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Post by lilyenachaos on Jun 10, 2018 20:01:28 GMT
I haven't noticed a ton of 'toxic' on this site, but negative? There is negative everywhere. Negative opinions on things don't equal toxicity though. I guess it's all in the way things are worded.
It's a Bioware fan site, and Anthem is not really a game aimed at their 'typical' fan, so of course there is going to be whining. Especially since the perception (or reality) is that the games that their fans DO want have been iced/shelved/set aside for it.
Anthem looks like a neat game, if you like the whole co-op thing. Personally I'll stick to my single player games and the 2 MMO's I still play.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 10, 2018 20:07:24 GMT
I don’t see it entirely as a toxic community. Anthem isn’t the first time Bioware has taken a new direction, ME and DA are proof that as they’re nothing like baldurs gate and such. The issue is change of guard to me, over time fans get attached to what is made that once a new direction is being pushed, (and typically this happens after so much of theold staff is gone and the newer guys want to do do their own thing) people get worried, angered, disappointmented as they don’t want it and what they had before may be no more. I myself have no issue with Anthem being different, I’d rather a new IP over turning mass effect into something else entirely which so many studios happen to do, better to simply start over rather than turn something with an already established identity, into something it isn’t. I’d partly put it as some don’t want change so they’ll be offput when it comes.
Still don’t see any justification for dumping the old forums, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Bioware isn’t mainstream, they have it easy when it comes to fan backlash as they’re dealing with far less people. To me they should’ve just toughen up, it comes with the job.
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Post by femshep on Jun 10, 2018 20:12:01 GMT
If someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. You can't force someone to like something. I love Bioware, but at the same time I think they like every other company open themselves up to constructive criticism. Now sometimes I don't understand or get all of the hatred for certain games, but at the end of the day disliking something and voicing an opinion doesn't equal being toxic.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 10, 2018 20:15:52 GMT
In my opinion the problem is that people are all too willing to emphasize what they dislike about something at the expense of all that they like.
Also, Anthem may not be what BioWare is known for but if it's a good game overall then why does that deserve negative criticism?
Criticizing something for what it is NOT can get annoying, and as a dev myself I can see how that can be seen as presumptuous and arrogant.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 10, 2018 20:25:15 GMT
If you have to pre order it's not a demo is it? You're paying for a preview. You asked if there was a demo. There's a demo. Pre-Ordering may give you a badge or shiny vs others, it's still a demo.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 10, 2018 20:27:23 GMT
A fandom as assholes in it? Unheard of.🙄 Lol. Just like opinions On topic - my interest has grown, not dissipated. There are aspects to this game I am curious about, and it may be right up my alley, so I have been doubtful and cautiously optimistic at the same time. Nothing should be disheartening to someone who is hard at work. I liken it to a game of <insert your favorite sport here>. Sometimes the fans talk trash about you, still you have a job to do and your goal is to win the championship. If you win the championship, the fans will love you, so don't ever deviate from the goal. Let that "fan hate" motivate. Edit: I grew up in an era without participation awards, and I have been picked last. My advice may no longer be relevant in this generation
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 20:45:42 GMT
If you have to pre order it's not a demo is it? You're paying for a preview. You asked if there was a demo. There's a demo. Pre-Ordering may give you a badge or shiny vs others, it's still a demo. You don't get it do you? If I have to pre order to play a demo... IT IS NOT A DEMO A demo is something you can play to see if you like a game and then maybe buy the full game.
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Post by river82 on Jun 10, 2018 21:02:14 GMT
I was sharing a conversation with a dev [who does not work for BioWare] about how BSN (to them) appeared to be a forum full of, well let's say that they were reminded of the AskAGameDev article about online forums, in which forum members are described as often being 'trolls and zealots'. This remark was caused by their disappointment in what they perceived was a strongly negative reaction to Anthem on this forum.
Do you feel that's true? No, RPGCodex is a forum full of zealots, BSN is a forum full of disappointed fans. If devs can't accept criticism then they're in the wrong industry. Learning how to accept criticism gracefully without chucking a tantrum is pretty much the first thing people in the creative industry learns. Many devs don't go through that background though, coming from an engineering background they skip that essential training step.
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Post by river82 on Jun 10, 2018 21:16:50 GMT
I would say that Bioware's games and reputation has gone downhill ever since they retreated from the public in general and shut themselves off in their own little echo chamber. Unfortunately the only game they've released since they've done that is Andromeda so the sample size is tiny, but they seemed to display a certain naivity that Andromeda would be received generally well by the public (reportedly based off opinions by game journalists, good work fellas). That tends to be what happens when you stay in an echo chamber, criticism takes you by surprise. It will be interesting to see whether Anthem supports or blows my hypothesis out of the water.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 10, 2018 21:19:17 GMT
You don't get it do you? If I have to pre order to play a demo... IT IS NOT A DEMO A demo is something you can play to see if you like a game and then maybe buy the full game. I do get it. I have every expectation that the demo will be open to non-preorderers. The existence of the VIP pass was simply confirmation that the demos are happening, which you were doubting.
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Post by river82 on Jun 10, 2018 21:22:56 GMT
You don't get it do you? If I have to pre order to play a demo... IT IS NOT A DEMO A demo is something you can play to see if you like a game and then maybe buy the full game. I do get it. I have every expectation that the demo will be open to non-preorderers. The existence of the VIP pass was simply confirmation that the demos are happening, which you were doubting. It's probably a case of pre-order customers get the demo early. The cynical man in me says it's to give Bioware a chance to patch any problems before the rest of the public sees it
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 21:27:16 GMT
You don't get it do you? If I have to pre order to play a demo... IT IS NOT A DEMO A demo is something you can play to see if you like a game and then maybe buy the full game. I do get it. I have every expectation that the demo will be open to non-preorderers. The existence of the VIP pass was simply confirmation that the demos are happening, which you were doubting. Ah that makes more sense. Thanks you.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 10, 2018 21:33:42 GMT
Ah that makes more sense. Thanks you. It's not helped that EA is including a preorder 'VIP Access' to an unannounced Demo. Yes, a bit confusing. Something to do with 'marketing' I suspect.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 21:39:18 GMT
Ah that makes more sense. Thanks you. It's not helped that EA is including a preorder 'VIP Access' to an unannounced Demo. Yes, a bit confusing. Something to do with 'marketing' I suspect. "Ah yes 'marketing' we've dismissed that claim."
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 10, 2018 21:41:30 GMT
Eh...
I am pretty much done with gaming culture at large at this point as it is because of the degrees of "toxicity" it can bring. I've also been to the other side enough where it becomes so frustrating at times that you lose the energy to argue it anymore.
It's bad enough that I feel the community by and large is coddled as it is, i'd rather developers and publishers just make what they want, damn naysayers. There is too much grabs for attention as it is by most dev teams because they want to bask in good graces all the time, and the unfiltered attacks that do occur just compound that.
Innovation is daring to do something new as a company. Be it mandated or choice, that is how the industry grows and can become better. We, as the fanbase, should try to follow that example in our own way, instead of embracing the nerd-outrage that feeds the industry as a whole.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 10, 2018 22:12:58 GMT
Anthem looks absolutly uninspired to me. Quite frankly if it wasn't Bioware, I wouldn't even care to waste my time giving my opinion, and ignore the whole thing.
I can understand complain about harassment, I can understand being annoyed when called "lazy" ... But at some point you have to grow a thicker skin. Bioware needs to get over the ME3/DA2 trauma. Also I suggest a better PR than the problem is the fans. It's been going on for years now, perhaps the fans aren't the whole issue here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 22:15:14 GMT
We're better than most, yes, but if I was an Anthem dev reading this forum I'd be crying into my coffee today. Just sayin. It is definitely weighted towards the 'this is going to fucking shit I TOLD YOU SO' brigade.
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Fly In The Lotion
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Post by Fly In The Lotion on Jun 10, 2018 23:12:07 GMT
I really don't care about the toxicity - I like what I've seen so far!
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Post by river82 on Jun 10, 2018 23:14:46 GMT
Innovation is daring to do something new as a company. Be it mandated or choice, that is how the industry grows and can become better. We, as the fanbase, should try to follow that example in our own way, instead of embracing the nerd-outrage that feeds the industry as a whole. Innovation is doing something new within the industry as a whole, it is not doing something new as a company. You are not innovating if you clone another company's games even if you've never done that sort of game before. Bioware innovated with BG, they are not innovating with Anthem.
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Post by fchopin on Jun 10, 2018 23:34:28 GMT
If you have to pre order it's not a demo is it? You're paying for a preview. You asked if there was a demo. There's a demo. Pre-Ordering may give you a badge or shiny vs others, it's still a demo. Sorry but for me that is not a demo, if i can not play a demo without pre ordering then there is no demo.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 23:40:15 GMT
People are assholes. The anonimity that da Interwebz brings just reveal our worse nature. Specially in these strange times, that a lot of us don't spend our energies hunting and gathering food, or breaking our backs working /warring in the name of some deity/pharaoh/dictator/dinasty. What we do with all this free time that we gained? Nag about games that don't meet our deluded expectations.
It's an ego problem, mixed with too much free time.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 10, 2018 23:44:36 GMT
Sorry but for me that is not a demo, if i can not play a demo without pre ordering then there is no demo. It is my understanding that you can play the demo without preordering.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 11, 2018 0:05:14 GMT
I was sharing a conversation with a dev [who does not work for BioWare] about how BSN (to them) appeared to be a forum full of, well let's say that they were reminded of the AskAGameDev article about online forums, in which forum members are described as often being 'trolls and zealots'. This remark was caused by their disappointment in what they perceived was a strongly negative reaction to Anthem on this forum.
Do you feel that's true? I'm seeing both positive and negative reactions (and a fair amount of 'don't knows') What relationship does and should a 'fan' gaming community have with its respective game studio? What duty does a fan forum have to screen out any negative opinion (if any)? 'Fans' and devs are welcome to share their perspectives on this discussion as they like. * please note * I'm not referencing the individual I chatted with because they are entitled to their view, it's the principle we're discussing (unless they wish to pop in). Let's be responsible, people.
It depends.
And, it's based on those teasers / marketing corp speak that intentionally is designed to reveal nothing but promises everything to the reader/ listener.
Thus, coming from a RPG fan pov, the "you can play solo & you have choices & you can effect the world" is mana. But then, the real meaning comes forward and the plush promises of corp speak turn out to be very skinny with caveats on top of that.
Any wonder these fans react negatively? Bio is trying hard or is corp speaking too hard to placate everyone. That is a recipe for failure.
In this case, I found the EA Play Press conference to be lackluster. No hook to reel me in. Command & Conquer is a farce (fan of the series) and EA spent what 7-8 minutes on gameplay? EA, here, massacred the series, (how I feel). The rest I'm uninterested and EA spent 7-8 mins on actual Anthem gameplay which showed combat and nothing else of interest. The combat itself felt a bit hm... hollow?
My reaction is my reaction to expectations setup by Bio by their deliberate marketing approach.
Now, I'm sure button smashers and MP purists/fans creamed their pants ... I'm not one of them.
And, so, my comments reflect my disappointment with what was presented. Casey's further clarifications justifies my view that Anthem, as is, and with the $80 pre-order crapola is just not worth it for me. A $30 game perhaps.... but no freaking monthly fee..
Interestingly enough, there seems to be a general consensus around the web that expectations were not met.And why should fans / mods in forums screen out negative views? Surely more harm than good is done?
I believe EA+ Bio used the wrong marketing approach to explain Anthem from the very beginning.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 0:09:51 GMT
Innovation is daring to do something new as a company. Be it mandated or choice, that is how the industry grows and can become better. We, as the fanbase, should try to follow that example in our own way, instead of embracing the nerd-outrage that feeds the industry as a whole. Innovation is doing something new within the industry as a whole, it is not doing something new as a company. You are not innovating if you clone another company's games even if you've never done that sort of game before. Bioware innovated with BG, they are not innovating with Anthem. How so though? You have no proof that can say as such on such a statement. I can say the same thing about any game I want really. Cyberpunk trailer today? I see no innovation, looks like a low rent Deus Ex clone. Poor CD Projekt Red failing to innovate again... See how easy it is to make something declarative. Truth is we have no way of judging otherwise because we have not played anything yet in our hands. Going by looks or comparisons or jargon is simply not enough to make something definitively true. I apologize for being very curt right now, but wasting time with empty declaratives is part of the damn problem, and you are wasting time in even arguing that. ETA: If were going to curb bad habits, we need to start by realizing when we aren't helping a situation. The clickbait stuff I would point to as being a major problem that needs to be removed. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Post by fchopin on Jun 11, 2018 0:19:50 GMT
Sorry but for me that is not a demo, if i can not play a demo without pre ordering then there is no demo. It is my understanding that you can play the demo without preordering. If we can then that is good and will try it even if the game is not for me.
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