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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 18:41:25 GMT
Askagamedev comments: askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/174339071116/so-what-is-your-take-on-the-recent-controversyExcerpt: "The thing that stood out to me regarding any “controversy” is that every single “news” outlet reporting on this has put the developer’s employer and publisher front and center in the headline, even though these news outlets should know that it isn’t an official stance by any means. Gotta get them clicks somehow. People get into arguments on the internet. That, porn, and sharing cat pictures are the foundations of the internet as we know it."
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Post by slimgrin727 on May 28, 2018 18:43:52 GMT
Any other time than the day of the subject's death would have been preferable. And his fart was drawn attention to by the other guy crapping on the dining table. Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth of the dead if it happens to be less than complimentary? You’re allowed an article on every major gaming site and who knows how many twitter accounts lauding him and offering thoughts and prayers within hours of the news going public, but 200 letters in the same time frame that generally reminds that the deceased didn’t necessarily piss rainbows and shit gold is somehow beyond the pale? Lining up to insult his memory and worse yet, spread lies about his behavior is unacceptable. Personally I'd think about respecting the people mourning him than choosing the day of his death to pontificate on his grave about proper online etiquette.
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Post by Kedan on May 28, 2018 19:05:42 GMT
Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth of the dead if it happens to be less than complimentary? You’re allowed an article on every major gaming site and who knows how many twitter accounts lauding him and offering thoughts and prayers within hours of the news going public, but 200 letters in the same time frame that generally reminds that the deceased didn’t necessarily piss rainbows and shit gold is somehow beyond the pale? Lining up to insult his memory and worse yet, spread lies about his behavior is unacceptable. Personally I'd think about respecting the people mourning him than choosing the day of his death to pontificate on his grave about proper online etiquette. You'll have to point out the line to me. I've seen paeans to his career on gaming site after gaming site, versus, including those in this post, two that state or suggest otherwise, but I'll admit I haven't really been looking. And I suspect that the people mourning him probably have priorities that don't include "cruising the internet looking for random twitters about my loved one who died a few hours ago".
Frankly, for his fans, there's never going to be an 'appropriate time' to say something less the complementary about him. Not while he was alive, and not now that he's dead. Now there's just the convenient 'have some respect for the dead' excuse to dismiss any and all criticism.
Mike still has nothing to apologize for.
And, if I may be cynical for a moment, Casey Hudson wouldn't have posted shit about this if the guy didn't have 2.2 million YouTube followers. Even a fraction of that is an awful lot of Anthem sales BioWare can't afford to lose to a lynch mob over nothing.
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Post by midnight tea on May 28, 2018 19:34:21 GMT
"The thing that stood out to me regarding any “controversy” is that every single “news” outlet reporting on this has put the developer’s employer and publisher front and center in the headline, even though these news outlets should know that it isn’t an official stance by any means. Gotta get them clicks somehow. People get into arguments on the internet. That, porn, and sharing cat pictures are the foundations of the internet as we know it." Is it clickbait? Yes. However, with Bioware there's always something, doesn't matter if it's Manveer, making nice with Sarkeesian, etc. So sure, nobody really thinks that this is official company policy, but when it's always Bioware tied to these politics, that's what people see, justified or not. But that's just cherrypicking. You'll find people who are either a-holes or occasionally hold a controversial/stupid opinion or do outrageous things all over the place but in some cases those 'somethings' feel like they're mere excuses for an outrage rather than genuine concern. If it wasn't that, it would be something else, however obscure.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 20:14:38 GMT
Any other time than the day of the subject's death would have been preferable. And his fart was drawn attention to by the other guy crapping on the dining table. Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth Yeah. You raise the issue when they're alive and can defend themselves the same as a normal person (who isn't a coward) does. It's also harder to paint a false narrative this way. If someone isn't willing to say anything when they're alive, kindly STFU once they're dead, because the person(s) who look bad here isn't TB.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 20:34:56 GMT
Heh, I usually don't like Reddit but their response to David Crooks has been pretty much on the money imo:
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 20:45:11 GMT
Heh, I usually don't like Reddit but their response to David Crooks has been pretty much on the money imo: One thing here was gnawing at me before: TB's review of ME:A was actually relatively positive, which makes the whole axe-grinding a little strange. Yeah. And he didn't support Gamergate or any other divisive organisations. It seems as though Crooks was bitter because many, many years ago TB reviewed some games he worked on harshly. Obviously that makes TB a horrible person justifying much revelry by devs after his passing (according to Jungbluth) xD
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Post by Iakus on May 28, 2018 21:30:41 GMT
If he says it's his own words I'd take that at face value. Doesn't mean it wasn't checked/edited and signed-off. This is an object lesson in what a dangerous beast the internet can be. Most of us are protected by our hashtagged anonymity but devs don't have that grace. Some of us are also protected by having the common sense and class to not do something so tasteless and hateful in public to begin with.
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Post by Iakus on May 28, 2018 21:37:15 GMT
Oh? Is there a proscribed time frame where you aren’t allowed to speak the truth of the dead if it happens to be less than complimentary? You’re allowed an article on every major gaming site and who knows how many twitter accounts lauding him and offering thoughts and prayers within hours of the news going public, but 200 letters in the same time frame that generally reminds that the deceased didn’t necessarily piss rainbows and shit gold is somehow beyond the pale? Under principles of free speech, you are right. But free speech doesn't stop people being considered an ass. And dissing people on the day of their death is just plain disrespectful.Add to that they are representing their company as well as themselves (however much they have a disclaimer) so in any event, not a wise move. Not to mention a guy who died of cancer. That is NOT a fun way to go.
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Post by Iakus on May 28, 2018 21:49:22 GMT
Askagamedev comments: askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/174339071116/so-what-is-your-take-on-the-recent-controversyExcerpt: "The thing that stood out to me regarding any “controversy” is that every single “news” outlet reporting on this has put the developer’s employer and publisher front and center in the headline, even though these news outlets should know that it isn’t an official stance by any means. Gotta get them clicks somehow. People get into arguments on the internet. That, porn, and sharing cat pictures are the foundations of the internet as we know it."It's not about official stance, It's about culture. It's about how employees make you look. Getting your picture taken with Anita Sarkessian makes your company look a certain way. Taking a picture of yourself drinking from a coffee mug with "White Tears" written on it says something about the company you keep. Commenting on a youtube critic (favorably or not) reflects on the company. Especially if your profile tells the world where you work. Not long ago there was a story in the papers about a New York lawyer who went on a racist rant at a couple of Spanish speakers in a deli. People responded by sending a mariachi band and a taco truck TO HIS OFFICE! What you do reflects on the people around you. Friends, family, coworkers, the business you work for, or even beyond. And the Internet is forever.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 21:53:12 GMT
Heh, I usually don't like Reddit but their response to David Crooks has been pretty much on the money imo: One thing here was gnawing at me before: TB's review of ME:A was actually relatively positive, which makes the whole axe-grinding a little strange. Is that the only game he worked on? Also by positive...it was really middling/lukewarm in the way most of us were with it. Average that didn't deserve the hate kind of run-down.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 21:58:01 GMT
Also by positive...it was really middling/lukewarm in the way most of us were with it. Average that didn't deserve the hate kind of run-down. 7/10 is the new average, confirmed.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 22:05:31 GMT
But let's clear up what TB said about Andromeda. He said it was (paraphrasing a little):
compelling, engaging, good but flawed. A true 7/10 experience, not one of those "it's under 9/10 so it must be bad", but a true 7/10 game.
I'd classify that as a positive review.
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 22:09:41 GMT
Also by positive...it was really middling/lukewarm in the way most of us were with it. Average that didn't deserve the hate kind of run-down. 7/10 is the new average, confirmed. Moreso the standard for a while. Id prefer it to be a 5, if I had my way or any reach id make it so.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 22:21:32 GMT
For anyone interested this was TB's video on Need for Speed: Rivals, one of the reviews Crooks seems to be bearing a grudge over. Does this seem incredibly bad to people? Seems to me that TB is just sharing his frustration over a couple of things, and that's perfectly okay to do in my books.
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Post by malgus on May 28, 2018 23:23:06 GMT
Nick Sadler @zenderquaiHe didn't speak for his corporation, his companies, or his colleagues. And he certainly didn't speak for me. Bitterly disappointed that my contributions, my reputation, and those of my hard-working colleagues stand to be tarnished. Can I have the link to this tweet plz?
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Post by Hrungr on May 28, 2018 23:28:38 GMT
Nick Sadler @zenderquaiHe didn't speak for his corporation, his companies, or his colleagues. And he certainly didn't speak for me. Bitterly disappointed that my contributions, my reputation, and those of my hard-working colleagues stand to be tarnished. Can I have the link to this tweet plz? Hunh... it looks like he deleted it, then retweeted Casey's response.
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Post by malgus on May 28, 2018 23:30:30 GMT
Can I have the link to this tweet plz? Hunh... it looks like he deleted it, then retweeted Casey's response. Its a shame, it would be good if more people could see that many bioware employees condemn this kind of behavior.
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Post by Hrungr on May 28, 2018 23:34:28 GMT
Hunh... it looks like he deleted it, then retweeted Casey's response. Its a shame, it would be good if more people could see that many bioware employees condemn this kind of behavior. John Epler also touched on this (obliquely) last night... John Epler @eplerjc Compassion and empathy are two of the most important things to carry with you in game development. Never let them slip away.
The best games evoke emotion, and losing that insight means you lose the ability to do just that.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 23:34:58 GMT
Its a shame, it would be good if more people could see that many bioware employees condemn this kind of behavior. I remember seeing it, but I can understand the deletion. As the heat increased and Casey waded in, I can understand the maxim of STFU being followed. Words can only do so much, you just have to ride it out. (I wonder how this story would have been handled if we were still on old BSN, hmmm...)
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Post by malgus on May 28, 2018 23:47:18 GMT
Its a shame, it would be good if more people could see that many bioware employees condemn this kind of behavior. I remember seeing it, but I can understand the deletion. As the heat increased and Casey waded in, I can understand the maxim of STFU being followed. Words can only do so much, you just have to ride it out. (I wonder how this story would have been handled if we were still on old BSN, hmmm...) True For now I would say that casey hudson is already way better at handling the PR of his company than previous managements, aaryn Flyn never reacted to manveer heir racist behavior while Hudson publicly condemned the shitty tweets of david crooks. He also seemed to have taken notes of Jungbluth’s defending crooks, either jungbluth realise that defending crooks was a shitty idea OR hudson told him to apologise. At least measure have been taken.
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Post by Iakus on May 28, 2018 23:56:52 GMT
Its a shame, it would be good if more people could see that many bioware employees condemn this kind of behavior. I remember seeing it, but I can understand the deletion. As the heat increased and Casey waded in, I can understand the maxim of STFU being followed. Words can only do so much, you just have to ride it out. (I wonder how this story would have been handled if we were still on old BSN, hmmm...) This thread and anything like it would have been immediately locked, if not deleted.
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Post by ashaantha on May 29, 2018 1:28:20 GMT
In current days of social media tempers that flare instantly then fall off after a week or so (pretty normal for the average human, emotions ya know) is suddenly able to be seen by the entire world in like a minute, just by typing and hitting a 'post' button. The instant they put up what their job is and employer is the instant they should have known that account is going to be representing their job, not their personal life. If it's so hard to keep some sort of politeness online maybe they should have a separate personal-person only account, not connected to their job.
This whole thing is a mess, but I am glad Casey stepped in right away, nips it in the bud a bit so this whole thing will calm down faster than it would have if he had waited even just 2-3 more days.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 29, 2018 1:44:17 GMT
I don't believe in holding back critique just because someone is dead, and I think it's shitty in the extreme that we are now expected to represent our employers in every aspect of our lives. What I say or do on my personal social media shouldn't matter in a professional context.
But that is the world we live in, so people should know better.
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Post by river82 on May 29, 2018 2:00:45 GMT
and I think it's shitty in the extreme that we are now expected to represent our employers in every aspect of our lives. What I say or do on my personal social media shouldn't matter in a professional context. But that is the world we live in, so people should know better. Reminds me of an article on Cyberbuzz: You see Twitter disclaimers more and more these days. It’s a variation on the “the views are mine and not my employer”, or “opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone” theme.
Guess what?
Those opinions may be yours and they may not reflect the opinions of your employer, but they reflect you.
Which brand do you care more about?
Whenever I see that disclaimer I immediately think this person is saying “Yo, I’m an asshole. Please don’t tell my boss.”
If you need to put a warning ahead of your tweets that your behaviour may not be acceptable in the staff room, then you need to check your behaviour. Yes, personal time is personal time and we all can’t be expected to be on the clock 24/7; however, when it comes to social media, anything you tweet or facebook can and will be used against you.
Just ask former Rogers Sportsnet anchor Damian Goddard. Moments after Goddard tweeted support of an agent attacking Sean Avery for appearing in a gay marriage ad he was fired.
Goddard had the disclaimer on his account, but it didn’t matter. Everyone knew who he was, what he did and which company he represented.
I consistently quote Gillian Shaw from the Vancouver Sun and her social media advice: “if you don’t want it on the front page of the newspaper, don’t tweet it.”
Putting “these opinions are mine” doesn’t change the comments you make. Especially when your name and occupation are listed in your Twitter bio or easily found.
When you say something stupid they don’t include your disclaimer on the front page of the paper, they just say “Joe Schmo from Asshat Industries said …”
Think twice. Tweet once. Look after the most important brand in your career – your own.
cyberbuzz.com/the-views-are-mine-and-not-my-employer/
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