I mean, yeah he's had quite a long time to think about it but I doubt he's run any test cases heh. Even Blackwall - an inherently non-magical person - figured out (through simple analogy of water and dam) what could happen to magical folks and their civilization if suddenly the magic has dried up. So I'm fairly confident that Solas knew what would happen, even if he couldn't have predicted everything - probably because there was no time for 'test cases' at that time as well, what with Mythal's murder and probable race against time to stop Evanuris from whatever they've been trying to do. As for why he's so sure what would happen if he removes the Veil... well - probably because the Veilless world is the world's natural state. So if you return the back to its natural state, it's likely that - eventually - things should fall back into place, close enough to how they were before.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2017 19:53:34 GMT
But why he wants to tear down the Veil and just allowed Corypheus to carry out his plan? And Solas is just another Corypheus because he wants to destroy the world just like Cory. His plas to tear the Veil are of entirely different nature than that of Cory and no - he didn't allow Cory to carry out his plan. Even during Inquisition he has described the explosion and subsequent Breach as an accident. Neither Solas nor Cory expected what happened at the Conclave (or at least the scope of it). Up until reveal in Haven it's reasonable to suspect that Solas didn't even know that the leader of Venatori was in fact a Blighted nightmare - merely a power-hungry Vint. And Solas's intention wasn't allowing Cory to use his Orb as he pleases, but to kill the bastard (which, technically, happened - it was Cory's secret talent of body-hopping that allowed him to survive). And no - Solas isn't like Corypheus. In fact, it wasn't Corypheu's plan to destroy the world, but to reach the Black City at all costs and become the god. He simply didn't seem to care about destruction - only to sate his desire to become divinity and lead the world. Solas's plans and motivations are entirely different - not only he isn't particularly interested in becoming a god, he openly denounces being one. He wants to tear down the Veil, because ultimately the state of the world as it is now is not natural and - from his perspective - hurts people more than it helps them ... You know, I don't really think it's fair to say that "writers are inconsistent" just because there's a portion of story you don't understand or confuse the details. First off - he doesn't look at all elves like they're beneath him; he has a beef with Dalish, who are a mere subset of elves and who make certain claims about history or about who is a 'true elf'. Also - when does Solas "refuses to tell the Dalish Inquisitor about elven history and culture"? The Dalish elves can ask Solas about elven history or culture as early as first meeting in Haven - unlike Inquisitors of other races, that have to wait for options to ask abut history or elves to unlock after Halamshiral. And unless they're hostile to Solas or fail to make an impression, Solas is happy to share portions of his knowledge and every Inky gets approval so long as they're curious an ask him questions. ... Or do you mean that Solas should just spill the beans and tell everyone the truth about himself and what happened in the past? I know they have different motives but the have one thing in common is to tear down the Veil and the thing is why Solas wants to tear it down but the same time he want to help the Inquisition save the world twice. He got to pick one or the other he can't choose both.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 20:10:35 GMT
His plas to tear the Veil are of entirely different nature than that of Cory and no - he didn't allow Cory to carry out his plan. Even during Inquisition he has described the explosion and subsequent Breach as an accident. Neither Solas nor Cory expected what happened at the Conclave (or at least the scope of it). Up until reveal in Haven it's reasonable to suspect that Solas didn't even know that the leader of Venatori was in fact a Blighted nightmare - merely a power-hungry Vint. And Solas's intention wasn't allowing Cory to use his Orb as he pleases, but to kill the bastard (which, technically, happened - it was Cory's secret talent of body-hopping that allowed him to survive). And no - Solas isn't like Corypheus. In fact, it wasn't Corypheu's plan to destroy the world, but to reach the Black City at all costs and become the god. He simply didn't seem to care about destruction - only to sate his desire to become divinity and lead the world. Solas's plans and motivations are entirely different - not only he isn't particularly interested in becoming a god, he openly denounces being one. He wants to tear down the Veil, because ultimately the state of the world as it is now is not natural and - from his perspective - hurts people more than it helps them ... You know, I don't really think it's fair to say that "writers are inconsistent" just because there's a portion of story you don't understand or confuse the details. First off - he doesn't look at all elves like they're beneath him; he has a beef with Dalish, who are a mere subset of elves and who make certain claims about history or about who is a 'true elf'. Also - when does Solas "refuses to tell the Dalish Inquisitor about elven history and culture"? The Dalish elves can ask Solas about elven history or culture as early as first meeting in Haven - unlike Inquisitors of other races, that have to wait for options to ask abut history or elves to unlock after Halamshiral. And unless they're hostile to Solas or fail to make an impression, Solas is happy to share portions of his knowledge and every Inky gets approval so long as they're curious an ask him questions. ... Or do you mean that Solas should just spill the beans and tell everyone the truth about himself and what happened in the past? I know they have different motives but the have one thing in common is to tear down the Veil and the thing is why Solas wants to tear it down but the same time he want to help the Inquisition save the world twice. He got to pick one or the other he can't choose both. Corypheus I believe didn't actual want to tear down the Veil, he just wanted to enter the Fade so he could sit in the 'Golden City' that had remained empty. The Breach and all that was more a side effect to his plans. Now for Solas, he wanted the Veil gone completely, not torn. As we got to witness in game and from codex entries on the subject, having tears and a giant hole in the Veil was a big cluster fuck that generated countless problems. So Solas was more of a mind to help mend it during Inquisition because he didn't have the power to rip it all away. Remember Solas is a character of grays and one of his beefs is causing undue suffering, which a Breach in essence was. Cutting the Veil away in one go, while violent and chaotic, would have been over quickly instead of a lingering suffering like what the Breach was doing.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 7, 2017 21:34:40 GMT
I know they have different motives but the have one thing in common is to tear down the Veil and the thing is why Solas wants to tear it down but the same time he want to help the Inquisition save the world twice. He got to pick one or the other he can't choose both. Of course he can choose both - because the Breach is obviously NOT the way he wants to get rid of the Veil.
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Post by Elessara on Mar 7, 2017 23:33:13 GMT
He actually does not despise the elves in general. He holds the Dalish in contempt because they think they're right about their history (they're not entirely wrong) and some of the Dalish tend to be quite arrogant about it. And modern elves are not his people in as much as they're not ageless and all with magical ability - they're not what he remembers elves as being before the Veil. Corypheus wanted to rip open the Veil, enter the Black City and make himself a god so he could rule over everything. Solas wants to remove the Veil entirely and thus return the world to how it had been originally - with the unfortunate side effect of everyone dying (or so he believes). The motives are important and note that neither Corypheus nor Solas actually *want* to destroy the world or kill everyone. However, regardless of his motives or ideals, Solas does need to be stopped because why even have the game if everyone is going to die anyway. =p Edit to add: One of the things I find interesting is Solas appears (from what I can tell) to not have anticipated the results of putting the Veil up, i.e. what happened to the elves. So I'm kind of curious why he's so sure of what will happen if he removes the Veil. I mean, yeah he's had quite a long time to think about it but I doubt he's run any test cases heh. He knows the outcome would be catastrophic if he teared down the Veil but how it would fix the problem and he didn't think it was wrong? I mean come on he messed up back then by putting the Veil in the first place, and he's fucking up again without stop and try to find another way. Did he mess up by putting the Veil up in the first place? We don't know. Solas says that every other option was worse. Do we take him at his word? I don't know. We don't know exactly what was going on back then other than Solas said the Evanuris were going to destroy the world and putting up the Veil was actually the best option at the time. We have so little information about what exactly was taking place. And maybe the whole point of the next game(s) will be finding another way.
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CapricornSun
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Post by CapricornSun on Mar 8, 2017 15:09:44 GMT
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Post by Julilla on Mar 8, 2017 18:03:32 GMT
Sunny, the stuff you bring us makes me squee! Thank you so much!
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 8, 2017 22:40:24 GMT
He knows the outcome would be catastrophic if he teared down the Veil but how it would fix the problem and he didn't think it was wrong? I mean come on he messed up back then by putting the Veil in the first place, and he's fucking up again without stop and try to find another way. Did he mess up by putting the Veil up in the first place? We don't know. Solas says that every other option was worse. Do we take him at his word? I don't know. We don't know exactly what was going on back then other than Solas said the Evanuris were going to destroy the world and putting up the Veil was actually the best option at the time. We have so little information about what exactly was taking place. And maybe the whole point of the next game(s) will be finding another way. It was poorly written on their part in my opinion and if I were him I just gather all that I can and move to another place and start anew and that's all he could do.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 8, 2017 22:58:25 GMT
Of course he can choose both - because the Breach is obviously NOT the way he wants to get rid of the Veil. Yeah, the original plan was for the Orb to be unlocked and the resulting explosion kill Corypheus, allowing Solas to swoop in and recover the Orb. The Breach was never supposed to happen and it's presence is clearly presented as a major obstacle that Solas needs gone if he has any hope of completing his plans. The Breach seems to have instead been the result of Corypheus' attempts to tear open the Veil while unlocking it, only for the future Inquisitor to disrupt the ritual before it was complete. The magic went wild, the explosion destroyed the mountain and the tear in the Veil began to grow out of control, hence causing the Breach. Solas' side missions in the game involve finding Elven artefacts and attempting to measure the Veil's strength in various locations around Thedas. His laboratory in the Crossroads likewise shows that he's working on complex equations relating to how to affect the Veil. This suggests his plan may be to remove it all at once, attempting something I've speculated before as being akin to a controlled demolition. Corypheus' method on the other hand was far more crude, having all the finesse of smacking the Veil with a sledgehammer until it gave way. Solas in the Dark Future explains that the uncontrolled expansion of the Breach caused the Fade to bleed into and tear apart Southern Thedas. This eventually lead to the Veil "shattering" completely, leaving no barrier between the two planes of existence. As he refers to this future as an "abomination", this suggests that this was most definitely not the outcome he had in mind. This can be interpreted as Future!Solas either being as horrified at seeing his plan realised and the catastrophic devastation it would cause, or believing that the Breach threw a spanner in the works and lead the Veil to come down improperly. When he comments "if there is any way to save them", he's likely talking about his People and his plan to restore the Elves. He may be hoping that once the Inquisitor negates this timeline by closing the Breach and stopping Corypheus, that will allow his past self to remove the Veil and restore his people without any complications.
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Post by ellehaym on Mar 8, 2017 23:00:42 GMT
I can't help but wonder if Solas' followers were supposed to wake him up, but due to the chaos that putting the Veil cause, they were hunted and killed and the remaining ones went into hiding ... leaving only the Mask of Fen'harel (seen in DA:Redemption). P
The mask does tear the Veil, too bad it was destroyed, but maybe it acted like a watered down version of the Orb?
I don't find it a mere coincidence that the mask can tear the veil when it was Fen'harel that also created the Veil
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 8, 2017 23:25:55 GMT
Of course he can choose both - because the Breach is obviously NOT the way he wants to get rid of the Veil. Yeah, the original plan was for the Orb to be unlocked and the resulting explosion kill Corypheus, allowing Solas to swoop in and recover the Orb. The Breach was never supposed to happen and it's presence is clearly presented as a major obstacle that Solas needs gone if he has any hope of completing his plans. What's more, he told us in Trespasser that the initial plan was to regain the unlocked Orb, wield the Anchor, cross the Veil to the Fade and tear it from the outside, so to speak. Yet the Breach and any other tearing happened from within, not from the Fade's side - that in itself shows the difference between Solas's plans and results of Corypheus' meddling. I don't think either Cory nor Solas expected that kind of explosion. In fact, when we're heading towards the Breach in the prologue, Solas tells us that holes in the Fade can happen 'if enough magic is brought to bear' and later in Haven he tells us that the whole thing must've been an accident. Hence even if Solas expected some sort of explosion to happen, the force of it was a surprise. The question, of course, remains how much Inquisitor disrupting the ritual has had affected the turn of events - but considering what happened, we can't exclude the possibility that the cataclysm ad its size could be the direct result of this disruption. ... In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's exactly what happened, considering that it'd be convenient narratively, in terms of parallels between Inquisitor and Solas - a snap decision made during a difficult, if confusing, situation that resulted in a catastrophe that had cost a lot of lives, but ultimately saved many others. Well... it didn't. Not entirely - if it did, then the rifts we encountered when travelling through Redcliffe castle wouldn't have been possible... plainly because there would be no Veil to make rifts in Hence Corypheu's actions didn't get rid of the Veil entirely, and its possible that its 'shattered' remains is what had made the state of the world as bad as it was. Needless to say, it's very likely the opposite of what Solas wants - and the only thing that seems obvious here is that tearing of the Veil, and doing so successfully, is a much more complicated process than just poking holes in it and letting them spread. A controlled demolition versus chaotic destruction is a good analogy here.
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uirebhiril
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Post by uirebhiril on Mar 8, 2017 23:49:01 GMT
It was poorly written on their part in my opinion and if I were him I just gather all that I can and move to another place and start anew and that's all he could do. See, we would think that, being the player and working within our own current sensibilities. But then you take into account that Solas is thousands of years old, was there at the start of it all, and saw everything first-hand. He clearly has knowledge we do not, and is acting on that information. Our tender little protagonist might be badass enough to save the world from a sudden threat, and might even be able to find solutions if we were in the know, but truly? There's no way the Inquisitor could come close to having the understanding Solas does about any of it. I doubt the answer to saving anyone, or even everyone, is just that Solas take his ball (lol) and his people and go somewhere else. Casting it as poor writing when we are still missing half the chapters is kind of silly. Story's not done yet.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 9, 2017 0:00:17 GMT
It was poorly written on their part in my opinion and if I were him I just gather all that I can and move to another place and start anew and that's all he could do. See, we would think that, being the player and working within our own current sensibilities. But then you take into account that Solas is thousands of years old, was there at the start of it all, and saw everything first-hand. He clearly has knowledge we do not, and is acting on that information. Our tender little protagonist might be badass enough to save the world from a sudden threat, and might even be able to find solutions if we were in the know, but truly? There's no way the Inquisitor could come close to having the understanding Solas does about any of it. I doubt the answer to saving anyone, or even everyone, is just that Solas take his ball (lol) and his people and go somewhere else. Casting it as poor writing when we are still missing half the chapters is kind of silly. Story's not done yet. He's not incomprehensible he just a screwup and I believe that everything happens for a reason and all the signs tell him to stop like the spirit he rescued from mages to tell him to let go, and the orb is destroyed to prevent him to tear down the Veil after Corypheus was defeated. All of that is gearing towards him to let go and look at his mistakes and atone for them by helping the elves.
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uirebhiril
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Post by uirebhiril on Mar 9, 2017 0:18:02 GMT
He's not incomprehensible he just a screwup and I believe that everything happens for a reason and all the signs tell him to stop like the spirit he rescued from mages to tell him to let go, and the orb is destroyed to prevent him to tear down the Veil after Corypheus was defeated. All of that is gearing towards him to let go and look at his mistakes and atone for them by helping the elves. Again, this is working with your sensibilities and the narrative you've made in your own mind. Without a doubt, the story that Gaider/Weekes/rest of the team have laid out for us to play through follows a different narrative with totally different outcomes and reasons for why the orb broke or how Solas will continue his journey in the next game. Any of us can think up reasons for why a thing happened a certain way, but that doesn't make it universal.
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