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Post by Catilina on May 2, 2018 21:46:57 GMT
Didn't you just say a few pages back that you think annulling the Circle can be justified as a "lawful good" choice? So blowing up innocent people can never be justified, but killing innocent people in a more mundane way (i.e. with your sword or bow or daggers or whatever) can be justified? Sort of have to pick between having your cake and eating it here- if Anders actions are unjustifiably wrong because they involved the killing of innocents, then by the same token Merideth's (and any Hawke that assists her) actions are unjustifiably wrong because they involved the killing of innocents. Can't really have it both ways. Personally, I think its pretty clear that both of their actions were evil/immoral. Oh come on they're hardly the same thing. Meredith is trying to restore order after a terrorist attack. Now if Anders had blown up Meredith that would be different, and many would say it was justified. However he went for a bunch of clergy men and women, many of whom had nothing whatsoever to do with the mages. Plus the mages in the Circle had been turning to blood magic for years, literally years, before any action was taken. Meredith was wrong, I don't support her actions, however I do see a valid, lawful reason to support the Templars in their effort to bring order to Kirkwall. I don't see a valid, lawful reason to blow up a fucking church. Yes, these aren't same. But while Anders act justified by the system, Meredith's act never can be justified. She's not wanted to restore the order. She wanted to kill the mages. So: do you think, if Anders would blow up the Gallows would be justified, because there would die Templars and Mages? Are they not people? Their life no matter? Aren't the mages innocents civilian who not even can escape...? And don't forget: what happened when Decimus ignited the Starkhaven Circle? They're escaped, but nothing more. Nobody cares about a Circle. No: the Chantry was the right target. Elthina was the right target. Anders target was the Kirkwall's headquarter of the institution, what responsible for the system, for every abuse what the system allows and supports. To kill Meredith also would not cause a rebellion, and would make the situation even worse. Cullen would become mad and would continue Meredith's method. Because Cullen needed to see his idol's fall to be sober. If he would just kill Meredith, the Chantry would annul the Circle – and nobody would care about them anymore.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 2, 2018 21:47:48 GMT
Oh come on they're hardly the same thing. Meredith is trying to restore order after a terrorist attack. Now if Anders had blown up Meredith that would be different, and many would say it was justified. However he went for a bunch of clergy men and women, many of whom had nothing whatsoever to do with the mages. Plus the mages in the Circle had been turning to blood magic for years, literally years, before any action was taken. Meredith was wrong, I don't support her actions, however I do see a valid, lawful reason to support the Templars in their effort to bring order to Kirkwall. I don't see a valid, lawful reason to blow up a fucking church. Not to mention the civilians caught up in the blast, either being in the church or hit by the debris. His actions are confirmed to have killed hundreds of people. So is it a matter of numbers? Anders' killing of innocents was unjustifiable because there were hundreds of people, whereas Merideth's killing of innocents is justifiable because the number of innocent Circle mages is less than that?
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Post by q5tyhj on May 2, 2018 22:00:34 GMT
Oh come on they're hardly the same thing. Meredith is trying to restore order after a terrorist attack. Now if Anders had blown up Meredith that would be different, and many would say it was justified. However he went for a bunch of clergy men and women, many of whom had nothing whatsoever to do with the mages. Plus the mages in the Circle had been turning to blood magic for years, literally years, before any action was taken. Meredith was wrong, I don't support her actions, however I do see a valid, lawful reason to support the Templars in their effort to bring order to Kirkwall. I don't see a valid, lawful reason to blow up a fucking church. Yes, these aren't same. But while Anders act justified by the system, Meredith's act never can be justified. She's not wanted to restore the order. She wanted to kill the mages. So: do you think, if Anders would blow up the Gallows would be justified, because there would die Templars and Mages? Are they not people? Their life no matter? Aren't the mages innocents civilian who not even can escape...? And don't forget: what happened when Decimus ignited the Starkhaven Circle? They're escaped, but nothing more. Nobody cares about a Circle. No: the Chantry was the right target. Elthina was the right target. Anders target was the Kirkwall's headquarter of the institution, what responsible for the system, for every abuse what the system allows and supports. To kill Meredith also would not cause a rebellion, and would make the situation even worse. Cullen would become mad and would continue Meredith's method. Because Cullen needed to see his idol's fall to be sober. If he would just kill Meredith, the Chantry would annul the Circle – and nobody would care about them anymore. Disagree, I don't think Anders' actions were any more morally justifiable than Merideth's, and I think the two cases are more or less identical from a moral point of view: both of them have a good/valuable goal, which they seek to achieve through grossly unjust/immoral means- the killing of innocent people. I don't see how one can condemn the one but not the other, without inconsistency/double standard.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 2, 2018 22:10:08 GMT
Not to mention the civilians caught up in the blast, either being in the church or hit by the debris. His actions are confirmed to have killed hundreds of people. So is it a matter of numbers? Anders' killing of innocents was unjustifiable because there were hundreds of people, whereas Merideth's killing of innocents is justifiable because the number of innocent Circle mages is less than that? I was simply pointing out that Anders’ actions harmed more than just the people inside the building.
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Post by Catilina on May 2, 2018 22:13:49 GMT
Yes, these aren't same. But while Anders act justified by the system, Meredith's act never can be justified. She's not wanted to restore the order. She wanted to kill the mages.
So: do you think, if Anders would blow up the Gallows would be justified, because there would die Templars and Mages? Are they not people? Their life no matter? Aren't the mages innocents civilian who not even can escape...? And don't forget: what happened when Decimus ignited the Starkhaven Circle? They're escaped, but nothing more. Nobody cares about a Circle. No: the Chantry was the right target. Elthina was the right target. Anders target was the Kirkwall's headquarter of the institution, what responsible for the system, for every abuse what the system allows and supports.
To kill Meredith also would not cause a rebellion, and would make the situation even worse. Cullen would become mad and would continue Meredith's method. Because Cullen needed to see his idol's fall to be sober. If he would just kill Meredith, the Chantry would annul the Circle – and nobody would care about them anymore. Disagree, I don't think Anders' actions were any more morally justifiable than Merideth's, and I think the two cases are more or less identical: both of them have a good/valuable goal, which they seek to achieve through grossly unjust/immoral means- the killing of innocent people. I don't see how one can condemn the one but not the other, without inconsistency/double standard. I never denied my opinion based on a double standard. Because Meredith's and Anders' position's not same, not even their goal. Meredith has an army, and power over the city, and serves a clearly evil system. Meredith broke her own law, what for she swore, AND broke every moral law for years. This can't be justified even if we consider the system as "necessary evil". Anders doesn't have any power and wants to fight against the system for the freedom. Anders broke the moral law, yes, he caused much death and a big collateral damage. He's guilty, but his decision was justified by the situation and the system. This isn't same, and never will be same.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 2, 2018 22:21:44 GMT
Disagree, I don't think Anders' actions were any more morally justifiable than Merideth's, and I think the two cases are more or less identical: both of them have a good/valuable goal, which they seek to achieve through grossly unjust/immoral means- the killing of innocent people. I don't see how one can condemn the one but not the other, without inconsistency/double standard. I never denied my opinion based on a double standard. Because Meredith's and Anders' position's not same, not even their goal. Meredith has an army, and power over the city, and serves a clearly evil system. Meredith broke her own law, what for she swore, AND broke every moral law for years. This can't be justified even if we consider the system as "necessary evil". Anders doesn't have any power and wants to fight against the system for the freedom. Anders broke the moral law, yes, he caused much death and a big collateral damage. He's guilty, but his decision was justified by the situation and the system. This isn't same, and never will be same. Neither their goals nor their actions were the same, but they were comparable: both of them had goals that were worthy or valuable. Merideth wanted to restore order and stability, a worthy goal. Anders wanted to end injustice and mistreatment of mages, a worthy goal. Both choose to kill innocent people to try to achieve their goals- worthy goals pursued by grossly unjust means. So, from a moral point of view, the situations appear to be equivalent. I'm not sure what about "the situation and the system" you think justifies Anders' actions- so far as I can tell, the only way Anders' atrocity could be justified is if it was literally the ONLY possible way to prevent an even greater atrocity than the one Anders committed. And similarly for Merideth. But I'm aware of no in-game evidence to think this to be the case, for either of them. Anders, like Merideth, almost certainly had other, less evil/immoral options available to them.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 2, 2018 22:29:07 GMT
* also worth noting that both Merideth and Anders express awareness that their actions are morally problematic, and even seem genuinely contrite: Anders' expresses regret over the innocent lives lost in the chantry explosion, and Merideth expresses regret that she is lumping the innocent mages in with those who have actually done something wrong. I honestly never realized, prior to this discussion, just how parallel these two character's situations/actions are in that final act. Interesting, at least to me.
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Post by Catilina on May 2, 2018 23:09:36 GMT
* also worth noting that both Merideth and Anders express awareness that their actions are morally problematic, and even seem genuinely contrite: Anders' expresses regret over the innocent lives lost in the chantry explosion, and Merideth expresses regret that she is lumping the innocent mages in with those who have actually done something wrong. I honestly never realized, prior to this discussion, just how parallel these two character's situations/actions are in that final act. Interesting, at least to me. Meredith didn't regret it really. Yes, were tears in her eyes, when said: "If you cannot tell me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" – so manipulative and theatrical... no, she didn't regret it for a moment. Anders clearly regret the bloodshed, even in friendship. (In the rivalry he can regret he lived ever... but I don't like this path with him – Justice isn't an excuse!) But if you want, I can show you some similarity between Uldred and Meredith: Uldred dealt with the pride demon for more power against the Templars, and he thought he can handle it, because he's strong enough. Meredith took that demonic power, for more power over the Mages, and she thought she can handle it, because of she strong enough... ("It poisoned Bartrand's mind" – "He was weak, while I'm not.")
You can say this parallel works with Anders too – but Anders was able to keep himself – even his humanity –so there a big chance, Justice still a spirit... or/and Anders stronger... (of course, I'm biased) So I think, this parallel can exist (worth better than with Orsino), but they're also not equal, and not Meredith the winner of the comparison.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 2, 2018 23:57:09 GMT
* also worth noting that both Merideth and Anders express awareness that their actions are morally problematic, and even seem genuinely contrite: Anders' expresses regret over the innocent lives lost in the chantry explosion, and Merideth expresses regret that she is lumping the innocent mages in with those who have actually done something wrong. I honestly never realized, prior to this discussion, just how parallel these two character's situations/actions are in that final act. Interesting, at least to me. Meredith didn't regret it really. Yes, were tears in her eyes, when said: "If you cannot tell me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" – so manipulative and theatrical... no, she didn't regret it for a moment. Anders clearly regret the bloodshed, even in friendship. (In the rivalry he can regret he lived ever... but I don't like this path with him – Justice isn't an excuse!) This wasn't my impression- what makes you think her regret wasn't genuine? When Merideth says that, her facial expression changes visibly, softens, as does her tone of voice- this to me indicated her regret was real. Or maybe she's just a world-class actress. But that seems unlikely; we weren't given any indications Merideth was much of a thespian, so the safe conclusion seems to be that things are as they seem. Now, I think that additional factors make Merideth a less sympathetic figure than Anders (her ego, for one thing), but ultimately I don't see any significant moral difference between Merideth killing innocent Circle mages to help restore order and Anders killing innocent Chantry sisters and worshipers to help fight mistreatment of mages. Both of them undermine the rightness of their goal with the (unambiguous and extreme) wrongness of their methods. But there's also an incongruity or asymmetry in the final choice between helping Merideth vs. Orsino: you can support the mages without condoning Anders' atrocity (since you can side with the mages, and still denounce or even kill Anders), whereas supporting the templars means participating in (and therefore implicitly endorsing) Merideth's atrocity.
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Post by Catilina on May 3, 2018 0:44:31 GMT
Meredith didn't regret it really. Yes, were tears in her eyes, when said: "If you cannot tell me another way, do not brand me a tyrant!" – so manipulative and theatrical... no, she didn't regret it for a moment. Anders clearly regret the bloodshed, even in friendship. (In the rivalry he can regret he lived ever... but I don't like this path with him – Justice isn't an excuse!) This wasn't my impression- what makes you think her regret wasn't genuine? When Merideth says that, her facial expression changes visibly, softens, as does her tone of voice- this to me indicated her regret was real. Or maybe she's just a world-class actress. But that seems unlikely; we weren't given any indications Merideth was much of a thespian, so the safe conclusion seems to be that things are as they seem. Now, I think that additional factors make Merideth a less sympathetic figure than Anders (her ego, for one thing), but ultimately I don't see any significant moral difference between Merideth killing innocent Circle mages to help restore order and Anders killing innocent Chantry sisters and worshipers to help fight mistreatment of mages. Both of them undermine the rightness of their goal with the (unambiguous and extreme) wrongness of their methods. But there's also an incongruity or asymmetry in the final choice between helping Merideth vs. Orsino: you can support the mages without condoning Anders' atrocity (since you can side with the mages, and still denounce or even kill Anders), whereas supporting the templars means participating in (and therefore implicitly endorsing) Merideth's atrocity. I saw, Meredith wants Hawke's sympathy, so she can smile, and can cry... Remember to the previous quest, there's a moment when Hawke doesn't want to help her to find her escaped blood mages, Meredith blackmails Hawke with Bethany. If Hawke reacts angrily, she says: she just wanted to say, Bethany's a good mage... Meredith can play. When Meredith "cries", was BEFORE Anders' act. After, she HAPPY with killing the mages. She feels she got a chance to kill every mage, and she doesn't show any mercy or regret. The whole comedy before was only for Hawke. (True, almost believable!) However, Anders was really horrified, when he realized, what he did exactly. He was not prepared for it, this seems. (Great face expression even with Meredith and Anders too!) Anders didn't kill praying worshippers, the Chantry at twilight/evening was almost empty. True, undoubtedly, he killed dozens, but his goal was not killing people, but starting a revolution, while Meredith goal was killing people. That was not necessary for restore the order. Still not same. Okay, I know... murder happened, people died (I know, this is really shocking and cruel) – this is why Anders/Justice accepted the judgement – even the death sentence. This is a great scene. And perhaps it's just me, but I can't forget, that Anders healed people and worked on a more peaceful solution for years, while Meredith killed/tortured and tranquilized people (for lesser reasons than a love letter, according to Cullen, in Inquisition), who was under her protection... – even without red lyrium... and already sent the letter for the Right of Annulment. She already planned that. *** But yes, exactly. If Hawke stay with Meredith, s/he accept to fight for the annulment – for some "order" of a tyrant (Hawke can't expect, Meredith will die or will retreat), while when decide to protect the mages, Hawke can actively(!) refuse Anders' act, and even can kill him, and also can hate Orsino, it's no matter, he still just one mage... and because the mages will run away – Kirkwall won: free from Meredith and from the mages – this is what Hawke can see at the moment, without meta knowledge – according to me, ofc. (Many people condemn Anders' act, kill him, and even hate Orsino, but still support the mages. Only a few – like me – can accept what Anders did, and support with Hawke.)
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Post by q5tyhj on May 3, 2018 3:10:38 GMT
This wasn't my impression- what makes you think her regret wasn't genuine? When Merideth says that, her facial expression changes visibly, softens, as does her tone of voice- this to me indicated her regret was real. Or maybe she's just a world-class actress. But that seems unlikely; we weren't given any indications Merideth was much of a thespian, so the safe conclusion seems to be that things are as they seem. Now, I think that additional factors make Merideth a less sympathetic figure than Anders (her ego, for one thing), but ultimately I don't see any significant moral difference between Merideth killing innocent Circle mages to help restore order and Anders killing innocent Chantry sisters and worshipers to help fight mistreatment of mages. Both of them undermine the rightness of their goal with the (unambiguous and extreme) wrongness of their methods. But there's also an incongruity or asymmetry in the final choice between helping Merideth vs. Orsino: you can support the mages without condoning Anders' atrocity (since you can side with the mages, and still denounce or even kill Anders), whereas supporting the templars means participating in (and therefore implicitly endorsing) Merideth's atrocity. I saw, Meredith wants Hawke's sympathy, so she can smile, and can cry... Remember to the previous quest, there's a moment when Hawke doesn't want to help her to find her escaped blood mages, Meredith blackmails Hawke with Bethany. If Hawke reacts angrily, she says: she just wanted to say, Bethany's a good mage... Meredith can play. When Meredith "cries", was BEFORE Anders' act. After, she HAPPY with killing the mages. She feels she got a chance to kill every mage, and she doesn't show any mercy or regret. The whole comedy before was only for Hawke. (True, almost believable!) However, Anders was really horrified, when he realized, what he did exactly. He was not prepared for it, this seems. (Great face expression even with Meredith and Anders too!) Anders didn't kill praying worshippers, the Chantry at twilight/evening was almost empty. True, undoubtedly, he killed dozens, but his goal was not killing people, but starting a revolution, while Meredith goal was killing people. That was not necessary for restore the order. Still not same. Okay, I know... murder happened, people died (I know, this is really shocking and cruel) – this is why Anders/Justice accepted the judgement – even the death sentence. This is a great scene. And perhaps it's just me, but I can't forget, that Anders healed people and worked on a more peaceful solution for years, while Meredith killed/tortured and tranquilized people (for lesser reasons than a love letter, according to Cullen, in Inquisition), who was under her protection... – even without red lyrium... and already sent the letter for the Right of Annulment. She already planned that. *** But yes, exactly. If Hawke stay with Meredith, s/he accept to fight for the annulment – for some "order" of a tyrant (Hawke can't expect, Meredith will die or will retreat), while when decide to protect the mages, Hawke can actively(!) refuse Anders' act, and even can kill him, and also can hate Orsino, it's no matter, he still just one mage... and because the mages will run away – Kirkwall won: free from Meredith and from the mages – this is what Hawke can see at the moment, without meta knowledge – according to me, ofc. (Many people condemn Anders' act, kill him, and even hate Orsino, but still support the mages. Only a few – like me – can accept what Anders did, and support with Hawke.) Merideth threatening Bethany to manipulate Hawke, that fits Merideth's style. But pretending to be sad and contrite to win sympathy? That seems strikingly out of character for her. And you'd think that if she was trying to recruit Hawke by feigning contrition and empathy, she would have tried a little bit harder- as it was, it was just that one comment, directed to Orsino and not Hawke at all. I also think that representing someone as acting or pretending in a movie or video game is a little bit tricky and so the devs/writers would have given us more of a clue if that was actually what was going on. So I think that exchange shows that Merideth isn't completely lost to all sense or decency, but is aware, at least on some level, that tarring all mages with the same brush is unjust (your point that Anders expresses regret after he blows up the chantry, whereas Merideth expresses regret before calling for the annulment and not after, however, is a good one, and well taken). But I would also agree that Anders' regret seems to run much deeper, seems to weigh him down alot more than it does Merideth, and the fact that Anders accepts Hawke's judgment, even his own death, without complaint says alot (impossible to imagine Merideth accepting Hawke's judgment like this). And as I said before, Anders does strike a more sympathetic figure in general (his work as a healer is definitely a factor in this). But ultimately, neither his regret nor his being a nicer guy than Merideth stopped him from doing what he did, and both/either are pretty small consolation for the innocent lives in the chantry that Anders deemed less important than his crusade. And the killing of innocents is the most pressing ethical consideration out of this whole situation, and in that respect Merideth and Anders are in the same boat. So even if the two's situations aren't strictly identical or equivalent as I said earlier, the differences are still mostly differences in degree, not in kind.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 3, 2018 9:17:28 GMT
Not to keep beating a dead horse, but doesn’t the Right of Annulment include killing the (children) apprentices as well as the adult mages? I don't remember DA2 addressing it in-game, but the “Codex Entry: The Annulment at Dairsmuid” says that “it is their right to put screaming apprentices to the sword”, and “Codex Entry: The Right of Annulment” says that the Right grants “the power to purge a Circle entirely”. I think Wynne says something during Broken Tower about defending the children if the Right of Annulment is invoked as well. And I’m pretty sure Bethany mentions teaching apprentices at some point, so we know there are some at the Kirkwall Circle. We don’t know how old they are, but at least according to the Wiki page for the Circle of Magi apprentices are “usually” between 6 and 12 years old (though they don’t give a reference for this, so it may not be correct). But its at least possible they are quite young. So... supporting/assisting the killing of an entire group of people that includes (potentially quite young) children, because someone else did something really bad, and/or because some of those people did bad things, and/or because its what the common mob wants. And this is morally ambiguous because... um... reasons?
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Post by Catilina on May 3, 2018 9:44:20 GMT
Not to keep beating a dead horse, but doesn’t the Right of Annulment include killing the (children) apprentices as well as the adult mages? I don't remember DA2 addressing it in-game, but the “Codex Entry: The Annulment at Dairsmuid” says that “it is their right to put screaming apprentices to the sword”, and “Codex Entry: The Right of Annulment” says that the Right grants “the power to purge a Circle entirely”. I think Wynne says something during Broken Tower about defending the children if the Right of Annulment is invoked as well. And I’m pretty sure Bethany mentions teaching apprentices at some point, so we know there are some at the Kirkwall Circle. We don’t know how old they are, but at least according to the Wiki page for the Circle of Magi apprentices are “usually” between 6 and 12 years old (though they don’t give a reference for this, so it may not be correct). But its at least possible they are quite young. So... supporting/assisting the killing of an entire group of people that includes (potentially quite young) children, because of what someone else did, and/or because of what some of those people did, and/or because its what the common mob wants. And this is morally ambiguous because... um... reasons? People can agree with tortures and murders in the name of the "peace" and safety – nobody cares about the victims if they don't see… until they're not involved personally (it's not my problem... perhaps not even happened... seems, they're in a good place, they has everything for the life...etc). It's so barbarian to take the problem from behind the closed doors to the open street! Why they can't suffer, die quietly – the people don't want to be involved in their " non-existent" problems.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2018 17:56:47 GMT
Catilina You argue that while Anders’ emotions are genuine Meredith’s are not, yet I’d argue the opposite has more evidence. Meredith has been shown to be honest to a fault, even Anders says so, while it is fact that Anders lies to Hawke about what he is doing and emotionally manipulated and blackmails then if they have the gall to ask questions, saying things like they don’t really support mages, aren’t really Anders’ friend, to even that they never really loved Anders unless they go along and follow him blindly.
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Post by Catilina on May 3, 2018 18:12:51 GMT
Catilina You argue that while Anders’ emotions are genuine Meredith’s are not, yet I’d argue the opposite has more evidence. Meredith has been shown to be honest to a fault, even Anders says so, while it is fact that Anders lies to Hawke about what he is doing and emotionally manipulated and blackmails then if they have the gall to ask questions, saying things like they don’t really support mages, aren’t really Anders’ friend, to even that they never really loved Anders unless they go along and follow him blindly. He only once he lies. Other times he always rather cruelly honest. It is very clear when Anders is lying – the game shows, he's a terrible liar. And at the end his reaction wery suddenly and only the player sees that, Hawke not – Hawke's behind him. But Meredith's a psychopath. And she changed the tone, when Hawke arrived... before, she yelled at Orsno. But seems you like her more and more, I like it. Perhaps you will support her next time.
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Post by phoray on May 3, 2018 22:44:16 GMT
I came here for the werewolf death. And I leave disappointed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2018 22:53:37 GMT
Yeah, it's long time this got back ontopic. I apologize for my involvement in the derailment.
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davesin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by davesin on May 4, 2018 6:55:08 GMT
I came here for the werewolf death. And I leave disappointed. Phoray, EVERYTHING is mage-templar issue. Denying it is clear evidence you are just blind follower of Chantry rhetorics!
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Aren
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Aren on May 4, 2018 10:18:36 GMT
Killing the werewolves after you cured them is like giving hope to people only to take it away from them,so it's definetly one of the most evil things one could do.My only issue with it is that is the kind of evil only a dumb person would do;afterall why bother risking one's life fighting Zathrian and his trees to achieve such outcome, just to "prove" you're evil?
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Prince
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Post by Prince on May 10, 2018 14:45:28 GMT
Anders is the embodiment of what I hate the most about Bioware: The Characters you can't get rid off no matter you do. He appears in DAA,and despite what you do(Killing/not recruiting Justice or Killing\not recruiting Anders,or both)you still achieve the same ending in DA2.That's mediocre writing and it influence the whole plot line of DAI. He isn't the worst offender however,the worst are those useless NPC coming from DAO all the way back in DAI and beyond,because the writers wants to continue their story which I don't care about.
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Post by Catilina on May 10, 2018 16:26:41 GMT
Anders is the embodiment of what I hate the most about Bioware: The Characters you can't get rid off no matter you do. He appears in DAA,and despite what you do(Killing/not recruiting Justice or Killing\not recruiting Anders,or both)you still achieve the same ending in DA2.That's mediocre writing and it influence the whole plot line of DAI. He isn't the worst offender however,the worst are those useless NPC coming from DAO all the way back in DAI and beyond,because the writers wants to continue their story which I don't care about. It's lame, that Justice and Anders can die – because I think, they planned to bring back at least Justice and Velanna or Anders was a question for a while – but Anders better to the situation. According to me, Anders and Justice's merging was the greatest idea ever. So: I can forgive this little flaw... I also love Morrigan's story, in fact, I would like if our choice with her child, would have more role in the game. I agree, that they must be careful with the freedom of choices. It too hard to plan a series, while they give us decisions, even over the characters. I even like for example Bodahn and Sandal, and I even don't bother the other NPC if I see them again...
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on May 11, 2018 0:54:56 GMT
Killing the werewolves after you cured them is like giving hope to people only to take it away from them,so it's definetly one of the most evil things one could do.My only issue with it is that is the kind of evil only a dumb person would do;afterall why bother risking one's life fighting Zathrian and his trees to achieve such outcome, just to "prove" you're evil? Exactly, that's why I don't play chaotic evil characters in games with alignment systems. The only type of evil I play is lawful evil. The only way I would kill them is if I get something in return. I don't mean a few coins and a sword. I mean a lofty position in the government while being paid handsomely weekly. And if that were to be, my lawful evil character would pay the chaotic evil character to do it. So if the CE character is caught and executed after my character reports him to the authorities. My LE character reaps the benefits.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 25, 2018 6:33:54 GMT
Why would anyone do such a thing? I would.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 6:36:28 GMT
Why would anyone do such a thing? I would. Why? It's a complete and utter waste of time to do all that just to kill them in the end...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2018 6:41:25 GMT
Why? It's a complete and utter waste of time to do all that just to kill them in the end... Almost guarantee it is going to involve him projecting real world racism or something onto the situation.
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