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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 6, 2018 19:20:13 GMT
I have what you might call a conspiracy theory here. I don't doubt they always found the 2018 estimate to be a dangling carrot just waiting to pull it further away to 2019, however, I don't think they planned for Destiny to get heckled and I don't think Aaryn Flynn had planned to leave as part of the Anthem dev cycle. I don't think Casey Hudson planned to leave for MS in 2014 and then go back in 2017 to save a sinking ship either, so what gives?
We don't know, of course, but I think the game you saw last E3 is undergoing heavy top-level changes. Of course the mechanics will be reused, of course much art, lore, writing and aesthetics will carry over, but I am starting to doubt they're still attempting to make a Destiny clone now that D2 is kinda starting to fail. I can't prove it, but considering there's been so many high-profile changes, like the lead animator being replaced by the veteran Parish Ley from MET, after that emphasis on first-person face animations last year, knowing Andromeda's turnout and dev history -- c'mon ppl, we know what is happening here. We've seen it before. They're rescoping and/or changing the vision.
I believe Andromeda was a mix of the game being made in 2014 when Chris Schlerf was still there about going to a new galaxy and doing lots of corridor shooting to catch an Archon, but then once many planned details failed to carry into production, they got BW Edmonton aboard the ship to slightly change the focus of the game, and the result was the Dragon Age team coming over to make DA:I 1.5 Andromeda edition, which is what you saw on Elaaden, Voeld, Havarl and whatever the first planet was called, and then stiched together to be cohesive with the linear shooty bang bang levels actually developed by the main bulk of the Montreal staff, as well as the Loyalty Missions which were probably added during this time as well.
I'm just saying, Anthem is changing, I can feel it in my gut. I don't know what exactly it'll be other than a GaaS type of game with lootboxes and stuff and still a focus on playing with friends, I just don't think it'll be that 1:1 Destiny clone but with Iron Man suits, that was presented last year. The iron man suits and the Attack on Titan backdrop is still there, but perhaps it won't be raids we're going to after all.
Do you believe Anthem will look notably different (aside from graphical upgrades or downgrades) next time you see it?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 6, 2018 19:32:06 GMT
I think the next look at Anthem will introduce some changes -- Brenon Holmes has already said as much in reddit. Whether for the conspiracy theories you mentioned, I doubt it. The simpler explanation is iteration on improvements. This isn't saying much, since all games would have changes from their initial preview with that many months between preview and release.
If you really want to get into conspiracy theories, what you should be asking is what they decided not to show in the preview, like lootboxes or MT. Given the current environment, it would be the height of foolishness to emphasize LB or MT in the next look. They'll keep those under covers for as long as they can. The longer the embargo on reviews in the run up to release, the more likely some shady shit is being kept under wraps.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 6, 2018 19:36:55 GMT
The simpler explanation is iteration on improvements. Ah, shit. This is what everyone is gonna say when it turns out the entire game-direction changed, isn't it?
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 6, 2018 19:41:14 GMT
I don't think we've seen enough of the game to really see any changes that may or may not have happened to it. We don't really have much basis for saying Anthem was ever a Destiny "clone".
Anthem when it releases will still be an open world game than you can co-op and get loot out of, and that's all they've shown us.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 6, 2018 19:44:09 GMT
The simpler explanation is iteration on improvements. Ah, shit. This is what everyone is gonna say when it turns out the entire game-direction changed, isn't it? Well, I don't think there are going to be huge direction changes to begin with, but yeah, if there is, that would be the spin. My point is, if they eventually show LB and MT, that may not be a direction change. Those might have been in since before the first preview, we just weren't shown. Does that count as a change of direction?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 6, 2018 20:10:48 GMT
Ah, shit. This is what everyone is gonna say when it turns out the entire game-direction changed, isn't it? Well, I don't think there are going to be huge direction changes to begin with, but yeah, if there is, that would be the spin. My point is, if they eventually show LB and MT, that may not be a direction change. Those might have been in since before the first preview, we just weren't shown. Does that count as a change of direction? Haha, don't count on it. What you saw at E3 was the only piece of fully playable game they had assembled at the time. That's how most E3 demos work. Consider that Andromeda didn't even have any fully produced sequences for E3 ever and that game ended up only feeling barely produced in time with all those broken animations and weirdness. Or, remember that The Last of Us demo that people complained wasn't like the final game? That was also the only thing Naughty Dog had that was playable, and very scripted at that, but they use those "vertical slice" demos to make the rest of the game in the same vein. Of course it's all planned, but when we see gameplay for the first time so does the developer essentially. Reactions weren't over the moon at E3 and then Aaryn left just a month later. In that, I smell fish, and lots of it. Anthem is going to change because the excitement wasn't there for it, and with D2 being as it is at the moment, I just expect them to have shifted gears for Anthem internally.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 6, 2018 20:15:50 GMT
Umm.. Of course it will look different than what we've seen. This happens on basically every game and there are good reasons for it, though they may differ case by case.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 6, 2018 20:18:02 GMT
Considering we pretty much know dick about the game, apart from what we've seen in a 7 minute video form last year, hard to say what exactly is shifting gears or not. Was it supposed to be a looty/shooty Destiny-killer attempt like every thinks but never confirmed by either BioWare/EA? Was it going to be third person or 1st person perspective? Was a small or large Single player campaign? Was it multiplayer or CO-OP heavy a la Battlefront II?
Who knows? As to the reason why it got delayed, I think its more than likely that it's a mix of a lot of things - 1) the reception of ME:A, Battlefront II and Destiny 2, 2) the fact that they didn't want to compete with the new Battlefield and, possibly, Red Dead Revolver 2, 3) the fact EA had nothing significant to release in Q4 (Jan - Mar 2019)
Seems to me they delayed it because they could and there was no disadvantage not to
As for ME:A, it seems the big handup on that was the time spent trying make reportedly thousands of procedural generated worlds work and keep them interesting. By the time they abandoned the concept and decided to have Mac come on board, they had about 18 to 24 months to release a finished product.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 6, 2018 20:18:27 GMT
Well, I don't think there are going to be huge direction changes to begin with, but yeah, if there is, that would be the spin. My point is, if they eventually show LB and MT, that may not be a direction change. Those might have been in since before the first preview, we just weren't shown. Does that count as a change of direction? Haha, don't count on it. What you saw at E3 was the only piece of fully playable game they had assembled at the time. That's how most E3 demos work. Consider that Andromeda didn't even have any fully produced sequences for E3 ever and that game ended up only feeling barely produced in time with all those broken animations and weirdness. Or, remember that The Last of Us demo that people complained wasn't like the final game? That was also the only thing Naughty Dog had that was playable, and very scripted at that, but they use those "vertical slice" demos to make the rest of the game in the same vein. Of course it's all planned, but when we see gameplay for the first time so does the developer essentially. Reactions weren't over the moon at E3 and then Aaryn left just a month later. In that, I smell fish, and lots of it. Anthem is going to change because the excitement wasn't there for it, and with D2 being as it is at the moment, I just expect them to have shifted gears for Anthem internally. Excitement wasn't there at E3? In the core BioWare community of Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans, it was a bit luke warm, yeah. In all the other gaming places? There was a hella lot of excitement.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 6, 2018 20:21:56 GMT
Haha, don't count on it. What you saw at E3 was the only piece of fully playable game they had assembled at the time. That's how most E3 demos work. Consider that Andromeda didn't even have any fully produced sequences for E3 ever and that game ended up only feeling barely produced in time with all those broken animations and weirdness. Or, remember that The Last of Us demo that people complained wasn't like the final game? That was also the only thing Naughty Dog had that was playable, and very scripted at that, but they use those "vertical slice" demos to make the rest of the game in the same vein. Of course it's all planned, but when we see gameplay for the first time so does the developer essentially. Reactions weren't over the moon at E3 and then Aaryn left just a month later. In that, I smell fish, and lots of it. Anthem is going to change because the excitement wasn't there for it, and with D2 being as it is at the moment, I just expect them to have shifted gears for Anthem internally. Excitement wasn't there at E3? In the core BioWare community of Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans, it was a bit luke warm, yeah. In all the other gaming places? There was a hella lot of excitement. Yeah, in the BioWare fandom it was either "ME:A was screwed over for this?!" or "DA4 was screwed over for this?!"...others were more intrigued apart from the usual YouTube hate-vid circle-jerk
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 6, 2018 20:26:04 GMT
Excitement wasn't there at E3? In the core BioWare community of Mass Effect and Dragon Age fans, it was a bit luke warm, yeah. In all the other gaming places? There was a hella lot of excitement. Yeah, in the BioWare fandom it was either "ME:A was screwed over for this?!" or "DA4 was screwed over for this?!"...others were more intrigued apart from the usual YouTube hate-vid circle-jerk Heck, I love lore and detailed story and characters as much as the next BioWare fan, but even I was like " You can fly???? You can dive in water????? ". Basically there's a little kid inside me, wanting to go WHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
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Post by ShadowAngel on Feb 6, 2018 20:39:44 GMT
Were they ever making a destiny clone? Bioware never said such a thing, only the fandom and their assumptions. Is a walled city being shown in a demo all it takes to come to the destiny clone conclusion? There's no real gameplay to go off of, no mission structure, no progression, the list goes on.
Regardless we know so little on what Anthem is to even be that it's hard to just say they're changing things based off various games and how they were received. I wasn't aware they're even changing things, the launch date simply got moved back and it wasn't a concrete date to begin with. Heck, one could argue they did it to not be competing vs other big title release dates which just tells me they don't have 100% confidence in their "bob Dylan".
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Post by warden on Feb 6, 2018 20:57:25 GMT
as far as graphics goes yeah, expect a huge downgrade, not that i care, but most people will mostly do.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 6, 2018 21:02:20 GMT
Were they ever making a destiny clone? Bioware never said such a thing You wouldn't actually expect them to, right? The evidence is entirely circumstantial, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid, at least to some degree. When the weight of evidence gets to a certain point, the comparison becomes hard to deny. Destiny | Anthem | Scifi setting | Scifi setting | You play one of three classes | You wear one of three types of suit (that acts as a character class) | Loot-and-shoot gameplay | Loot-and-shoot gameplay
| RNG loot | RNG loot | Jump flight mechanics | Full flight mechanics | Invite friend co-op | Invite friend co-op | Hub | Hub | Quest givers | Quest givers |
Is that enough to call it a clone? That's up to you to decide. In truth, I can pick at any one of the lines items and find reasons for why they aren't really the same, like in Destiny you are stuck with your character class for the career of that character, but in Anthem, it's reasonable to assume you can change suits. Even if it is not a clone, it's in the same ballpark in terms of game category or genre.
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simit
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Chris2k30
PSN: Simit2k30
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Post by simit on Feb 6, 2018 21:28:59 GMT
Changing?? no idea, since i know not much about it to begin with but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there changing the progression system to not tie in with lootboxes, i honestly think the progression system was prob same as BF2's an going by how that was received an then all the crap with D2 an there xp throttling to steer ppl to the cash shop, yeah i wouldn't be surprised tbh since end of day they woulda seen no one who played me3 or mea mp had a problem an lapped it up.
End of day we could all sit make negative theories about a game that tbh none of us know anything about but i'd rather just wait an see an buy the game make my own mind up, one thing i do believe will happen is that it will look as you seen it graphically if you own a xBx or pro maybe better on good pc on less so on normal xbox an p4, all you need to do is look at recent battlefield an battlefront games to know it an they was released for the older console versions, so yeah i have zero worries about gfx
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 6, 2018 21:49:54 GMT
Umm.. Of course it will look different than what we've seen. This happens on basically every game and there are good reasons for it, though they may differ case by case. Duh! I don't mean to say all games are the same from start to finish. I mean, change beyond just the iterative process, where plans have changed drastically. Structual, major changes where whatever video they show next you can tell the game isn't shaping up to be the same sort of experience it was shown to be at E3. Gunplay is the same, flying is the same, but the focus might be less on going to a raid or less about picking up missions at one hub and then teaming up with 4 friends seamlessly etc.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 6, 2018 23:00:53 GMT
Duh! I don't mean to say all games are the same from start to finish. I mean, change beyond just the iterative process, where plans have changed drastically. We've only had one 7-minute trailer, so it's all rather vague. At Pax East or E3 this year we should see something more illustrative.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 7, 2018 5:26:43 GMT
I hope the first person view in hubs changes. I hate that shit.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 7, 2018 7:37:48 GMT
Umm.. Of course it will look different than what we've seen. This happens on basically every game and there are good reasons for it, though they may differ case by case. Duh! I don't mean to say all games are the same from start to finish. I mean, change beyond just the iterative process, where plans have changed drastically. Structual, major changes where whatever video they show next you can tell the game isn't shaping up to be the same sort of experience it was shown to be at E3. Gunplay is the same, flying is the same, but the focus might be less on going to a raid or less about picking up missions at one hub and then teaming up with 4 friends seamlessly etc. I dont think you can. Changes graphically happen, also usually what is shown originally is some early stuff that WILL change to something else, and the videos shown early are put together in a hurry as usual.. I would not take early videos or explanations set in stone ever, that'll lead to the dark side if one believes those 100%
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 7, 2018 13:45:21 GMT
You can tell when the focus or direction of a game changes. You can tell when core design has shifted.
What i am talking about is akin to DA3 vs DAI where the former looked like a much more reactive, choice-driven RPG and I looked like a grindathon Skyrim-alike.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 7, 2018 14:01:22 GMT
It will look exactly the same as adverttised. A silly question, really.
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Post by goishen on Feb 8, 2018 22:17:47 GMT
Yeh, I can almost certainly guarantee that you will see a change with Casey Hudson in charge. Like him or hate him, the man knows video games. That doesn't mean I'll buy it.
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 10, 2018 13:17:55 GMT
You can tell when the focus or direction of a game changes. You can tell when core design has shifted. What i am talking about is akin to DA3 vs DAI where the former looked like a much more reactive, choice-driven RPG and I looked like a grindathon Skyrim-alike. Are you just making stuff up? Because this imaginary DA3 you’re thinking of never existed. If you’re thinking of the Crestwood demo: features were cut, that’s not indicative of a total change in direction.
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Post by Warrick on Feb 10, 2018 17:34:15 GMT
Of course. I'm convinced the demo video we've seen was a separate, finished product made exclusively to be shown rather than a part of an actual project in development.
I don't think any of the systems from that video will be present. From the facial animations to the animals interacting with each other in an unscripted way. The only part of Anthem we can be confident will be there if the game ever ships is the quarian legs. Because that's the only type of legs Bioware knows how to make.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 23, 2018 0:02:49 GMT
Of course. I'm convinced the demo video we've seen was a separate, finished product made exclusively to be shown rather than a part of an actual project in development. I don't think any of the systems from that video will be present. From the facial animations to the animals interacting with each other in an unscripted way. The only part of Anthem we can be confident will be there if the game ever ships is the quarian legs. Because that's the only type of legs Bioware knows how to make. Smart developers like BioWare implement this demo into the final product but you are right, it's a vertical "target gameplay" demo which was constructed specifically for the showfloor. For ME3 this was the Rannoch "Reaper Base" mission, so apparently that was one of the first fully developed sections of the game they produced. For DAI it was the In Hushed Whispers quest where you meet Dorian.
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