Wulfram
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: wulfram77
Posts: 489 Likes: 837
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 2, 2018 22:35:14 GMT
A good open world
Shouldn't pester you with trash fights all the time Should have good lures to explore. Not explicit quests, but things that suggest that an area is interesting and might be worth checking out. Can be visual - as simple as an interesting looking building - dialogue or some sort of event, for example. Should have good, distinctive landmarks that help give you a sense of place. Ideally, the game should be willing to ask the player to use these landmarks for navigation occasionally, rather than relying exclusively on waypoints. Should be willing to have decent amounts of space to give the area some sort of scale. Particularly if you the player's moving at faster than foot speed. Lots of people seem to disagree with me on this one, though. Should have efficient means of fast travel for after the player has discovered a location.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 3, 2018 9:55:39 GMT
The world has to feel alive. NPCs should have routines (preferably day and night) and interact with each other. In addition to loot, exploration should lead to me uncovering an interesting story with no quest attached to it. This cannot be stressed enough! It's not absolutely mandatory for NPCs to have scripted daily routines but it helps A LOT. It's actually one of the major reasons Bethesda games feel alive. Never mind how buggy the implementation is but NPCs always do their thing. And they can be killed too. There is something deeply satisfying for me somehow to see my FO4 provisioners on the road. Often they are engaged in combat fending off raiders and critters. They thank me if I help them. They actually walk the length if their routes. Caravan traders come to my settlements if I place trading posts. But they don't just magically appear there. I can run into them anywhere. Enemies are always enhanced in combat with each other. I might see a Brotherhood aircraft getting shot down by supermutants, crashing next to me. There is always something going on that doesn't necessarily include the player. MEA literally dropped enemies from the sky in front of you to keep you busy. They have no other purpose but to engage the player in mindless combat over and over. It was so dull. So cheap. No animal variety, nothing. Open worlds need critters specific to certain locations, as has been mentioned before. ALL open world games I have played have that, except Bioware games. This is important for immersive hunting for crafting materials. The player learns which critter drops what and where. All of this makes open worlds feel alive and "realistic".
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Rochrok
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Rochrok on Feb 3, 2018 11:12:03 GMT
I agree on the world needs to feel alive. I started playing Inquisition again and was still disappointed with how gamey the world feels. It's like a play everyone is putting on for you. Like during the first part of the game when you're traveling around the Hinterlands during the mage/templar war. I saw multiple mages and templars strolling together then when I got close enough they began to battle. lol!
I think another way to make the world feel alive is through encounters and the handling of quests. For example. I hate that something only exists in the world is when you have a quest for it. Example: I went to the place Blackwall was training his recruits and he wasn't there. He only showed up when I got the quest to get him. It would have been nice to encounter him at that place while exploring which can open up alternate dialogue. Or it would have been nice to be able to grab Vivienne's tomes before getting the quest so when she mentions them, you can say "Oh yeah, I picked those up a while ago, I'll have someone send them to you."
I know the extra dialogue can cost money but I love it when I end up completing quests before I even get them and it helps in making the world dynamic. I hate bringing up W3 again. But I liked that I can encounter the ghost at the well and solve that problem before I get it. After all, the ghost should always be haunting that area. It shouldn't just show up when I get the quest for it.
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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Post by LogicGunn on Feb 3, 2018 13:40:26 GMT
Making an 'Open World' truly compelling is harder than it may appear. BioWare have had 'open zones' before in Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect Andromeda, but not yet a 'contiguous open world'. What do you think it actually takes to make a great one? #1 thing for me is a reason to explore it. Too many open world games only have fetch quests in the vast wilderness off the beaten path.
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I don't stir, I work the material.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 3, 2018 21:06:50 GMT
A big part of it is variety and density of content. This is why Bethesda is among the best at least when it comes to exploration. Their games let the player breathe in between in events, some random, some placed, and there's quite a bit of variety to it all. You don't know what to expect from moment to moment. Unlike Ubisoft, who uses more of a cookie cutter design and things get too predictable. The ideal for me would be to blend what Bethesda and CDPR do so you get variety in exploration but also solid narrative that leads you through the world.
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larsdt
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins
Origin: larsdt
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Post by larsdt on Feb 4, 2018 21:52:12 GMT
I like Open World games like Bethesta's but I have an issue with them when "Open World" is advertised as "freedom to explore"; if the world is perceived as one big sand box where you can do quests whenever you want and at your own pace.
This is an illusion that can't be maintained: Certain NPCs can't be harmed because they are critical to a mission/quest. I can have a weapon that will fire shoulder mounted mini nukes but I still need a key to open an old rusty door.
Evidently, game developers have to make limiting game mechanics to the "Open World" to guide the player through a story line, which in turn can make the game feel more linear.
The more intrusive these game mechanics are, the less I'm able to immerse myself in an "Open World" game.
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OneWomanArmy
N5
Queen of BSN
I’m a brilliant brunette with lots of blonde moments 😜
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Theonewomanarmy
PSN: HypnoticEyes
Prime Posts: A great deal, I'm an old timer
Prime Likes: A LOT....
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I’m a brilliant brunette with lots of blonde moments 😜
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by OneWomanArmy on Feb 5, 2018 8:26:30 GMT
A game like Skyrim but with an outstanding story like DAO or DA2. Skyrim has the freedom to craft almost anything you want within weapons and armors and you can visit beautiful cities and places and have people follow you, combine that with an amazing story and real romance with your companions and I believe you’d get an incredible game! Cause that’s about the only downside to Skyrim to me, it’s story, it’s very lacking and it makes me quit playing halfway through the game due to boredom. Otherwise I love the game.
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OdanUrr
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by OdanUrr on Feb 13, 2018 2:08:27 GMT
What do you think it actually takes to make a great one? The ability for players to construct their own narrative That may not be too far off the mark, actually. Something I noticed when I played both Skyrim and Fallout 4 (more so the former than the latter) was that, by and large, it was more interesting to explore the world around me than to follow the "main" quest. These are games that people remember fondly, not because of their campaign but because how they once discovered a cave that turned out to be the tomb of X, or how they happened to come across an inhabited Vault while doing some errands, or how a chance encounter with a dog led them on a new quest. This journey of exploration, discovery, and adventure is, to my mind, at the heart of open world games like Skyrim and Fallout 4, and it's one that would benefit enormously from co-op. This is what I said in my Andromeda analysis: Of course, I'm making an inherent assumption here that Anthem wants to be an open world game in the vein of Skyrim and Fallout 4 when it could be trying to emulate something like Horizon Zero Dawn. However, considering EA intends to monetize the heck out of this and for a long time at that, I think an exploration-based open world game (as opposed to a campaign-based one) works better at that. After all, you can always release DLC later down the line that adds news campaigns, areas, and quests, further building up your world. Ultimately, it all comes down to the story you want to tell.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 13, 2018 10:09:29 GMT
Open Worlds also are good when they are somewhat sandboxy with its mechanics. Maybe some quirky bugs. That makes things interesting. Thinking about the buckethead stealing in Skyrim. Rgdolling stuff. Making stuff go fly and interact. Physics can lead to amazing results.
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Raga
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Feb 15, 2018 1:21:55 GMT
What do you think it actually takes to make a great one? Wide variety of locations, enemies, quest types, & characters and 1:1:1 distribution on story & narrative, fighting, and exploring and 0 dependence on grinding. In general, anything that's over 60ish gameplay hours severely tests this and devolves into grinding monotony. I in fact cannot think of an exception to that rule, even with the very best open world games like TW3 & Breath of the Wild. I am playing TW3 for the first time right now and it does better than just about any game at not relying on mundane, boring filler. Even so, I am, I dunno, 50 hours in and I already *despise* all those stupid unexplored question marks on my map that *might* be quests so I have to slog over there but 80% of the time end of up being "guarded treasure" with yet more drowners or hags and some crappy loot.
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Raga
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Feb 15, 2018 1:38:31 GMT
mountains, peaks (need to be climbable) Absolutely cannot stress how important this is. Any time ever in any game type ever, open world or not, where I am spending any amount of time running around in frustration because I don't know how to get to point A because of some arbitrary landscape/architectural barrier (and not say a puzzle or a boss or something), the game is failing. Right up there with that is highly avoidable random encounters. If it's obvious I'm trying to disengage from a fight, monsters need to fuck off and leave me alone and not incessantly chase me. TW3 does this really well.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 15, 2018 6:21:51 GMT
mountains, peaks (need to be climbable) Absolutely cannot stress how important this is. Any time ever in any game type ever, open world or not, where I am spending any amount of time running around in frustration because I don't know how to get to point A because of some arbitrary landscape/architectural barrier (and not say a puzzle or a boss or something), the game is failing. Right up there with that is highly avoidable random encounters. If it's obvious I'm trying to disengage from a fight, monsters need to fuck off and leave me alone and not incessantly chase me. TW3 does this really well. Ye, that railroading? See those smooth dunes there? Barely an incline? Can't climb it, because map design. Very prominent in DAI - almost felt like a 3D platformer at times. Reently someone commented about monster, esp. animal, pops in games being hell-bent on attacking the player. Badgers taking six shotgun blasts before they expire. I'm not saying don't put challenges into the world, but getting it right has to do with making it believable.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 15, 2018 12:54:16 GMT
Can't climb it, because map design. Yep, one reason I enjoy Assassin's Creed Origins so much is that you can climb pretty much anything. Far Cry on the other hand would stop you climbing a slight incline. i remember Dragon Age 2 (pre-jumping) would stop you crossing a small pile of rubble...
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 15, 2018 21:03:47 GMT
Making an 'Open World' truly compelling is harder than it may appear. BioWare have had 'open zones' before in Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect Andromeda, but not yet a 'contiguous open world'. What do you think it actually takes to make a great one? For one Bioware needs to stop for once step into the 21st century and include day/night cycles and dynamic weather. Second, they need dynamic and emergent activity going on in the world. In games like GTA5, you see people living their lives and out and about. In Andromeda and Inquisition, NPCs are just stationary "telephone" poles waiting.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 15, 2018 21:39:26 GMT
For one Bioware needs to stop for once step into the 21st century and include day/night cycles and dynamic weather. Second, they need dynamic and emergent activity going on in the world. In games like GTA5, you see people living their lives and out and about. In Andromeda and Inquisition, NPCs are just stationary "telephone" poles waiting. The 2014 Anthem 'preview' did show off a day/night cycle. And you're not wrong about the 'telephone poles'...
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,830 Likes: 5,270
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 16, 2018 11:09:17 GMT
Places to go, people to see. Sights, mysteries. Hey look a cave. I wonder what's inside. Having a lot of people walking around with nothing more interesting to say than "spit, freak, vagrant" doesn't really cut it. I really love all the stories Bioware tells the ambient dialogue out there. How it constantly changes and evolves dependant on you actions, on how you solve war table missions etc.
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tatann
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 765 Likes: 1,038
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Post by tatann on Feb 16, 2018 12:06:37 GMT
Backtracking Fetch quests Quantity over quality Immobilized NPCs
Avoid these and you should get a good open world
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bladefist
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: bladefist1
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Post by bladefist on Feb 16, 2018 22:44:48 GMT
How could I forget the MUSIC!!! I should be able to go to Youtube search for the ingame music (not necessarily the OST) and instantly be transported to the game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 19, 2018 13:31:04 GMT
A good open world Shouldn't pester you with trash fights all the time Should have good lures to explore. Not explicit quests, but things that suggest that an area is interesting and might be worth checking out. Can be visual - as simple as an interesting looking building - dialogue or some sort of event, for example. Should have good, distinctive landmarks that help give you a sense of place. Ideally, the game should be willing to ask the player to use these landmarks for navigation occasionally, rather than relying exclusively on waypoints. Should be willing to have decent amounts of space to give the area some sort of scale. Particularly if you the player's moving at faster than foot speed. Lots of people seem to disagree with me on this one, though. Should have efficient means of fast travel for after the player has discovered a location. A "good lure" can also be a "good spot" for earnings. e.g.: In Kingdom Come, there is Inn in the Glade that has lots of money to buy and extensive forest nearby. You get a room and can set out from there a couple of days earning real coin by hunting. It makes sense and minimises "activity upkeep" like traveling the whole map. Basically, proper "base camps" to set out from to interesting areas.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 19, 2018 17:31:11 GMT
The world has to feel alive. NPCs should have routines (preferably day and night) and interact with each other. In addition to loot, exploration should lead to me uncovering an interesting story with no quest attached to it. This cannot be stressed enough! It's not absolutely mandatory for NPCs to have scripted daily routines but it helps A LOT. It's actually one of the major reasons Bethesda games feel alive. Never mind how buggy the implementation is but NPCs always do their thing. And they can be killed too. There is something deeply satisfying for me somehow to see my FO4 provisioners on the road. Often they are engaged in combat fending off raiders and critters. They thank me if I help them. They actually walk the length if their routes. Caravan traders come to my settlements if I place trading posts. But they don't just magically appear there. I can run into them anywhere. Enemies are always enhanced in combat with each other. I might see a Brotherhood aircraft getting shot down by supermutants, crashing next to me. There is always something going on that doesn't necessarily include the player. MEA literally dropped enemies from the sky in front of you to keep you busy. They have no other purpose but to engage the player in mindless combat over and over. It was so dull. So cheap. No animal variety, nothing. Open worlds need critters specific to certain locations, as has been mentioned before. ALL open world games I have played have that, except Bioware games. This is important for immersive hunting for crafting materials. The player learns which critter drops what and where. All of this makes open worlds feel alive and "realistic". Funny how you say NPC scripted routines is not mandatory yet all of the best open world games such as Red Dead Redemption, GTAV, and Witcher 3 all had NPCs with scripted routines. Bioware has a lot of catching up to do.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 19, 2018 21:47:41 GMT
Off topic, but the difference is that guns are designed specially to kill, cars are not.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Feb 19, 2018 21:53:16 GMT
Apologies, wrong thread. Deleting
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 5, 2018 15:42:37 GMT
I enjoy the world in KCD. It's got no mountains to climb - not really, but the forests are done really well. And so I hunt mostly when milling around without questing. I also like the river, it's got these cataracts I recognize from childhood memories.
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dirtrider00
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Games: Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by dirtrider00 on Mar 19, 2018 16:27:39 GMT
For me its immersion. How long can I play without seeing a noticeable loading screen. So far for me Horizon Zero Dawns open world is the best I've played. Been messing around with mods on pc for skyrim. Forgot just how bad the load times are for that game, specially when in cities. Completely breaks the immersion factor.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 19, 2018 16:37:33 GMT
Having a look at Warframe again - Plains of Eidolon. It's really just an oversized map, but the gameplay elements make it a good example for open world done well. Mountains, secret bases, caves, sea, oceanside. Enough to explore. Day/night with different mechanics taking effect, randomly generated quests, a looley tied in story and character progression tie-in. No question marks. You can spend the whole afternoon doing stuff at your own pace or just do a mission and return - it looks pretty malleable to me. Amazed that DE implemented such a game-changing feature. They say they dedicate it to the Founders. Well, I don't regret one bit spending that money when I was short on earnings that time - the return was a multitude. Excellent game - even when I ranted about grind and RNG drops.
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