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Post by KaiserShep on May 16, 2018 19:39:23 GMT
Just saw Black Panther. It was good, but I’m not sure how they’ll continue it in any sequels. Not because of what happens in Infinity War, but because 2 of T’Challa’s biggest villains are now dead in the same movie, and his third biggest nemesis, M’baku, is more of an ally than an enemy now. I admit I’m not as familiar with Panther as other figures in Marvel, so I’m sure he has other people to fight besides Klaue, Killmonger, and Man-Ape, but I dunno where to continue with T’Challa. And, this movie brings to mind one of the nitpicks I’ve had with the MCU pretty much since day one: the seemingly random and arbitrary changes from the source material. The ones that don’t really affect how the plot plays out, but just make me question what the point of the change was. In this particular case: Shuri. Shuri in the movie is a techno-geek who could put Tony Stark to shame with her inventions. In the main comic continuity, that’s... not her schtick. Of the royal siblings in the books, T’Challa is the tech-wizard. Shuri is more of a folk historian and mystic, more inclined to the use of magic when she takes on the role of Panther. Like, what was the point of this change? It’s not as if the supernatural element of Shuri’s comic counterpart would be out of place, since the movie already plasters Bast everywhere and has several scenes in the Ancestral Plane. If anything, the exploration of the mystical roots of the Panther and the ties to Bast would have been fascinating to explore. Hopefully, if there is a sequel, Shuri becomes closer to her comic counterpart and this element of the setting is elaborated on. I also wasn’t a HUGE fan of how quippy T’Challa is in the movie, but the MCU has done that to every other hero who is supposed to be more serious anyway, so whatever, but I would still like for... any of the main characters to take shit seriously and not just crack jokes all day long. T’Challa in the books can be a right ruthless son of a bitch when he has to (which is... actually pretty often). Other than that, it was pretty solid. The CGI for the war rhinos was fucking terrible though. I was going to say the Skrulls could play a part in a BP sequel, but they're going to be part of Captain Marvel, so it'd feel pretty cheap to use them as the primary baddie there too. They could go with Mephisto, who is basically just Satan in a cape.
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2018 20:28:30 GMT
It was curious watching Age of Ultron again during the end scene I had assumed the next one would have that lineup...and being relatively excited for it. Little did I know...
Watching the first two back to back and really watching it I really enjoyed Ultron a lot more in comparison. Avengers is still a great movie for the most part just Ultron really did a lot of stuff deeper and really well.
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Post by o Ventus on May 16, 2018 21:56:38 GMT
Just saw Black Panther. It was good, but I’m not sure how they’ll continue it in any sequels. Not because of what happens in Infinity War, but because 2 of T’Challa’s biggest villains are now dead in the same movie, and his third biggest nemesis, M’baku, is more of an ally than an enemy now. I admit I’m not as familiar with Panther as other figures in Marvel, so I’m sure he has other people to fight besides Klaue, Killmonger, and Man-Ape, but I dunno where to continue with T’Challa. And, this movie brings to mind one of the nitpicks I’ve had with the MCU pretty much since day one: the seemingly random and arbitrary changes from the source material. The ones that don’t really affect how the plot plays out, but just make me question what the point of the change was. In this particular case: Shuri. Shuri in the movie is a techno-geek who could put Tony Stark to shame with her inventions. In the main comic continuity, that’s... not her schtick. Of the royal siblings in the books, T’Challa is the tech-wizard. Shuri is more of a folk historian and mystic, more inclined to the use of magic when she takes on the role of Panther. Like, what was the point of this change? It’s not as if the supernatural element of Shuri’s comic counterpart would be out of place, since the movie already plasters Bast everywhere and has several scenes in the Ancestral Plane. If anything, the exploration of the mystical roots of the Panther and the ties to Bast would have been fascinating to explore. Hopefully, if there is a sequel, Shuri becomes closer to her comic counterpart and this element of the setting is elaborated on. I also wasn’t a HUGE fan of how quippy T’Challa is in the movie, but the MCU has done that to every other hero who is supposed to be more serious anyway, so whatever, but I would still like for... any of the main characters to take shit seriously and not just crack jokes all day long. T’Challa in the books can be a right ruthless son of a bitch when he has to (which is... actually pretty often). Other than that, it was pretty solid. The CGI for the war rhinos was fucking terrible though. I was going to say the Skrulls could play a part in a BP sequel, but they're going to be part of Captain Marvel, so it'd feel pretty cheap to use them as the primary baddie there too. They could go with Mephisto, who is basically just Satan in a cape. Mephisto, I feel, would be better introduced in something involving Ghost Rider (pretty much any of them), since Rider is probably the one with the most history with Mephisto. I’m hoping to see something with Johnny Blaze. He had a tease/cameo in Agents of Shield when Robby Reyes was introduced, but Robby has been the main Rider and Johnny’s just sort of disappeared.
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HK90210
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Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by HK90210 on May 16, 2018 22:02:54 GMT
It was curious watching Age of Ultron again during the end scene I had assumed the next one would have that lineup...and being relatively excited for it. Little did I know... Watching the first two back to back and really watching it I really enjoyed Ultron a lot more in comparison. Avengers is still a great movie for the most part just Ultron really did a lot of stuff deeper and really well. I know a lot of people are on the Hela/Killmonger/Thanos train right now, but I still think Ultron is the best villain of the MCU to date. My top 5: 1. Ultron 2. Loki 3. Aldrich Killian(Bad guy in Iron Man 3. HIGHLY underrated, IMO) 4. Thanos 5. Ego
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2018 23:07:15 GMT
It was curious watching Age of Ultron again during the end scene I had assumed the next one would have that lineup...and being relatively excited for it. Little did I know... Watching the first two back to back and really watching it I really enjoyed Ultron a lot more in comparison. Avengers is still a great movie for the most part just Ultron really did a lot of stuff deeper and really well. I know a lot of people are on the Hela/Killmonger/Thanos train right now, but I still think Ultron is the best villain of the MCU to date. My top 5: 1. Ultron 2. Loki 3. Aldrich Killian(Bad guy in Iron Man 3. HIGHLY underrated, IMO) 4. Thanos 5. Ego I think they actually could have given him the Thanos treatment tbh. A. For the movie to be called 'Age of Ultron' Ultron reallly did not do that...much. I suppose they gave him more screen time then Loki but I think I was half expecting them to set up a recurring villain and that they would not defeat him. B. Its James Spader and someone of his talent did feel a little underused and generic muhahaha. That being said he still probably is in my top five list, if I were to extend it to a top 5 list, for Marvel villains. As far as Hella and Killmonger are concerned. With Hella she was a very generic typical-of-these-movies type of villain. Very muahaha and her motivations did not really gel with me. Cate Blanchett did a hell of a job with her despite this but, did not really get her. Killmonger...I know I am supposed to feel sympathy with him and I know, intellectually, that his character was more fleshed then a lot of the MCU villains but...I just could not be too arsed about him. He may crack the top 5, but again this is a testement to how weak MCU villains usually are. Which I do wonder if the way to solve this issue(if its worth solving) is to introduce more recurring bad guys into the MCU. The only real example at this point has been Loki, Thanos,and Crossbones (I think his name was). But both Ultron and Hela and maybe Baron Zemo could have, or could all still get I suppose, recurring villain status. Interesting food for thought anyways.
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Post by Andrew Waples on May 16, 2018 23:36:11 GMT
It was curious watching Age of Ultron again during the end scene I had assumed the next one would have that lineup...and being relatively excited for it. Little did I know... Watching the first two back to back and really watching it I really enjoyed Ultron a lot more in comparison. Avengers is still a great movie for the most part just Ultron really did a lot of stuff deeper and really well. I know a lot of people are on the Hela/Killmonger/Thanos train right now, but I still think Ultron is the best villain of the MCU to date. My top 5: 1. Ultron 2. Loki 3. Aldrich Killian(Bad guy in Iron Man 3. HIGHLY underrated, IMO) 4. Thanos 5. Ego 1) Loki most used/developed you feel "sorry" for the character, because he was lied (the irony) to for his entire life. 2)Thanos just for the simple fact he succeeds where every other MCU villain failed. 3) Killmonger I got BP I need to watch it again (going through a MCU run through) to confirm. But similar to Loki, I felt "sorry" for the guy. The rest? Any order it doesn't really matter. I do love the Vision and Ultron dialogue at the end though. LOTS of foreshadowing in that scene. So maybe 4 is Ultron. Oh Grandmaster 5.
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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2018 0:01:51 GMT
Another villain which could crack my top 5 would be 'the Vulture' that scene between him and Spidey in the car probably saved that movie from a tier 4 rating. And probably the first time I actually liked the villain more then the hero.
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Post by smilesja on May 17, 2018 0:06:17 GMT
That's fair. Sö its because öf the comparisön tö öther Marvel villians? Because I've heard peöple say he is an all time great in cinema histöry. I've never seen anyone say he's the greatest in cinematic history, but he's still a very compelling villain that is basically the star of the film over any of the Avengers themselves. I’d hardly call him compelling.
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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2018 0:42:10 GMT
So my updated list.
1. Thanos 2. Baron Zemo 3. Loki 4. The Vulture 5. Ultron.
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Post by mybudgee on May 17, 2018 1:40:42 GMT
... Avengers is still a great movie for the most part just Ultron really did a lot of stuff deeper and really well.
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HK90210
N4
Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by HK90210 on May 17, 2018 3:43:15 GMT
Well, I finally watched Black Panther. Got it n Blu-Ray and gave it a whirl. It's very 'meh' to me. And honestly, Killmonger is HEAVILY overrated as a villain. He's not a BAD Marvel villain, but he's not GREAT either. Klaue was way better. He was ok in Avengers: Age of Ultron, but it was clear that Andy Serkis enjoyed playing Klaue in Black Panther. He stole every scene he was in. He was criminally underused in that film, and the MCU in general.
I would place Black Panther in the lower tier of MCU movies, and Killmonger somewhere in the upper-middle of Marvel villains, next to Zemo.
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Post by Sifr on May 17, 2018 4:08:05 GMT
Ultron wasn't (exactly) a villain, since he was doing exactly what he was supposed to, attempting to find a means to "Save the world" and secure "Peace in our time".
What drove him crazy (within seconds of his creation), was the contradictory nature of those two core directives, when faced with humanity's self-destructive nature and unwillingness to accept change, even if it'd be in own best interests;
"I'm sorry, I know you mean well, but you just didn't think it through. You want to protect the world, but you don't want it to change. How is humanity 'saved', if it's not allowed to evolve? With these? These puppets?"
Tony's hubris was the true villain of AoU... that, and a distinct lack of care when designing AI.
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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2018 8:02:37 GMT
Randm thought time: It has occurred to me that the magic in Doctor Strange is hella cool, but there is something more interesting to it. Kaecilius and his cronies tend to project their magic as offensive weapons, swords and spears and that sort of thing. While Strange and the Ancient One's magic tends to come off more as shields...they can still use their magic offensively but the contrast is telling.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on May 17, 2018 12:11:28 GMT
Randm thought time: It has occurred to me that the magic in Doctor Strange is hella cool, but there is something more interesting to it. Kaecilius and his cronies tend to project their magic as offensive weapons, swords and spears and that sort of thing. While Strange and the Ancient One's magic tends to come off more as shields...they can still use their magic offensively but the contrast is telling. ...but the edge of those "shields" look really sharp. Also, doesn't Dr. Strange manifest a sort of whip/rope thing that he lashes around? He's probably meant to be between the two: shield and spear.
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Post by Andrew Waples on May 17, 2018 12:14:45 GMT
Randm thought time: It has occurred to me that the magic in Doctor Strange is hella cool, but there is something more interesting to it. Kaecilius and his cronies tend to project their magic as offensive weapons, swords and spears and that sort of thing. While Strange and the Ancient One's magic tends to come off more as shields...they can still use their magic offensively but the contrast is telling. ...but the edge of those "shields" look really sharp. Also, doesn't Dr. Strange manifest a sort of whip/rope thing that he lashes around? He's probably meant to be between the two: shield and spear. Yes, at least uses it in his movie, not sure about IW.
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Post by Andrew Waples on May 17, 2018 12:15:12 GMT
So my updated list. 1. Thanos 2. Baron Zemo 3. Loki 4. The Vulture 5. Ultron. Who's Baron Zemo?
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Post by Sifr on May 17, 2018 15:31:54 GMT
Helmut Zemo, the guy responsible for (successfully) turning the Avengers against each other in Civil War.
(The comics version was a German Baron and supervillain, whereas his MCU counterpart is a Sokovian Soldier and more of an anti-villain. Rather than wanting to take over the world, all the MCU version wanted was to avenge the deaths of his family, who were among the "collateral damage" incurred during the Avengers battle with Ultron)
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Post by Andrew Waples on May 17, 2018 15:47:19 GMT
Helmut Zemo, the guy responsible for (successfully) turning the Avengers against each other in Civil War.
(The comics version was a German Baron and supervillain, whereas his MCU counterpart is a Sokovian Soldier and more of an anti-villain. Rather than wanting to take over the world, all the MCU version wanted was to avenge the deaths of his family, who were among the "collateral damage" incurred during the Avengers battle with Ultron)
Oh okay. He was so barely used that I forgot. Yeah, I didn't come out of that movie remembering the villain.
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Post by Sifr on May 17, 2018 16:07:56 GMT
Oh okay. He was so barely used that I forgot. Yeah, I didn't come out of that movie remembering the villain. Yeah, which is why I don't think he really counts as a villain, because while he did set things in motion and manipulate events, aside from blowing up the summit and framing Bucky, he wasn't directly responsible for most of the events in the film.
The accidental deaths in Lagos were Wanda's fault, T'Chaka was the one to call for the Sokovia Accords to monitor Avengers activity and Tony/Cap's argument over the Accords (and Bucky) are what fractured the team.
Zemo was more of a catalyst for the Avengers to destroy themselves, which is why he ended the movie gloating that he won.
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 17, 2018 16:34:18 GMT
Mephisto, I feel, would be better introduced in something involving Ghost Rider (pretty much any of them), since Rider is probably the one with the most history with Mephisto. I’m hoping to see something with Johnny Blaze. He had a tease/cameo in Agents of Shield when Robby Reyes was introduced, but Robby has been the main Rider and Johnny’s just sort of disappeared. I actually liked the Peter Fonda and Nicolas Cage versions from the first Ghost Rider. Pity they didn't do a proper sequel instead of that godawful other piece of shit. ... Avengers is still a great movie for the most part just Ultron really did a lot of stuff deeper and really well. Well, this is the dude who dislikes the Godfather and the Force Unleashed. That speaks for itself.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 16:37:23 GMT
Well, I finally watched Black Panther. Got it n Blu-Ray and gave it a whirl. It's very 'meh' to me. And honestly, Killmonger is HEAVILY overrated as a villain. He's not a BAD Marvel villain, but he's not GREAT either. Klaue was way better. He was ok in Avengers: Age of Ultron, but it was clear that Andy Serkis enjoyed playing Klaue in Black Panther. He stole every scene he was in. He was criminally underused in that film, and the MCU in general. I would place Black Panther in the lower tier of MCU movies, and Killmonger somewhere in the upper-middle of Marvel villains, next to Zemo. What are yöu a racist? Its the greatest mövie öf all time.
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 17, 2018 16:58:07 GMT
I would place Black Panther in the lower tier of MCU movies, and Killmonger somewhere in the upper-middle of Marvel villains, next to Zemo. Scratch that reverse it? Black Panther was mid-tier as a movie, Killmonger was utterly forgettable. MCU villains aren't really the greatest, but I'd rank them as follows: 1.Thanos 2.Loki 3.Ego 4.Hela 5.Zemo
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Post by mybudgee on May 17, 2018 18:00:56 GMT
He had a tease/cameo in Agents of Shield when Robby Reyes was introduced, but Robby has been the main Rider and Johnny’s just sort of disappeared. Pity they didn't do a proper sequel instead of that godawful other piece of shit. Well, this is the dude who dislikes the Godfather and the Force Unleashed. That speaks for itself. I know... it's so bizarre. Is he just trying to be edgy/cute or is it possible that someone could actually have taste this bad?
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Post by Andrew Waples on May 17, 2018 18:07:25 GMT
Pity they didn't do a proper sequel instead of that godawful other piece of shit. Well, this is the dude who dislikes the Godfather and the Force Unleashed. That speaks for itself. I know... it's so bizarre. Is he just trying to be edgy/cute or is it possible that someone could actually have taste this bad? I guess you who have no idea how opinions work, do you?
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