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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Apr 12, 2017 2:49:38 GMT
Realistically my Lavellan will try to save him first but if there is no other way? Than to put it simply, yes she'll kill him, she's no pushover. I can't say the outcome will be good for her afterwards though; losing her entire clan, Vallaslin and finally the man she loves at her own hands, she'll probably kill herself and be done with it after she's sure the world and her friends are safe. So, we making the Romeo and Juliet club? I can picture an epic remake of the tragedy with Solas and Lavellan as the protagonists. *gasp* that was fanfic idea... And whenever you make a fanfic I'll gladly be there to read it! I wasn't even thinking of Romeo and Juliet when I wrote that but it is similar now that you mention it . I don't usually like to head canon my character killing themselves but It's just that my poor Lavellan has been put through the ringer with literally nothing going right for her and without a family support system of loved ones, I can't imagine her wanting to go on. Now my second Lavellan still has her family so she has people to live for and my m/Lavellan has Cass. Really, it's all the people in my life that make mine worthwhile and I can't help but put it into my characters sometimes.
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 12, 2017 2:51:23 GMT
Funny you should mention Qunari. After my Cadash playthrough, I'm thinking of playing a Qunari hippie. "They keep misinterpreting Koslun's words! Koslun taught us to be in harmony with nature and leave others in peace, man. All these warmongers aren't true Qunari, they're just using it to, like, keep everyone in line." Not sure what race they'll be yet, but slightly leaning toward elf, just so I can be amused by Solas romancing a Qunari. Hahahahaha I love your style! Somehow I always try to play to the tropes of the given race I choose, but my elves at least are all charming/snarky smooth-talkers no matter what. I just enjoy the idea of going to Halamshiral as a Dalish and knocking everyone's socks off. Oh man, me too. Even though Viking!Lavellan had no experience with the Orlesian game, she's been around the block long enough to know the moves. She taught several generations of hunters, she knows all the tricks to manipulate errrr gently nudge youngsters in the right direction. Half the time she was just being the nosy great-aunt of the party. Gaining blackmail secrets was just a side benefit, haha.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 12, 2017 3:06:20 GMT
Realistically my Lavellan will try to save him first but if there is no other way? Than to put it simply, yes she'll kill him, she's no pushover. I can't say the outcome will be good for her afterwards though; losing her entire clan, Vallaslin and finally the man she loves at her own hands, she'll probably kill herself and be done with it after she's sure the world and her friends are safe. So, we making the Romeo and Juliet club? I can picture an epic remake of the tragedy with Solas and Lavellan as the protagonists. *gasp* that was fanfic idea... ...Romeo and Juliet were foolish teenagers who barely knew each other >.>''' Tristan and Ysolde fits them both a bit better, albeit not perfect.
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Post by Gwyvian on Apr 12, 2017 4:15:06 GMT
So, we making the Romeo and Juliet club? I can picture an epic remake of the tragedy with Solas and Lavellan as the protagonists. *gasp* that was fanfic idea... And whenever you make a fanfic I'll gladly be there to read it! I wasn't even thinking of Romeo and Juliet when I wrote that but it is similar now that you mention it . I don't usually like to head canon my character killing themselves but It's just that my poor Lavellan has been put through the ringer with literally nothing going right for her and without a family support system of loved ones, I can't imagine her wanting to go on. Now my second Lavellan still has her family so she has people to live for and my m/Lavellan has Cass. Really, it's all the people in my life that make mine worthwhile and I can't help but put it into my characters sometimes. Yeah, I got hit pretty hard with my Lavellan, I think sometime around tha valeslin removal scene I felt like she broke, throughout she was kind of a champion of the Dalish in my canon PT and I imagined that this was one bitter beef she had with Solas - the Well and the valeslin and the breakup just sort of crushed this identity she had been feeding so much energy into. I really liked the way the whole thing was designed overall, considering, at that moment I feel like she became a new type of elf, but that kind of stuff puts lasting scars in your heart. After Trespasser I think that with all the shit she went through, I feel like dying together would be a bittersweet fulfillment that sends a powerful message to her people, and to Thedas in general, so I would maybe even go canon on the Romeo and Juliet. Normally I don't like my characters to be killed off, but there have been notable exceptions - Shepard for instance, I was literally just trembling by the end, my character was just overwhelmed and overused, spent, I wanted her to die and finally find peace. I could see that happening to my Lavellan, too, considering all the angst Solas and the Inquisition combined have caused her; she's crossed over to the Fade multiple times, seen things no one else has, faced down ultimate horrors and then her only pillars of support, her identity and Solas, came tumbling down. All my other Inquisitors are lively bastards that would probably do anything to keep on going and have fun, though.
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Post by Gwyvian on Apr 12, 2017 4:24:12 GMT
So, we making the Romeo and Juliet club? I can picture an epic remake of the tragedy with Solas and Lavellan as the protagonists. *gasp* that was fanfic idea... ...Romeo and Juliet were foolish teenagers who barely knew each other >.>''' Tristan and Ysolde fits them both a bit better, albeit not perfect. And that's terrible? Their story isn't any less compelling, tragic or beautiful for being teenagers; their tragedy is in how something as beautiful and wonderful as falling madly in love for the first time is hampered by rage and hate that they don't even identify with. One of the reasons why it is so heartbreaking is because it speaks to a lot of people and if there is anything Shakespeare is good at, it's taking the basic archetypes you see in everyday people all the time and creating immortal stories that everyone can relate to. Tristan and Isolde is no less tragic and beautiful, but it's basically playing on the same trope - as are many such stories, the characters, settings and circumstances may be different, but which one you prefer I think boils down to a matter of taste.
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Post by Gwyvian on Apr 12, 2017 4:25:18 GMT
Hahahahaha I love your style! Somehow I always try to play to the tropes of the given race I choose, but my elves at least are all charming/snarky smooth-talkers no matter what. I just enjoy the idea of going to Halamshiral as a Dalish and knocking everyone's socks off. Oh man, me too. Even though Viking!Lavellan had no experience with the Orlesian game, she's been around the block long enough to know the moves. She taught several generations of hunters, she knows all the tricks to manipulate errrr gently nudge youngsters in the right direction. Half the time she was just being the nosy great-aunt of the party. Gaining blackmail secrets was just a side benefit, haha. Basically Viking!Lavellan just rules everyone, period.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 12, 2017 4:29:19 GMT
...Romeo and Juliet were foolish teenagers who barely knew each other >.>''' Tristan and Ysolde fits them both a bit better, albeit not perfect. And that's terrible? Their story isn't any less compelling, tragic or beautiful for being teenagers; their tragedy is in how something as beautiful and wonderful as falling madly in love for the first time is hampered by rage and hate that they don't even identify with. One of the reasons why it is so heartbreaking is because it speaks to a lot of people and if there is anything Shakespeare is good at, it's taking the basic archetypes you see in everyday people all the time and creating immortal stories that everyone can relate to. Tristan and Isolde is no less tragic and beautiful, but it's basically playing on the same trope - as are many such stories, the characters, settings and circumstances may be different, but which one you prefer I think boils down to a matter of taste. Yes, but we're not talking about something as general archetypes, buts specific example utilizing a specific archetype. And as tragic or compelling R&J may be... they still remain just teenagers who barely knew each other Such specific conditions are just not applicable to relationship between Inky and Solas, as much as 'star-crossed lovers' archetype is.
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Post by Gwyvian on Apr 12, 2017 4:36:10 GMT
And that's terrible? Their story isn't any less compelling, tragic or beautiful for being teenagers; their tragedy is in how something as beautiful and wonderful as falling madly in love for the first time is hampered by rage and hate that they don't even identify with. One of the reasons why it is so heartbreaking is because it speaks to a lot of people and if there is anything Shakespeare is good at, it's taking the basic archetypes you see in everyday people all the time and creating immortal stories that everyone can relate to. Tristan and Isolde is no less tragic and beautiful, but it's basically playing on the same trope - as are many such stories, the characters, settings and circumstances may be different, but which one you prefer I think boils down to a matter of taste. Yes, but we're not talking about something as general archetypes, buts specific example utilizing a specific archetype. And as tragic or compelling R&J may be... they still remain just teenagers who barely knew each other Such specific conditions are just not applicable to relationship between Inky and Solas, as much as 'star-crossed lovers' archetype is. Well, I wasn't thinking of that much of a direct parallel, to be honest. I was more curious about restructuring their romance as if it were a Shakespearean play, the archetype in that abstract sense means that the template I chose almost doesn't matter. I.e. what I'm trying to say is, I like the basic story and setting for Solas and Lavellan, I'm wouldn't write them literally as teenagers, so however you feel about Romeo and Juliet as characters doesn't apply.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Apr 12, 2017 10:45:46 GMT
...Romeo and Juliet were foolish teenagers who barely knew each other >.>''' Tristan and Ysolde fits them both a bit better, albeit not perfect. And that's terrible? Their story isn't any less compelling, tragic or beautiful for being teenagers; their tragedy is in how something as beautiful and wonderful as falling madly in love for the first time is hampered by rage and hate that they don't even identify with. One of the reasons why it is so heartbreaking is because it speaks to a lot of people and if there is anything Shakespeare is good at, it's taking the basic archetypes you see in everyday people all the time and creating immortal stories that everyone can relate to. Tristan and Isolde is no less tragic and beautiful, but it's basically playing on the same trope - as are many such stories, the characters, settings and circumstances may be different, but which one you prefer I think boils down to a matter of taste. That's all well said. I would say their being so young is what makes their story compelling. They're making grand gestures of love while they're still so naive and, at least in Romeo's case, fickle. I'm not a fan of Romeo and Juliet's story, I've had a cynical distaste for it since I was forced to read it my sophomore year of high school, so much of its beauty is lost on me, but you do sell it quite well. Solas and Lavellan already have the star crossed lovers thing going for them... and the tragedy. Picturing the two of them dying as wastefully as Romeo and Juliet did is depressing, though.
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Post by uirebhiril on Apr 12, 2017 18:08:38 GMT
Hamlet is way better than Romeo and Juliet anyway. I'm less concerned over if my Lavellan will have to decide to kill Solas than I am by the idea that the story will wrap up in such a simple fashion. I'm expecting something more complex and would be bored by "kill/save y/n" at the climax. And really, whatever the outcome will be will have to be the same for every player if it means carrying the story, so if you off Solas but, say, the Veil is coming down anyway than what was the point. I have faith in the DA team, but... still a concern. And I don't know that I can fully answer the question without seeing the full context. My Lavellan is a bigger picture kind of person. Adaar... not so much. I really want to see how she handles it all.
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Post by CapricornSun on Apr 12, 2017 19:25:31 GMT
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 13, 2017 0:05:38 GMT
*pops in from the Heleus Cluster* So, tell me how your Lavellans feel about the worst outcome. Would they kill Solas if there were no other way to stop him? I know my Lavellan would, if it was truly necessary and there was no avoiding it. She'd give her own life first to avoid it, but she'd do it. The real question when/if the time comes is whether *I* can kill Solas. lol I mean, I let Anders live in DA2. I headcanoned that it was b/c my Marian couldn't bring herself to kill her former friend, even with all he'd done and the threat he could continue to pose. But really, *I* just couldn't do it, for those reasons. I was MAD at him (Still am. Really dislike Anders.), but I Just. Couldn't. Do it. Sat there for like 20 minutes the first time arguing with myself. Then on replay, you throw in Sebastian (who I didn't recruit the first playthrough and really liked by the end) and, even with the added Seb-related consequences of letting Anders live, I STILL couldn't do it. Objectively, I felt I probably should, but I just couldn't. So, A+ for the roleplaying, I guess, since I decided that was also how Hawke felt. But if Thedas' fate is riding on that kind of decision this time, one of us is in for a real trip. *runs back to Andromeda*
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Post by Gwyvian on Apr 13, 2017 0:51:59 GMT
And that's terrible? Their story isn't any less compelling, tragic or beautiful for being teenagers; their tragedy is in how something as beautiful and wonderful as falling madly in love for the first time is hampered by rage and hate that they don't even identify with. One of the reasons why it is so heartbreaking is because it speaks to a lot of people and if there is anything Shakespeare is good at, it's taking the basic archetypes you see in everyday people all the time and creating immortal stories that everyone can relate to. Tristan and Isolde is no less tragic and beautiful, but it's basically playing on the same trope - as are many such stories, the characters, settings and circumstances may be different, but which one you prefer I think boils down to a matter of taste. That's all well said. I would say their being so young is what makes their story compelling. They're making grand gestures of love while they're still so naive and, at least in Romeo's case, fickle. I'm not a fan of Romeo and Juliet's story, I've had a cynical distaste for it since I was forced to read it my sophomore year of high school, so much of its beauty is lost on me, but you do sell it quite well. Solas and Lavellan already have the star crossed lovers thing going for them... and the tragedy. Picturing the two of them dying as wastefully as Romeo and Juliet did is depressing, though. Thank you. Yeah, I have a few of those unfortunately, school can really kill literature sometimes. I mean, I'm a super fan of it, but even I had some pieces that I began to resent after having to analyze it in a way I totally disagreed with. Shakespeare, though? My mom took care of that by taking me to Shakespeare plays and renaissance festivals since I was very little, I fell totally in love with the whole thing - the stories, the time period, the romanticism, everything. Romeo and Juliet I think kind of wears on people because it's just so classic that it's almost like you can't consider yourself literate without knowing it and that kind of kills its charm completely. That's why I prefer the loftier approach of university academia to high school antics, I immensely enjoyed debating literature with my own, personal analyses rather than parroting someone else's ideas (disguised as indisputable facts) about what the story means. Personally I loved the angsty romance of it instantly, and my ultimate favorite on-screen rendition always has a special place in my heart (Zeffirelli) - Nino Rota's What is a Youth just... I can't listen to that song and not be reduced to romantic goo.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Apr 13, 2017 5:10:07 GMT
That's all well said. I would say their being so young is what makes their story compelling. They're making grand gestures of love while they're still so naive and, at least in Romeo's case, fickle. I'm not a fan of Romeo and Juliet's story, I've had a cynical distaste for it since I was forced to read it my sophomore year of high school, so much of its beauty is lost on me, but you do sell it quite well. Solas and Lavellan already have the star crossed lovers thing going for them... and the tragedy. Picturing the two of them dying as wastefully as Romeo and Juliet did is depressing, though. Thank you. Yeah, I have a few of those unfortunately, school can really kill literature sometimes. I mean, I'm a super fan of it, but even I had some pieces that I began to resent after having to analyze it in a way I totally disagreed with. Shakespeare, though? My mom took care of that by taking me to Shakespeare plays and renaissance festivals since I was very little, I fell totally in love with the whole thing - the stories, the time period, the romanticism, everything. Romeo and Juliet I think kind of wears on people because it's just so classic that it's almost like you can't consider yourself literate without knowing it and that kind of kills its charm completely. That's why I prefer the loftier approach of university academia to high school antics, I immensely enjoyed debating literature with my own, personal analyses rather than parroting someone else's ideas (disguised as indisputable facts) about what the story means. Personally I loved the angsty romance of it instantly, and my ultimate favorite on-screen rendition always has a special place in my heart (Zeffirelli) - Nino Rota's What is a Youth just... I can't listen to that song and not be reduced to romantic goo. That's really great how your mother set the foundation for your love of Shakespeare and the Renaissance period like she did. School was my first introduction to classic literature, and to this day the only plays I've been to have been school productions. It wasn't being forced to read certain literature that bothered me, although I agree the way that high school strives to make you analyse and come to the "right" conclusions the correct way was grating, but I was always doomed to loathe Romeo and Juliet. Part of it very well may be the oversaturation of it, and the fact that it seems too cliche and overdone at this point, no matter that it was a phenomena during its time, but for the most part, blasphemous as it may seem to a fan, I just don't like the story and the characters I was a brutally cynical teenager, so the romantic aspects of Romeo and Juliet didn't draw me in. They just seemed like shallow, short-sited morons when I first read it (I've never bought into the idea of love at first sight). I forgive the characters more now that I'm a little older, but the ending will never cease to annoy me. Their deaths were so needless and convoluted that the message of powerful love was lost on me. I much prefer Shakespeare's other well-known works, A Midsummer Night's Dream being my personal favorite. And I do agree that debating literature is a lot of fun Now, attempting to make it seem like this post is on topic, I will say that I really do love the drama of the star-crossed lovers. It's why I played a mage for my Cullen and Fenris romance and why the Cousland and Alistair romance isn't my favorite. Lavellan and Solas would be compelling even if I hadn't be role-playing my Lavellan and it didn't feel as personal to me. They love each other, but must walk different paths, and combine that with the interesting lore and the fact that there was a complete shift in power, and well... there's a reason this thread is my internet base!
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Apr 13, 2017 13:40:11 GMT
^ Yeah! A Midsummer Night's Dream fan club expands by one! 😀
It's my favourite, too. I have a gorgeous reprint of a copy illustrated by Arthur Rackham that I treasure.
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Gwyvian
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Post by Gwyvian on Apr 13, 2017 14:09:33 GMT
That's really great how your mother set the foundation for your love of Shakespeare and the Renaissance period like she did. School was my first introduction to classic literature, and to this day the only plays I've been to have been school productions. It wasn't being forced to read certain literature that bothered me, although I agree the way that high school strives to make you analyse and come to the "right" conclusions the correct way was grating, but I was always doomed to loathe Romeo and Juliet. Part of it very well may be the oversaturation of it, and the fact that it seems too cliche and overdone at this point, no matter that it was a phenomena during its time, but for the most part, blasphemous as it may seem to a fan, I just don't like the story and the characters I was a brutally cynical teenager, so the romantic aspects of Romeo and Juliet didn't draw me in. They just seemed like shallow, short-sited morons when I first read it (I've never bought into the idea of love at first sight). I forgive the characters more now that I'm a little older, but the ending will never cease to annoy me. Their deaths were so needless and convoluted that the message of powerful love was lost on me. I much prefer Shakespeare's other well-known works, A Midsummer Night's Dream being my personal favorite. And I do agree that debating literature is a lot of fun Now, attempting to make it seem like this post is on topic, I will say that I really do love the drama of the star-crossed lovers. It's why I played a mage for my Cullen and Fenris romance and why the Cousland and Alistair romance isn't my favorite. Lavellan and Solas would be compelling even if I hadn't be role-playing my Lavellan and it didn't feel as personal to me. They love each other, but must walk different paths, and combine that with the interesting lore and the fact that there was a complete shift in power, and well... there's a reason this thread is my internet base! I can understand that. It's not that Romeo and Juliet is my favorite or anything, it's just kind of an integral part of Shakespeare's repertoire and therefore I already like it before I even get into the details. As a kid I believe my favorite was As You Like It, but since then my favorite seems to change with each period of my life. Right now I'm heavily leaning towards Richard III as a favorite, but then, I spent a lot of time analyzing it recently so I may be just biased, hahaha. Once we're speaking of blasphemous opinions, though... you know, I never did quite like Hamlet. It's right up there with Romeo and Juliet in terms of fame and popularity, from an analytical/artistic point of view I love it as much as any other Shakespeare play, but I never could identify with the characters in the same way as I do in other plays and a lot of the events just make me want to slap sense into everyone. Although, I have to say, it matters a great deal what form you see it in with what actors; I've seen renditions of Hamlet that I thoroughly enjoyed, though it never will be my favorite I think. Reading a play is an entirely different beast, of course, I'm not sure if I could pick based on that alone because I obsess over language and Shakespeare is like a candy store for me. In general I think this trope-centric quality is basically Shakespeare's best and simultaneously worst feature: it can pretty much connect to everyone across the ages because humans are inevitably always humans with the same base composition of emotions, etc., I think that's the secret to his eternal fame, but at the same time having the same story repeat itself endlessly can get pretty damn tiring if you don't happen to get into that particular trope. As for its oversaturation, yeah, I never much cared for "popular" stories in general, it took me quite a while to reconcile myself with them and see past the hype; Shakespeare is kind of an exception for me, but I understand being put off a story because it's venerated all around like a diamond among diamonds. As to the story and characters, yeah, I was always terribly cynical in many ways but where romance was concerned I was always secretly a bar of melting butter. Not one that I shared with anyone because of said cynical attitude towards this world, but for me that was one of the major draws (and I'm not ashamed to admit most stories captivate me with a combination of romance and plot - I must have both to perfection). Haha, yes, star-crossed lovers is a pretty epic form of romance, I'm definitely a fan, although where Alistair is concerned I'm a sucker for the Cousland pairing; the fangirl in me just loves fairytale endings with a horrible dark twist? But then again I'm a Solasmancer, so there. In general if I had to draw a theme from my romance choices in BioWare games I'd say it has to be potent, meaninful, angsty and bittersweet and I can see that in all my pairings to one degree or another. I do tend to pick pretty tragic options, though.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 13, 2017 14:17:55 GMT
I don't really think of Solas/Lavellan as star crossed lovers in the same way that Romeo and Juliet are because in the latter case they know almost from the beginning that they are on opposite sides but carry on regardless thinking that their love will conquer all. With Solas and Lavellan, I don't know about anyone else but I thought we were on the same side right up until Trespasser. It wasn't just that we were in the Inquisition together; it was the fact that Solas and I seemed to agree on some many things and he was supporting her in so many of her decisions. She thought he was a bit unfair at first in his criticism of the Dalish but he very graciously apologised to her when she pointed out that they were at least trying. The only hint she had that romancing him might not be a good idea came from Solas himself but you could take that reluctance to mean any number of things but not that "I'm the Dread Wolf and I intend destroying your world." (By the way, I agree that studying Shakespeare minutely in school is not the way to appreciate him. You need to see Shakespeare first not just read the words).
Anyway, on the subject of whether I could kill Solas or not, that is going to come down to how I role play my PC and how the story develops. When my friend Lavellan (male) was first confronted by Solas' revelations, I was appalled at the idea and intensely disappointed in him (thankful that the dialogue allowed this) but not with his reaction to my words and as I've said before on these boards, I just didn't recognise him as the person I had come to respect in the main game, even if my male Lavellan had always suspected he was hiding something. I quite genuinely (in character and out of it) could not give a damn at that point about "redeeming" Solas but only about stopping him.
Then I replayed Trespasser with my female Lavellan and staying in character, I was genuinely moved by the whole thing. I wanted to save him from himself and refused to give up on him, despite the fact that his initial abandonment at the end of the main game had absolutely floored her. She still doesn't agree with what he is planning but she does think he is simply making a terrible mistake.
So that seemed to give me my two different endings that I could role play off next time round. Except my lovely male Lavellan (who is my canon PC) is not ruthless and unforgiving (neither am I) so after getting over the initial shock and thinking about things, he rather regrets not being more sympathetic to Solas' predicament and wonders if there is some way of stopping him without killing him, even though saving the world still takes priority. Which is why I hope we're not simply shoehorned into taking one path or another on the basis of what was said in the heat of the moment at the end of Trespasser, like how Leliana becomes hardened because of one decision near the beginning of DAI and no matter what you do subsequently, you cannot change her outlook.
I didn't have the romance problem with Anders because I worked out that might end badly after the incident with Ella, so I stuck with just being good friends. First run there was no Sebastian and it was obvious that Anders wanted to be a martyr (or perhaps it was more that Justice did), so that was all the more reason for letting him live. Plus I agreed with Merrill that since he had dropped me in the situation where I was having to save the mages of the Circle from annulment, the least he could do was help. However, it did stick in my throat a bit that as a result nearly everyone, including Anders, thought it was because I supported his action and I wasn't able to disabuse him of the idea. Basically I wanted to say, "You're an absolute dick Anders and Justice can go screw himself, but we're going to save these mages or die trying." I was bit worried though when the epilogue said that Anders had deserted me with all the rest because I worried about what else he might do without me to keep an eye on him.
Second run, I had purchased the Sebastian DLC so I did accept the premise that he could have been inside the Chantry when it blew and appreciated that he was the only person who acknowledged that the Circle mages were not responsible for the situation but Anders was, so I obliged him by executing Anders. This solved the problem about what happened to Anders after the ending as well. To be honest, Anders clearly wanted to die a martyr, so he got his wish.
I find Solas more problematic since whilst he seems perfectly prepared to die to bring about the sort of world he wants to see, I don't actually see him as wanting to be a martyr. He is simply set on his "purpose" (which makes him a lot like Justice really) and won't allow anyone to deflect him from it. To be honest I will be pleasantly surprised if we can talk him out of it but have this nasty feeling that someone else will interfere so that it goes ahead regardless, may be even killing Solas in the process. Then we will have to avenge him.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Apr 13, 2017 19:42:39 GMT
^ Yeah! A Midsummer Night's Dream fan club expands by one! 😀 It's my favourite, too. I have a gorgeous reprint of a copy illustrated by Arthur Rackham that I treasure. I first read it while going through a "I should read more classic literature" phase and it was the first of Shakespeare's comedies I had ever read. Not being terribly familiar with Shakespeare at that point, only having read a few of his famous tragedies for high school, it took me by surprise in the best way. I had to look up Arthur Rackham, but I did recognize his work I can see why you'd treasure your copy. I can understand that. It's not that Romeo and Juliet is my favorite or anything, it's just kind of an integral part of Shakespeare's repertoire and therefore I already like it before I even get into the details. As a kid I believe my favorite was As You Like It, but since then my favorite seems to change with each period of my life. Right now I'm heavily leaning towards Richard III as a favorite, but then, I spent a lot of time analyzing it recently so I may be just biased, hahaha. Once we're speaking of blasphemous opinions, though... you know, I never did quite like Hamlet. It's right up there with Romeo and Juliet in terms of fame and popularity, from an analytical/artistic point of view I love it as much as any other Shakespeare play, but I never could identify with the characters in the same way as I do in other plays and a lot of the events just make me want to slap sense into everyone. Although, I have to say, it matters a great deal what form you see it in with what actors; I've seen renditions of Hamlet that I thoroughly enjoyed, though it never will be my favorite I think. Reading a play is an entirely different beast, of course, I'm not sure if I could pick based on that alone because I obsess over language and Shakespeare is like a candy store for me. In general I think this trope-centric quality is basically Shakespeare's best and simultaneously worst feature: it can pretty much connect to everyone across the ages because humans are inevitably always humans with the same base composition of emotions, etc., I think that's the secret to his eternal fame, but at the same time having the same story repeat itself endlessly can get pretty damn tiring if you don't happen to get into that particular trope. As for its oversaturation, yeah, I never much cared for "popular" stories in general, it took me quite a while to reconcile myself with them and see past the hype; Shakespeare is kind of an exception for me, but I understand being put off a story because it's venerated all around like a diamond among diamonds. As to the story and characters, yeah, I was always terribly cynical in many ways but where romance was concerned I was always secretly a bar of melting butter. Not one that I shared with anyone because of said cynical attitude towards this world, but for me that was one of the major draws (and I'm not ashamed to admit most stories captivate me with a combination of romance and plot - I must have both to perfection). Haha, yes, star-crossed lovers is a pretty epic form of romance, I'm definitely a fan, although where Alistair is concerned I'm a sucker for the Cousland pairing; the fangirl in me just loves fairytale endings with a horrible dark twist? But then again I'm a Solasmancer, so there. In general if I had to draw a theme from my romance choices in BioWare games I'd say it has to be potent, meaninful, angsty and bittersweet and I can see that in all my pairings to one degree or another. I do tend to pick pretty tragic options, though. Blasphemour! Not liking Hamlet! Haha, I am kidding, although I do like Hamlet myself. I haven't read As You Like It. It's one of Shakespeare's comedies, right? There's a lot of Shakespeare I have yet to read. Play format is not my favorite way to absorb a story, and I'm probably too much of an introvert in real life to go and seek out performances of his plays by myself. I will eventually read more of his works, though. When I was younger (middle school aged mostly) I liked to play it cool, so for years I refused to read anything with too much "frivolous" romance or other "stupid" and "girly" things. Yeah, I was that kid... I believe it was my freshman year of high school when my mom bought me a book thinking it was about vampires and werewolves at war with each other (she had read the back of the third one) and so I ended up reading Twilight, so I wouldn't make her feel bad about spending money on something I'd usually turn my nose up at. It started an embarrassing period of being a closet romantic where I'd read absolute trash YA romance in private and scoff at the thought of doing such a thing in public. Cassandra, you understand me so. I'm now at the much matured (hahahaha) point in my life where I've come to accept both sides of myself. I like an interesting plot with a good romance. Too much romance will turn me away, but romance in a story will also draw me in. I'm not ashamed to admit that a big reason I bought Dragon Age: Origins in the first place was because of promised romances. It intrigued me. The most dynamic romance simulation I'd played in an RPG before was wearing an Amulet of Mara around to let some Skyrim people know I was interested in their cold, personality-less bodies. BioWare really showed me how much I was missing! The best romances have all those things you stated. I like trial and hardship between characters in love. I like making them work for a happily ever after through misery and tragedy and misunderstanding, but eventually, I do want them to achieve that happiness-- even if it's not so much a fairytale ending as just another chapter in the story of two people living their lives, with all the bumps that entails, together. The course of true love never did run smooth. I don't really think of Solas/Lavellan as star crossed lovers in the same way that Romeo and Juliet are because in the latter case they know almost from the beginning that they are on opposite sides but carry on regardless thinking that their love will conquer all. With Solas and Lavellan, I don't know about anyone else but I thought we were on the same side right up until Trespasser. It wasn't just that we were in the Inquisition together; it was the fact that Solas and I seemed to agree on some many things and he was supporting her in so many of her decisions. She thought he was a bit unfair at first in his criticism of the Dalish but he very graciously apologised to her when she pointed out that they were at least trying. The only hint she had that romancing him might not be a good idea came from Solas himself but you could take that reluctance to mean any number of things but not that "I'm the Dread Wolf and I intend destroying your world." (By the way, I agree that studying Shakespeare minutely in school is not the way to appreciate him. You need to see Shakespeare first not just read the words). Anyway, on the subject of whether I could kill Solas or not, that is going to come down to how I role play my PC and how the story develops. When my friend Lavellan (male) was first confronted by Solas' revelations, I was appalled at the idea and intensely disappointed in him (thankful that the dialogue allowed this) but not with his reaction to my words and as I've said before on these boards, I just didn't recognise him as the person I had come to respect in the main game, even if my male Lavellan had always suspected he was hiding something. I quite genuinely (in character and out of it) could not give a damn at that point about "redeeming" Solas but only about stopping him. Then I replayed Trespasser with my female Lavellan and staying in character, I was genuinely moved by the whole thing. I wanted to save him from himself and refused to give up on him, despite the fact that his initial abandonment at the end of the main game had absolutely floored her. She still doesn't agree with what he is planning but she does think he is simply making a terrible mistake. So that seemed to give me my two different endings that I could role play off next time round. Except my lovely male Lavellan (who is my canon PC) is not ruthless and unforgiving (neither am I) so after getting over the initial shock and thinking about things, he rather regrets not being more sympathetic to Solas' predicament and wonders if there is some way of stopping him without killing him, even though saving the world still takes priority. Which is why I hope we're not simply shoehorned into taking one path or another on the basis of what was said in the heat of the moment at the end of Trespasser, like how Leliana becomes hardened because of one decision near the beginning of DAI and no matter what you do subsequently, you cannot change her outlook. I didn't have the romance problem with Anders because I worked out that might end badly after the incident with Ella, so I stuck with just being good friends. First run there was no Sebastian and it was obvious that Anders wanted to be a martyr (or perhaps it was more that Justice did), so that was all the more reason for letting him live. Plus I agreed with Merrill that since he had dropped me in the situation where I was having to save the mages of the Circle from annulment, the least he could do was help. However, it did stick in my throat a bit that as a result nearly everyone, including Anders, thought it was because I supported his action and I wasn't able to disabuse him of the idea. Basically I wanted to say, "You're an absolute dick Anders and Justice can go screw himself, but we're going to save these mages or die trying." I was bit worried though when the epilogue said that Anders had deserted me with all the rest because I worried about what else he might do without me to keep an eye on him. Second run, I had purchased the Sebastian DLC so I did accept the premise that he could have been inside the Chantry when it blew and appreciated that he was the only person who acknowledged that the Circle mages were not responsible for the situation but Anders was, so I obliged him by executing Anders. This solved the problem about what happened to Anders after the ending as well. To be honest, Anders clearly wanted to die a martyr, so he got his wish. I find Solas more problematic since whilst he seems perfectly prepared to die to bring about the sort of world he wants to see, I don't actually see him as wanting to be a martyr. He is simply set on his "purpose" (which makes him a lot like Justice really) and won't allow anyone to deflect him from it. To be honest I will be pleasantly surprised if we can talk him out of it but have this nasty feeling that someone else will interfere so that it goes ahead regardless, may be even killing Solas in the process. Then we will have to avenge him. I think Solas and Lavellan can be considered star-crossed lovers, and more so than the other examples I gave. While they were working together for most of the story we've seen, greater forces-- duty, redemption, their people, the greater good (Solas, Solas, and it's all Solas, blame him )-- were moving to pull them apart and keep them from obtaining their happy ending together. The differences in how your two playthrough a made you feel about Solas and the situation the Inquisitor was in is pretty great. That's how you know you're getting into a role-play! I completely agree about hoping that we're not committed to a certain path just because our dying, exhausted, angry, and confused Inquisitors might have made a decision that they could come to regret. I hated Leliana's hardening in Inquisition. I hate metagaming my role-plays, but her situation was just so stupid. Here she's the spy master and you're a "happen to have survived maybe Herald, but still new at the Inquisitioning", and you're supposed to get nosy enough to stop Leliana from killing a traitor in a situation she knows about, that's personal to her. Or you don't get nosy, but she gets colder and callous and it doesn't matter if you tell her people matter later. Errrr. So stupid. I also agree about getting annoyed at DA2 for not realizing that I could haaaate what Anders had done and think he was a terrible, traitorous arsehole, but still not want to stab him in the back. He was my friend. And only my jerk Hawke play throughs and one very uppity Hawke could kill Anders. I mostly think he deserved to live with the guilt, anyway. Also, also, I have the feeling that could happen with Solas and another force too. I'm just hoping the "killing him in the process" thing doesn't happen.
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Post by Seven Zettabytes on Apr 13, 2017 20:13:13 GMT
Sorry for the off-topic, just wanted to share: I've only seen a handful of Shakespeare's plays, but I really love Much Ado About Nothing. It became one of my favorite plays when I saw the Globe Theater rendition on film. The main actor was very good, and the interactions with the audience and little touches made it a lot of fun to watch. Here's a scene from it, sadly not the funniest but it's the best one I can find:
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Post by illyria on Apr 13, 2017 22:31:41 GMT
Hey nerds.
Guess who forgot their password again and was too lazy to reset it again?
Me!
Anyway, I got MEA it's pretty good so far.
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Post by fylimar on Apr 14, 2017 7:44:33 GMT
So, tell me how your Lavellans feel about the worst outcome. Would they kill Solas if there were no other way to stop him? Of course, the alternative might be another end-of-the-world scenario, so yes, they would stop him. I just started the Solas romance for the first time with one of my characters, but all others (regardless of race) normally left on good terms with him, which means, it will always be a tough decision, killing a friend, but if that friend can't be stopped in any other way from doing what he does, they would kill him in the end regardless. It would be the toughest for my little Cadash tbh, she has developed a serious crush on Solas, the poor little thing. Since there are probably a lot of Solasmancers in this thread, I have a question. With my solasromancing Lavellan, where should I take Solas (apart from the obvious elven and fade related places)? Is there any special dialogue, I should watch out for? I don#t want him in my party the whole time, since love the other two mage companions, Dorian and Viv, too. And I know that there are some special dialogues that can pop up, even if the occasion isn't that important. Had that with Iron Bull and Blackwall too. hanks in advance By the way: Did someone know, that there is a band called Solas? They make folk music:
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 14, 2017 9:14:47 GMT
There is nothing out in the field that specifically relates to the romance, apart from near the end after the break up but before you confront Corypheus, if you take him and Cole out in the same party. Blackwall makes some banal enquiry about Fade sex of Solas (urged to do so apparently by Sera) but I think he says that regardless of his status with the Inquisitor. You need to have Solas with you when you go to the Winter Palace if you want your special romance related content.
What you need to do if you have not done so before is have Solas in the same party as Dorian. The conversations between them about the technical nature of magic are fascinating and the other ones they have relating to slavery mean that Solas is able to say the sort of things that Lavellan might have wanted to but couldn't. Solas and Vivienne are quiet interesting too, since she thinks she is superior to him, which is somewhat amusing in hindsight. Dorian and Vivienne have some rather good conversations as well.
My first run, my Lavellan was a mage, so I missed a lot of the interaction between them through only having one other mage in the party at a time and that mage was invariably Solas. Then I discovered that you don't actually need a rogue with you to unlock most things or disarm traps, so I could manage much of the time with just one tank and 3 mages, or one rogue and 3 mages, which allowed me to mix and match the mage followers far more and get their banter.
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Post by fylimar on Apr 14, 2017 10:47:20 GMT
I agree, the dialogue between Solas and Dorian is pretty interesting. I must take Cole and Solas in the party more often, I always wanted to know, if Cole knows about Solas true identity. I would think so - it seems, Solas is pretty popular in the Fade and he kind of hurts, a feeling, that Cole can read.
About rogues in the group: I always take one with me, because I have stood too often before closed doors. But my Solas-romancing Lavellan is a rogue (my favorite class in all DA games, although mage in DAI is quite nice too), so no problem there
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 14, 2017 18:34:55 GMT
The conversations between Cole and Solas are interesting and I get the impression that at times Cole is one step away from revealing all. He talks about Solas' inner pain and on another how he may still be able to find happiness. That last one leads into Cole talking about what Solas once did and when the Inquisitor asks what they are talking about, Solas says it was the mistake made by a much younger elf who thought he knew everything. In fact there are lots of exchanges between them that only start making sense after Trespasser. It is also interesting that I believe Cole is the only companion who approves if the Inquisitor declares "We must save Solas" after the Viddasala has confronted us and left to find him. I found that out by taking that option with my romanced Lavellan with Cole in the party. I like to think it was Cole who gave her the courage and determination not to give up on Solas after he reveals his master plan.
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 14, 2017 19:17:06 GMT
I agree, the dialogue between Solas and Dorian is pretty interesting. I must take Cole and Solas in the party more often, I always wanted to know, if Cole knows about Solas true identity. I would think so - it seems, Solas is pretty popular in the Fade and he kind of hurts, a feeling, that Cole can read. About rogues in the group: I always take one with me, because I have stood too often before closed doors. But my Solas-romancing Lavellan is a rogue (my favorite class in all DA games, although mage in DAI is quite nice too), so no problem there And let's not forget, Solas' rogue-specific flirt is clearly the best one.
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