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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 9:53:51 GMT
If he says it's his own words I'd take that at face value. Doesn't mean it wasn't checked/edited and signed-off. This is an object lesson in what a dangerous beast the internet can be. Most of us are protected by our hashtagged anonymity but devs don't have that grace.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 28, 2018 10:05:19 GMT
If he says it's his own words I'd take that at face value. Doesn't mean it wasn't checked/edited and signed-off. This is an object lesson in what a dangerous beast the internet can be. Most of us are protected by our hashtagged anonymity but devs don't have that grace. I bet someone had a talk with him. If it was some Overlord or Mr Common Sense I cannot say.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 10:25:38 GMT
I bet someone had a talk with him. If it was some Overlord or Mr Common Sense I cannot say. I'd bet it too. If I was in his shoes when it kicked off, I'd have called my boss immediately, groveling and asking for help.
EDIT following some research: Particularly given that Mike is barely more than 3 months in the company, it would have been all too easy for BioWare to show him the door (presuming they have a probationary clause, I'd be amazed if not). That's still possible if this doesn't calm down, there are certainly still members of the 'Fuck EA' brigade calling for it, even after the apology. Yet he's worked on some interesting games, ex-Volition with work on Elder Scrolls Online and Shadow of Mordor. Here's his showreel from a few years ago: I hope he survives this, it's probably not a great start to a newish job...
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 13:57:02 GMT
So question,
what has been the reaction on the official BioWare/Anthem twitters?
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Post by Hrungr on May 28, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
So question, what has been the reaction on the official BioWare/Anthem twitters? Casey's was the official BW tweet, but a few other devs have chimed in on this as well.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 14:15:58 GMT
So question, what has been the reaction on the official BioWare/Anthem twitters? Casey's was the official BW tweet, but a few other devs have chimed in on this as well. And reaction by other folks following them? I would presume mostly a sea of "fake apology" and "fuck BioWare" chants being the loudest.
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Post by Hrungr on May 28, 2018 14:22:08 GMT
Casey's was the official BW tweet, but a few other devs have chimed in on this as well. And reaction by other folks following them? I would presume mostly a sea of "fake apology" and "fuck BioWare" chants being the loudest. The replies were... surprisingly positive actually (to Casey's tweet anyway).
Most seemed to appreciate the gesture. But from the way Casey had phrased it though, I think a number of people thought he had fired him.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 14:24:25 GMT
And reaction by other folks following them? I would presume mostly a sea of "fake apology" and "fuck BioWare" chants being the loudest. The replies were... surprisingly positive actually (to Casey's tweet anyway).
Most seemed to appreciate the gesture. But from the way Casey had phrased it though, I think a number of people thought he had fired him. I meant mostly Jungbluth and other BioWare/Anthem staff, I would figure the positive reach from Hudson.
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Post by Hrungr on May 28, 2018 14:37:33 GMT
The replies were... surprisingly positive actually (to Casey's tweet anyway).
Most seemed to appreciate the gesture. But from the way Casey had phrased it though, I think a number of people thought he had fired him. I meant mostly Jungbluth and other BioWare/Anthem staff, I would figure the positive reach from Hudson. The responses to Jungluth's tweet were much more predictable. Yeah, not a whole lot are buying it, and it's basically a BBQ in that thread.
The other Devs certainly had more positive responses.
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Post by slimgrin727 on May 28, 2018 15:09:52 GMT
I guess there were more nasty comments than I thought, coming from some of the usual corners of the internet. Including some journos and devs. It's amazing, I think the worst Bain ever did is have a few social media spats, something the vast majority of people are guilty of. And here I'm seeing claims that he directed his 'followers' to attack people, he doxxed people, he was a sexist bigot. Jesus christ it's like this elaborate group fantasy people have concocted so they can justify their own rage at the world.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 15:32:05 GMT
Heh... suddenly the old Bioware forums don't look so bad, eh?... I agree, people remember the bust-ups, not the run-of-the-mill friendly conversation. Not so sure about BioWare's decision to make Twitter their communication platform of choice. Even here, there are barely 2 or 3 things to moderate daily.
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Post by fchopin on May 28, 2018 16:00:22 GMT
At least he apologized. Forced or not. As if anyone will believe the apology.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 28, 2018 16:15:41 GMT
Heh... suddenly the old Bioware forums don't look so bad, eh?... I agree, people remember the bust-ups, not the run-of-the-mill friendly conversation. Not so sure about BioWare's decision to make Twitter their communication platform of choice. Even here, there are barely 2 or 3 things to moderate daily. Slacker!
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 16:24:27 GMT
As if anyone will believe the apology. True. The thing about apologies is to put them out there as sincerely as you can, then behave in line with the apology so that your subsequent actions restore your credibility. An apology is the first step, not the last.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 16:52:28 GMT
At least he apologized. Forced or not. As if anyone will believe the apology. Doesn't matter really, he still did it and opened himself back up for criticism. Thats already better than most in my book.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 16:53:40 GMT
And reaction by other folks following them? I would presume mostly a sea of "fake apology" and "fuck BioWare" chants being the loudest. Are you seriously expecting meaningful, thoughtful discussion on a platform defined by the fact that it limits post length to around 200 characters, and by the amount of sheer outrage you can cram into it? Heh... suddenly the old Bioware forums don't look so bad, eh?... Well, at least on twitter it's bite-sized when compared to the multi-page essays we use to fuel our outrage .
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Post by midnight tea on May 28, 2018 17:09:38 GMT
At least he apologized. Forced or not. As if anyone will believe the apology. Well, it at least shuts (somewhat) folks who make strange claims that he or any employee that say something that manages to stir controversy is suddenly 'the face of the company' and thus is in full control of its message, politics or creative decisions, 'muahahahahaha'-style and all that...
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Post by Kedan on May 28, 2018 17:17:32 GMT
I’m not seeing anything wrong with Jungbluth’s original statement, and certainly nothing that requires an apology. Just because someone dies doesn’t mean we should forget or neglect to point out if they were a douche, especially if the general crowd is lining up to metaphorically fellate the corpse.
“Certainly, So-and-So was well regarded for such-and-such, but let’s not forget they also stole candy from babies” is not an inappropriate comment upon someone’s passing. If you’re going to memorialize the good, you should also be willing to acknowledge and discuss the bad.
That other guy needed to focus more on the facts and less on how projects he worked on were treated poorly. At least he admitted he had an axe to grind, I guess.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 17:23:47 GMT
Jungbluth’s original statement Any other time than the day of the subject's death would have been preferable. And his fart was drawn attention to by the other guy crapping on the dining table.
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Post by Kedan on May 28, 2018 17:36:08 GMT
Jungbluth’s original statement Any other time than the day of the subject's death would have been preferable. And his fart was drawn attention to by the other guy crapping on the dining table. Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth of the dead if it happens to be less than complimentary? You’re allowed an article on every major gaming site and who knows how many twitter accounts lauding him and offering thoughts and prayers within hours of the news going public, but 200 letters in the same time frame that generally reminds that the deceased didn’t necessarily piss rainbows and shit gold is somehow beyond the pale?
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 17:45:42 GMT
Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth of the dead if it happens to be less than complimentary? You’re allowed an article on every major gaming site and who knows how many twitter accounts lauding him and offering thoughts and prayers within hours of the news going public, but 200 letters in the same time frame that generally reminds that the deceased didn’t necessarily piss rainbows and shit gold is somehow beyond the pale? Under principles of free speech, you are right. But free speech doesn't stop people being considered an ass. And dissing people on the day of their death is just plain disrespectful. Add to that they are representing their company as well as themselves (however much they have a disclaimer) so in any event, not a wise move.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 17:55:45 GMT
Well, at least on twitter it's bite-sized when compared to the multi-page essays we use to fuel our outrage . Fair enough. Though at least here (the style, not necessarily here in particular) I think the form is more conducive for something beyond that as well. I was being a bit sarcastic. hence the .
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Post by Kedan on May 28, 2018 18:02:25 GMT
Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth of the dead if it happens to be less than complimentary? You’re allowed an article on every major gaming site and who knows how many twitter accounts lauding him and offering thoughts and prayers within hours of the news going public, but 200 letters in the same time frame that generally reminds that the deceased didn’t necessarily piss rainbows and shit gold is somehow beyond the pale? Under principles of free speech, you are right. But free speech doesn't stop people being considered an ass. And dissing people on the day of their death is just plain disrespectful. Add to that they are representing their company as well as themselves (however much they have a disclaimer) so in any event, not a wise move. If we were talking about walking up to the guy’s wife on the day of his death and telling her he was sleeping with your sister, I’d agree. Not really on moral grounds, but because she’s probably mentally and emotionally incapable of dealing with the news. But this was a relatively gentle reproach, on the poster’s personal account, amongst a host of positive-only post, so I’m not seeing either the ‘asshole’ or the ‘representing his company’ angle. If we follow your rules, then saying anything bad about anyone on the day of or shortly after their death is beyond the pale and how dare we.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 18:10:53 GMT
If we were talking about walking up to the guy’s wife on the day of his death and telling her he was sleeping with your sister, I’d agree. Not really on moral grounds, but because she’s probably mentally and emotionally incapable of dealing with the news. But this was a relatively gentle reproach, on the poster’s personal account, amongst a host of positive-only post, so I’m not seeing either the ‘asshole’ or the ‘representing his company’ angle. If David Crooks hadn't made his multi-part axe-swinging rant, I'm sure Mike Jungbluth's observation would have slid under the radar...
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Post by Kedan on May 28, 2018 18:12:53 GMT
If we were talking about walking up to the guy’s wife on the day of his death and telling her he was sleeping with your sister, I’d agree. Not really on moral grounds, but because she’s probably mentally and emotionally incapable of dealing with the news. But this was a relatively gentle reproach, on the poster’s personal account, amongst a host of positive-only post, so I’m not seeing either the ‘asshole’ or the ‘representing his company’ angle. If David Crooks hadn't made his multi-part axe-swinging rant, I'm sure Mike Jungbluth's observation would have slid under the radar... Yeah, we’ll, that’s on David for being a dick in his presentation. Mike’s got nothing to apologize for.
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