Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Feb 20, 2018 20:44:22 GMT
3) That is exactly why they don't talk to us. People whine their games are all the same, but when they try different thing people then whine they aren't the same company anymore. People were complaining about BioWare not being the same with Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 was prior to EA and the majority of development of Origins was also prior to EA but the same complaints as post-EA are there. I cannot read people's minds so I don't know why they closed their forums. Show shutting down a forum means you lose the respect of your community and fans? Or going back and altering the ending to address the majority of feedback they got alienates their fans as well? That's funny. The complaint I recall about DAO was the (ta da!) intrusive pushing of DLC in the form of Levi Dryden. And for ME1 it was the 3-installation limit on the disc DRM But what do I know?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 20, 2018 21:09:12 GMT
3) That is exactly why they don't talk to us. People whine their games are all the same, but when they try different thing people then whine they aren't the same company anymore. People were complaining about BioWare not being the same with Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 was prior to EA and the majority of development of Origins was also prior to EA but the same complaints as post-EA are there. I cannot read people's minds so I don't know why they closed their forums. Show shutting down a forum means you lose the respect of your community and fans? Or going back and altering the ending to address the majority of feedback they got alienates their fans as well? That's funny. The complaint I recall about DAO was the (ta da!) intrusive pushing of DLC in the form of Levi Dryden. And for ME1 it was the 3-installation limit on the disc DRM But what do I know? There were plenty of people upset that they were moving away from DnD and Star Wars not to mention moving to voiced characters instead of just leaving the text for them. There were those things you mentioned, but there was more then just that too.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 20, 2018 21:24:49 GMT
CDPR has made one good game so we'll see what they can do next. This. And not all liked it, like I didnt.. I'm old CP2020 RPG player, and I'm hoping they make tons of better than TW3 was for me.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 20, 2018 21:28:51 GMT
CDPR has made one good game so we'll see what they can do next. This. And not all liked it, like I didnt.. I'm old CP2020 RPG player, and I'm hoping they make tons of better than TW3 was for me. You really have to like the world Geralt exists in or it's tough to get through. I barely made it through Witcher 2 so I was skeptical of Witcher 3 but, overall, enjoyed it enough to play it through a Triss and Yen romance respectively with the last one including the SP DLCs. I kept waiting for the "magic" some were seeing in it to grab me and never found it, so it's been over 2 years since I've picked it up again.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 20, 2018 21:31:33 GMT
1) Your response is exactly what I am talking about. If it isnt clear to you by now that Anthem will be MP focused then I guess you just need Bioware to hold your hand and spell it out for you. 2) CDPR said that CP2077 will have online elements but also made it clear that at its core, CP2077 will be SP focused. 3) Bioware prior to ME1 was put on a pedestal as one of those devs that makes things turn gold for anything they touch. By joining EA and other actions, they eroded their trust with the gamers. That is of their own doing. Devs like CDPR and Rockstar has maintained their trust with gamers. While they still have critics, most of the attitude towards Red Dead Redemption 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 is that they are highly anticipated games that people will enjoy and will likely be top contenders for GOTY and will also push their perspective genres to the next level. That same level of optimism isnt shared with Anthem and I wonder why? 1) Because I want to have more information means that I want BioWare to hold my hand and tell me? Give me a break I don't believe in assuming everything is going to be based how I predict it. I give everyone the exact same benefit of the doubt why because things in life changes. Just like if I had to make an assumption about Cyberpunk 2077 it wouldn't be a good one based on my experiences with the Witcher franchise and some of CDPR's current choices, but I am waiting to know more about that game too. 2) They haven't given me anymore of a reason to trust them over BioWare. They have done things recently that I don't like so why should I trust one company that is doing what I consider questionable things over another that I think has done things I consider questionable? 3) Please get your history right, BioWare was pretty much a hostile takeover by EA and they had zero say in the matter. As far as I can tell the majority of BioWare's actions was to try and give players more of what they were asking for, but it seems with the BioWare fanbase anymore if you don't give people exactly what they want and ignore everyone else they have sold out because that was something that ruined the game for them and they don't care that others were asking for that. I personally hate exploration in BioWare games, but after Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, and a little after Mass Effect 3 that is what people were claiming was "required" to make a good RPG. So BioWare listened and now people don't like the consequences of BioWare adding content like that. Just because one developer can do it well does not mean all developers can. You lost me with Rockstar. They have done more to ruin their reputation then EA or BioWare has over the last year. From removing mod support without warning from GTAV and how they abandoned single player to focus on money grabbing their online content. The people I know that loved the GTA games are having serious reservations about the next Red Dead game because they fear modding with be gone completely and single player will be abandoned again in favor on gouging people with online content prices.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 21, 2018 0:21:41 GMT
If you don't like mayo and pickles, this is the perfect thread to discuss that.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 21, 2018 0:24:57 GMT
The only thing you can 'trust' any development studio or publisher to do is take the course of action they think will make them the most money. All major developers and publishers are transitioning towards an online-based, 'games as a service' business model, because that is what makes them the most money.
In the West, going forward, our best hope for single-player-focused RPGs is most likely going to be smaller developers, who cater to a niche market and rely on crowdfunding. Or, you could look to Japan, where single player games are still going strong, and hope that publishers like Namco Bandai and Capcom continue to publish stuff in the vein of Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 21, 2018 3:49:43 GMT
And Bioware have said that Anthem will includ e traditional Biowarestyle characters and storytelling. Of course these statements are consistently ignored by by those with an agenda. Traditional how? Bioware has been all over the map storytelling-wise recently. Traditional, as in, "not Bethesda".
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 21, 2018 4:29:23 GMT
1) Your response is exactly what I am talking about. If it isnt clear to you by now that Anthem will be MP focused then I guess you just need Bioware to hold your hand and spell it out for you. 2) CDPR said that CP2077 will have online elements but also made it clear that at its core, CP2077 will be SP focused. 3) Bioware prior to ME1 was put on a pedestal as one of those devs that makes things turn gold for anything they touch. By joining EA and other actions, they eroded their trust with the gamers. That is of their own doing. Devs like CDPR and Rockstar has maintained their trust with gamers. While they still have critics, most of the attitude towards Red Dead Redemption 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 is that they are highly anticipated games that people will enjoy and will likely be top contenders for GOTY and will also push their perspective genres to the next level. That same level of optimism isnt shared with Anthem and I wonder why? 1) Because I want to have more information means that I want BioWare to hold my hand and tell me? Give me a break I don't believe in assuming everything is going to be based how I predict it. I give everyone the exact same benefit of the doubt why because things in life changes. Just like if I had to make an assumption about Cyberpunk 2077 it wouldn't be a good one based on my experiences with the Witcher franchise and some of CDPR's current choices, but I am waiting to know more about that game too. 2) They haven't given me anymore of a reason to trust them over BioWare. They have done things recently that I don't like so why should I trust one company that is doing what I consider questionable things over another that I think has done things I consider questionable? 3) Please get your history right, BioWare was pretty much a hostile takeover by EA and they had zero say in the matter. As far as I can tell the majority of BioWare's actions was to try and give players more of what they were asking for, but it seems with the BioWare fanbase anymore if you don't give people exactly what they want and ignore everyone else they have sold out because that was something that ruined the game for them and they don't care that others were asking for that. I personally hate exploration in BioWare games, but after Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, and a little after Mass Effect 3 that is what people were claiming was "required" to make a good RPG. So BioWare listened and now people don't like the consequences of BioWare adding content like that. Just because one developer can do it well does not mean all developers can. You lost me with Rockstar. They have done more to ruin their reputation then EA or BioWare has over the last year. From removing mod support without warning from GTAV and how they abandoned single player to focus on money grabbing their online content. The people I know that loved the GTA games are having serious reservations about the next Red Dead game because they fear modding with be gone completely and single player will be abandoned again in favor on gouging people with online content prices. You are right about R*, they did choose the MP route over SP with GTAV and not producing any SP DLC. R* gets away with it cause unlike CDPR and Bioware games, R* has a large casual gamer/dudebro fanbase that will enjoy anything GTA related cause it is just one of those cultural things that has mass appeal like Madden and NBA2K. Red Dead Redemption doesnt have the same large backing that GTA has so if R* pulls some MT fest with RDR2, I hope they get the same treatment EA got with Battlefront 2. Its cool to bash EA, but how far will gaming media go to bash Rockstar?
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2018 5:29:04 GMT
Traditional how? Bioware has been all over the map storytelling-wise recently. Traditional, as in, "not Bethesda". Wouldn't Bethesda need to tell stories in order to have a storytelling tradition?
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 21, 2018 5:55:00 GMT
1) Your response is exactly what I am talking about. If it isnt clear to you by now that Anthem will be MP focused then I guess you just need Bioware to hold your hand and spell it out for you. 2) CDPR said that CP2077 will have online elements but also made it clear that at its core, CP2077 will be SP focused. 3) Bioware prior to ME1 was put on a pedestal as one of those devs that makes things turn gold for anything they touch. By joining EA and other actions, they eroded their trust with the gamers. That is of their own doing. Devs like CDPR and Rockstar has maintained their trust with gamers. While they still have critics, most of the attitude towards Red Dead Redemption 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 is that they are highly anticipated games that people will enjoy and will likely be top contenders for GOTY and will also push their perspective genres to the next level. That same level of optimism isnt shared with Anthem and I wonder why? They didn't join EA, they were bought, but I know the "joining" narrative is important for some people. CDPR has made one good game so we'll see what they can do next. CDPR made 3 good games. Only one of them became mainstream.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 21, 2018 6:30:16 GMT
They didn't join EA, they were bought, but I know the "joining" narrative is important for some people. CDPR has made one good game so we'll see what they can do next. CDPR made 3 good games. Only one of them became mainstream. Witcher and Witcher 2 were average to slightly above average respectively. Witcher 3 is their first good game. I've played them all.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 21, 2018 6:39:48 GMT
CDPR made 3 good games. Only one of them became mainstream. Witcher and Witcher 2 were average to slightly above average respectively. Witcher 3 is their first good game. I've played them all. Its funny, but to me The Witcher 2 was the best of the three, but that was because I really don't like open world games and for me The Witcher 3 gave me the same open world feelings as any other open world game I play and I liked how they handled the major choices by nullifying them and ending up at the same spot regardless of the choice the player made. In my circle of friends one thing that is held against the first two was the amount of bugs and fixes needed for them. I know when the second game was released I pretty much had to download it off Steam a second time because of how the packaged the game and needed an eight gigabyte patch which never worked properly for I would black screen so after two months I got a refund from Steam. A lot of people will look past the first game because it was the first one they released, but they don't give them the same benefit of the doubt with the second game.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 21, 2018 6:47:28 GMT
If Bioware can incorporate decent story content in an online game, that'll be quite an accomplishment. But I'm skeptical since they've had a hard time of it lately in their single player games.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 21, 2018 7:53:44 GMT
Witcher and Witcher 2 were average to slightly above average respectively. Witcher 3 is their first good game. I've played them all. Its funny, but to me The Witcher 2 was the best of the three, but that was because I really don't like open world games and for me The Witcher 3 gave me the same open world feelings as any other open world game I play and I liked how they handled the major choices by nullifying them and ending up at the same spot regardless of the choice the player made. For me too, TW2 was much better than TW3. TW2 started with a blast, joy to play although I didnt finish it either (around 75% maybe), but TW3 is just... I have no incentive in it at all, just to wander around earth landscape, and the drab music didnt help at all. Here DAI wins hands down for me.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 21, 2018 12:49:14 GMT
If Bioware can incorporate decent story content in an online game, that'll be quite an accomplishment. But I'm skeptical since they've had a hard time of it lately in their single player games. I think they did it well with The Old Republic, it definitely took time to iron out the endgame after having a good leveling campaign so it has been proven in that case that BioWare can put a good story into a genre that doesn't have a good history of having one. I think there have been multiple reasons for the not so great as before story telling of the last couple of games. To me right now the biggest problem is trying to fill a lot of space without having an structure so if they can find a way to implement structure instead of a sandbox I think there is a good chance of it happening.
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 21, 2018 13:01:40 GMT
I've been a fan of Bioware for a long time, and I have no issue with the action RPG direction. I enjoyed Inquisition and Mass Effect 2 a lot, with them easily being my favourite Bioware games. But I have absolutely 0 interest in Anthem and it is incredibly unlikely that I will purchase it.
They may have claimed that it will contain "traditional Bioware storytelling" but let's be honest and look at the facts. What online multiplayer focused game has ever managed to have a story and characters that come close to what the best story-driven single player games offer? Multiplayer focused games like MOBA's, Destiny, Overwatch and MMO's are infamous for having incredibly weak in-game storytelling and largely relying on books, comics and other mediums outside the game to tell their story and develop their characters.
Star Wars: The Old Republic had "traditional Bioware storytelling" but while some of its content was good it ultimately fell flat because that type of storytelling didn't work with a stagnant, multiplayer focused world. Why is there any reason to believe that Anthem will be different?
When I see Anthem I don't see a Bioware game being published by EA, I see an EA game being developed by Bioware. Obviously there is nothing wrong with a company trying something new but the market Anthem is clearly targeted at is completely saturated, while RPG's are increasingly rare. The only silver liming is that Obsidian is stepping up to the plate, with Deadfire looking very promising and improving on some of Biowares staples with the planned companion relationship system.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 21, 2018 13:37:51 GMT
CDPR made 3 good games. Only one of them became mainstream. Witcher and Witcher 2 were average to slightly above average respectively. Witcher 3 is their first good game. I've played them all. 1) Have you seen the review scores for TW1 and TW2? They werent in the 90s but high 80s is not "slightly above average". If if a 89% avg review score is "slightly above average" then I dont know what 2) The key is that CDPR has gotten better with each game. Yes, TW2 and even TW1 did certain things better, but overall, CDPR has been on an upward trend the past 3 games, unlike Bioware that had MEA as a flop, but had a hit with DAI, a slight success with ME3, but a highly criticized DA2, and a massive success with ME2. With CDPR, they have been projecting upward so there is no surprise Cyberpunk 2077 is highly anticipated whereas Anthem is being anticipated but with great concern and skepticism. 3) Hell, even the TW3 mini game Gwent is popular and continues to show CDPRs upward trend. 4) You can be a contrarian all you want and diminish the success of CDPR by claiming they only had 1 good game. But yoir view doesnt change the fact that CDPR currently has a better reputation than Bioware in terms of quality output and Cyberpunk 2077 is probabaly more anticipated than Anthem and people generally have a more optimistic view of Cyberpunk 2077 than they do Anthem. 5) I dont know how we got on the topic of CDPR (Probably my own doing) but for some people, it seems to be a kneejerk reaction to discredit or diminish the success and hype of CDPR. Instead of discrediting CDPR, the focus should be on what is CDPR doing that is giving then such reputation that Bioware is failing to do?
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 21, 2018 14:01:46 GMT
Witcher and Witcher 2 were average to slightly above average respectively. Witcher 3 is their first good game. I've played them all. 1) Have you seen the review scores for TW1 and TW2? They werent in the 90s but high 80s is not "slightly above average". If if a 89% avg review score is "slightly above average" then I dont know what 2) The key is that CDPR has gotten better with each game. Yes, TW2 and even TW1 did certain things better, but overall, CDPR has been on an upward trend the past 3 games, unlike Bioware that had MEA as a flop, but had a hit with DAI, a slight success with ME3, but a highly criticized DA2, and a massive success with ME2. With CDPR, they have been projecting upward so there is no surprise Cyberpunk 2077 is highly anticipated whereas Anthem is being anticipated but with great concern and skepticism. 3) Hell, even the TW3 mini game Gwent is popular and continues to show CDPRs upward trend. 4) You can be a contrarian all you want and diminish the success of CDPR by claiming they only had 1 good game. But yoir view doesnt change the fact that CDPR currently has a better reputation than Bioware in terms of quality output and Cyberpunk 2077 is probabaly more anticipated than Anthem and people generally have a more optimistic view of Cyberpunk 2077 than they do Anthem. 5) I dont know how we got on the topic of CDPR (Probably my own doing) but for some people, it seems to be a kneejerk reaction to discredit or diminish the success and hype of CDPR. Instead of discrediting CDPR, the focus should be on what is CDPR doing that is giving then such reputation that Bioware is failing to do? 1) Just curious does that then mean that all prior BioWare games since EA are then good too based on their review scores with the only real miss Andromeda? For review scores seem to line up. 2) Mass Effect 3 was more then just a slight success though. If the reports are correct it was the best selling BioWare game of all time. Just because the internet didn't like it sales numbers prove that people were liking the game. Just like the sales numbers for The Witcher 1 proved that people liked that game too even if the internet was hating on it for its portrayal of women. The only game that probably is lower for BioWare and that is just guess work because EA doesn't release sales numbers. 4) CDPR also has a reputation of needing to re-release their games with all the patches because there are so many of them. Again I think people need to look outside how the internet is reacting to things anymore. 5) To me its pandering. I look back at that "12 Free DLC" stuff and how they were promoting on what they were going to give players and how people were just lapping that up about how awesome it was. Going back and looking at what that "Free DLC" was to me was nothing more then things that people claim get cut out of a game to become DLC. Even looking at their Twitter threads they are pandering the lootbox issue, but they probably internally are working on some other way to make people think they are getting something special with their games so instead of buying DLC they are buying the game because "they are the good guys". Its just marking and PR speak from them as well. Now I am not trying to put CDPR down, I am just think they aren't as great as some people make them out to be. Then again I felt the same way about BioWare when they were in the same position too all those years ago since all their stories seemed to be the same basic thing.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2018 15:21:47 GMT
CDPR has made one good game so we'll see what they can do next. This. And not all liked it, like I didnt.. I'm old CP2020 RPG player, and I'm hoping they make tons of better than TW3 was for me. Not all liked Mass Effect or Dragon Age and their sales are nowhere near the insane amount Witcher 3 made. Can you just agree to disagree in CDPR having to be bashed just because you like BioWare more or vice versa?
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majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 21, 2018 15:49:48 GMT
1) Have you seen the review scores for TW1 and TW2? They werent in the 90s but high 80s is not "slightly above average". If if a 89% avg review score is "slightly above average" then I dont know what 2) The key is that CDPR has gotten better with each game. Yes, TW2 and even TW1 did certain things better, but overall, CDPR has been on an upward trend the past 3 games, unlike Bioware that had MEA as a flop, but had a hit with DAI, a slight success with ME3, but a highly criticized DA2, and a massive success with ME2. With CDPR, they have been projecting upward so there is no surprise Cyberpunk 2077 is highly anticipated whereas Anthem is being anticipated but with great concern and skepticism. 3) Hell, even the TW3 mini game Gwent is popular and continues to show CDPRs upward trend. 4) You can be a contrarian all you want and diminish the success of CDPR by claiming they only had 1 good game. But yoir view doesnt change the fact that CDPR currently has a better reputation than Bioware in terms of quality output and Cyberpunk 2077 is probabaly more anticipated than Anthem and people generally have a more optimistic view of Cyberpunk 2077 than they do Anthem. 5) I dont know how we got on the topic of CDPR (Probably my own doing) but for some people, it seems to be a kneejerk reaction to discredit or diminish the success and hype of CDPR. Instead of discrediting CDPR, the focus should be on what is CDPR doing that is giving then such reputation that Bioware is failing to do? 1) Just curious does that then mean that all prior BioWare games since EA are then good too based on their review scores with the only real miss Andromeda? For review scores seem to line up. 2) Mass Effect 3 was more then just a slight success though. If the reports are correct it was the best selling BioWare game of all time. Just because the internet didn't like it sales numbers prove that people were liking the game. Just like the sales numbers for The Witcher 1 proved that people liked that game too even if the internet was hating on it for its portrayal of women. The only game that probably is lower for BioWare and that is just guess work because EA doesn't release sales numbers. 4) CDPR also has a reputation of needing to re-release their games with all the patches because there are so many of them. Again I think people need to look outside how the internet is reacting to things anymore. 5) To me its pandering. I look back at that "12 Free DLC" stuff and how they were promoting on what they were going to give players and how people were just lapping that up about how awesome it was. Going back and looking at what that "Free DLC" was to me was nothing more then things that people claim get cut out of a game to become DLC. Even looking at their Twitter threads they are pandering the lootbox issue, but they probably internally are working on some other way to make people think they are getting something special with their games so instead of buying DLC they are buying the game because "they are the good guys". Its just marking and PR speak from them as well. Now I am not trying to put CDPR down, I am just think they aren't as great as some people make them out to be. Then again I felt the same way about BioWare when they were in the same position too all those years ago since all their stories seemed to be the same basic thing. There is more to the glamour of CDPR than their 12 free DLCs. Yes, it was a PR pander then again, it worked. I dont speak for everyone, but I like CDPR because IMO, they arent afraid to make games with strong adult themes. I dont mean just sex, but just the tone and atmosphere they put in them. Take rape for example, one of the most horrible acts a human can commit to. TW3 was not afraid to implement the notion of rape in order to highlight the fact that the world was at war and one of the unfortunate consequences if war is rape and population displacement which we also saw. Again, just my opinion but I feel that CDPR treats me like an adult that can handle certain content whereas I feel like Bioware is a bit restrictive and cares a lot about their image as a progressive dev and not wanting to offend anyone. Bioware follows the formula of the heros journey where everything is black and white and it is your lone character that can save everyone and make everything right. In Witcher series it is less about the hero journey and more of a person oit for his own personal reasons and no matter all the good deeds you do, when the game ends, the state of the world is still dire and nothing you can do will change that. Often times you are presented with a bad choice or another bad choice like Radovid or Emhyr. Bioware would NEVER put the player in such position. Second, I believe CDPR understands how to do sidequest in an open world setting and make them feel like important pieces to the story. Hell, some of the best moments came from side quest. This makes people optimistic for Cyberpunl 2077. Andromeda and DAI were often criticized for having MMO style side quest and now with Anthem being MP focused, I just do not see how Anthem can have similar personal and engaging side quest in a shared world where your decisions cannot really change things around you, same with main missions. How can Anthem have a quest line similar to the Bloody Baron and have the varying endings to it in a shared world? Third, CDPR has proven that they can do open world. Yes, TW3 wasnt perfect and much improvement can be made, but TW3 did show that open world rpgs can be done. Bioware still struggles with this concept. Finally, this may seem immature but in a lot of ways, CDPR is the anti Bioware. Not including mobile games, male gamers still make up the majority of gamers and for a lot of males, they see games like TW3 as masculine and not afraid to be a game that caters to males. Bioware is known to be inclusive to females and LGBT gamers which is a good thing. However there is a large segment hetero male gamers who will gravitate to games like GTA5 and TW3 due to the hypermasculinty nature of them. You may agree or disagree but CDPR has hit a sweet spot for those male gamers who still desire for games to be made for them and cater to them. Judging from the concept art and teaser trailer, it appears that Cyberpunk 2077 will continue the trend of hypermasculinty in their games. So there is more to the popularity of CDPR than simply 12 free DLCs.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,907
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,907
Iakus
21,081
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2018 16:11:18 GMT
1) Just curious does that then mean that all prior BioWare games since EA are then good too based on their review scores with the only real miss Andromeda? For review scores seem to line up. 2) Mass Effect 3 was more then just a slight success though. If the reports are correct it was the best selling BioWare game of all time. Just because the internet didn't like it sales numbers prove that people were liking the game. Just like the sales numbers for The Witcher 1 proved that people liked that game too even if the internet was hating on it for its portrayal of women. The only game that probably is lower for BioWare and that is just guess work because EA doesn't release sales numbers. 4) CDPR also has a reputation of needing to re-release their games with all the patches because there are so many of them. Again I think people need to look outside how the internet is reacting to things anymore. 5) To me its pandering. I look back at that "12 Free DLC" stuff and how they were promoting on what they were going to give players and how people were just lapping that up about how awesome it was. Going back and looking at what that "Free DLC" was to me was nothing more then things that people claim get cut out of a game to become DLC. Even looking at their Twitter threads they are pandering the lootbox issue, but they probably internally are working on some other way to make people think they are getting something special with their games so instead of buying DLC they are buying the game because "they are the good guys". Its just marking and PR speak from them as well. Now I am not trying to put CDPR down, I am just think they aren't as great as some people make them out to be. Then again I felt the same way about BioWare when they were in the same position too all those years ago since all their stories seemed to be the same basic thing. There is more to the glamour of CDPR than their 12 free DLCs. Yes, it was a PR pander then again, it worked. I dont speak for everyone, but I like CDPR because IMO, they arent afraid to make games with strong adult themes. I dont mean just sex, but just the tone and atmosphere they put in them. Take rape for example, one of the most horrible acts a human can commit to. TW3 was not afraid to implement the notion of rape in order to highlight the fact that the world was at war and one of the unfortunate consequences if war is rape and population displacement which we also saw. Again, just my opinion but I feel that CDPR treats me like an adult that can handle certain content whereas I feel like Bioware is a bit restrictive and cares a lot about their image as a progressive dev and not wanting to offend anyone. Bioware follows the formula of the heros journey where everything is black and white and it is your lone character that can save everyone and make everything right. In Witcher series it is less about the hero journey and more of a person oit for his own personal reasons and no matter all the good deeds you do, when the game ends, the state of the world is still dire and nothing you can do will change that. Often times you are presented with a bad choice or another bad choice like Radovid or Emhyr. Bioware would NEVER put the player in such position.Second, I believe CDPR understands how to do sidequest in an open world setting and make them feel like important pieces to the story. Hell, some of the best moments came from side quest. This makes people optimistic for Cyberpunl 2077. Andromeda and DAI were often criticized for having MMO style side quest and now with Anthem being MP focused, I just do not see how Anthem can have similar personal and engaging side quest in a shared world where your decisions cannot really change things around you, same with main missions. How can Anthem have a quest line similar to the Bloody Baron and have the varying endings to it in a shared world? Third, CDPR has proven that they can do open world. Yes, TW3 wasnt perfect and much improvement can be made, but TW3 did show that open world rpgs can be done. Bioware still struggles with this concept. Finally, this may seem immature but in a lot of ways, CDPR is the anti Bioware. Not including mobile games, male gamers still make up the majority of gamers and for a lot of males, they see games like TW3 as masculine and not afraid to be a game that caters to males. Bioware is known to be inclusive to females and LGBT gamers which is a good thing. However there is a large segment hetero male gamers who will gravitate to games like GTA5 and TW3 due to the hypermasculinty nature of them. You may agree or disagree but CDPR has hit a sweet spot for those male gamers who still desire for games to be made for them and cater to them. Judging from the concept art and teaser trailer, it appears that Cyberpunk 2077 will continue the trend of hypermasculinty in their games. So there is more to the popularity of CDPR than simply 12 free DLCs. Frankly, I'd like to see a balance. I don't like hanging out in grimdark worlds where nothing you do stays fixed. Otoh, I don't need to play the Hero of Destiny who saves the universe. How about an adventure where, while you can't fix everything, you can make things better, at least for your own little patch of the world? But yeah, I don't see how any quest, main or side, will have any meaningful effect in a shared world where everyone else's choices have to be accounted for as well.
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samhain444
1,669
April 2017
samhain444
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 21, 2018 16:34:34 GMT
Witcher and Witcher 2 were average to slightly above average respectively. Witcher 3 is their first good game. I've played them all. 1) Have you seen the review scores for TW1 and TW2? They werent in the 90s but high 80s is not "slightly above average". If if a 89% avg review score is "slightly above average" then I dont know what 2) The key is that CDPR has gotten better with each game. Yes, TW2 and even TW1 did certain things better, but overall, CDPR has been on an upward trend the past 3 games, unlike Bioware that had MEA as a flop, but had a hit with DAI, a slight success with ME3, but a highly criticized DA2, and a massive success with ME2. With CDPR, they have been projecting upward so there is no surprise Cyberpunk 2077 is highly anticipated whereas Anthem is being anticipated but with great concern and skepticism. 3) Hell, even the TW3 mini game Gwent is popular and continues to show CDPRs upward trend. 4) You can be a contrarian all you want and diminish the success of CDPR by claiming they only had 1 good game. But yoir view doesnt change the fact that CDPR currently has a better reputation than Bioware in terms of quality output and Cyberpunk 2077 is probabaly more anticipated than Anthem and people generally have a more optimistic view of Cyberpunk 2077 than they do Anthem. 5) I dont know how we got on the topic of CDPR (Probably my own doing) but for some people, it seems to be a kneejerk reaction to discredit or diminish the success and hype of CDPR. Instead of discrediting CDPR, the focus should be on what is CDPR doing that is giving then such reputation that Bioware is failing to do? Wow, 5 separate points to defend CDPR's honor...how noble. You "heart" them, we get it, and that's OK, and me saying that Witcher and Witcher 2 were decent games does not "diminish" their success since it's merely my opinion and doesn't mean your love for them and CDPR is wrong. As for CDPR having a better reputation than BioWare? Sure, as of March 2017, CDPR overtook them in the hype category but I'm not sure how that or having the "most anticipated" game matters unless the goal is to create more bullet-points in your response. Gaming fans and its media are fickle and if there is one thing it likes more than a success story it's to alternatively trash the shit out of it in the future when said developer crosses some arbitrary "point of no return" that they'll not know they've crossed until they've crossed it. I liked "The Witcher 3", didn't love it, and am looking forward to playing both "Anthem" and "Cyberpunk 2077" when they're released. As for "Anthem" specifically, all this whinging about BioWare/EA attempting to enter the "shared-world"/"Co-op" arena reminds of how people were whinging about BioWare entering the MMO arena with "The Old Republic" but they still pulled off a BioWare-esque game within the confines of the genre. BioWare is a talented studio so I'm sure they'll bring something fun and unique to the table, as I hope CDPR does with "Cyberpunk 2077" when it's released.
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Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
8,870
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
4,951
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 21, 2018 17:20:58 GMT
This. And not all liked it, like I didnt.. I'm old CP2020 RPG player, and I'm hoping they make tons of better than TW3 was for me. Not all liked Mass Effect or Dragon Age and their sales are nowhere near the insane amount Witcher 3 made. Can you just agree to disagree in CDPR having to be bashed just because you like BioWare more or vice versa? I dont even know how to answer this So, TW3 sales numbers should made the game better for me?
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shinobiwan
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Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 21, 2018 18:15:37 GMT
1) Have you seen the review scores for TW1 and TW2? They werent in the 90s but high 80s is not "slightly above average". If if a 89% avg review score is "slightly above average" then I dont know what 2) The key is that CDPR has gotten better with each game. Yes, TW2 and even TW1 did certain things better, but overall, CDPR has been on an upward trend the past 3 games, unlike Bioware that had MEA as a flop, but had a hit with DAI, a slight success with ME3, but a highly criticized DA2, and a massive success with ME2. With CDPR, they have been projecting upward so there is no surprise Cyberpunk 2077 is highly anticipated whereas Anthem is being anticipated but with great concern and skepticism. 3) Hell, even the TW3 mini game Gwent is popular and continues to show CDPRs upward trend. 4) You can be a contrarian all you want and diminish the success of CDPR by claiming they only had 1 good game. But yoir view doesnt change the fact that CDPR currently has a better reputation than Bioware in terms of quality output and Cyberpunk 2077 is probabaly more anticipated than Anthem and people generally have a more optimistic view of Cyberpunk 2077 than they do Anthem. 5) I dont know how we got on the topic of CDPR (Probably my own doing) but for some people, it seems to be a kneejerk reaction to discredit or diminish the success and hype of CDPR. Instead of discrediting CDPR, the focus should be on what is CDPR doing that is giving then such reputation that Bioware is failing to do? Wow, 5 separate points to defend CDPR's honor...how noble. You "heart" them, we get it, and that's OK, and me saying that Witcher and Witcher 2 were decent games does not "diminish" their success since it's merely my opinion and doesn't mean your love for them and CDPR is wrong. As for CDPR having a better reputation than BioWare? Sure, as of March 2017, CDPR overtook them in the hype category but I'm not sure how that or having the "most anticipated" game matters unless the goal is to create more bullet-points in your response. Gaming fans and its media are fickle and if there is one thing it likes more than a success story it's to alternatively trash the shit out of it in the future when said developer crosses some arbitrary "point of no return" that they'll not know they've crossed until they've crossed it. I liked "The Witcher 3", didn't love it, and am looking forward to playing both "Anthem" and "Cyberpunk 2077" when they're released. As for "Anthem" specifically, all this whinging about BioWare/EA attempting to enter the "shared-world"/"Co-op" arena reminds of how people were whinging about BioWare entering the MMO arena with "The Old Republic" but they still pulled off a BioWare-esque game within the confines of the genre. BioWare is a talented studio so I'm sure they'll bring something fun and unique to the table, as I hope CDPR does with "Cyberpunk 2077" when it's released. The numbering makes his post a whole lot easier to follow than yours. I can't find a legitimate point anywhere in this rambling post. CDPR has proven its dedication to quality, improvement, and no revenue scheme nonsense. Even if you may not love it, it's impossible to deny the highly positive reception of TW3. BioWare on the other hand has proven only that its game development strategies are deeply tied to EA's frustrating revenue model (which has ruined several games now) and the quality of its work has been hit and miss, even ignoring Montreal.
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