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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 15, 2018 20:13:29 GMT
This is the unfortunate aspect of what BSN has evolved (or devolved) into over the years. Instead of having a pros and cons of Anthem thread to facilitate discussion, we get segregation according to preferences...reminiscent of high school social cliques. I guess that's to be expected from a group that seems overly thin-skinned as a whole. Hey now! I resent the adverb “overly”.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 15, 2018 20:29:09 GMT
Of course disagreeing on both threads is absolutely fine as long as it isn't a huge derailment, as Sofa said. That’s not what he said and it’s clearly not true that it is absolutely fine. What is true is that there’s no common understanding of what constitutes agreement or disagreement, as the former can be a lot of fanboy nonsense and the latter can be a lot of FUD nonsense. And altogether too much thee judging thou happens in the middle. One person’s reasonable concern is another’s FUD nonsense. So saying it’s fine to post disagreement in the hype thread just opens the door to a lot of nonsense being posted and admin intervention. The vice versa should be true too, ideally. Sofa’s “limited sorties” is not open season. While I don’t like segregation, I loathe censorship, and segregation at least reduces the urge to censor, when both threads are taken as a whole. For example, a skeptical post in the hype thread can be moved by the admins to the skep thread. That’s a lesser evil than deleting or banning.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 21:10:22 GMT
Of course disagreeing on both threads is absolutely fine as long as it isn't a huge derailment, as Sofa said. That’s not what he said and it’s clearly not true that it is absolutely fine. To be clear SJ said - A good rule of thumb is that the hype and skepticism threads should mostly run with those themes. That doesn't mean that those of an opposing persuasion can't pop in occasionally and make a limited opposing sortie before leaving. But if they set up camp to argue each point to ruin the joy /or/ distaste that others are enjoying /or/ experiencing, then they are doing it too much. Which is exactly what I said. I don't see the difference, a little debate is fine but don't derail the thread. What is true is that there’s no common understanding of what constitutes agreement or disagreement, as the former can be a lot of fanboy nonsense and the latter can be a lot of FUD nonsense. And altogether too much thee judging thou happens in the middle. One person’s reasonable concern is another’s FUD nonsense. So saying it’s fine to post disagreement in the hype thread just opens the door to a lot of nonsense being posted and admin intervention. The vice versa should be true too, ideally. Sofa’s “limited sorties” is not open season. While I don’t like segregation, I loathe censorship, and segregation at least reduces the urge to censor, when both threads are taken as a whole. For example, a skeptical post in the hype thread can be moved by the admins to the skep thread. That’s a lesser evil than deleting or banning. I disagree, we're not going to start a thread with the caveat that no one is allowed to debate with anyone. Sofa's 'limited sorties' is the same as my sentiment, both of which back up your statement of a few days ago. Neither scepticism nor hype threads can exist in a vacuum, a little criticism and disagreement must be allowed to further the conversation and stop censorship. When it comes to deciding what is over the line and what isn't, that's what we're here for.
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Post by wright1978 on Aug 15, 2018 23:01:03 GMT
But they already confirmed that they're working on DA4, and both Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble have both stated Mass Effect will return at some point. Exactly the only thing that might and probably will stop that is if Anthem fails. Because I can see EA stepping in and closing Bioware down if Anthem does fail especially after what happened with MEA and don't forget Bioware was downsized after what happened there so we can't exactly say they won't go one step further next time especially as EA have a track record of doing so. I don't want Anthem to fail but not because I like MMO's because I don't but because I believe the future's of both Dragon Age and Mass Effect are counting on it. Who says that if anthem is a roaring success any future dragon age / mass effect would bear resemblance to what they were.
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Post by river82 on Aug 15, 2018 23:06:22 GMT
Exactly the only thing that might and probably will stop that is if Anthem fails. Because I can see EA stepping in and closing Bioware down if Anthem does fail especially after what happened with MEA and don't forget Bioware was downsized after what happened there so we can't exactly say they won't go one step further next time especially as EA have a track record of doing so. I don't want Anthem to fail but not because I like MMO's because I don't but because I believe the future's of both Dragon Age and Mass Effect are counting on it. Who says that if anthem is a roaring success any future dragon age / mass effect would bear resemblance to what they were. DA games don't bear much resemblance to each other in any case.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Aug 15, 2018 23:17:51 GMT
Who says that if anthem is a roaring success any future dragon age / mass effect would bear resemblance to what they were. DA games don't bear much resemblance to each other in any case. Indeed I was referring to Biowaer's future rather than what ME and DA would be like becvause if Anthem fails there ma ynot be a Bioware to make any future ME or DA games. That's what I was referring too. Because there's a real risk that EA might shut them down. I don't want it to happen and I hope it doesn't but they could be treading on some pretty thin ice if they're not careful was all I meant. They can't risk Anthem failing.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 16, 2018 1:56:33 GMT
Which is exactly what I said. I don't see the difference, a little debate is fine but don't derail the thread. Your wording, taken out of context, could be read as throwing the door wide open, as compared to Sofa's clearly limited wording. But if your intent was to reiterate what Sofa said, I'll move on. I'm not clear on what you are disagreeing with. Hype and Skepticism are segregated. Taking Sofa's "limited sorties" as the threshold, anything that goes too far can be, and I believe, has been, moved from one thread to the other. I admit that I might have taken a long detour, but ultimately, I was agreeing with your first statement, that separating the threads serves a purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 9:34:08 GMT
I disagree, we're not going to start a thread with the caveat that no one is allowed to debate with anyone. I'm not clear on what you are disagreeing with. Hype and Skepticism are segregated. Taking Sofa's "limited sorties" as the threshold, anything that goes too far can be, and I believe, has been, moved from one thread to the other. I admit that I might have taken a long detour, but ultimately, I was agreeing with your first statement, that separating the threads serves a purpose. To be more specific I disagreed with the second paragraph, 'So saying it’s fine to post disagreement in the hype thread just opens the door to a lot of nonsense being posted and admin intervention.' As you said we're making the same point, so let's move on.
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Post by goishen on Aug 16, 2018 15:35:43 GMT
I doubt it, there's not enough "there" there. Whenever I start to play Borderlands, regardless of how pumped I am for the situation, I'm always left with a feeling of "meh" after a couple'a hours of playing. Even on their most recent effort, which had arguably the best storytelling of the entire series. That's not even counting how meh I'd feel about playing Destiny or The Division. I'd like to say I'm optimistic about BioWare's future. I'm just not. Is the "there" you're referring to primarily the story? I do think Anthem will likely provide a serviceable story, and that players will have to wait until the next Dragon Age before getting a proper Bioware story. Still curious as to what we'll be shown at Pax West. There stuff that I'm talking about encompasses all of it. Gameplay, storytelling, etc. If you take a look at any of those videos, all you see is what? Somebody standing there in a semi-static position shooting at things. That's great for those of you that enjoy that kind'a stuff. In my mind's eye? It'll get boring real fucking quick. I don't care how active and prescient the storytelling is... If the gameplay sucks, the entire game's gonna suffer. And BioWare isn't known for their prescient storytelling anyway. They're known for their good storytelling and fun gameplay. One of those falls, the other doesn't matter.
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Post by NotN7 on Aug 16, 2018 21:20:32 GMT
Is the "there" you're referring to primarily the story? I do think Anthem will likely provide a serviceable story, and that players will have to wait until the next Dragon Age before getting a proper Bioware story. Still curious as to what we'll be shown at Pax West. There stuff that I'm talking about encompasses all of it. Gameplay, storytelling, etc. If you take a look at any of those videos, all you see is what? Somebody standing there in a semi-static position shooting at things. That's great for those of you that enjoy that kind'a stuff. In my mind's eye? It'll get boring real fucking quick. I don't care how active and prescient the storytelling is... If the gameplay sucks, the entire game's gonna suffer. And BioWare isn't known for their prescient storytelling anyway. They're known for their good storytelling and fun gameplay. One of those falls, the other doesn't matter. I agree, there is not enough out there to really make a true opinion.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 17, 2018 9:38:14 GMT
And BioWare isn't known for their prescient storytelling anyway. They're known for their good storytelling and fun gameplay. One of those falls, the other doesn't matter. I would argue that before their most recent games they were quite the opposite; visionary storytelling (well, within the context of gaming at any rate) and abysmal gameplay. The original ME/DA games were pretty unique experiences with shitty combat. I hear what you're saying though, Bio needs to refine and deepen the combat system shown in the previous gameplay trailer. And I think they need to show a bit of how the story works and interactions with companions within the hub, since many are on the fence until they can get a sense of depth on that side of things.
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Post by lennybusker on Aug 17, 2018 11:40:41 GMT
There stuff that I'm talking about encompasses all of it. Gameplay, storytelling, etc. If you take a look at any of those videos, all you see is what? Somebody standing there in a semi-static position shooting at things. That's great for those of you that enjoy that kind'a stuff. In my mind's eye? It'll get boring real fucking quick. I don't care how active and prescient the storytelling is... If the gameplay sucks, the entire game's gonna suffer. And BioWare isn't known for their prescient storytelling anyway. They're known for their good storytelling and fun gameplay. One of those falls, the other doesn't matter. I agree, there is not enough out there to really make a true opinion. That's what's cracking me up about people being hype over anything about the game so far. How can you be excited over basically nothing? There hasn't been anything shown yet, we know essentially nothing about the game other than Bioware, shared world shooter, mech suits.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 17, 2018 12:54:39 GMT
I agree, there is not enough out there to really make a true opinion. That's what's cracking me up about people being hype over anything about the game so far. How can you be excited over basically nothing? There hasn't been anything shown yet, we know essentially nothing about the game other than Bioware, shared world shooter, mech suits. Of course the same argument can be made regarding those screaming this game sucks.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 17, 2018 16:19:33 GMT
That's what's cracking me up about people being hype over anything about the game so far. How can you be excited over basically nothing? Because hopeful, optimistic anticipation is more fun that fear, uncertainty, and doubt? Look, I'm with you to the extent that a statement like, "I know I'll love Anthem because it will deliver X", where X is unknown, or worse, strongly hinted as unlikely, is dumb. It's just as dumb as, "I know I'll hate Anthem because it won't deliver X", where X is unknown, or worse, strongly hinted as likely. And there's a difference between that reaction to unknown X, and loving or hating Anthem over a known Y. Hating Anthem over a known Y -- someone who has no interest in loot shooters, or someone who gets deathly sick in first-person mode, as two examples -- is totally fine. Eagerly anticipating Anthem because they've always wanted to play an Iron Man flying suits type game is also fine. But where I draw the line is hating or hyping that fact Y over and over and over and over and over and over again, endlessly. Particularly when the repetition has an ulterior motive, like getting one over on EA, or bitter disappointment over ME, or being a Bioware fanboy beyond all reason. or some other trauma unrelated to Anthem.
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Post by tjmitchem on Aug 17, 2018 17:37:36 GMT
I agree, there is not enough out there to really make a true opinion. we know essentially nothing about the game other than Bioware, shared world shooter, mech suits. Those three things are more than enough for me to get a little hyped over it
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Post by helios969 on Aug 17, 2018 18:25:58 GMT
I agree, there is not enough out there to really make a true opinion. That's what's cracking me up about people being hype over anything about the game so far. How can you be excited over basically nothing? There hasn't been anything shown yet, we know essentially nothing about the game other than Bioware, shared world shooter, mech suits. To answer you more specifically: Beautiful immersive environment(s), yep...most definitely the mech suits, at worst an interesting serviceable story (probably) with good characters, and of most importance 3rd person combat POV. That last thing is the single biggest reason I generally don't play these types of games. And the 1st POV for the Fort Tarsis portions is really a nonissue since it's the herky-jerks of combat that creates problems for most. I'm hyped because right now I see a game I can enjoy with so little known...and I see amazing potential for it to be a stellar game (but, hey since this is the skepticism thread maybe it ends up untapped). EDIT: Also, no f*cking pay-to-win loot box RNG store BS. That alone is a reason to support Anthem if you're even remotely interested. A huge success following this path can demonstrate to the corporations and shareholders such lousy practices are not needed to be profitable. I'll buy the game on that principle alone.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2018 19:10:35 GMT
That's what's cracking me up about people being hype over anything about the game so far. How can you be excited over basically nothing? There hasn't been anything shown yet, we know essentially nothing about the game other than Bioware, shared world shooter, mech suits. To answer you more specifically: Beautiful immersive environment(s), yep...most definitely the mech suits, at worst an interesting serviceable story (probably) with good characters, and of most importance 3rd person combat POV. That last thing is the single biggest reason I generally don't play these types of games. And the 1st POV for the Fort Tarsis portions is really a nonissue since it's the herky-jerks of combat that creates problems for most. I'm hyped because right now I see a game I can enjoy with so little known...and I see amazing potential for it to be a stellar game (but, hey since this is the skepticism thread maybe it ends up untapped). I've played games with absolutely beautiful environments, yet were incredibly boring to play. I care nothing for or against mech suits Bioware can and has done far worse than an "interesting serviceable story with good characters" So I definitely NEED more details before I could get at all hyped about that. Combat POV is so far down my list of priorities I can't even see it over the pile of other concerns I have that haven't been addressed at all thus far. I see a game that has absolutely nothing in it that I had come to enjoy in Bioware games, or even RPGs in general. In fact, it looks to be just about everything those AREN'T. And Bioware seems to be in no hurry to show me I'm wrong. Which kinda tells me I'm not.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 17, 2018 19:35:27 GMT
To answer you more specifically: Beautiful immersive environment(s), yep...most definitely the mech suits, at worst an interesting serviceable story (probably) with good characters, and of most importance 3rd person combat POV. That last thing is the single biggest reason I generally don't play these types of games. And the 1st POV for the Fort Tarsis portions is really a nonissue since it's the herky-jerks of combat that creates problems for most. I'm hyped because right now I see a game I can enjoy with so little known...and I see amazing potential for it to be a stellar game (but, hey since this is the skepticism thread maybe it ends up untapped). I've played games with absolutely beautiful environments, yet were incredibly boring to play. I care nothing for or against mech suits Bioware can and has done far worse than an "interesting serviceable story with good characters" So I definitely NEED more details before I could get at all hyped about that. Combat POV is so far down my list of priorities I can't even see it over the pile of other concerns I have that haven't been addressed at all thus far. I see a game that has absolutely nothing in it that I had come to enjoy in Bioware games, or even RPGs in general. In fact, it looks to be just about everything those AREN'T. And Bioware seems to be in no hurry to show me I'm wrong. Which kinda tells me I'm not. Shrug...not the game for you then...or maybe you think if you rant enough Bioware will revamp the game to suit your personal taste(s)...'cause that's the impression I get from many people around here. If you're looking for an ME/DA experience...this isn't it.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2018 19:37:12 GMT
I've played games with absolutely beautiful environments, yet were incredibly boring to play. I care nothing for or against mech suits Bioware can and has done far worse than an "interesting serviceable story with good characters" So I definitely NEED more details before I could get at all hyped about that. Combat POV is so far down my list of priorities I can't even see it over the pile of other concerns I have that haven't been addressed at all thus far. I see a game that has absolutely nothing in it that I had come to enjoy in Bioware games, or even RPGs in general. In fact, it looks to be just about everything those AREN'T. And Bioware seems to be in no hurry to show me I'm wrong. Which kinda tells me I'm not. Shrug...not the game for you then... or maybe you think if you rant enough Bioware will revamp the game to suit your personal taste(s)...'cause that's the impression I get from many people around here. If you're looking for an ME/DA experience...this isn't it. You'll note I don't post much in the Anthem threads. Try again. What I'm looking for is a good role playing experience, as I wrote. Bioware USED to be able to deliver that.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 17, 2018 20:11:26 GMT
Shrug...not the game for you then... or maybe you think if you rant enough Bioware will revamp the game to suit your personal taste(s)...'cause that's the impression I get from many people around here. If you're looking for an ME/DA experience...this isn't it. You'll note I don't post much in the Anthem threads. Try again. What I'm looking for is a good role playing experience, as I wrote. Bioware USED to be able to deliver that. Fair enough. Maybe they will again. It's not like I don't have my own reservations regarding Bioware and the trend they've shown over the past couple iterations. The sucky part is that there is little in the way of options for those of us that prioritize good RP and story above all else. I get one of those about every 2-3 years...so I've explored other types of gaming (probably a bit out of desperation and discovered I enjoy smart combat...ironically something Bio has achieved (though I acknowledge that's subjective). Obviously my hope is that storywise Anthem really delivers, but I've learned to temper such expectations.
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Post by NotN7 on Aug 17, 2018 20:22:02 GMT
That's what's cracking me up about people being hype over anything about the game so far. How can you be excited over basically nothing? There hasn't been anything shown yet, we know essentially nothing about the game other than Bioware, shared world shooter, mech suits. To answer you more specifically: Beautiful immersive environment(s), yep...most definitely the mech suits, at worst an interesting serviceable story (probably) with good characters, and of most importance 3rd person combat POV. That last thing is the single biggest reason I generally don't play these types of games. And the 1st POV for the Fort Tarsis portions is really a nonissue since it's the herky-jerks of combat that creates problems for most. I'm hyped because right now I see a game I can enjoy with so little known...and I see amazing potential for it to be a stellar game (but, hey since this is the skepticism thread maybe it ends up untapped). Sorry good on you but as for myself Bioware has yet prove to me the " Our world your story" so till then i'm a skeptic.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 17, 2018 21:23:13 GMT
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helios969
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by helios969 on Aug 17, 2018 21:51:25 GMT
"Huge amount of pressure to make Anthem a truly revolutionary game..." Huh, maybe this belongs in the hype thread. Despite generally enjoying the DAI and MEA experience I didn't feel like those games received A+ effort to fully realize their potential. Maybe that pressure to deliver will finally get them to deliver a total experience.
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Post by river82 on Aug 17, 2018 22:49:06 GMT
The sucky part is that there is little in the way of options for those of us that prioritize good RP and story above all else. I get one of those about every 2-3 years... That used to be true a decade ago. These days it just means you're not looking hard enough
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