Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 7, 2018 14:43:40 GMT
I'm sure they adapted as they saw the things Destiny did right, and that was undoubtedly the raids and the loot. Have you played Destiny and did you see its E3 demos? I did both and when I saw Anthem all I could think of "wow, they're really treading in footsteps here" from the scripted voice actors acting like gamers that discuss loot over "voice chat" to them assembling before the raid instance "storm" thing at the end of the demo. This is Destiny alright. The only thing that remains to be seen is how the narrative approach they take to it differs whereas Destiny only provided RPG as far as "custom character creation" went. It had a completely linear story like in a Halo game (nevermind it was horrendeously written) but there was a little satisfaction in seeing your male or female character with whatever skin-color or hair or species you chose act out the 3 or 4 lines they got in cinematics. In fact, there was just enough that, since there's not been any actual indication of branching narrative or dialogue wheels for Anthem yet, I really worry it's going to be inferior to Destiny as far as game-design goes, but somehow I'm sure it'll feel richer in scope, simply because it's been in development for this long now and I think the 3 teams at BioWare easily outdoes the size of Bungie. How big would you assume the 3 teams of Bioware to be? I can for sure tell you Bungie has 800+ employees at the least (Bungie's wiki will show 750 as of 2016, but they stated around 800 partook in D2s development). I can't find anything on biowares #s, but I'd guesstimate around 100ish for each studio based off their pictures they take of their teams. I am not even sure if BioWare really has three teams, the games they are working on always seem to be in a different stage of development so they can easily move people around to work on the game that they are needed on. I know there is a lot of news with Andromeda and Anthem where EA and BioWare were and are moving people around during crunch, but I wonder if that is how it was always done just never noticed before.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2018 15:32:03 GMT
I'm sure they adapted as they saw the things Destiny did right, and that was undoubtedly the raids and the loot. Have you played Destiny and did you see its E3 demos? I did both and when I saw Anthem all I could think of "wow, they're really treading in footsteps here" from the scripted voice actors acting like gamers that discuss loot over "voice chat" to them assembling before the raid instance "storm" thing at the end of the demo. This is Destiny alright. The only thing that remains to be seen is how the narrative approach they take to it differs whereas Destiny only provided RPG as far as "custom character creation" went. It had a completely linear story like in a Halo game (nevermind it was horrendeously written) but there was a little satisfaction in seeing your male or female character with whatever skin-color or hair or species you chose act out the 3 or 4 lines they got in cinematics. In fact, there was just enough that, since there's not been any actual indication of branching narrative or dialogue wheels for Anthem yet, I really worry it's going to be inferior to Destiny as far as game-design goes, but somehow I'm sure it'll feel richer in scope, simply because it's been in development for this long now and I think the 3 teams at BioWare easily outdoes the size of Bungie. Yes, the E3 2017 demo seemed to be aimed more at that Destiny audience. It is something when a Bioware E3 demo has no focus on characters, choices, and story and is replaced with coop scripted gameplay, loot references, and Raid hints. How much different is the Anthem E3 reveal different from the Destiny E3 reveal?
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N7
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Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2018 15:35:51 GMT
Both open world games. Open world RPGs can obviously sell lots, hence DAI going that way. Anthem represents another overcorrection. If Anthem flops, what is Bioware going to do next? Minecraft clone?
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 7, 2018 16:04:34 GMT
Both open world games. Open world RPGs can obviously sell lots, hence DAI going that way. Anthem represents another overcorrection. If Anthem flops, what is Bioware going to do next? OMG, you've played it?! Where can I get a copy?
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 7, 2018 16:06:06 GMT
Bioware has a proven track record of making expectations. Wasnt DAI the fastest selling Bioware game and did a lot to help EA's FY2015 Q1 earnings? Are you implying that Bioware cannot compete with the likes of CDPR and Guerrilla Games? Yes, since I think both of those games sold better then Mass Effect 3 which is reported to be BioWare's best selling game at 3.3 million copies total sold. Actually, reportedly Mass Effect 3 sold 3.5 million copies it's month of release in March 2012. www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/03/09/mass-effect-3-ships-3-5-million-units/#4056d84758fd
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 7, 2018 16:10:25 GMT
Yes, the E3 2017 demo seemed to be aimed more at that Destiny audience. It is something when a Bioware E3 demo has no focus on characters, choices, and story and is replaced with coop scripted gameplay, loot references, and Raid hints. How much different is the Anthem E3 reveal different from the Destiny E3 reveal? I recall Andromeda was criticised for not showing much gameplay so I expect the Anthem reveal played to that. But in fairness, yes, the first Destiny trailer does actually remind me of the Anthem trailer. Also, for comparison, here are other BioWare game reveal trailers, we can discuss how much 'characters, choices, and story' are outlined in those tasters. It is a mixed bag, but I'd say most shy away from detail.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 7, 2018 16:19:55 GMT
Yes, the E3 2017 demo seemed to be aimed more at that Destiny audience. It is something when a Bioware E3 demo has no focus on characters, choices, and story and is replaced with coop scripted gameplay, loot references, and Raid hints. How much different is the Anthem E3 reveal different from the Destiny E3 reveal? I recall Andromeda was criticised for not showing much gameplay so I expect the Anthem reveal played to that. But in fairness, yes, the first Destiny trailer does actually remind me of the Anthem trailer. Also, for comparison, here are other BioWare game reveal trailers, we can discuss how much 'characters, choices, and story' are outlined in those tasters. It is a mixed bag, but I'd say most shy away from detail. Yeah, reveal trailers are not meant to be definitive...just give a taste of visuals and "wow".
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Post by goishen on Mar 7, 2018 16:51:59 GMT
The MMO-ness that you're seeing right now being displayed in games like Destiny and The Division can be attributed directly back to WoW.
With over, what? Thirteen million accounts at one time, who cares what the player wants? So we make thirteen million players happy to spite two or three million. That's a trade off I would take in any day of the week and twice on a Sunday. Specifically if I was getting paid for all of those accounts.
Now agreed, you might say that Destiny and The Division had no where near those account numbers. And you're right. But still, their account numbers are nothing to sneeze at, and they're still making phat cash. They're laughing all the way to the bank. Even if they are making bank off'a those whales who are stupid enough to spend $15,000 in one sitting to get some cosmetic shit. Great plan, you've just ruined some kid's future, because daddy just spent their college money just to get the cloak of uberness.
But then again, I would take this model over all others any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
This is why I've said that it's time to come up with a new definition of geek, nerd, etc. 'Cause I don't really play those games, and everyone else seems to. From the jock (*cough*tyler1*cough*) on down. If that's the definition of a geek, I definitely don't want to be part of that crowd.
So, all in all, fuck WoW for fucking up gaming. First, it fucked itself. Then like all other viruses, it spread.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 7, 2018 16:58:16 GMT
Yes, the E3 2017 demo seemed to be aimed more at that Destiny audience. It is something when a Bioware E3 demo has no focus on characters, choices, and story and is replaced with coop scripted gameplay, loot references, and Raid hints. How much different is the Anthem E3 reveal different from the Destiny E3 reveal? I recall Andromeda was criticised for not showing much gameplay so I expect the Anthem reveal played to that. But in fairness, yes, the first Destiny trailer does actually remind me of the Anthem trailer. Also, for comparison, here are other BioWare game reveal trailers, we can discuss how much 'characters, choices, and story' are outlined in those tasters. It is a mixed bag, but I'd say most shy away from detail. <videos removed> I think that its also the climate of YouTube in general as well, I know I go back to it a lot but the Choices Trailer for Mass Effect 1 would be ripped apart now one for not fully representing the game, but at the same time showing too much detail. It just seems there is a gulf where its "show me what I want and the others are wrong" approach to things so not just the game industry, but its most companies are taking a bland approach and showing the least offensive thing to avoid controversy.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 7, 2018 17:12:48 GMT
I recall Andromeda was criticised for not showing much gameplay so I expect the Anthem reveal played to that. But in fairness, yes, the first Destiny trailer does actually remind me of the Anthem trailer. Also, for comparison, here are other BioWare game reveal trailers, we can discuss how much 'characters, choices, and story' are outlined in those tasters. It is a mixed bag, but I'd say most shy away from detail. <videos removed> I think that its also the climate of YouTube in general as well, I know I go back to it a lot but the Choices Trailer for Mass Effect 1 would be ripped apart now one for not fully representing the game, but at the same time showing too much detail. It just seems there is a gulf where its "show me what I want and the others are wrong" approach to things so not just the game industry, but its most companies are taking a bland approach and showing the least offensive thing to avoid controversy. Pretty much. At the time of the "Anthem" reveal trailer, it was 17-18 months away from the now Jan-Mar 2019 release window so I'm sure the goal was to provide a piece of what they knew would be in the game versus putting in more revealing features that may or may not be cut and getting criticized for it by the fanbase later (like Dragon Age Inquisition and the features that had to be abandoned due to releasing on current and past-gen hardware).
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 7, 2018 23:05:07 GMT
I'm sure they adapted as they saw the things Destiny did right, and that was undoubtedly the raids and the loot. Have you played Destiny and did you see its E3 demos? I did both and when I saw Anthem all I could think of "wow, they're really treading in footsteps here" from the scripted voice actors acting like gamers that discuss loot over "voice chat" to them assembling before the raid instance "storm" thing at the end of the demo. This is Destiny alright. The only thing that remains to be seen is how the narrative approach they take to it differs whereas Destiny only provided RPG as far as "custom character creation" went. It had a completely linear story like in a Halo game (nevermind it was horrendeously written) but there was a little satisfaction in seeing your male or female character with whatever skin-color or hair or species you chose act out the 3 or 4 lines they got in cinematics. In fact, there was just enough that, since there's not been any actual indication of branching narrative or dialogue wheels for Anthem yet, I really worry it's going to be inferior to Destiny as far as game-design goes, but somehow I'm sure it'll feel richer in scope, simply because it's been in development for this long now and I think the 3 teams at BioWare easily outdoes the size of Bungie. How big would you assume the 3 teams of Bioware to be? I can for sure tell you Bungie has 800+ employees at the least (Bungie's wiki will show 750 as of 2016, but they stated around 800 partook in D2s development). I can't find anything on biowares #s, but I'd guesstimate around 100ish for each studio based off their pictures they take of their teams. Look, people can be wrong -- I was wrong. First time it happened. It happens!
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 7, 2018 23:23:29 GMT
I'm sure they adapted as they saw the things Destiny did right, and that was undoubtedly the raids and the loot. Have you played Destiny and did you see its E3 demos? I did both and when I saw Anthem all I could think of "wow, they're really treading in footsteps here" from the scripted voice actors acting like gamers that discuss loot over "voice chat" to them assembling before the raid instance "storm" thing at the end of the demo. This is Destiny alright. The only thing that remains to be seen is how the narrative approach they take to it differs whereas Destiny only provided RPG as far as "custom character creation" went. It had a completely linear story like in a Halo game (nevermind it was horrendeously written) but there was a little satisfaction in seeing your male or female character with whatever skin-color or hair or species you chose act out the 3 or 4 lines they got in cinematics. In fact, there was just enough that, since there's not been any actual indication of branching narrative or dialogue wheels for Anthem yet, I really worry it's going to be inferior to Destiny as far as game-design goes, but somehow I'm sure it'll feel richer in scope, simply because it's been in development for this long now and I think the 3 teams at BioWare easily outdoes the size of Bungie. One thing I will give them a break on is the scripted voice conversation, not saying it was good or a good idea just that I think I understand why they did that. That video was probably done during the Voice Actors Strike so I am not sure if they could have had any other type of dialogue and figured the people they could use would work better as VoIP chat instead of trying to voice characters themselves which might not even sound the same in the final product because at that point they would have cast voice actors for those roles.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 8, 2018 0:02:53 GMT
I'm sure they adapted as they saw the things Destiny did right, and that was undoubtedly the raids and the loot. Have you played Destiny and did you see its E3 demos? I did both and when I saw Anthem all I could think of "wow, they're really treading in footsteps here" from the scripted voice actors acting like gamers that discuss loot over "voice chat" to them assembling before the raid instance "storm" thing at the end of the demo. This is Destiny alright. The only thing that remains to be seen is how the narrative approach they take to it differs whereas Destiny only provided RPG as far as "custom character creation" went. It had a completely linear story like in a Halo game (nevermind it was horrendeously written) but there was a little satisfaction in seeing your male or female character with whatever skin-color or hair or species you chose act out the 3 or 4 lines they got in cinematics. In fact, there was just enough that, since there's not been any actual indication of branching narrative or dialogue wheels for Anthem yet, I really worry it's going to be inferior to Destiny as far as game-design goes, but somehow I'm sure it'll feel richer in scope, simply because it's been in development for this long now and I think the 3 teams at BioWare easily outdoes the size of Bungie. One thing I will give them a break on is the scripted voice conversation, not saying it was good or a good idea just that I think I understand why they did that. That video was probably done during the Voice Actors Strike so I am not sure if they could have had any other type of dialogue and figured the people they could use would work better as VoIP chat instead of trying to voice characters themselves which might not even sound the same in the final product because at that point they would have cast voice actors for those roles. Wow, you really believe this don't you?
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 8, 2018 0:18:44 GMT
I can't find anything on biowares #s, but I'd guesstimate around 100ish for each studio based off their pictures they take of their teams. I recall a dev conversation suggesting that around 300 people were working on Anthem. I don't know if that includes or excludes folk borrowed from other things, but I'd guess includes as there are two other active IP's and some infrastructure employees.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 8, 2018 0:27:11 GMT
One thing I will give them a break on is the scripted voice conversation, not saying it was good or a good idea just that I think I understand why they did that. That video was probably done during the Voice Actors Strike so I am not sure if they could have had any other type of dialogue and figured the people they could use would work better as VoIP chat instead of trying to voice characters themselves which might not even sound the same in the final product because at that point they would have cast voice actors for those roles. Wow, you really believe this don't you? Sure why not? Anything is a possibility unless proven untrue.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 8, 2018 0:51:23 GMT
Sure why not? Anything is a possibility unless proven untrue. This forum thrives on this sentiment...
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 8, 2018 1:06:52 GMT
Sure why not? Anything is a possibility unless proven untrue. This forum thrives on this sentiment... I know, I figured I would use it in my favor this time.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 8, 2018 1:51:54 GMT
While to me it screams destiny clone and I hate Destiny, I'll point out that borderlands is the same style of game. And I love the borderlands games. Writing does make a difference, also I think borderlands did shooter game play better. So even if the game play is destiny like, it still can be a fun game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 8, 2018 10:37:52 GMT
While to me it screams destiny clone and I hate Destiny, I'll point out that borderlands is the same style of game. And I love the borderlands games. Writing does make a difference, also I think borderlands did shooter game play better. So even if the game play is destiny like, it still can be a fun game. Ha, in all the time - I pretty much don't remember many - if any - referring to Borderlands. And that came before Destiny, no?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 8, 2018 11:21:50 GMT
While to me it screams destiny clone and I hate Destiny, I'll point out that borderlands is the same style of game. And I love the borderlands games. Writing does make a difference, also I think borderlands did shooter game play better. So even if the game play is destiny like, it still can be a fun game. True truth true. Also, I'll add, personally I dug Destiny despite it not living up to its potential exactly because the lore and aesthetics of it felt pretty inspiring, and just presentation in general. It had some awe-inspiring sights to behold like going to the moon and looking at how Earth had been rendered in the horizon. It was some straight-up Mass Effect UNC or ME3 skybox stuff and in fact I liked the whole aesthetic dimension of the game enough to waste like 10 or 20 hours basically doing meandering stuff in the open zones just because it had that sense of mystery. Even WoW had some of that for me in its fantasy-setting, so I think even if it's totally MP oriented and story compromises with that there's probably plenty of what a BioWare fan would love just within how lore is distributed or the various mysteries within the landscapes. At its best, I really do hope this game is all about co-op adventuring though. Raids and PvP is fine, I just hope there's a certain portion of the game where I feel like I'm going through a little journey alongside friends or strangers doing the same thing, because that was Destiny if it had good writing. And also, seriously, it probably won't be this game, but BioWare or SOMEBODY, gimme an action RPG with inter-player interactive dialogue, like in Divinity Original Sin but where it's voiced. Closest I got was SWTOR but that game was so dull. Otherwise as far as "storydriven adventure" goes Resident Evil 5 and 6 remains top tier for co-op to me because they let Player 1 and Player 2 have their moments to shine and occasionally included a 3rd player wtihin the scenario of the level who was going through a seperate campaign that intersected with ours. Couple that with scripted set-pieces and stuff and you had a really unique co-op experience.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 8, 2018 15:35:10 GMT
Sure why not? Anything is a possibility unless proven untrue. This forum thrives on this sentiment... Hope > Logic
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 8, 2018 16:53:01 GMT
And the absence of verifiable facts means that people will provide their own to support their narrative
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 8, 2018 17:04:56 GMT
And the absence of verifiable facts means that people will provide their own to support their narrative Hm, but there'll be a winner one day: "I called it! I knew it! I told you so! <insert victory dance vid>" It's be a bit funny that day, I guess.
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January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 8, 2018 17:19:07 GMT
And the absence of verifiable facts means that people will provide their own to support their narrative Kind of like how people claimed that in no way would EA not produce DLC for MEA because apparently EA "was pleased" with the success of MEA and will not miss out on extra money..... ....then when it was confirmed that no DLC was coming, those same people then shifted their stance and claimed that EA never planned on doing DLC as they wanted all resources focused on Anthem. Yup
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samhain444
1,669
April 2017
samhain444
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 8, 2018 17:32:33 GMT
And the absence of verifiable facts means that people will provide their own to support their narrative Hm, but there'll be a winner one day: "I called it! I knew it! I told you so! <insert victory dance vid>" It's be a bit funny that day, I guess. Yeah, and if there's a "winner", what do you win? Let's say it is what some people are saying - a "Destiny" clone" - they weren't going to play it anyways but they get to fap at the thought of BioWare's impending doom, I guess. The only thing we know about the game so far is what we've seen in the trailer...that's it...the rest is unknown. If it is like "Destiny" or "Division, so be it, it may not be for me as they felt like relatively empty experiences, but I don't begrudge BioWare's desire to create different games outside their SP RPG wheelhouse as it was with "The Old Republic". However, with the writer's involved (Drew Karpyshyn, Mac Walters, Jay Watamaniuk) it looks like a pretty good bet for some deep lore and narrative elements, which is largely missing from "looter-shooter"genre. It could also have both a "Destiny/Division" experience mixed with a deep, immersive SP campaign...as it's implied that it's a hybrid of genre based on the "Dylan"-esque moniker. "Anthem" is a bit of a Rorschach test - those that are positive about the company and their games are tentatively excited about the game and those that disgruntled about ME3/DAI/MEA are already viewing at as a failure.
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