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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 0:22:18 GMT
I was sharing a conversation with a dev [who does not work for BioWare] about how BSN (to them) appeared to be a forum full of, well let's say that they were reminded of the AskAGameDev article about online forums, in which forum members are described as often being 'trolls and zealots'. This remark was caused by their disappointment in what they perceived was a strongly negative reaction to Anthem on this forum.
Do you feel that's true? I'm seeing both positive and negative reactions (and a fair amount of 'don't knows') What relationship does and should a 'fan' gaming community have with its respective game studio? What duty does a fan forum have to screen out any negative opinion (if any)? 'Fans' and devs are welcome to share their perspectives on this discussion as they like. * please note * I'm not referencing the individual I chatted with because they are entitled to their view, it's the principle we're discussing (unless they wish to pop in). Let's be responsible, people.
It depends.
And, it's based on those teasers / marketing corp speak that intentionally is designed to reveal nothing but promises everything to the reader/ listener.
Thus, coming from a RPG fan pov, the "you can play solo & you have choices & you can effect the world" is mana. But then, the real meaning comes forward and the plush promises of corp speak turn out to be very skinny with caveats on top of that.
Any wonder these fans react negatively? Bio is trying hard or is corp speaking too hard to placate everyone. That is a recipe for failure.
In this case, I found the EA Play Press conference to be lackluster. No hook to reel me in. Command & Conquer is a farce (fan of the series) and EA spent what 7-8 minutes on gameplay? EA, here, massacred the series, (how I feel). The rest I'm uninterested and EA spent 7-8 mins on actual Anthem gameplay which showed combat and nothing else of interest. The combat itself felt a bit hm... hollow?
My reaction is my reaction to expectations setup by Bio by their deliberate marketing approach.
Now, I'm sure button smashers and MP purists/fans creamed their pants ... I'm not one of them.
And, so, my comments reflect my disappointment with what was presented. Casey's further clarifications justifies my view that Anthem, as is, and with the $80 pre-order crapola is just not worth it for me. A $30 game perhaps.... but no freaking monthly fee..
Interestingly enough, there seems to be a general consensus around the web that expectations were not met.And why should fans / mods in forums screen out negative views? Surely more harm than good is done?
I believe EA+ Bio used the wrong marketing approach to explain Anthem from the very beginning.
When it is revealed Bioware named the project "Dylan", it's to be expected an intense degree of scrutiny, and big expectations. There'a also this: many people see Anthem as the cause of MEA's mediocrity, even if it is not true.
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Post by isaidlunch on Jun 11, 2018 0:54:10 GMT
Bioware fosters this type of environment with the way they treat their fans. There's nothing wrong with pursuing a different type of audience, but doing it right after deleting your forums and murdering Mass Effect is a really bad look. You know something is wrong with your PR strategy when your own fans want you to go bankrupt.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jun 11, 2018 1:06:41 GMT
Bioware killed the bsn because it was toxic
What does that tell you??
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 1:18:20 GMT
Innovation is doing something new within the industry as a whole, it is not doing something new as a company. You are not innovating if you clone another company's games even if you've never done that sort of game before. Bioware innovated with BG, they are not innovating with Anthem. How so though? You have no proof that can say as such on such a statement. I can say the same thing about any game I want really. Cyberpunk trailer today? I see no innovation, looks like a low rent Deus Ex clone. Poor CD Projekt Red failing to innovate again... See how easy it is to make something declarative. Truth is we have no way of judging otherwise because we have not played anything yet in our hands. Going by looks or comparisons or jargon is simply not enough to make something definitively true. I apologize for being very curt right now, but wasting time with empty declaratives is part of the damn problem, and you are wasting time in even arguing that. ETA: If were going to curb bad habits, we need to start by realizing when we aren't helping a situation. The clickbait stuff I would point to as being a major problem that needs to be removed. That is just the tip of the iceberg. You demand proof that Anthem is not innovative yet provide none that it is. Worse, you manipulate the definition of the word "innovative" to try and throw Bioware a bone. Bioware aren't making anything innovative just because it is "new to the company". That I can't provide proof that it isn't is true, but wasn't the main point I was making.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 1:30:15 GMT
How so though? You have no proof that can say as such on such a statement. I can say the same thing about any game I want really. Cyberpunk trailer today? I see no innovation, looks like a low rent Deus Ex clone. Poor CD Projekt Red failing to innovate again... See how easy it is to make something declarative. Truth is we have no way of judging otherwise because we have not played anything yet in our hands. Going by looks or comparisons or jargon is simply not enough to make something definitively true. I apologize for being very curt right now, but wasting time with empty declaratives is part of the damn problem, and you are wasting time in even arguing that. ETA: If were going to curb bad habits, we need to start by realizing when we aren't helping a situation. The clickbait stuff I would point to as being a major problem that needs to be removed. That is just the tip of the iceberg. You demand proof that Anthem is not innovative yet provide none that it is. Worse, you manipulate the definition of the word "innovative" to try and throw Bioware a bone. Bioware aren't making anything innovative just because it is "new to the company". That I can't provide proof that it isn't is true, but wasn't the main point I was making. That implies you had a point to begin with where there is none to be had. Let me spell it out to be clear. Declarative statements about any game are bullshit. And most people in the community is full of bullshit without actual proof of the game in their hands. Gamers need to admit that any form of hype generated is falsified by feelings. It's all tribalist pushing and this desire to be right that is poisoning it. Judge the product in your hands when it comes out if you must. Analyze the gameplay and video and the synthesis of the two together. Or not bother with it if you wish. But people need to stop the armchair analysis. Gamers are not experts in anything but hot air and subjective feelings.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 1:32:49 GMT
You demand proof that Anthem is not innovative yet provide none that it is. Worse, you manipulate the definition of the word "innovative" to try and throw Bioware a bone. Bioware aren't making anything innovative just because it is "new to the company". That I can't provide proof that it isn't is true, but wasn't the main point I was making. That implies you had a point to begin with where there is none to be had. Let me spell it out to be clear. Declarative statements about any game are bullshit. And most people in the community is full of bullshit without actual proof of the game in their hands. Gamers need to admit that any form of hype generated is falsified by feelings. It's all tribalist pushing and this desire to be right that is poisoning it. Judge the product in your hands when it comes out if you must. Analyze the gameplay and video and the synthesis of the two together. Or not bother with it if you wish. But people need to stop the armchair analysis. Gamers are not experts in anything but hot air and subjective feelings. My point? It's this. Your post was full of nonsense containing nothing of substance culminating in a conclusion based on an incorrect definition. Your defense of devs in general based in emotion and not fact, and your persistence of missing the point of my post, which was that your argument is lacking, is indicative of the bias you hold on this position
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 1:36:28 GMT
That implies you had a point to begin with where there is none to be had. Let me spell it out to be clear. Declarative statements about any game are bullshit. And most people in the community is full of bullshit without actual proof of the game in their hands. Gamers need to admit that any form of hype generated is falsified by feelings. It's all tribalist pushing and this desire to be right that is poisoning it. Judge the product in your hands when it comes out if you must. Analyze the gameplay and video and the synthesis of the two together. Or not bother with it if you wish. But people need to stop the armchair analysis. Gamers are not experts in anything but hot air and subjective feelings. My point? It's this. Your post was full of nonsense containing nothing of substance culminating in a conclusion based on an incorrect definition. Your defense of devs in general based in emotion and not fact, and your persistence of missing the point of my post, which was that your argument is lacking, is indicative of the bias you hold on this position You said a whole lot of nothing with no actual proof, my friend. Perhaps you should curb your own nonsense next time. Excuse me, I have to go back to covering these games so you can pretend to care about them since it's so important for you to be right . So far, just Andrew WK partying on Bethesda's stage...that's selling Rage 2 right there. a rocker trying to hype a game we know nothing about. Must be good.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 1:38:10 GMT
You said a whole lot of nothing with no actual proof, my friend. Funny, that was my reaction to your initial post. Except include "manipulating the meaning of words to promote a stance" to the list as well.
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Post by CHRrOME on Jun 11, 2018 1:42:59 GMT
So, am I supposed to support them blindly in all their endeavours even when they don't deliver? Sorry, I can't be excited about a game that does not excite me. I was shotted by them already in the past (ME3, Andromeda, Inquisition to a degree). They think WE are negative? Look at other communities, they are far more "toxic" . I think these devs are too touchy. I understand them, I do, but they don't seem to understand our perspective.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jun 11, 2018 1:45:05 GMT
Bioware killed the bsn because it was toxic What does that tell you?? That you're full of hyperbole?
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jun 11, 2018 1:50:41 GMT
Bioware killed the bsn because it was toxic What does that tell you?? That you're full of hyperbole? Uhm..how? They pretty much spelled it out.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 1:52:51 GMT
That you're full of hyperbole? Uhm..how? They pretty much spelled it out. I remember when the Bethesda forums were full of toxicity. After Oblivion released the forums blew up for a year, it was when all the devs went into hiding. Many bannings occurred, links to RPGCodex were censored to "I Love Bethesda" or something stupid. But ... their forums are still around. I wonder if the difference in attitude between Bethesda and Bioware is telling ...
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 11, 2018 2:20:47 GMT
It doesn't help that the Anthem presentation was so barebones as well as borning nor that the game removed features that made BioWare so beloved to the gaming community.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 2:24:11 GMT
It doesn't help that the Anthem presentation was so barebones as well as borning nor that the game removed features that made BioWare so beloved to the gaming community. Bioware exploded onto the scene with their unique take of strategy and RPG goodness and it was awesome. After that they morphed to be all about the storytelling shedding their in depth gameplay, but it was still good. They still had an identity. What's their identity now? I dunno.
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Post by Pearl on Jun 11, 2018 3:33:11 GMT
What's their identity now? I dunno. a worn-out punching bag
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 11, 2018 3:40:52 GMT
BioWare is in a really rough position right now. DA:I has faded pretty quickly from the minds of the gaming world (its weak competition at release and being followed up by TW3 certainly didn't help), MEA crashed and burned, and hell there's still a lot of people out there that feel slighted by ME3. Throw in on top of that all of EA's bullshit. So they're not starting from a good point.
Now on top of that they're making a game far outside of their traditional zone that positively reeks of trying to cash in on the market for games like Destiny or Titanfall. I do not believe this project was given to BioWare because they're the best suited for it, I wholeheartedly believe that they were chosen for name recognition (what little that is worth these days) and because all of EA's other big studios have their hands full with big and monetizable titles. On top of that, there's not anything to really set this game out from the crowd. Its a co-op/mp open world shooter, taking some definite cues from Destony with class design and even seemingly aesthetics. I think the more pertinent question than "why is this being received negatively" is "why should we be optimistic for this?"
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2018 7:47:14 GMT
Bioware killed the bsn because it was toxic What does that tell you?? That they wanted it dead, hence why they stopped doing their moderating job years before.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 11, 2018 7:58:30 GMT
What's their identity now? I dunno. It has to be story and characters, both of which I'm looking forward to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 8:35:47 GMT
Bioware fosters this type of environment with the way they treat their fans. There's nothing wrong with pursuing a different type of audience, but doing it right after deleting your forums and murdering Mass Effect is a really bad look. You know something is wrong with your PR strategy when your own fans want you to go bankrupt. This wins you a lifetime’s supply of your favorite drink. Nail hit on head here.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 11, 2018 8:41:29 GMT
It's at least nice that Casey said this week he'd like to do more Mass Effect.
That IP is not dead, just 'resting'.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jun 11, 2018 10:13:22 GMT
A better question will be: which place is not filled with anti-Anthem negativity? The anti EA/Bioware hate is everywhere, outside for the odd comment all I see is "fuck EA", "Bioware death is welcome", "I wish this game will fail hard", "Boycott EA", "Bioware has been taken over by SJWs" and so forth.
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2018 10:38:44 GMT
It's at least nice that Casey said this week he'd like to do more Mass Effect. That IP is not dead, just 'resting'. Yeah its nice to know its still at least on their minds. Though i will caveat that by the thought that if its just a twinkle in their fathers eye at this moment and it'll be years before any fruition & what it'll be if it is conceived may not bear much resemblance to what it was before
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 11, 2018 10:54:53 GMT
It's at least nice that Casey said this week he'd like to do more Mass Effect. That IP is not dead, just 'resting'. Yeah its nice to know its still at least on their minds. Though i will caveat that by the thought that if its just a twinkle in their fathers eye at this moment and it'll be years before any fruition & what it'll be if it is conceived may not bear much resemblance to what it was before I'd say 2025 for more Mass Effect at the earliest...
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 11, 2018 10:58:59 GMT
Yeah its nice to know its still at least on their minds. Though i will caveat that by the thought that if its just a twinkle in their fathers eye at this moment and it'll be years before any fruition & what it'll be if it is conceived may not bear much resemblance to what it was before I'd say 2025 for more Mass Effect at the earliest... I dunno, they've made most of the assets, and I think it's going to be after DA4, cus I don't see them planning to make a new IP right after Anthem. I supect DA4 will release either 2020/2021, and then for their next project maybe 2023? BioWare try to release new games in about a 2 year time frame. Of course I could be wrong and they could have a different project planned after DA4.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 11, 2018 11:07:41 GMT
It's at least nice that Casey said this week he'd like to do more Mass Effect. That IP is not dead, just 'resting'. That’s what Visceral Games said about the Dead Space series before EA took them behind the shed. BioWare is very lucky that they still have one remaining profitable flagship series.
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