inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 6:40:34 GMT
When you have a country just north of you that shows that the Circle isn't needed, how is it blind? it's more like she and people like her just removed their head from their ass and accepted their is a viable alternative that wipes out the excuses? Didn't she also say something along the lines of, "We pull out the mages for wars, then stuff them back into a circle when they aren't useful anymore?" I haven't read Asunder/Masked Empire in a while, like over a year, so I may be mis quoting her. I really hate that Justinia died and got replaced with subpar options. Out of curiosity, what was it about Cassandra's approach with the mages and Templars that made her subpar? (Not my favorite Divine, but hers seemed the closest to a compromise compared to the other extremes) She doesn't tolerate alternative religions (scoffs at the Dalish religion). Adheres too much to an arbitrarily made ideal (breaks up with Inky if made Divine in spite of the fact that Andraste had multiple children. Cares too much about how people view her, meaning she can easily be manipulated). history of lying o make Seeker order look better. Intolerant of different people- who does she even like see warns you off half your party? Dorian, Sera, Cole should all have been kicked according to her. She gives off this honest loyal to a fault honorable persona but she is chalk full of flaws, and not the kind that makes one a good Divine.
|
|
inherit
376
0
Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
|
Post by opuspace on Jun 27, 2018 6:42:09 GMT
Out of curiosity, what was it about Cassandra's approach with the mages and Templars that made her subpar? (Not my favorite Divine, but hers seemed the closest to a compromise compared to the other extremes) She doesn't tolerate alternative religions (scoffs at the Dalish religion). Adheres too much to an arbitrarily made ideal (breaks up with Inky if made Divine in spite of the fact that Andraste had multiple children. Cares too much about how people view her, meaning she can easily be manipulated). history of lying o make Seeker order look better. Intolerant of different people- who does she even like see warns you off half your party? Dorian, Sera, Cole should all have been kicked according to her. She gives off this honest loyal to a fault honorable persona but she is chalk full of flaws, and not the kind that makes one a good Divine. Ah, I can agree with that. I guess I was wondering if Justinia had qualities that would have been any different
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 6:53:44 GMT
She doesn't tolerate alternative religions (scoffs at the Dalish religion). Adheres too much to an arbitrarily made ideal (breaks up with Inky if made Divine in spite of the fact that Andraste had multiple children. Cares too much about how people view her, meaning she can easily be manipulated). history of lying o make Seeker order look better. Intolerant of different people- who does she even like see warns you off half your party? Dorian, Sera, Cole should all have been kicked according to her. She gives off this honest loyal to a fault honorable persona but she is chalk full of flaws, and not the kind that makes one a good Divine. Ah, I can agree with that. I guess I was wondering if Justinia had qualities that would have been any different I feel like Justinia was pushing for a strong change and was not swayed by the masses to maintain an appearance. I actually value moderate two faced-ness here. She was not ashamed of the hard choices that had to be made. Like how to government doesn't care if you do embarrassing personal things so long as you can't be blackmailed into a betrayal. In this case, Cass already shows a history of shame based hiding which means it could be used against her. She's also possibly incapable of making the hard decisions like murder to manipulate events for the greater good of the masses. Justinia was never presented as having concerns about racial representation in the Chantry, but I also never got the feeling that she thought Elves were rabbits and Dwarves to be quaint Mechanics either. You wonder how she might have offered to help with the ekven rebellion in halamshiral if Celene had taken her up on the offer. That would have given us a better sense. But the masses we're far more sympathetic to tell mages than they were to her races, and Justinia was shrewd enough to push on issues that COULD be pushed. I just don't see Cass pushing anything. She spouts her ideals, which sounds reasonable, but she has no skills to push een ER supposed reasonable demands through. She is not shrewd, she is not politically savvy, and I don't think she is passionate about improving anything. And when I say passionate, I mean driven. She has a percieves maliase about the Chantry that she dislikes but that is hardly what wakes her up in the morning. She can barely handle the meetings. She is totally ineffective, even for te goals she cares about.
|
|
inherit
376
0
Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
|
Post by opuspace on Jun 27, 2018 7:00:50 GMT
That does make things a bit of a shame that we never got to meet Justinia in person at the Conclave before things exploded. Personally, to me, the racial discrimination was of higher concern but you have a point in that there was only so much that could be done in that position. Even the best that Leliana does is just tweaking the Chantry so that elves are recognized for contributions to Andrastianism, not for their own personal rights as a culture or a people. With the Mage/Templar conflict, I wish we could have seen how the negotiations went. Perhaps the story could have had bigger impact if we were starting off doing missions for Justinia to accomplish her goals only to be forced to step up after her death.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2018 7:34:38 GMT
I agree with her. But I wonder what it says that she was blown up by the most evil mage in the history of Thedas not too long after this was said. What does it say for the end of slavery that Abraham Lincoln was assasinated? What does it say for American Democracy that JFK and his brother was assasinated? Being murdered doesn't make you wrong. Abraham Lincoln wasn't murdered by a freedman. I'm pretty sure we still don't understand why JFK was killed, and apparently there's some question about why Robert was killed, but I don't think we have any reason to believe that American Democracy killed them. If they had been killed because of their commitment to these causes (or in Lincoln's case, if he'd been killed by the very group that he'd been trying to help rather than an enemy of that group) then I think their commitment to those causes would be looked at quite differently. Being murdered doesn't make you wrong, but being murdered by a member of the group you were trying to help is cause for others to wonder if you were wise to help that group.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2018 7:35:44 GMT
You wonder how she might have offered to help with the ekven rebellion in halamshiral if Celene had taken her up on the offer. That would have given us a better sense. But the masses we're far more sympathetic to tell mages than they were to her races, and Justinia was shrewd enough to push on issues that COULD be pushed.
The whole business with the elven rebellion is something of a black mark against Justinia for me. As I understood the narrative in Masked Empire, Justinia knew that Gaspard was using the idea of leniency with the elves against Celene. Then instead of backing Celene and making some sort of declaration about how justice should apply to all or at least checking if Celene is handing the situation in Halamshiral (which in fact she was) Justinia does two things:
She ignores the blatant and insulting use of Andraste in an obviously political play sponsored by one of Gaspard's allies, which focuses on her treatment of the elves. Turning a blind eye in this way is almost equivalent to giving her endorsement to Gaspard's claim.
She basically orders Celene to deal with the elves before she will do anything about the mages. The rebellion was caused by an injustice and the elves reacting to that injustice after literally centuries of enduring such unequal treatment. If Justinia genuinely thinks the mages deserve better, despite the rebellion in Kirkwall and the growing dissent across Thedas, why not the elves as well?
How else did Justinia think Celene was going to act in the face of these two facts? She knew she would march on Halamshiral and it would result in a massacre of the elves. It is clear this will happen because Leliana is upset and embarrassed by having to deliver such a message because she is the one with genuine elven sympathies and would know why the rebellion occurred. If anything Justinia was helping Gaspard by forcing Celene's hand in this way because his whole aim was to get Celene out of her powerbase in Val Royeaux and into the south where his allies held sway.
As for mages being a cause she thought she had a better chance of winning, I think you under estimate the amount of prejudice against mages in the majority of ordinary people. Asunder shows this when Rhys' party is on the road. If Anora is Queen a codex says she had to lay her reputation on the line to get her people to agree to sheltering the mages and then that spectacularly backfired on her. I doubt ordinary people would think that elves were a greater threat to them than mages.
So I would agree that Justinia was not ashamed of the hard choices that had to be made but on the whole the vast majority of choices she made did conform with current Chantry and secular thinking with regard to mages and elves. Remember Justinia only wanted to discover if it was possible to cut off a mage's connection with the Fade without destroying their emotions as well. The research she sponsored confirmed that it was impossible to do one without the other. Then she condemned the mage who had done her orders to be made tranquil again.
Cassandra knew that Justinia was essentially a conservative who was willing to make limited compromises but not wholesale changes, which is why she says that Leliana is wrong in thinking that she is continuing her legacy by making the sweeping changes that she does. Proof of this can be seen in the plan to create an Inquisition simultaneously with conducting the Conclave. Essentially her plan was to bring together the leaders and then give them no option but to accept her compromise solution. Both sides were astute enough to realise who they were dealing with, which is why I assume neither leader chose to attend but sent a deputy instead.
I would agree though that Cassandra is not politically astute enough for the role. Blood soaked Leliana is probably closest to what the majority of Divine's have been, in their thoughts if not in their actual deeds. Vivienne is probably the best equipped to deal with the politics but the sticking point is still the fact she is a mage and so as radical a choice as Leliana for the degree to which it flies in the face of previous Chantry teaching.
|
|
lilyonce
N3
The whole universe is...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
Posts: 277 Likes: 125
inherit
1185
0
Jan 11, 2020 17:30:36 GMT
125
lilyonce
The whole universe is...
277
Aug 24, 2016 23:34:41 GMT
August 2016
lilyonce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
|
Post by lilyonce on Jun 27, 2018 12:31:56 GMT
When you have a country just north of you that shows that the Circle isn't needed You mean that shows exactly why it's needed and why it was created even. I support reforms though.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2018 12:58:47 GMT
Being murdered doesn't make you wrong, but being murdered by a member of the group you were trying to help is cause for others to wonder if you were wise to help that group. Dude.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Jun 27, 2018 16:05:17 GMT
When you have a country just north of you that shows that the Circle isn't needed You mean that shows exactly why it's needed and why it was created even. I support reforms though. You don't support any reforms, if you support the prison circles because of the "weaklings", the Harrowing and the Tranquility, your "reforms" are nothing.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2018 22:41:21 GMT
Being murdered doesn't make you wrong, but being murdered by a member of the group you were trying to help is cause for others to wonder if you were wise to help that group. Dude. If a guy with Pessimist in his name is disturbed by what I said, maybe I'm being a bit of a dick. Let's try again. Divine Justinia was the single most powerful non-mage advocate for treating mages like you'd treat anyone else. And she was murdered by one of the central villains in the Chantry's charter myth for why mages aren't treated like everyone else. If nothing else, that's a bit ironic. None of Phoray's counterexamples were.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 22:44:17 GMT
When you have a country just north of you that shows that the Circle isn't needed You mean that shows exactly why it's needed and why it was created even. I support reforms though. .... Not even close? Mage Leadership is not inherently bad. Tevinter could be run by non mages and they would still be a bad country for having slavery.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Jun 27, 2018 22:48:17 GMT
If a guy with Pessimist in his name is disturbed by what I said, maybe I'm being a bit of a dick. Let's try again. Divine Justinia was the single most powerful non-mage advocate for treating mages like you'd treat anyone else. And she was murdered by one of the central villains in the Chantry's charter myth for why mages aren't treated like everyone else. If nothing else, that's a bit ironic. None of Phoray's counterexamples were. Still bad answer. It does not justify that.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 22:52:54 GMT
Divine Justinia was the single most powerful non-mage advocate for treating mages like you'd treat anyone else. And she was murdered by one of the central villains in the Chantry's charter myth for why mages aren't treated like everyone else Okay, I'm seeing what you're saying. BUT, I suppose I just don't see Cory as a human anymore. I see him as a Darkspawn. I don't point at Darkspawn Emmisaries as reasons why regular mages should be locked up in Circles. Cory is too extreme an example to be relevant in this context. It'd be like saying one of our leaders tells us we should treat Superman normally, because he was raised human and just happens to have alien based super powers. And then some survivor of his home planet comes and murders a bunch of people. Superman and this other guy of his race are very different people with different upbringings.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 22:55:03 GMT
Leliana does is just tweaking the Chantry so that elves are recognized for contributions to Andrastianism, not for their own personal rights as a culture or a people. I mean, Andrastians don't consider the Dalish to be elves they should even begin to care about. It's really only the City Elves that have converted they're offering a hand to. Perhaps the story could have had bigger impact if we were starting off doing missions for Justinia to accomplish her goals only to be forced to step up after her death. That would have been great. All those people dying would have actually made you feel something.
|
|
TheEmptyRoad
N2
Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3mptyRoad
PSN: TheEmptyRoad
Posts: 168 Likes: 300
inherit
2743
0
Apr 16, 2024 11:17:34 GMT
300
TheEmptyRoad
Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
168
January 2017
theemptyroad
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The3mptyRoad
TheEmptyRoad
|
Post by TheEmptyRoad on Jun 27, 2018 22:57:48 GMT
My Mage Adaar and Warrior Adaar both had the same thought process: *Go to Redcliffe because of invite from Fiona, get to Redcliffe and everything is weird, 'vints are shady af and I'm now not dealing with Fiona but some creepy 'vint. Ah heeeeellllll nah, Imma go bring the Templars to heel and come back with reinforcements.*
*Disband the Templars and bring them under my direct command, the Inquisition of old reunited(ish)*
*Take a brief break after using a combo of my magicky mark powers and my new Templar retainers to weaken and then close the Breach*
*Think to myself "Ah, OK, time to go sort out that wierd shit in Redcliffe*
*Sounds of an approaching army*
"Well, shit"
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 22:58:18 GMT
As for mages being a cause she thought she had a better chance of winning, I think you under estimate the amount of prejudice against mages in the majority of ordinary people. Maybe Sympathetic wasn't the most accurate word. "on their radar as a social issue that some educated people may think about" especially considering that mages are some of the most educated in Thedas themselves may be closer to what I was aiming for. AS it stands, few uneducated people may think mage problems should be seen to, but zero uneducated people think elves and their issues should be looked at.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2018 23:16:14 GMT
Divine Justinia was the single most powerful non-mage advocate for treating mages like you'd treat anyone else. And she was murdered by one of the central villains in the Chantry's charter myth for why mages aren't treated like everyone else Okay, I'm seeing what you're saying. BUT, I suppose I just don't see Cory as a human anymore. I see him as a Darkspawn. I don't point at Darkspawn Emmisaries as reasons why regular mages should be locked up in Circles. Cory is too extreme an example to be relevant in this context. I'm not so sure. Don't forget that the reason he is a darkspawn now is because he performed a magical ritual that made him one. It's not one just any mage can do, but it's one that only a mage has even a tiny fraction of a chance of doing. Not only that, but the story of that ritual, and the story of what the Chantry believes to have resulted from it, is one of the major things the Chantry points to to justify their policies. The fact that she's killed by a mage is already kind of ironic, but the fact that she's being killed by a villainous mage from the story that's used to bludgeon the mages she's trying to help? That's the real source of the irony. Phrased that way, it kind of reads like something out of a heavy-handed anti-mage-freedom morality tale. But that is pretty much exactly what happens to her. Well, if someone with the same powers Superman has is able to murder a whole bunch of people with them, a healthy dose of caution around Superman is warranted. As I understand it even the comics confront this issue from time to time. I think once even Batman noted that Superman's basically a god, and that their whole world might be in trouble if he really figures that out.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Jun 27, 2018 23:20:57 GMT
I think once even Batman noted that Superman's basically a god, and that their whole world might be in trouble if he really figures that out. Superman appears to age similarly to humans, so he'd just die of old age eventually even if he did figure it out.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2018 23:23:49 GMT
I think once even Batman noted that Superman's basically a god, and that their whole world might be in trouble if he really figures that out. Superman appears to age similarly to humans, so he'd just die of old age eventually even if he did figure it out. Eventually. But even if he ages as quickly as humankind does, rather than his aging process slowing down as he gets older the way it seems to in the DCAU, those years would feel pretty long to everyone who lived through them.
|
|
MarilynRobert
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 986 Likes: 2,148
inherit
33
0
Aug 27, 2016 23:38:20 GMT
2,148
MarilynRobert
986
August 2016
robmar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by MarilynRobert on Jun 28, 2018 0:54:27 GMT
Reading over this thread again, I feel my Inquisitors' anger toward Vivienne's viewpoint on the Circle and how mages should be treated. There she is as the mistress of a wealthy man, living in palaces and summer homes and thinking it's just fine for other mages to be imprisoned.
|
|
jaerick243
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 209 Likes: 252
inherit
7113
0
May 18, 2019 15:20:48 GMT
252
jaerick243
209
April 2017
jaerick243
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by jaerick243 on Jun 28, 2018 1:37:09 GMT
I will say this, here is why my Trevelyan (rogue) is going templars: - The note from Felix is too convenient in her mind, so she sees it has to be a trap, so no way.
- Personal, but she is kind of the black sheep of House Tevelyan, so she feels that going with the Templars will get her back in their good graces after "the incident".
|
|
Quickpaw
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
Posts: 452 Likes: 564
inherit
1429
0
564
Quickpaw
452
Sept 4, 2016 18:38:24 GMT
September 2016
quickpaw
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Tuldabar
Shadow Quickpaw
|
Post by Quickpaw on Jun 28, 2018 6:05:55 GMT
Keldar Lavellan is thinking a few things. Of the two factions, which actually would need the Inquisition more, and thus would be more open to negotiations? Mages. Of the two factions, one has almost literally spat in his face, the other has offered a chance to speak. Of the two factions-at this point in their conflict-has degenerated to the point where one just wants to live, the other wants TO KILL THEM. Of the two factions, one has turtled up and the other is OH MY CREATORS TIME AND SPACE IS RIPPING ITSELF APART WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS LIKE NOW.
So yeah. Mages it is.
|
|
inherit
4406
0
Apr 21, 2024 17:05:44 GMT
602
duskwanderer
Awesome
1,011
Mar 12, 2017 22:45:38 GMT
March 2017
duskwanderer
|
Post by duskwanderer on Jun 29, 2018 1:12:59 GMT
How do you know there wasn't a vote on it? A lot of the mages you talk to in Redcliffe support the idea. You also have to pick your leaders. These people went into things eyes wide open. Forgive me if I think they might deserve their own fate. Yes, I'm sure they knew, years (decades?) earlier, that Fiona would sell them down the river. I bet that was in her campaign speech. There are a few options, none of which are good: 1.) They trusted Fiona to make the choice - In which case, they deserve what they got. 2.) They agreed with Fiona - Ditto 3.) They didn't agree, but stuck around anyway - They had the option to leave.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,783
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 29, 2018 8:49:18 GMT
There are a few options, none of which are good: 1.) They trusted Fiona to make the choice - In which case, they deserve what they got. 2.) They agreed with Fiona - Ditto 3.) They didn't agree, but stuck around anyway - They had the option to leave. All these are essentially true, however: 1) Fiona does seem to have consulted with the others before making the decision. She admits she hadn't realised how much their numbers had been infiltrated by the Venatori, who rigged the vote. 2) Same comment - Those who voted for Alexius among the true rebels may have been in the minority but the Venatori agents boosted the numbers in favour, making it seem like it was a majority decision. 3) Until the Herald turns up at Redcliffe they may have been nervous about leaving the relative safety of the Castle and village, having nowhere they could go easily. Even without the threat of a Templar army bearing down on them, they would have been aware of how dangerous the countryside around Redcliffe had become from rogue elements on both sides. I am surprised that those individuals who were unhappy with their situation and actually approached the Herald to say so, didn't then ask to leave with them, as the tranquil did. However, they probably still felt it would be dangerous to do so because of the likely targeting by Templars and preferred to wait until they could leave as a group. I'd also mention that the mage accompanying Fiona to our meeting had a very spaced out, vacant look. I'd love to know if that was deliberate on the part of the writing team/programmers or simply an error in animation. When I saw that mage and then Fiona rubbing her head as though her mind had been fogged and she ought to remember our meeting, my initial reaction was to think they had been the subject of blood magic mind manipulation, which I've always maintained would have been a much more plausible explanation for her change of heart, particularly considering who we were dealing with. Instead I go to the Chantry and am told "it's time magic go with it", which then does put the decision firmly back as the free willed responsibility of those that made it. I still feel that makes Fiona culpable and no longer worthy of leadership. It just seemed she capitulated too easily bearing in mind the reason the mages were fighting in the first place. If they were losing the war, why drag the entire rebel army across the length of Thedas, from Andoral's Reach in north-western Orlais, near the Tevinter boarder, to Ferelden if you are going to ask for political asylum with Tevinter anyway? Why accept the sanctuary offered by the monarch of Ferelden with the backing of their people and then sell them out to an enemy power? If they had been camping out in the wilds it was more understandable but they had been given the use of one of the most defensible castles in all Ferelden. And if she did fear the Templar army, then why not insist they left for Tevinter at once because if they couldn't defend themselves adequately in the castle before he made his offer, what changed? This is why I dislike the Hushed Whispers plot. I think the time magic explanation is ridiculous but even if I "go with it", I cannot remove Fiona as leader of the mages even if I conscript them into the Inquisition. Whilst that at least puts me in ultimate control, the downside is that I am seen as a Circle sympathiser and accused of imprisoning them. Dorian even calls me stupid. Also it increases the chances of getting Vivienne as Divine. My only consolation is that ultimately I am proven right that this is the best path as the conscripted mages ultimately form the Bright Hand, which turns out to be the best outcome at the end of Trespasser whoever ultimately becomes Divine. However, that requires meta knowledge, although it does seem that often what initially is presented to you as the less desirable choice actually works out to be the one you should take.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5909
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:09:32 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:09:32 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 10:51:39 GMT
My Mage Inquistor Lavellan had no obligation to manage other mages affairs and decided against helping them because he felt no true loyalty to them, beyond being a fellow apostate and perhaps being hunted by the Templars in his lifetime. But he's never been under the heed of a templar, and even knows how to use anti-magic himself just for safety, in the case anything happened with the Third and the Keeper.... He was truly the folly of my Mage Hawke (I think they venously disagreed with one another on just about everything actually). He choice the Templars out of curiosity more out a sense of malice or anything. My Mage Trevelyan was a male Vivienne so he choice the Templars because of loyalty to the chantry. My Female Mage Trevelyan choice the mages because she was full of bubby compassion and not to mention, she felt that the mages were more dangerous left alone than anything though. yea just revisting this thread because lmao why not? I think I've posted in it before but whom cares?
|
|