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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 2, 2016 16:38:51 GMT
ATTENTION: The information in this thread was originally posted by Simbacca on the old BioWare Social Network (BSN) forums. I am posting this information here so it does not get lost, and also to make it easier to find on these forums. I take no credit for this work. I am unsure if Simbacca is a registered user on this site, so I am posting this information without permission. I found this information extremely useful in my own playthroughs and repeatedly pointed to this thread when trying to help other players. I do not want this information to get lost. What do people find when they search the internet or the forums for ME1 Shepard build advice? Quite a bit I'm sure, but one thing is always the same: three-playthrough level 60 Shepard builds. It's no surprise really, the min-maxer in us all sees a way to get a conversation talent maxed out for free so why not? I'll tell you why not: 40 hours of your life, or at least your limited gaming time (i'm assuming an average 20 hours per playthrough, YMMV). That's why this needed to be complied and posted. The motivation? For me personally, I came up with my own list of single playthrough builds months ago. Since I play the series on the Xbox 360, I can't just head over to masseffectsaves.com to download a new ME1 Shepard with a new name and new choices. And honestly, I'm getting sick of having multiple ME2 career files with the same 2 Shepard first names (since the games never once use Shepard's first name, being able to rename just like we can change class on import would have been an appreciated feature...). That means everytime I want a new Shepard import from ME1, I actually have to playthrough ME1 again. That in itself is not a bad thing, it's great mixing it up once in a while between which of the two I'm playing, but having been bored out of mind playing the same exact build through ME1 three times in a row once was enough. I'm fine and happy with my future ME1 imports into ME2 starting at level 3 (importing an ME1 Shepard that was lvl 50+) instead of level 5 (importing an ME1 Shepard that was lvl 60).The builds in this post will feature: - builds no higher than level 50
Though it is possible to get to level 56 or even 57 in one playthrough, level 50 is all that is needed to ensure an ME1 Shepard imports starts at level 3 in ME2. In fact most of the builds that will be listed in this post will be below level 50, allowing for some wiggle room. Cutting out a good chunk of the annoying, repetitive side missions since only level 50 is needed is priceless. Since this thread is all about one playthrough builds, these Shepards will only receive free 4 points in the conversation talent (Charm and Intimidate) of choice. To ensure these Shepards still pass any conversation talent check, hard earned points will need to be invested. Now I know that Intimidate can pass all check in the game at just rank 9 or 10, but Charm does need to be maxed to 12 to pass all checks (take a look at the checklist linked at the bottom of this post for how much Charm/Intimidate is needed for many, but not all, missions). Therefore all builds should be listed with 8 points in Charm to keep them flexible enough for people to use for either their Paragon or Renegade playing needs. Most likely only the first time through ME1 would a player not have access to bonus talents for their Shepard. This exercise in class building with a more limited talent point pool becomes a bit too easy without a bonus talent anyway. If people want to utilize a build on a first playthrough without the bonus talent, well I think they can figure out how to redistribute any extra points the remove bonus talent would yield on their own. : Lvl 47 Soldier (AR/Sniper): 03 Pistols (optional!, Basic, for the early game when rifle accuracy is too horrid to bother with) 00 Shotguns 07 Assault Rifles (Basic, Frictionless Materials can replace the need for Overkill) 12 Sniper Rifles (Master) 07 Combat Armor (unlocks Heavy Armor) 00 First Aid 12 Assault Training (Master) 12 Fitness (Master) 12 Lift (Master) 12 Commando 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 50 Soldier (Pistol/Shotgun): 12 Pistols (Master) 12 Shotguns (Master) 01 Assault Rifles 00 Sniper Rifles 07 Combat Armor (unlocks Heavy Armor) 00 First Aid 12 Assault Training (Master) 12 Fitness (Master) 12 Singularity (Master) 12 Shocktrooper 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 46 Bastion Adept: 00 Basic Armor 00 Pistols 08 Throw (Advanced) 12 Lift (Master) 07 Warp (Advanced) 12 Singularity (Master, with Assault Rifles) or 07 (Advanced, with Shotguns) 12 Barrier (Master) 06 Stasis (Advanced) 07 Assault Rifles (Basic, Frictionless Materials can replace the need for Overkill) or 12 Shotguns (Master) 12 Bastion 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 49 Nemesis Adept: 05 Basic Armor (unlocks Pistols) 12 Pistols (Master) 08 Throw (Advanced) 12 Lift (Master) 07 Warp (Advanced) 07 Singularity (Advacned) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 00 Stasis 09 Decryption (Master, disables the synthetics biotics can't, i.e. Rocket Drones and Turrets) 12 Nemesis 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 42 Operative Engineer: 12 Pistols (Master) 00 Basic Armor 00 First Aid 00 Medicine 09 Decryption (Master) 09 Electronics (Master) 12 AI Hacking (Master) 06 Damping (Advanced) 12 Singularity (Master) ...or Barrier (though I feel this is just a weaker version of the Operative Infiltrator) 12 Operative 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 49 Medic Engineer: 12 Pistols (Master) 00 Basic Armor 05 First Aid (unlocks Medicine) 12 Medicine (Master) 09 Decryption (Master) 09 Electronics (Master) 12 AI Hacking (Master) 00 Damping 12 Singularity or Barrier (Master) 12 Medic 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 00 Spectre Training Lvl 49 Vanguard: 12 Pistols (Master) 00 Shotguns 08 Assault Training (Advanced) 07 Tactical Armor (unlocks Medium Armor) 08 Throw (Advanced) 12 Lift (Master) 06 Warp (Advanced) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 07 Singularity (Advanced) 12 Shock Trooper 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 49 Infiltrator (Pistol): 12 Pistols (Master) 00 Sniper Rifles 07 Tactical Armor (unlocks Medium Armor) 12 Fitness (Master) 09 Electronics (Master) 06 Damping (Advanced) 09 Decryption (Master) 00 First Aid 12 AI Hacking (Master) 12 Commando or Operative 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 49 Infiltrator (Sniper): 05 Pistols (Basic) 12 Sniper Rifles (Master) 07 Tactical Armor (unlocks Medium Armor) 12 Fitness (Master) 09 Electronics (Master) 06 Damping (Advanced) 09 Decryption (Master) 00 First Aid 07 AI Hacking (Advanced) 12 Commando 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 45 Bastion Sentinel: 08 Throw (Advanced) 12 Lift (Master) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 06 Stasis (Advanced) 09 Decryption (Master) 09 Electronics (Master) 00 First Aid 00 Medicine 12 Singularity or Weapon talent (Master) 12 Bastion 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Lvl 47 Medic Sentinel: 08 Throw (Advanced) 07 Lift (Advanced) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 00 Stasis 09 Decryption (Master) 09 Electronics (Master) 05 First Aid (unlocks Medicine) 12 Medicine (Master) 12 Singularity or AI Hacking or Weapon talent (Master) 12 Medic 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 00 Spectre Training Link: Mass Effect 1 Galactic Checklist. [OT: an observation] Still I have to admit looking at the Infiltrator I listed, it does look an Engineer that traded Neural Shock and it's bonus talent for Immunity and Medium Armor. Come to think of it, this is kind of why I never understood Operative Engineer players that take Barrier as a bonus. Why not just build a tech focused Infiltrator instead? The Barrier Operative Engineer is like a defensively weaker version of the Hacking Operative Infiltrator. Better to give Engineers something that would make them feel unique as a class instead of feeling like a gimped Operative Infiltrator.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 19:07:06 GMT
Great job Red. I'm glad you're rescuing this stuff! Is it possible to include a Level 50 Shotgun Vanguard in the list. I know it's not an optimal build (pistols are better), but the only suggestions I've seen are for Level 60 builds. However, if one is going to do it, they have to be thinking about trending towards the shotgun route before they reach Level 50. It would be nice to see an Level 50 suggestion here. My current Vanguard(who I am trying out with shotguns is at Level 36 with 3 points not yet assigned:
Pistols 6 Shotguns 6 Assault Training 8 (advanced adrenaline burst) Tactical Armor 8 (advanced shield burst - probably a mistake to have put that extra point in here) Throw 8 Lift 3 Warp 6 Barrier 7 Decryption 5 (advanced sabotage) Shock Trooper 12 Charm 2 (just the free points) Intimidate 9 (6 assigned points, rest free); will probably need to assign one more to scam Anoleis on Noveria, but I don't know for sure if that needs 9 or 10 since I've never tried with without 10 points; will finish with 11 intimidate points - this part is pretty rigid since this is the P/R no glitch, unlock both The Negotiation and Beseiged Base playthrough test I'm doing for Gourmetrix) Spectre Training 0 I am debating whether to take Decryption up to 9 (Hard, so I can take Liara and Ashley or Wrex together and still be able to open everything). I can potentially leave lift weak and just rely on Liara's singularities. Master sabotage does get me handily around a lot of geth... at least it worked well with my "shotgun only soldier") I will probably want to get the 4 points in the Specte Training for some Unity ability, but so far I'm doing fine without it. |
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Post by Gourmetrix on Oct 2, 2016 20:07:34 GMT
Intimidate 9 (6 assigned points, rest free); will probably need to assign one more to scam Anoleis on Noveria, but I don't know for sure if that needs 9 or 10 since I've never tried with without 10 points; will finish with 11 intimidate points - this part is pretty rigid since this is the P/R no glitch, unlock both The Negotiation and Beseiged Base playthrough test I'm doing for Gourmetrix) FYI you only need 8 points of intimidate with Anoleis. Strangely, he is an easy guy to charm; you only need 4 points and you still get 9 renegade points of reward. |
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 2, 2016 20:59:30 GMT
Is it possible to include a Level 50 Shotgun Vanguard in the list. I know it's not an optimal build (pistols are better), but the only suggestions I've seen are for Level 60 builds. However, if one is going to do it, they have to be thinking about trending towards the shotgun route before they reach Level 50. It would be nice to see an Level 50 suggestion here. ... I am debating whether to take Decryption up to 9 (Hard, so I can take Liara and Ashley or Wrex together and still be able to open everything). I can potentially leave lift weak and just rely on Liara's singularities. Master sabotage does get me handily around a lot of geth... at least it worked well with my "shotgun only soldier") I will probably want to get the 4 points in the Spectre Training for some Unity ability, but so far I'm doing fine without it. 1. I'll see if I can work out a level 50 shotgun-focused Vanguard build for you. Question is how much biotics do you want? To max shotguns with a level 50 Vanguard, you will probably have to sacrifice Lift, or have it really weak. Another point: Mass Effect 1 has a weird bug where if you use Carnage (shotgun ability), Barrier's duration ends prematurely. If you do not use Carnage, no big deal. Personally, I do not really like Carnage although I like using shotguns. 2. I would take Decryption to 9. If you are investing any points into it as a bonus power, take it all the way to 9 for Master Decryption. 3. If you are doing fine without it early-to-mid game, do not put any points into it. About mid-to-late game (around level 35 and onward), the game gets noticeably easier regardless of difficulty level which means you will be needing Unity less anyway. Unity is most useful early game... when you don't have it or your cooldowns are too long to make it worth it. And the extra bonuses are kind of small anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 21:07:55 GMT
Intimidate 9 (6 assigned points, rest free); will probably need to assign one more to scam Anoleis on Noveria, but I don't know for sure if that needs 9 or 10 since I've never tried with without 10 points; will finish with 11 intimidate points - this part is pretty rigid since this is the P/R no glitch, unlock both The Negotiation and Beseiged Base playthrough test I'm doing for Gourmetrix) FYI you only need 8 points of intimidate with Anoleis. Strangely, he is an easy guy to charm; you only need 4 points and you still get 9 renegade points of reward. Oops... another point already wasted there then. Thanks... next vanguard will be different.  |
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 2, 2016 21:12:51 GMT
Is it possible to include a Level 50 Shotgun Vanguard in the list. I know it's not an optimal build (pistols are better), but the only suggestions I've seen are for Level 60 builds. However, if one is going to do it, they have to be thinking about trending towards the shotgun route before they reach Level 50. It would be nice to see an Level 50 suggestion here. All right, here is my attempt at a level 50 shotgun Vanguard build. Basically, I took Simbacca's Vanguard build, removed Lift, reduced Pistols to just the unlock rank, then max Shotguns and Singularity. Lvl 48 Vanguard (shotguns): 06 Pistols (Basic + unlocks Shotguns) 12 Shotguns 08 Assault Training (Advanced) 07 Tactical Armor (unlocks Medium Armor) 08 Throw (Advanced) 00 Lift 06 Warp (Advanced) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 12 Singularity (Advanced) 12 Shock Trooper 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Not sure if I will add it to the original post. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 21:21:39 GMT
Is it possible to include a Level 50 Shotgun Vanguard in the list. I know it's not an optimal build (pistols are better), but the only suggestions I've seen are for Level 60 builds. However, if one is going to do it, they have to be thinking about trending towards the shotgun route before they reach Level 50. It would be nice to see an Level 50 suggestion here. ... I am debating whether to take Decryption up to 9 (Hard, so I can take Liara and Ashley or Wrex together and still be able to open everything). I can potentially leave lift weak and just rely on Liara's singularities. Master sabotage does get me handily around a lot of geth... at least it worked well with my "shotgun only soldier") I will probably want to get the 4 points in the Spectre Training for some Unity ability, but so far I'm doing fine without it. 1. I'll see if I can work out a level 50 shotgun-focused Vanguard build for you. Question is how much biotics do you want? To max shotguns with a level 50 Vanguard, you will probably have to sacrifice Lift, or have it really weak. Another point: Mass Effect 1 has a weird bug where if you use Carnage (shotgun ability), Barrier's duration ends prematurely. If you do not use Carnage, no big deal. Personally, I do not really like Carnage although I like using shotguns. 2. I would take Decryption to 9. If you are investing any points into it as a bonus power, take it all the way to 9 for Master Decryption. 3. If you are doing fine without it early-to-mid game, do not put any points into it. About mid-to-late game (around level 35 and onward), the game gets noticeably easier regardless of difficulty level which means you will be needing Unity less anyway. Unity is most useful early game... when you don't have it or your cooldowns are too long to make it worth it. And the extra bonuses are kind of small anyway. Thanks. I started this thinking that Lift was the biotic ability I would sacrifice since I can use Liara's Master Singularity as a substitute. I find it usually keeps everyone in the air long enough to deal with most of them. I do have a question about the Carnage bug... that's only if I activate Carnage, right... not just because I have the ability? I've found with my shotgun only soldier that I really didn't use Carnage that frequently anyways... relying more on just getting in close and the "knockdown" effect of the weapon itself to put the enemy on the ground and keep him there until repeated blasts of lead finished him off. |
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 2, 2016 22:48:47 GMT
I do have a question about the Carnage bug... that's only if I activate Carnage, right... not just because I have the ability? Correct. The bug only occurs when you activate/use Carnage. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 13:48:54 GMT
Intimidate 9 (6 assigned points, rest free); will probably need to assign one more to scam Anoleis on Noveria, but I don't know for sure if that needs 9 or 10 since I've never tried with without 10 points; will finish with 11 intimidate points - this part is pretty rigid since this is the P/R no glitch, unlock both The Negotiation and Beseiged Base playthrough test I'm doing for Gourmetrix) FYI you only need 8 points of intimidate with Anoleis. Strangely, he is an easy guy to charm; you only need 4 points and you still get 9 renegade points of reward. Sorry, had a lapse there... I need 10 points to intimidate Jeong. Since I won't get any more free points until after that particular point in Feros, I'm going to have to assign that 6th point after all. It's not long after that when the last intimidate points will unlock and I'll end the game with 11 overall (provided, of course, nothing has changed with how the points work on the Xbox in the last two years). |
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Post by Gourmetrix on Oct 3, 2016 14:42:13 GMT
[OT: an observation] Still I have to admit looking at the Infiltrator I listed, it does look an Engineer that traded Neural Shock and it's bonus talent for Immunity and Medium Armor. Come to think of it, this is kind of why I never understood Operative Engineer players that take Barrier as a bonus. Why not just build a tech focused Infiltrator instead? The Barrier Operative Engineer is like a defensively weaker version of the Hacking Operative Infiltrator. Better to give Engineers something that would make them feel unique as a class instead of feeling like a gimped Operative Infiltrator. I greatly enjoyed reading the entire OP, but this paragraph kinda stopped me in my tracks. I had been practicing an insanity Barrier Operative Engineer for a possible LP for a couple of weeks now. Completely doable, but Simbacca is right, a Hacking Operative Infiltrator would be an Engineer on steroids. So rather than switch classes (I want an engineer for my ME2 debut), I've swapped out Barrier for Singularity for the very first time. I gotta say, that fist-twist animation, on the heels of orange, blue, and green tech mine explosions, is pretty sweet. I also imagine that a shotgun Engineer would be rather exhilarating, though likely really tough early on. |
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Post by Darth Dennis on Oct 3, 2016 14:50:24 GMT
I didn't think you could get Barrier as a bonus power. I don't remember seeing the achievement you need to unlock it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 18:14:49 GMT
I didn't think you could get Barrier as a bonus power. I don't remember seeing the achievement you need to unlock it. I know I can select it as a bonus for some classes. I believe it's obtained by using barrier a number of times, similar to how you gain the ability to have Assault Rifles as a bonus for the classes that can't normally use them. |
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Post by GrimBroom on Oct 6, 2016 18:36:29 GMT
Is it possible to include a Level 50 Shotgun Vanguard in the list. I know it's not an optimal build (pistols are better), but the only suggestions I've seen are for Level 60 builds. However, if one is going to do it, they have to be thinking about trending towards the shotgun route before they reach Level 50. It would be nice to see an Level 50 suggestion here. All right, here is my attempt at a level 50 shotgun Vanguard build. Basically, I took Simbacca's Vanguard build, removed Lift, reduced Pistols to just the unlock rank, then max Shotguns and Singularity. Lvl 48 Vanguard (shotguns): 06 Pistols (Basic + unlocks Shotguns) 12 Shotguns 08 Assault Training (Advanced) 07 Tactical Armor (unlocks Medium Armor) 08 Throw (Advanced) 00 Lift 06 Warp (Advanced) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 12 Singularity (Advanced) 12 Shock Trooper 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Not sure if I will add it to the original post. I don't play on anything higher than Normal, but I'll throw this out here: Level 50 Vanguard (Shotguns)06 Pistols 12 Shotguns 05 Assault Training 07 Tactical Armor 08 Throw 12 Lift 06 Warp 07 Barrier 07 Singularity 12 Shock Trooper 06 Charm/Intimidate 04 Spectre Training Of course, this violates the original premise of Simbacca's thread, because you won't be able to charm/intimidate Jeong. Not really a big loss for me, but your mileage may vary. Also, I wasn't able to select the last charm option on Vargas in the Espionage assignment, although the device still beeped afterwards and I was able to return to Calis for credits and completion. Maybe I lost out on some experience points, in that case. Of course, there are other options available with that particular assignment. I don't remember if only 5 intimidate points plus the 4 freebies is enough to complete the assignment going along that path, but if it is, and you prefer shooting Jeong like me, then that's one fewer point in the intimidate route. You will need to be careful about revisiting the Citadel, if you want to use the charm/intimidate options with Admiral Mikhailovich, particularly with only 5 intimidate points invested. Although, much like Jeong, I think denying him on board is the better option. I can see, of course, how a faster recharge time on Adrenaline Burst would be better for Insanity and Veteran. Master Singularity might also be better, but I was under the impression that Advanced Singularity affects all the same enemy types, while Master Lift allows you to manipulate an enemy or two that Advanced Lift cannot. |
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Post by Darth Dennis on Oct 6, 2016 21:47:32 GMT
I didn't think you could get Barrier as a bonus power. I don't remember seeing the achievement you need to unlock it. I know I can select it as a bonus for some classes. I believe it's obtained by using barrier a number of times, similar to how you gain the ability to have Assault Rifles as a bonus for the classes that can't normally use them. I saw Barrier was an option the other day when building my soldier. I guess I did get the achievement after all. |
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Post by capn233 on Oct 7, 2016 0:12:27 GMT
All right, here is my attempt at a level 50 shotgun Vanguard build. Basically, I took Simbacca's Vanguard build, removed Lift, reduced Pistols to just the unlock rank, then max Shotguns and Singularity. Lvl 48 Vanguard (shotguns): 06 Pistols (Basic + unlocks Shotguns) 12 Shotguns 08 Assault Training (Advanced) 07 Tactical Armor (unlocks Medium Armor) 08 Throw (Advanced) 00 Lift 06 Warp (Advanced) 07 Barrier (Advanced) 12 Singularity (Advanced) 12 Shock Trooper 08 Charm (12 at the end because of the 4 free points earned during the one playthrough) 04 Spectre Training (Basic) Not sure if I will add it to the original post. I don't play on anything higher than Normal, but I'll throw this out here: Level 50 Vanguard (Shotguns)06 Pistols 12 Shotguns 05 Assault Training 07 Tactical Armor 08 Throw 12 Lift 06 Warp 07 Barrier 07 Singularity 12 Shock Trooper 06 Charm/Intimidate 04 Spectre Training Of course, this violates the original premise of Simbacca's thread, because you won't be able to charm/intimidate Jeong. Not really a big loss for me, but your mileage may vary. Also, I wasn't able to select the last charm option on Vargas in the Espionage assignment, although the device still beeped afterwards and I was able to return to Calis for credits and completion. Maybe I lost out on some experience points, in that case. Of course, there are other options available with that particular assignment. I don't remember if only 5 intimidate points plus the 4 freebies is enough to complete the assignment going along that path, but if it is, and you prefer shooting Jeong like me, then that's one fewer point in the intimidate route. You will need to be careful about revisiting the Citadel, if you want to use the charm/intimidate options with Admiral Mikhailovich, particularly with only 5 intimidate points invested. Although, much like Jeong, I think denying him on board is the better option. I can see, of course, how a faster recharge time on Adrenaline Burst would be better for Insanity and Veteran. Master Singularity might also be better, but I was under the impression that Advanced Singularity affects all the same enemy types, while Master Lift allows you to manipulate an enemy or two that Advanced Lift cannot. Jeong only takes 10 Intimidate, which is incidentally the max Intimidate you need in the entire game, at least if you take the Virmire persuade line with Saren (which reduced the requirement for Citadel check from 12 to 10). Also I would tend to agree to max Lift pretty much regardless of build, so I think the above looks like what I would probably do if I was maxing Shotguns, although I might be tempted to drop Singularity / bonus further for more Pistol. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 1:37:14 GMT
I don't play on anything higher than Normal, but I'll throw this out here: Level 50 Vanguard (Shotguns)06 Pistols 12 Shotguns 05 Assault Training 07 Tactical Armor 08 Throw 12 Lift 06 Warp 07 Barrier 07 Singularity 12 Shock Trooper 06 Charm/Intimidate 04 Spectre Training Of course, this violates the original premise of Simbacca's thread, because you won't be able to charm/intimidate Jeong. Not really a big loss for me, but your mileage may vary. Also, I wasn't able to select the last charm option on Vargas in the Espionage assignment, although the device still beeped afterwards and I was able to return to Calis for credits and completion. Maybe I lost out on some experience points, in that case. Of course, there are other options available with that particular assignment. I don't remember if only 5 intimidate points plus the 4 freebies is enough to complete the assignment going along that path, but if it is, and you prefer shooting Jeong like me, then that's one fewer point in the intimidate route. You will need to be careful about revisiting the Citadel, if you want to use the charm/intimidate options with Admiral Mikhailovich, particularly with only 5 intimidate points invested. Although, much like Jeong, I think denying him on board is the better option. I can see, of course, how a faster recharge time on Adrenaline Burst would be better for Insanity and Veteran. Master Singularity might also be better, but I was under the impression that Advanced Singularity affects all the same enemy types, while Master Lift allows you to manipulate an enemy or two that Advanced Lift cannot. Jeong only takes 10 Intimidate, which is incidentally the max Intimidate you need in the entire game, at least if you take the Virmire persuade line with Saren (which reduced the requirement for Citadel check from 12 to 10). Also I would tend to agree to max Lift pretty much regardless of build, so I think the above looks like what I would probably do if I was maxing Shotguns, although I might be tempted to drop Singularity / bonus further for more Pistol. Yes, the issue is the order I'm having to do this for the P/R test I'm doing for Gourmetrix. I had to assign 6 intimidate points because I wasn't going to get the fifth free point until after the point in the playthrough where I have to intimidate Jeong. Using decryption as the bonus power has freed up 3 points that would normally go to max'ing out singularity (if my build was more the standard vanguard). It also enables me to use Liara and Wrex together on missions and still open all crates, etc. With the two of them and Shepard all with Lift and Liara with Singularity, it's really been amply effective and putting enemies up in the air. IMO, having sabotage with a shotgun is also quite an effective combination... allowing Shepard to come right in on armatures, turrets and collossi without much risk at all. At this point in this playthrough, I'm thinking I like it more than the more standard Pistol/Singularity vanguard build. He's currently at Level 52: Pistols 5 (unlock point for shotguns) Shotguns 12 (master carnage - but I've not needed to actually activate carnage yet) Assault Training 8 (Advanced Adrenaline Rush) Tactical Armor 8 (Advanced Shield Boost) Throw 8 (Advanced Throw) Lift 7 (Advanced Lift) Warp 6 (Advanced Warp) Barrier 7 (Advanced Barrier) Decryption 9 (Master Sabotage) Shock Trooper 12 (Full Barrier and Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Charm 3 (all free points) Initimidate 11 (6 assigned, 5 free) Spectre Training 4 (Basic Immunity) - I went with these just because I wanted something available if Saren downs a squad member during the last fight. Otherwise, I haven't used it yet. Any points I've earned since Level 48 have gone into taking the shotguns up from 8 (advanced sabotage) to 12 (master sabotage). I'll probably max out lift if I ever do an NG+ game with this Shep and take him to Level 60. |
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Post by GrimBroom on Oct 7, 2016 6:48:28 GMT
I don't play on anything higher than Normal, but I'll throw this out here: Level 50 Vanguard (Shotguns)06 Pistols 12 Shotguns 05 Assault Training 07 Tactical Armor 08 Throw 12 Lift 06 Warp 07 Barrier 07 Singularity 12 Shock Trooper 06 Charm/Intimidate 04 Spectre Training Of course, this violates the original premise of Simbacca's thread, because you won't be able to charm/intimidate Jeong. Not really a big loss for me, but your mileage may vary. Also, I wasn't able to select the last charm option on Vargas in the Espionage assignment, although the device still beeped afterwards and I was able to return to Calis for credits and completion. Maybe I lost out on some experience points, in that case. Of course, there are other options available with that particular assignment. I don't remember if only 5 intimidate points plus the 4 freebies is enough to complete the assignment going along that path, but if it is, and you prefer shooting Jeong like me, then that's one fewer point in the intimidate route. You will need to be careful about revisiting the Citadel, if you want to use the charm/intimidate options with Admiral Mikhailovich, particularly with only 5 intimidate points invested. Although, much like Jeong, I think denying him on board is the better option. I can see, of course, how a faster recharge time on Adrenaline Burst would be better for Insanity and Veteran. Master Singularity might also be better, but I was under the impression that Advanced Singularity affects all the same enemy types, while Master Lift allows you to manipulate an enemy or two that Advanced Lift cannot. Jeong only takes 10 Intimidate, which is incidentally the max Intimidate you need in the entire game, at least if you take the Virmire persuade line with Saren (which reduced the requirement for Citadel check from 12 to 10). Also I would tend to agree to max Lift pretty much regardless of build, so I think the above looks like what I would probably do if I was maxing Shotguns, although I might be tempted to drop Singularity / bonus further for more Pistol. It's been a while since I've done the Intimidate path, but isn't it reduced from 12 to 9? I could swear I used to just invest 5 points, because I don't care about Jeong, but I do find Shepard's "if you've got the guts" line with Saren too amusing to pass up. Plus, the hovercraft fight isn't exactly riveting stuff. Incidentally, does anyone know the checks for getting the last Charm/Intimidate option with Vargas? As I said before, it's not terribly important, because you're able to complete the assignment along that path without it, but I always found it odd that I could never track down the exact numbers. Presumably, of course, it's 11 or 12 for Charm. I have no idea if Intimidate follows the general path of being less of a point requirement, but I think I remember 9 not being enough. I sort of grudgingly invest points into Singularity for a Vanguard and Hacking for an Infiltrator, but if I had a stronger will, I'd skip them. Then again, as I stated before, I only play on Normal, so the give and take between talents is even more trivial. Soldier is really the only class that I invest in Spectre Training, for example, and only really as a point dump. Also, I always end up in the 55-57 range for my characters, because I have a hang-up about completing every assignment. Generally speaking, I'd be okay with no bonus talents throughout the trilogy, although I would miss the Assault Rifle Sentinel in the first game, and the Fortification Sentinel in the third game. The former because it's Master Marksmen deficient, and the latter because I have an unfortunate soft spot for its particular brand of cheese. |
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Post by Gourmetrix on Oct 7, 2016 11:54:23 GMT
Jeong only takes 10 Intimidate, which is incidentally the max Intimidate you need in the entire game, at least if you take the Virmire persuade line with Saren (which reduced the requirement for Citadel check from 12 to 10). Also I would tend to agree to max Lift pretty much regardless of build, so I think the above looks like what I would probably do if I was maxing Shotguns, although I might be tempted to drop Singularity / bonus further for more Pistol. It's been a while since I've done the Intimidate path, but isn't it reduced from 12 to 9? I could swear I used to just invest 5 points, because I don't care about Jeong, but I do find Shepard's "if you've got the guts" line with Saren too amusing to pass up. Plus, the hovercraft fight isn't exactly riveting stuff. That's correct, you only need 9 charm/intimidate with Saren at the end if you persuaded him at Virmire. Short answer: you need 11 points with Vargas to select every option. Long answer: The first check with Vargas only requires 1 point and is used to set the "tone" of the negotiation. (Since you are a spectre, both of these are always selectable.) Thereafter, going against the tone requires higher skill. So if you were initially charming, the second check requires only 6 points of charm but 8 points intimidate, and vice versa if you were initially intimidating. The third check requires 9 or 11. The final check requires 11 points to stay within the tone, and the other will be unselectable. This is the only place in the game where you can never get both selections, even if you've maxed both skills at 12. FYI, you don't miss out on experience if you can't persuade Vargas all the way. In fact, if you rely on his "tell" where he scratches the back of his neck, you can get the doohickey to beep without any persuasion beyond the first check and still get full XP. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 13:49:21 GMT
Jeong only takes 10 Intimidate, which is incidentally the max Intimidate you need in the entire game, at least if you take the Virmire persuade line with Saren (which reduced the requirement for Citadel check from 12 to 10). Also I would tend to agree to max Lift pretty much regardless of build, so I think the above looks like what I would probably do if I was maxing Shotguns, although I might be tempted to drop Singularity / bonus further for more Pistol. It's been a while since I've done the Intimidate path, but isn't it reduced from 12 to 9? I could swear I used to just invest 5 points, because I don't care about Jeong, but I do find Shepard's "if you've got the guts" line with Saren too amusing to pass up. Plus, the hovercraft fight isn't exactly riveting stuff. Incidentally, does anyone know the checks for getting the last Charm/Intimidate option with Vargas? As I said before, it's not terribly important, because you're able to complete the assignment along that path without it, but I always found it odd that I could never track down the exact numbers. Presumably, of course, it's 11 or 12 for Charm. I have no idea if Intimidate follows the general path of being less of a point requirement, but I think I remember 9 not being enough. I sort of grudgingly invest points into Singularity for a Vanguard and Hacking for an Infiltrator, but if I had a stronger will, I'd skip them. Then again, as I stated before, I only play on Normal, so the give and take between talents is even more trivial. Soldier is really the only class that I invest in Spectre Training, for example, and only really as a point dump. Also, I always end up in the 55-57 range for my characters, because I have a hang-up about completing every assignment. Generally speaking, I'd be okay with no bonus talents throughout the trilogy, although I would miss the Assault Rifle Sentinel in the first game, and the Fortification Sentinel in the third game. The former because it's Master Marksmen deficient, and the latter because I have an unfortunate soft spot for its particular brand of cheese. I believe I failed to intimidate Jeong just a short while ago with less than 10 Intimidate points. In this playthrough, I did not try to intimidate him without the 10 since it still says 10 is required in the Morality Guide in the Wiki, so if this is wrong it should probably be corrected. For this playthrough I haven't been worrying about passing the checks for charm/intimidate choices that don't directly lead to the acquisition of more paragon/renegade points since it is the unlocking of both morality quests (as stated in the Morality Guide in the Wiki) that I'm checking right now. I absolutely had to intimidate Jeong (as opposed to just shooting him) since intimidating him acquires 25 more renegade points... and I just could not do without those points. As far as the shotgun with decryption vanguard build goes... it's performing very well for me. I will note, however, that decryption is not the same as hacking. As far as I know, Shepard cannot acquire a hacking skill even as a bonus. In ME1, I think hacking is a skill unique to Tali only. |
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Post by Gourmetrix on Oct 7, 2016 16:19:53 GMT
I will note, however, that decryption is not the same as hacking. As far as I know, Shepard cannot acquire a hacking skill even as a bonus. In ME1, I think hacking is a skill unique to Tali only. Hacking is indeed a selectable bonus talent and is one of my favorites, both because I love watching armatures fight each other and for the 30% cooldown passive bonus applied to your other tech skills. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 17:05:06 GMT
I will note, however, that decryption is not the same as hacking. As far as I know, Shepard cannot acquire a hacking skill even as a bonus. In ME1, I think hacking is a skill unique to Tali only. Hacking is indeed a selectable bonus talent and is one of my favorites, both because I love watching armatures fight each other and for the 30% cooldown passive bonus applied to your other tech skills. I did not know that... I guess I haven't unlocked them all yet. |
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Post by capn233 on Oct 7, 2016 22:02:02 GMT
You guys are right about the Saren check at 9.
Jeong takes 10, I don't know why it wouldn't have worked with 10 intimidate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 22:07:20 GMT
You guys are right about the Saren check at 9. Jeong takes 10, I don't know why it wouldn't have worked with 10 intimidate. You're misunderstanding me... The time I failed it was when I only had 9. In this playthrough, I'm not unlocking the 11th and 12th intimidate slots until after doing Feros, so I don't get that 5th free point yet... So I have to assign 6 points (plus the 4 free I get) in order to total 10 points to pass Jeong at the point in the game I'm playing Feros. Then, later on in the game that 11th and 12th point slot will unlock and I'll get the 5th free point... making my game ending total 11 (although by then I won't need it). The reason I can't unlock the 5th free point until after Feros is because, to do this test for Gourmetrix, I have to leave BDtS to be the absolute last thing I do before Virmire and I was trying to also get 306 Paragon points before going to Ilos (as a check to see whether or not they changed how the morality quests unlock on the Xbox at the same time they changed it to a flat 275 points each on the PC. It used to take 259.2 points to unlock the first without BDts and then 306 points to unlock the second after doing BDtS (per the Wiki morality guide). |
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Post by Gourmetrix on Oct 8, 2016 4:00:04 GMT
In this playthrough, I'm not unlocking the 11th and 12th intimidate slots until after doing Feros, so I don't get that 5th free point yet... So I have to assign 6 points (plus the 4 free I get) in order to total 10 points to pass Jeong at the point in the game I'm playing Feros. Then, later on in the game that 11th and 12th point slot will unlock and I'll get the 5th free point... making my game ending total 11 (although by then I won't need it). The reason I can't unlock the 5th free point until after Feros is because, to do this test for Gourmetrix, I have to leave BDtS to be the absolute last thing I do before Virmire and I was trying to also get 306 Paragon points before going to Ilos (as a check to see whether or not they changed how the morality quests unlock on the Xbox at the same time they changed it to a flat 275 points each on the PC. It used to take 259.2 points to unlock the first without BDts and then 306 points to unlock the second after doing BDtS (per the Wiki morality guide). Just FYI, you only get 4 free points per playthrough: after spectre promotion and at the 10%, 25%, and 75% milestones. The 50% milestone listed in the Wiki only grants a passive bonus. So if you're at 10 with another unlock to go, then you've spent 7 points in the skill. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2016 11:48:18 GMT
In this playthrough, I'm not unlocking the 11th and 12th intimidate slots until after doing Feros, so I don't get that 5th free point yet... So I have to assign 6 points (plus the 4 free I get) in order to total 10 points to pass Jeong at the point in the game I'm playing Feros. Then, later on in the game that 11th and 12th point slot will unlock and I'll get the 5th free point... making my game ending total 11 (although by then I won't need it). The reason I can't unlock the 5th free point until after Feros is because, to do this test for Gourmetrix, I have to leave BDtS to be the absolute last thing I do before Virmire and I was trying to also get 306 Paragon points before going to Ilos (as a check to see whether or not they changed how the morality quests unlock on the Xbox at the same time they changed it to a flat 275 points each on the PC. It used to take 259.2 points to unlock the first without BDts and then 306 points to unlock the second after doing BDtS (per the Wiki morality guide). Just FYI, you only get 4 free points per playthrough: after spectre promotion and at the 10%, 25%, and 75% milestones. The 50% milestone listed in the Wiki only grants a passive bonus. So if you're at 10 with another unlock to go, then you've spent 7 points in the skill. I guess I miscounted what I put in... at any rate, I was at 10 when I intimidated Jeong and, after finally completing Feros in such a way that The Negotiation has indeed unlocked, I am now at 11 intimidate points (the unlock happens right AFTER I intimidate Jeong... there was no way I could get around it in this playthrough). At any rate... I have at last managed to get The Negotiation to unlock. Recorded Renegade total is 278, although as I mentioned on the other thread, I now think the issue is that I made a mistake and did not actually get 2 renegade that I thought I had. I strongly suspect my error was in completing the Jahleed's Fear quest on the Citadel. I think if you tell Jahleed to "Take it back." but then go on re-initiated scanning through him, the 2 Renegade points are lost. I had intended to not re-accept the scans, but must have done so in error. My journal still shows that I stopped the scanning... but I think that message comes up regardless when you've already scanned all the keepers before talking with Jahleed... which is what I did to get some cash at that point). This would also account for the difference noted in the unlock that the Wiki shows happening at 81.0 points and that did not happen for me until 83.0 points... and that would mean that the Xbox edition uses 324.0 as the Full Bar. |
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