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Post by cloud9 on Jun 18, 2018 8:38:23 GMT
DMC2 has potential and it's too bad that the game didn't live up to it, but if I were to remake DMC2 I would change a lot of things that needs a lot of improvement.
1. Story/Character
The story needs to be revamped and the story of the game is very bland and extremely boring (So are the characters). But it has a decent foundation to expand it more, and set it up for the endings to have good or bad outcome depending on choices and actions of Dante and Lucia. My ideal story is a setting of a mass demonic invasion summoned by Arius to decimate Dumary Island to obtain the Arcana artifacts from ancient ruins protected and preserved by Vie De Marli Clan to become a powerful immortal entity to enslave humanity. (I would set up the invasion to more of a massacre to be as gruesome and horrifying as possible to be the background of the story, and to get the players to know what's really at stake what they were up against.) As the invasion sets on the island, Matier sent Lucia on a mission to destroy the artifacts to prevent Arius from using them while the elder gathered the warriors of Vie De Marli to fight against the demons and protect the people the best way they can. And I want to be able to play or at least see Dante's flashbacks to experience pain, tradegy, and horror that made him the man in the original DMC2 and why he's leaving things to fate by tossing a coin. I want Dante to be more empathetic and emotionally invested as a tragic hero that lost everything that he loves, and still has to fufill his destiny as a protector just like his father before him. Also they could set up to have a romance to strengthen character development of Dante and Lucia and experience love for the first time on DMC series. I think Capcom need to recruit writers from CDPR who wrote the Witcher series to revamp the story for DMC2. Hell, even recruit writers who did Origins for that matter, because I love the dark tone and the emotional investment of storytelling.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 18, 2018 19:22:12 GMT
The original creator of Devil May Cry, Hideki Kayima wanted to remake the original DMC, inspired by the successful God of War and wanted to make the game mature, best hack and slash reboot to offer if Capcom wanted to partner with Platinum Games. I think they should've come to him instead of Ninja Theory who screwed up the franchise by that awful reboot that is even more unbearable than DMC 2. m.ign.com/articles/2018/03/14/devil-may-cry-creator-wants-to-remake-the-first-game-for-capcom
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 18, 2018 20:43:48 GMT
Ehhhhh, no thanks. Keep that edgy God of War bollocks away from my Devil May Cry. DMC5 is in good hands with Itsuno, the man who crafted DMC3 (the best in the series). It’ll be fine.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 18, 2018 21:39:46 GMT
Ehhhhh, no thanks. Keep that edgy God of War bollocks away from my Devil May Cry. DMC5 is in good hands with Itsuno, the man who crafted DMC3 (the best in the series). It’ll be fine. *deep sigh* Have you even read the article? He never said that he wanted DMC to be like God of War, only inspired by it because it took a different route and he wanted to do the same with the original DMC. 😒😏
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 19, 2018 3:25:44 GMT
Ehhhhh, no thanks. Keep that edgy God of War bollocks away from my Devil May Cry. DMC5 is in good hands with Itsuno, the man who crafted DMC3 (the best in the series). It’ll be fine. *deep sigh* Have you even read the article? He never said that he wanted DMC to be like God of War, only inspired by it because it took a different route and he wanted to do the same with the original DMC. 😒😏 Don’t *sigh* me You what he also says? That games aren’t art. www.resetera.com/threads/kamiya-says-games-are-not-art-nsfw.46521/I wouldn’t take what Kamiya says at 100% face value. DMC did take a different route with Donte May Cry and it didn’t work, much more than it worked handing the Silent Hill series over to western developers but now it’s back in the hands of a man who knows what he is doing. Itsuno. And even despite what Kamiya says, his Bayonetta games seems to follow the classic stylish action series traits of Devil May Cry even to this day. I’m not saying the games shouldn’t change at all, in fact DMC5 does look a bit different from DMC4, but it should still retain the “Japanese” and over the top self ware ness of its predecessors. And from what I’ve seen of DMC5 so far? It seems to do just that. It’s just the new engine that clashes with the established “anime esque” artstyle of the series.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 19, 2018 7:09:59 GMT
*deep sigh* Have you even read the article? He never said that he wanted DMC to be like God of War, only inspired by it because it took a different route and he wanted to do the same with the original DMC. 😒😏 Don’t *sigh* me You what he also says? That games aren’t art. www.resetera.com/threads/kamiya-says-games-are-not-art-nsfw.46521/I wouldn’t take what Kamiya says at 100% face value. DMC did take a different route with Donte May Cry and it didn’t work, much more than it worked handing the Silent Hill series over to western developers but now it’s back in the hands of a man who knows what he is doing. Itsuno. And even despite what Kamiya says, his Bayonetta games seems to follow the classic stylish action series traits of Devil May Cry even to this day. I’m not saying the games shouldn’t change at all, in fact DMC5 does look a bit different from DMC4, but it should still retain the “Japanese” and over the top self ware ness of its predecessors. And from what I’ve seen of DMC5 so far? It seems to do just that. It’s just the new engine that clashes with the established “anime esque” artstyle of the series. That's his opinion and he did created the best hack and slash video game Capcom has to offer, before they dumbed it down after he resigned. And they should've came to him to make a reboot for DMC and not Ninja Theory.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jun 19, 2018 15:14:04 GMT
DMC2 has potential and it's too bad that the game didn't live up to it, but if I were to remake DMC2 I would change a lot of things that needs a lot of improvement. 1. Story/Character The story needs to be revamped and the story of the game is very bland and extremely boring (So are the characters). But it has a decent foundation to expand it more, and set it up for the endings to have good or bad outcome depending on choices and actions of Dante and Lucia. My ideal story is a setting of a mass demonic invasion summoned by Arius to decimate Dumary Island to obtain the Arcana artifacts from ancient ruins protected and preserved by Vie De Marli Clan to become a powerful immortal entity to enslave humanity. (I would set up the invasion to more of a massacre to be as gruesome and horrifying as possible to be the background of the story, and to get the players to know what's really at stake what they were up against.) As the invasion sets on the island, Matier sent Lucia on a mission to destroy the artifacts to prevent Arius from using them while the elder gathered the warriors of Vie De Marli to fight against the demons and protect the people the best way they can. And I want to be able to play or at least see Dante's flashbacks to experience pain, tradegy, and horror that made him the man in the original DMC2 and why he's leaving things to fate by tossing a coin. I want Dante to be more empathetic and emotionally invested as a tragic hero that lost everything that he loves, and still has to fufill his destiny as a protector just like his father before him. Also they could set up to have a romance to strengthen character development of Dante and Lucia and experience love for the first time on DMC series. I think Capcom need to recruit writers from CDPR who wrote the Witcher series to revamp the story for DMC2. Hell, even recruit writers who did Origins for that matter, because I love the dark tone and the emotional investment of storytelling. I liked DMC2 a lot. There were some great ideas there. The yellow orb resurrection animation, Dante being a little more mature, the desperate devil form, multiple playable characters, stylish alternate costumes, a dodge button etc. Honestly if it was called something other than DMC or it was like some kind of offshoot and didn't have Dante, it would have done better in sales.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 19, 2018 16:39:31 GMT
DMC2's problem is that like Dragon's Dogma the game felt like it was a tech demo/pre-alpha build, but in it's specific case it's noticeable in the level & enemy design, and sparse narrative. You spend the majority of the game treking through generic post apocalyptic city ruins (Raccoon City?) with limited interactivity beyond bare-bones platforming, nevermind it looking ugly as hell because the design team opted for a full 3d environment instead of prerendered, and has aged like sour milk too. Due to it's limited number of combos, lack of melee weapon types beyond swords, in combination with health sponge boss fights the combat is tedious, while there's no cohesion in enemy design as you fight nearly every generic enemy type thought possible in a vg such as killer bats, tanks, helicopters, baphomet (goat demon), vultures, cherubs, monkeys, stone men, slimes, lizard men and skeletons. The story needs explanation.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 19, 2018 17:33:29 GMT
I’ve always liked Lucia’s devil trigger design
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 20, 2018 2:00:35 GMT
Speakind of DDT (AKA Majin Form)
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 20, 2018 21:12:02 GMT
Don’t *sigh* me You what he also says? That games aren’t art. www.resetera.com/threads/kamiya-says-games-are-not-art-nsfw.46521/I wouldn’t take what Kamiya says at 100% face value. DMC did take a different route with Donte May Cry and it didn’t work, much more than it worked handing the Silent Hill series over to western developers but now it’s back in the hands of a man who knows what he is doing. Itsuno. And even despite what Kamiya says, his Bayonetta games seems to follow the classic stylish action series traits of Devil May Cry even to this day. I’m not saying the games shouldn’t change at all, in fact DMC5 does look a bit different from DMC4, but it should still retain the “Japanese” and over the top self ware ness of its predecessors. And from what I’ve seen of DMC5 so far? It seems to do just that. It’s just the new engine that clashes with the established “anime esque” artstyle of the series. That's his opinion and he did created the best hack and slash video game Capcom has to offer, before they dumbed it down after he resigned. And they should've came to him to make a reboot for DMC and not Ninja Theory. It’s a terrible opinion And while DMC1 is a great game, it pales in comparison to DMC3 which alongside DMC4 has the best combat in the series. Saying it is dumbed down leaves me to question as to whether you actually played all of the games, or took enough time to learn all the shit you can do with DMC3 and 4’s systems.
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Post by kraidy on Jun 20, 2018 21:52:32 GMT
Don’t *sigh* me You what he also says? That games aren’t art. www.resetera.com/threads/kamiya-says-games-are-not-art-nsfw.46521/I wouldn’t take what Kamiya says at 100% face value. DMC did take a different route with Donte May Cry and it didn’t work, much more than it worked handing the Silent Hill series over to western developers but now it’s back in the hands of a man who knows what he is doing. Itsuno. And even despite what Kamiya says, his Bayonetta games seems to follow the classic stylish action series traits of Devil May Cry even to this day. I’m not saying the games shouldn’t change at all, in fact DMC5 does look a bit different from DMC4, but it should still retain the “Japanese” and over the top self ware ness of its predecessors. And from what I’ve seen of DMC5 so far? It seems to do just that. It’s just the new engine that clashes with the established “anime esque” artstyle of the series. That's his opinion and he did created the best hack and slash video game Capcom has to offer, before they dumbed it down after he resigned. And they should've came to him to make a reboot for DMC and not Ninja Theory. Did-did you just say DMC 3 and 4 are dumbed down and worse then DMC 1? WTF. What next, NG3 was better then NG1+2
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jun 20, 2018 22:10:40 GMT
Devil May Cry 2 just needed more time and money.
Dragon's Dogma as well.
Capcom should have put more faith in Itsuno.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 21, 2018 6:16:43 GMT
That's his opinion and he did created the best hack and slash video game Capcom has to offer, before they dumbed it down after he resigned. And they should've came to him to make a reboot for DMC and not Ninja Theory. Did-did you just say DMC 3 and 4 are dumbed down and worse then DMC 1? WTF. What next, NG3 was better then NG1+2 Capcom did downgrade the franchise when it comes to storytelling and characters especially in DMC4. And the reboot is the worst of all out and it is a disgrace to the franchise.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 21, 2018 6:19:11 GMT
Devil May Cry 2 just needed more time and money. Dragon's Dogma as well. Capcom should have put more faith in Itsuno. He should've recruit talented writers if he wants to pull this off.
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 21, 2018 9:48:28 GMT
Did-did you just say DMC 3 and 4 are dumbed down and worse then DMC 1? WTF. What next, NG3 was better then NG1+2 Capcom did downgrade the franchise when it comes to storytelling and characters especially in DMC4. And the reboot is the worst of all out and it is a disgrace to the franchise. Eh, no. DMC3 has the best plot in the series, where Dante actually has an arc and actually loses things he cares about. He’s not invulnerable force in said game like Bayonetta. In the first game he’s stoic, with terrible dialogue (with the few amount of lines he has) on top of the bad voice acting. Kamiya’s strength is that he has good ideas, where other developers have build something that is a lot better. Like Devil May Cry 3, and in my opinion Bayonetta 2 which has a plot that is actually not a bunch of nonesense like the first game. And DmC Devil May Cry is all Ninja Theory, in terms of writing and combat. I’m just gonna link this video again, as it summarizes the strength of third game really well.
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 21, 2018 10:05:45 GMT
Devil May Cry 2 just needed more time and money. Dragon's Dogma as well. Capcom should have put more faith in Itsuno. He should've recruit talented writers if he wants to pull this off. Why is it that you are always so hung up on the writing with Devil May Cry? You can’t honestly tell me you became a fan of this series because of the writing? Now, I don’t think an action shouldn’t have a decent plot (DMC3 does) but I feel like the priority needs to be more focused on the combat. Devil May Cry is the equivalent of an a Hollywood action, or a shonen anime. Its strengths lies in its fun charming characters, spewing badass one liners, as well as its gothic aesthetic and heavyrock/metal based soundtrack but importantly it being over the top nonesense which is clearly reflected in its insane combat. DMC2 had none of this. The combat was junk, the bosses were uninspired generic tanks and helicopters which is a goddamn sin for a Devil May Cry game, and the main villain was just downright laughable and forgettable. That game had a lot of problems beyond its story. DMC4’s major weakpoint was that it had too many recycled maps, bosses and dumb mini-games. The overall environment and world wasn’t as interesting as the tower in DMC3 or the Castle in DMC1. 5 needs to find that right balance again, because 4 had great combat, Dante was a fun goofball character it and looking past its major issues it was an overall enjoyable ride, I’d say. 4 also had one of the most fun bosses in an action, ala Credo.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 22, 2018 1:55:17 GMT
He should've recruit talented writers if he wants to pull this off. Why is it that you are always so hung up on the writing with Devil May Cry? You can’t honestly tell me you became a fan of this series because of the writing? Now, I don’t think an action shouldn’t have a decent plot (DMC3 does) but I feel like the priority needs to be more focused on the combat. Devil May Cry is the equivalent of an a Hollywood action, or a shonen anime. Its strengths lies in its fun charming characters, spewing badass one liners, as well as its gothic aesthetic and heavyrock/metal based soundtrack but importantly it being over the top nonesense which is clearly reflected in its insane combat. DMC2 had none of this. The combat was junk, the bosses were uninspired generic tanks and helicopters which is a goddamn sin for a Devil May Cry game, and the main villain was just downright laughable and forgettable. That game had a lot of problems beyond its story. DMC4’s major weakpoint was that it had too many recycled maps, bosses and dumb mini-games. The overall environment and world wasn’t as interesting as the tower in DMC3 or the Castle in DMC1. 5 needs to find that right balance again, because 4 had great combat, Dante was a fun goofball character it and looking past its major issues it was an overall enjoyable ride, I’d say. 4 also had one of the most fun bosses in an action, ala Credo. I liked their games but they need a different course of direction with their storytelling and characters. If they don't take those directions to improve, I'll ended up being bored when I'm playing them, and I don't want to stop playing their games, and ended up being bored with inconsistent storytelling and melodrama.
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 22, 2018 20:13:09 GMT
Why is it that you are always so hung up on the writing with Devil May Cry? You can’t honestly tell me you became a fan of this series because of the writing? Now, I don’t think an action shouldn’t have a decent plot (DMC3 does) but I feel like the priority needs to be more focused on the combat. Devil May Cry is the equivalent of an a Hollywood action, or a shonen anime. Its strengths lies in its fun charming characters, spewing badass one liners, as well as its gothic aesthetic and heavyrock/metal based soundtrack but importantly it being over the top nonesense which is clearly reflected in its insane combat. DMC2 had none of this. The combat was junk, the bosses were uninspired generic tanks and helicopters which is a goddamn sin for a Devil May Cry game, and the main villain was just downright laughable and forgettable. That game had a lot of problems beyond its story. DMC4’s major weakpoint was that it had too many recycled maps, bosses and dumb mini-games. The overall environment and world wasn’t as interesting as the tower in DMC3 or the Castle in DMC1. 5 needs to find that right balance again, because 4 had great combat, Dante was a fun goofball character it and looking past its major issues it was an overall enjoyable ride, I’d say. 4 also had one of the most fun bosses in an action, ala Credo. I liked their games but they need a different course of direction with their storytelling and characters. If they don't take those directions to improve, I'll ended up being bored when I'm playing them, and I don't want to stop playing their games, and ended up being bored with inconsistent storytelling and melodrama. The characters are fine as they are, they neatly reflect the the crazy over the top nonesense that is Devil May Cry. It’s fair enough if you don’t enjoy that aspect of it though.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 23, 2018 8:29:10 GMT
I liked their games but they need a different course of direction with their storytelling and characters. If they don't take those directions to improve, I'll ended up being bored when I'm playing them, and I don't want to stop playing their games, and ended up being bored with inconsistent storytelling and melodrama. The characters are fine as they are, they neatly reflect the the crazy over the top nonesense that is Devil May Cry. It’s fair enough if you don’t enjoy that aspect of it though. That's your opinion. I said what I said and that was that.
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Post by kraidy on Jun 23, 2018 19:33:27 GMT
Did-did you just say DMC 3 and 4 are dumbed down and worse then DMC 1? WTF. What next, NG3 was better then NG1+2 Capcom did downgrade the franchise when it comes to storytelling and characters especially in DMC4. And the reboot is the worst of all out and it is a disgrace to the franchise. Lady>Trish Uncle Dante>DMC1 Dante Vergil>Nelo Angelo
Also nice back peddling since you didn't mention writing at all, you said best hack and slash. Story doesn't make hack and slash, it's just a side dish. A good hack and slash is held up by its gameplay which is why Ninja Gaiden Black, NG2, DMC3 and DMC 4 are still king.
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Post by CitizenChris on Jun 23, 2018 19:35:56 GMT
The characters are fine as they are, they neatly reflect the the crazy over the top nonesense that is Devil May Cry. It’s fair enough if you don’t enjoy that aspect of it though. That's your opinion. I said what I said and that was that. Yeah? I pointed out the fact that I respect that you don’t enjoy it, even if I don’t agree.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 24, 2018 3:50:16 GMT
Capcom did downgrade the franchise when it comes to storytelling and characters especially in DMC4. And the reboot is the worst of all out and it is a disgrace to the franchise. Lady>Trish Uncle Dante>DMC1 Dante Vergil>Nelo Angelo
Also nice back peddling since you didn't mention writing at all, you said best hack and slash. Story doesn't make hack and slash, it's just a side dish. A good hack and slash is held up by its gameplay which is why Ninja Gaiden Black, NG2, DMC3 and DMC 4 are still king. Twisting words is not the smart way to counter my statement. I'm very aware that gameplay can make a difference in games. (Like duh!) But writing a story without any development whatsoever, or to fix it to have a balanced game, is just as problematic as a poor gameplay. Take God of War for example. It's a hack and slash game with an excellent story and the character has evolved into a man of wisdom, a father, and a man who's trying to change his life. That's what DMC need to learn from if they want people to be engaged with the game.
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 117 Likes: 164
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Aug 28, 2018 14:18:55 GMT
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Aug 27, 2016 19:33:03 GMT
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kraidy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kraidy on Jun 24, 2018 4:44:13 GMT
Lady>Trish Uncle Dante>DMC1 Dante Vergil>Nelo Angelo
Also nice back peddling since you didn't mention writing at all, you said best hack and slash. Story doesn't make hack and slash, it's just a side dish. A good hack and slash is held up by its gameplay which is why Ninja Gaiden Black, NG2, DMC3 and DMC 4 are still king. Twisting words is not the smart way to counter my statement. I'm very aware that gameplay can make a difference in games. (Like duh!) But writing a story without any development whatsoever, or to fix it to have a balanced game, is just as problematic as a poor gameplay. Take God of War for example. It's a hack and slash game with an excellent story and the character has evolved into a man of wisdom, a father, and a man who's trying to change his life. That's what DMC need to learn from if they want people to be engaged with the game. No it doesn't. Kratos was never a beloved character like Dante, many people turned against Kratos by God of war 3 because he was too much of an asshole. GOW 4 Kratos only exists because Kratos was no longer seen as the badass warrior he was in GoW 1, he was an asshole who caused most of his problems and that wouldn't fly anymore (more so after Asura who did the whole revenge against gods better AND had a daughter ). Neither Dante nor the cast of DMC need that, because they are perfect as they are. A group of fun and crazy characters. Last time Capcom tried to do a unneeded shake up, we got DmC which was not only poorly written, had worse gameplay.
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cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 24, 2018 5:06:12 GMT
Twisting words is not the smart way to counter my statement. I'm very aware that gameplay can make a difference in games. (Like duh!) But writing a story without any development whatsoever, or to fix it to have a balanced game, is just as problematic as a poor gameplay. Take God of War for example. It's a hack and slash game with an excellent story and the character has evolved into a man of wisdom, a father, and a man who's trying to change his life. That's what DMC need to learn from if they want people to be engaged with the game. No it doesn't. Kratos was never a beloved character like Dante, many people turned against Kratos by God of war 3 because he was too much of an asshole. GOW 4 Kratos only exists because Kratos was no longer seen as the badass warrior he was in GoW 1, he was an asshole who caused most of his problems and that wouldn't fly anymore (more so after Asura who did the whole revenge against gods better AND had a daughter ). Neither Dante nor the cast of DMC need that, because they are perfect as they are, fun and crazy characters. Last time Capcom tried to do a unneeded shake up, we got DmC which was not only poorly written, had worse gameplay. 😑😑 There's a difference between learning and copying. At least Kratos has character development throughout the franchise, and Dante has no character development whatsoever. Just the same old personality on all games except DMC2, and that's getting boring pretty quick. And that's Capcom's fault that they gave the game to Ninja Theory that made a reboot DmC a hot ass mess.
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