Croatsky
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Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 18, 2018 2:53:55 GMT
Drew is overrated, to be honest.
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Post by goishen on Apr 11, 2018 16:29:36 GMT
Start @ about 23:52.
Generic "he has left to pursue other opportunities" letter.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 12, 2018 10:41:07 GMT
"Drew has wrapped up his work" is PR. We'll probably see some of his writing in the final game but I also think something must've been cut. Drew mentioned frustrations. Last time he left he also said lack of personal creative control is sometimes a tiring aspect of writing for games at such a big company. We don't know, but we can guess and stuff. I think he was a Senior writer tasked with a fairly large aspect of the game, and over the course of development leaders changed, project direction changed some milestones were hit and others had to be rethought etc. The usual BioWare stuff. Check this for instance: Patrick Weekes TweetAnd I have absolutely no doubts that whatever Schlerf or Drew did for Andromeda and Anthem respectively had the same treatment but on a different level.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 20:29:39 GMT
Start @ about 23:52. Generic "he has left to pursue other opportunities" letter. Drew can sue EA then if he wants to. Unless he does and wins, it's all purely supposition. It's true that many letters saying such things are PR to cover up a firing and such; but a good many of them are also genuine. It's also Drew's right to choose to leave a company to pursue his own interests if he wants to. A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door.
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Post by goishen on Apr 12, 2018 21:34:08 GMT
Start @ about 23:52. Generic "he has left to pursue other opportunities" letter. Drew can sue EA then if he wants to. Unless he does and wins, it's all purely supposition. It's true that many letters saying such things are PR to cover up a firing and such; but a good many of them are also genuine. It's also Drew's right to choose to leave a company to pursue his own interests if he wants to. A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door. Sue them over what, exactly?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 21:39:29 GMT
Drew can sue EA then if he wants to. Unless he does and wins, it's all purely supposition. It's true that many letters saying such things are PR to cover up a firing and such; but a good many of them are also genuine. It's also Drew's right to choose to leave a company to pursue his own interests if he wants to. A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door. Sue them over what, exactly? The guy in your example sued the company who wrote his letter for him. My point - I really don't get what you were trying to prove by posting it.
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Post by goishen on Apr 12, 2018 23:56:25 GMT
Yah, because they were trying to dick him out of stock options.
WTF are you talking about ?
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 13, 2018 13:10:39 GMT
Drew can sue EA then if he wants to. Unless he does and wins, it's all purely supposition. It's true that many letters saying such things are PR to cover up a firing and such; but a good many of them are also genuine. It's also Drew's right to choose to leave a company to pursue his own interests if he wants to. A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door. Why would them hiring concern you? If anything it means that BioWare is growing for if there were a lot of people leaving BioWare it would have been front page news all over the internet by now. I have seen major "articles" talking about how it is a major problem for BioWare that someone that has the label "senior" is leaving and is going to hurt whatever game or BioWare and I had never heard of them before. So if there were a lot of people leaving I bet it would be that EA is firing everyone because they said "maybe" to lootboxes or that "EA is blaming everyone for Andromeda" or something else that sound insane.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:20:57 GMT
Drew can sue EA then if he wants to. Unless he does and wins, it's all purely supposition. It's true that many letters saying such things are PR to cover up a firing and such; but a good many of them are also genuine. It's also Drew's right to choose to leave a company to pursue his own interests if he wants to. A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door. Why would them hiring concern you? If anything it means that BioWare is growing for if there were a lot of people leaving BioWare it would have been front page news all over the internet by now. I have seen major "articles" talking about how it is a major problem for BioWare that someone that has the label "senior" is leaving and is going to hurt whatever game or BioWare and I had never heard of them before. So if there were a lot of people leaving I bet it would be that EA is firing everyone because they said "maybe" to lootboxes or that "EA is blaming everyone for Andromeda" or something else that sound insane. I did mention that it was the number of "Senior positions" that concern me, several of which are listed specifically for Anthem. Expansions usually involve hiring grunts. If they are expanding, great that's good news. If they're changing the guard (i.e. filling positions where people have given notice of leaving, but haven't left yet), that's a concern. It wouldn't hit the news until the person intending to leave has actually left. Also, it depends on the quality of people they are now able to attract to fill those openings. If all the bad press they've been getting means that the quality people in the industry are not applying for those openings, the overall quality of the staff will go down. I'm not suggesting that EA is firing anyone. I believe Drew left because he wanted to... whether it was because he was unhappy there or because he truly has other opportunities he wishes to pursue is his affair. I'm believing the sincerity of what he's been saying (In short, I believe he wrote his own resignation, not some EA exec... which was the case that goishen posted). However, if he left because he was unhappy and if there are a number of others there who are intending to leave because they are unhappy - that's simply not a good trend and it makes it hard for a company to recover from a public reputation hit like the over-criticism that landed on Andromeda.
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Post by goishen on Apr 13, 2018 14:13:28 GMT
Agreed, it is curious how "along the sides" of the argument it takes, with only the PR bullshit we have that is the same. And no matter what, it will always be along the sides, unless we hear from Drew or someone who works at BioWare.
I'm simply going to believe that it was creative differences (Drew saw the project going one way, BW upper management another, that caused friction) ultimately leading to his dismissal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 20:59:32 GMT
A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door. It may just be a reflection of a round of internal promotions happening or planned. Some companies have a policy of publicizing every single position they aim to fill, even when they already have an internal candidate in mind. That policy can also help them collect some higher quality resumes (to backfill or for recon on competitors) than they'd likely get if they advertised only the entry level positions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 22:21:37 GMT
A bigger concern in my book is the sheer number of senior positions currently listed as being open on the careers portion of Bioware's website. I don't have a whole lot of hope for this company surviving long enough to release a DA4. At this rate, they may not even get Anthem out the door. It may just be a reflection of a round of internal promotions happening or planned. Some companies have a policy of publicizing every single position they aim to fill, even when they already have an internal candidate in mind. That policy can also help them collect some higher quality resumes (to backfill or for recon on competitors) than they'd likely get if they advertised only the entry level positions. True. I do hope any concerns (mine or anyone else's) are completely unwarranted.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 16, 2018 3:30:19 GMT
Jesus, fandom is the worst.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 16, 2018 4:53:16 GMT
Jesus, fandom is the worst. My belief is still that BioWare needs to make less changes due to what they are reading about what the internet is saying about their games. If they do what one side is saying that should be there or changed there is another vocal group that doesn't like it. To me that was the problem I had with Andromeda is they were trying to add features and systems that people kept saying that should be added, tweaked, or revisited. To me what makes a game enjoyable is that the systems and features are added to compliment the goal and story of the game which only BioWare knows so shoving something into the game because "fans want it" hurts the game because it might not compliment what they are trying to accomplish.
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Post by helios969 on Apr 16, 2018 10:39:08 GMT
Jesus, fandom is the worst. My belief is still that BioWare needs to make less changes due to what they are reading about what the internet is saying about their games. If they do what one side is saying that should be there or changed there is another vocal group that doesn't like it. To me that was the problem I had with Andromeda is they were trying to add features and systems that people kept saying that should be added, tweaked, or revisited. To me what makes a game enjoyable is that the systems and features are added to compliment the goal and story of the game which only BioWare knows so shoving something into the game because "fans want it" hurts the game because it might not compliment what they are trying to accomplish. That's how I feel about the addition of the open world into their games. People were crying out to get Skyrim's scope believing they'd get Bioware's traditional storytelling woven throughout. Instead the resources poured into creating that is done so at the cost of story elements...nevermind that it detracts from narrative focus. I also hate the fact that they have to reimagine themselves with each installment. Instead of refining and building off DAI (which 4 years later is still a good-looking game) and dropping DA4 3 years later, we'll wait 6 years so they can create an entirely new game from scratch. It'll be the same thing for any future ME game. They should be pumping out games every 18 months, instead they're just kind of floundering about trying to copy others successes (Skyrim, Destiny, etc...) I wish they'd just pick what they're going to be and stick with it. I wonder how successful Naughty Dog games would be if they felt the need to recreate their gameplay elements with each installment...probably wouldn't have been able to build their playerbase to what it is now.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 16, 2018 12:46:28 GMT
My belief is still that BioWare needs to make less changes due to what they are reading about what the internet is saying about their games. If they do what one side is saying that should be there or changed there is another vocal group that doesn't like it. To me that was the problem I had with Andromeda is they were trying to add features and systems that people kept saying that should be added, tweaked, or revisited. To me what makes a game enjoyable is that the systems and features are added to compliment the goal and story of the game which only BioWare knows so shoving something into the game because "fans want it" hurts the game because it might not compliment what they are trying to accomplish. That's how I feel about the addition of the open world into their games. People were crying out to get Skyrim's scope believing they'd get Bioware's traditional storytelling woven throughout. Instead the resources poured into creating that is done so at the cost of story elements...nevermind that it detracts from narrative focus. I also hate the fact that they have to reimagine themselves with each installment. Instead of refining and building off DAI (which 4 years later is still a good-looking game) and dropping DA4 3 years later, we'll wait 6 years so they can create an entirely new game from scratch. It'll be the same thing for any future ME game. They should be pumping out games every 18 months, instead they're just kind of floundering about trying to copy others successes (Skyrim, Destiny, etc...) I wish they'd just pick what they're going to be and stick with it. I wonder how successful Naughty Dog games would be if they felt the need to recreate their gameplay elements with each installment...probably wouldn't have been able to build their playerbase to what it is now. I agree, I think with the new team they were trying to impress the fans by giving us an open world game, but BioWare proved they were either unable to do it or their story telling methods don't work with open world when dealing with Dragon Age: Origins. To me The Deep Roads showed the flaws with going too much down the path of open world with a BioWare game and Andromeda felt like a much bigger version of that. As a backseat developer/analyst I think the consistency between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 is what made the game more popular for people knew what they were getting. There were changes such as the combat overhaul, but the game still felt pretty much the same. Copying the successes of other developers isn't a big problem if it is something they have familiarity with or if it fits within what they are trying to do. I think chaining developers to certain things is a bad idea for then they have burnout and why I think BioWare has been able to hang onto people for along as they have because they are able to flex their development muscles. I think the route they are going for Anthem is the best by making it a new IP, I don't think I would have been interested in Anthem if it was just slapping looter-shooter onto Mass Effect, but because it is something new they can develop everything around that idea. I rather not have BioWare be Ubisoft in that instead of naming franchises they are just making Ubisoft Game (Spring 2018) which is what the new Farcry game feels like to me for Assassin's Creed, Farcry, and Watch Dogs are blend together and have no interest for me, I normally pick up one of those titles when they are on sale every few years.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 18, 2018 14:39:57 GMT
So near the end of a Layman's Gaming episode this news was dropped. Here's a link to Drew's announcement, no need to watch video. Was really hyped to hear his return to work with Casey Hudson on this new sci-fi ip, only to be let down hearing that he left once again. My opinion, he was the main reason Mass Effect 1 & 2 had great stories (ME3 story is nothing but fail to me, it's the only Mass Effect I can't finish anymore when replaying Trilogy. It's like the kid fan fiction version of Mass Effect). And in my opinion Casey Hudson having good sci-fi eye and taste is the main reason Mass Effect Trilogy ooze in sci-fi atmosphere direction excellence. Well, here's hoping the gameplay & atmosphere still holds up and saves Anthem like it did Mass Effect 3 with multiplayer. Only thing keeping me hyped besides Casey Hudson's return. So this game may still reunite us all again.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 18, 2018 15:07:06 GMT
Made sense to fold this into the existing thread. Thanks for not making watching that video mandatory...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 15:12:20 GMT
So near the end of a Layman's Gaming episode this news was dropped. Here's a link to Drew's announcement, no need to watch video. Was really hyped to hear his return to work with Casey Hudson on this new sci-fi ip, only to be let down hearing that he left once again. My opinion, he was the main reason Mass Effect 1 & 2 had great stories (ME3 story is nothing but fail to me, it's the only Mass Effect I can't finish anymore when replaying Trilogy. It's like the kid fan fiction version of Mass Effect). And in my opinion Casey Hudson having good sci-fi eye and taste is the main reason Mass Effect Trilogy ooze in sci-fi atmosphere direction excellence. Well, here's hoping the gameplay & atmosphere still holds up and saves Anthem like it did Mass Effect 3 with multiplayer. Only thing keeping me hyped besides Casey Hudson's return. So this game may still reunite us all again. Mass Effect 2's störy sucked.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 18, 2018 21:09:34 GMT
"Drew has wrapped up his work" is PR. We'll probably see some of his writing in the final game but I also think something must've been cut. Drew mentioned frustrations. Last time he left he also said lack of personal creative control is sometimes a tiring aspect of writing for games at such a big company. We don't know, but we can guess and stuff. I think he was a Senior writer tasked with a fairly large aspect of the game, and over the course of development leaders changed, project direction changed some milestones were hit and others had to be rethought etc. The usual BioWare stuff. Check this for instance: Patrick Weekes TweetAnd I have absolutely no doubts that whatever Schlerf or Drew did for Andromeda and Anthem respectively had the same treatment but on a different level. Okay, if it’s PR, then why did he pointedly outline his desire to pursue personal projects in his post? It’s not like this is something he hasn’t done before. Drew is perhaps the most overhyped writer in gaming (Laymen in particular talk about him like he’s the only competent writer to work at the company to the point where they downplay the role of other writers in everything he’s worked on even if he wasn’t the lead or just wrote part of the story) but I don’t think I’ll ever understand why people are so downright eager to assume the worst even when the evidence doesn’t bare that out.
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Post by goishen on Apr 18, 2018 23:12:23 GMT
Because no one's gonna say, "I got canned and deserved it."
I mean, I would think as smart as you are you would know that people, especially developers, have at least a modicum of tact.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 18, 2018 23:17:34 GMT
Because no one's gonna say, "I got canned and deserved it." I mean, I would think as smart as you are you would know that people, especially developers, have at least a modicum of tact. That’s just assuming the worst though, you have not a shred of evidence that that is the case.
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Post by goishen on Apr 18, 2018 23:20:47 GMT
Because no one's gonna say, "I got canned and deserved it." I mean, I would think as smart as you are you would know that people, especially developers, have at least a modicum of tact. That’s just assuming the worst though, you have not a shred of evidence that that is the case. Dude. Heh. Fine, believe what you want. Believe that high fructose corn syrup is the same as sugar. I mean, if they said it on TV, it must be true. Amirite?
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 18, 2018 23:22:55 GMT
That’s just assuming the worst though, you have not a shred of evidence that that is the case. Dude. Heh. Fine, believe what you want. Believe that high fructose corn syrup is the same as sugar. I mean, if they said it on TV, it must be true. Amirite? Insulting me in lieu of reason or evidence, classy. Seriously Karpyshyn has done this exact thing before, what’s different this time?
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4,632
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
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Linkenski
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 19, 2018 8:23:49 GMT
So near the end of a Layman's Gaming episode this news was dropped. Here's a link to Drew's announcement, no need to watch video. Was really hyped to hear his return to work with Casey Hudson on this new sci-fi ip, only to be let down hearing that he left once again. My opinion, he was the main reason Mass Effect 1 & 2 had great stories (ME3 story is nothing but fail to me, it's the only Mass Effect I can't finish anymore when replaying Trilogy. It's like the kid fan fiction version of Mass Effect). And in my opinion Casey Hudson having good sci-fi eye and taste is the main reason Mass Effect Trilogy ooze in sci-fi atmosphere direction excellence. Well, here's hoping the gameplay & atmosphere still holds up and saves Anthem like it did Mass Effect 3 with multiplayer. Only thing keeping me hyped besides Casey Hudson's return. So this game may still reunite us all again. Mass Effect 2's störy sucked. Drew also didn't wrap it up himself. Mac Walters said early in ME2 the staff knew Drew wanted to leave so they groomed Mac as the new lead throughout the project.
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