inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Dec 29, 2019 8:01:52 GMT
I read the screencap Mithras posted, and I think we know enough about Amelia to say that she was just screwed. She went into a wild-eyed panic at the thought of unfamiliar surroundings. I don't know if there's any setting where that's a good combination with magical powers, and given that this setting's magic system is designed to create tragic monsters... well, what sort of training regimen can be designed to make this not a perfect recipe for one? To learn her abilities without fear. The stuff on the screen-cap didn't give me the impression that she was capable of that.Then where? You're not suggesting home-schooling her in the middle of a city?No, it really didn't. She had problems anyway. Connor you can set at the templars' door; I haven't been denying that. But neither Meredith's story nor WoT's expansion on it make it sound like Amelia had a chance.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,492
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,492
Noxluxe
1,979
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Dec 29, 2019 10:23:17 GMT
I've already warned you previously of what badly-timed use of emojis looks like. If you don't care about what that does to your position, that's your problem. I've been discussing things this entire time. The only reason you're accusing me of not listening is because you don't want to admit that your argument has failed. I have encountered that tactic many times before and will encounter it many times after I've forgotten you. Isolde was terrified of losing her child forever. If the system hadn't created that fear, Connor would have gotten the training he needed and the undead incident never would have happened. If people's decisions were rational they would realize the myriad ways that the system is causing the problems it's supposed to prevent. Yet they actively resist fixing such problems. That's not a rational reaction. I know that from having a basic understanding of how people think, and remembering that mages don't inexplicably think differently from everyone else just because of their powers. The fact that a Knight-Commander who engages in forms of torture is considered "overly-permissive" speaks for itself. Whether something is considered a form of torture refers to the effect on the recipient. Short-term solitary confinement is debatable. Over a year with no human contact has long since crossed the line. Yes, I have refuted the disease analogy by explaining how they're simply not comparable. You just don't like it. No, you didn't, you just said that emoticons can make it seem like someone is trolling and have then gone on to decide that I must be trolling because I use emoticons. And that's some weird-ass troll logic. Sounds to me like you've just been going around dismissing people's arguments because you don't like or don't understand emoticons. See? You repeat your arguments verbatim, completely ignoring my points. You didn't care to address the possibility that the Circles have had greater contact between mage children and parents before and it resulted in dozens of Conners causing disasters all over the world as a result. Which I find at least as plausible as Isolde being a sensible woman who correctly judged that she for whatever reason would truly never get the chance to see Conner again if he went to the Circle. For all we know, "fixing the system" in the way you're describing has only made it worse before and would only make it worse now. In which case not doing so is perfectly rational. Judicial systems the world over exist to "prevent" crime, yet none have ever succeeded in actually preventing all crime. Should they be changed and adjusted and rewritten over and over again until they do? No, because preventing all crime has never been realistic. The system only exists to mitigate it as much as humanly possible. You've totally failed to address the fact that Thedas still has no real concept of human rights, or for that matter the knowledge of why being alone for extended periods of time would be more dangerous to people than flogging them, so your idea of solitary confinement violating that isn't actually anything anyone in the setting could recognize, let alone act on. The risk of being utterly isolated if you angered the administration, even for extended periods of time, is simply part of what imprisonment has meant for much of history. And actually still is in much of the world. And even then, the way Anders describes his "solitary confinement" doesn't sound anything like what you're implying. He says "there were days when that stupid cat was the only person I saw", referring to Mr. Wiggums. Meaning that he had regular contact at least with Templars and was held in a place open enough for a cat to have access. That's a far cry from the blank enclosed cells used for the purpose even today. And again, no, you haven't. A highly infectious person is dangerous to everyone around them and needs to be kept isolated, and that goes for mages too. Nobody said that the specific ways in which they were dangerous were the same, just that the fact that that they were meant they both mandated isolation from the public. If you think you refuted that by complaining that infections and magic aren't exactly the same and that thinking that way about people is dangerous in real life than I'm afraid you might have a long roster of arguments you've "refuted" simply by missing their point. And then you lied out of your ass about it never having been historically necessary to treat people inhumanely for the public safety, even though we know for a fact that it has been. You haven't refuted it, you clearly just don't like it.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,016
sageoflife
1,412
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Dec 29, 2019 12:09:21 GMT
I've already warned you previously of what badly-timed use of emojis looks like. If you don't care about what that does to your position, that's your problem. I've been discussing things this entire time. The only reason you're accusing me of not listening is because you don't want to admit that your argument has failed. I have encountered that tactic many times before and will encounter it many times after I've forgotten you. Isolde was terrified of losing her child forever. If the system hadn't created that fear, Connor would have gotten the training he needed and the undead incident never would have happened. If people's decisions were rational they would realize the myriad ways that the system is causing the problems it's supposed to prevent. Yet they actively resist fixing such problems. That's not a rational reaction. I know that from having a basic understanding of how people think, and remembering that mages don't inexplicably think differently from everyone else just because of their powers. The fact that a Knight-Commander who engages in forms of torture is considered "overly-permissive" speaks for itself. Whether something is considered a form of torture refers to the effect on the recipient. Short-term solitary confinement is debatable. Over a year with no human contact has long since crossed the line. Yes, I have refuted the disease analogy by explaining how they're simply not comparable. You just don't like it. No, you didn't, you just said that emoticons can make it seem like someone is trolling and have then gone on to decide that I must be trolling because I use emoticons. And that's some weird-ass troll logic. Sounds to me like you've just been going around dismissing people's arguments because you don't like or don't understand emoticons. See? You repeat your arguments verbatim, completely ignoring my points. You didn't care to address the possibility that the Circles have had greater contact between mage children and parents before and it resulted in dozens of Conners causing disasters all over the world as a result. Which I find at least as plausible as Isolde being a sensible woman who correctly judged that she for whatever reason would truly never get the chance to see Conner again if he went to the Circle. For all we know, "fixing the system" in the way you're describing has only made it worse before and would only make it worse now. In which case not doing so is perfectly rational. Judicial systems the world over exist to "prevent" crime, yet none have ever succeeded in actually preventing all crime. Should they be changed and adjusted and rewritten over and over again until they do? No, because preventing all crime has never been realistic. The system only exists to mitigate it as much as humanly possible. You've totally failed to address the fact that Thedas still has no real concept of human rights, or for that matter the knowledge of why being alone for extended periods of time would be more dangerous to people than flogging them, so your idea of solitary confinement violating that isn't actually anything anyone in the setting could recognize, let alone act on. The risk of being utterly isolated if you angered the administration, even for extended periods of time, is simply part of what imprisonment has meant for much of history. And actually still is in much of the world. And even then, the way Anders describes his "solitary confinement" doesn't sound anything like what you're implying. He says "there were days when that stupid cat was the only person I saw", referring to Mr. Wiggums. Meaning that he had regular contact at least with Templars and was held in a place open enough for a cat to have access. That's a far cry from the blank enclosed cells used for the purpose even today. And again, no, you haven't. A highly infectious person is dangerous to everyone around them and needs to be kept isolated, and that goes for mages too. Nobody said that the specific ways in which they were dangerous were the same, just that the fact that that they were meant they both mandated isolation from the public. If you think you refuted that by complaining that infections and magic aren't exactly the same and that thinking that way about people is dangerous in real life than I'm afraid you might have a long roster of arguments you've "refuted" simply by missing their point. And then you lied out of your ass about it never having been historically necessary to treat people inhumanely for the public safety, even though we know for a fact that it has been. You haven't refuted it, you clearly just don't like it. No, it's because you have used emojis for the purpose of mockery and provocation, which is the definition of trolling. If you don't care how that weakens your argument, that's your problem. I have listened to your points. The only reason you're claiming otherwise is because things didn't go the way you wanted them to. You aren't the first person I've seen use that tactic and you won't be the last. Real-world judicial systems at least work to avoid creating the problems they're supposed to prevent. The Circle doesn't do that and refuses to do anything to fix that problem even as it's doing the exact opposite of its stated purpose. Torture is defined by the effect on the recipient, not by the person dealing it out. It also doesn't take modern science to notice that people subject to solitary confinement experience severe negative effects. Including Anders's mental issues that are directly responsible for turning Justice into Vengeance, while we have already seen with Wynne that such a situation is not inevitable. It is directly described as solitary confinement. Someone showing up to deliver meals doesn't count as human interaction, and being open enough for a cat to get in doesn't substitute for human contact. And once again, other Knight-Commanders consider this form of torture overly-permissive. That does not paint a good picture of what goes on in other Circles. I've repeatedly explained why your disease analogy doesn't work. You just don't like it. Just because people have been treated inhumanely in the past doesn't mean it was necessary to do so. It disturbs me that you think it was.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 12:11:11 GMT
To learn her abilities without fear. The stuff on the screen-cap didn't give me the impression that she was capable of that.Then where? You're not suggesting home-schooling her in the middle of a city?No, it really didn't. She had problems anyway. Connor you can set at the templars' door; I haven't been denying that. But neither Meredith's story nor WoT's expansion on it make it sound like Amelia had a chance. 1. Just think about it: She was inherently frightened by people. And her magic manifested. Her parents weren't able to explain her, what happened to her. In normal case her parents would bring her to a mage, who can help. Who else? The Templars? They're not able to do that, just arrest the mages and watch constantly. In such an environment a child, like Amelia hardly can learn anything just fear. 2. If not in a prison, then where? This is weird question... Like: Not the toilet is the best place to a dinner... Then what is the best place to a dinner? To me the prison built for punish the criminals, not for children education. That's grotesque. 3. Yes, I read it. Amelia had not a chance in this system, but she would, in a less inhumane system. (Not mentioned, after what happened to her shy sister, Meredith intentionally kept the mages in fear... She was never benevolent after this, she was just as weak person as Amelia – and became an abomination.)
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 12:35:35 GMT
1. Just think about it: I suppose her parents weren't able to explain her, what happened to her. In normal case her parents would bring her to a mage, who can help. 2. If not in a prison, then where? This is weird question... Like: Not the toilet is the best place to a dinner... Then what is the best place to a dinner? To me the prison built for punish the criminals, not for children education. That's grotesque. 3. Amelia had not a chance in this system, but she would, in a less inhumane system. A fair question 'tis. Where if not in the CIRCLE (Yes, and yes, for that time only the circle, NOT home-mage-trainor, not the prison, but "the circle") where other magees, trainor could have helped her to master her talent. How could you know, maybe she would have become a great mage. But because of her parents' stupidity (as in Connor's case, - decapitate such idiots endangering other simple people only to keep close their child, fucking morons) happened what had happened. WE DON'T KNOW, you can't say FOR SURE Amelia had no chance. Are you what? Fortune teller? Use crystal ball? It's broken. The main point: you punish single group or systeme for scewing up even if they didn't do that because in some other place similar systeme failed - in such cases people should learn from mistakes and improve abilities/systeme itself/etc. You don't know for sure how some events could have turned out. That is what nonsense. And the circle you keep calling 'prison" has people with the same abilities, and that can really help, you see you are not alone and you see you have help from others. Such support is a great deal (could have been for Amelia as well, we can't say now already).
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 12:40:01 GMT
she was just as weak person as Amelia – and became an abomination.) she was, because of her templars turned into thugs not doing their job - protecting people, helping simple people and helpijng mages + that red awesome-looking sword made its job - made her mad beyond help.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 13:15:08 GMT
Sonya1. The Circle in Southern-Thedas IS a prison, and absolutely not suited to educate children. Of course, someone able to learn here, (it's possible to eat in a toilet, just like in everywhere, it just not the best for it...) Not I said at first, that Amelia had no chance – in opposing, I said, she would have a chance, without prison Circles. Perhaps her parents were stupid (we don't know about their mental ability), but their behaviour is understandable. Just like Isolde's behaviour (she's terrible, but in this case, I can see her point). In the Circle were good mages, who were able to teach children, and to reassure them (Orsino for example, was a very good, caring First Enchanter, even knowing his mistake) – but the environment is very unhealthy. Even the walls watching, abuses, and also we didn't see Circles without instruments of torment. Especially the Gallows, but the Kinloch Hold's basement was full of cells. The White Spire, in Asunder, as well. It is undeniable that these were primarily prisons, only their second function was the education. I'm against the collective punishment, witch-hunt (by the way, the prison-Circle system based on this...) – but we can blame a system for its weakness, dangerousness, inhumanity without starting a witch hunt. 2. If her Templars turned into a mob, she was a bad leader, weak and/or intentionally criminal. She was the leader of them, she allowed what happened. Also: she used the fear as tool against the mages. Tranquilized and killed the mages randomly, for lesser "sins" than sending a love letter – or Cullen lied. And this happened before the Act1. Meredith was never suitable for her position, and yes, she was weak. Only a weak person behaves like her.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 13:31:42 GMT
1. The Circle in Southern-Thedas IS a prison, and absolutely not suited to educate children. Of course, someone able to learn here, (it's possible to eat in a toilet, just like in everywhere, it just not the best for it...) Not I said at first, that Amelia had no chance – in opposing, I said, she would have a chance, without prison Circles. Perhaps her parents were stupid (we don't know about their mental ability), but their behaviour is understandable. Just like Isolde's behaviour (she's terrible, but in this case, I can see her point). In the Circle were good mages, who were able to teach children, and to reassure them (Orsino for example, was a very good, caring First Enchanter, even knowing his mistake) – but the environment is very unhealthy. Even the walls watching, abuses, and also we didn't see Circles without instruments of torment. Especially the Gallows, but the Kinloch Hold's basement was full of cells. The White Spire, in Asunder, as well. It is undeniable that these were primarily prisons, only their second function was the education. I'm against the collective punishment, witch-hunt (by the way, the prison-Circle system based on this...) – but we can blame a system for its weakness, dangerousness, inhumanity without starting a witch hunt. so, where? You NEED people around you like you are- with mage abilities (as in our world with deadly illness or etc) as support, who can explain why/what/how. There isn't anything but the cirlce. If not there, so WHERE? Stumble upon such likes as Amelia and you are as a trainor - screwed. So it's better you let mages free endangering simple innocents rather than train them in circles even if the circles are not perfect BUT in this case innocets would be safe at least. Again, WHERE if not the circle? Amelia parents and Isolde still deserve decapitation. Parents or no - they chose blood on their hands (Isolde) rather than send Connor to the circle. Stupid bitch even wasn't punished for that blood and didn'r regret at all. Systeme? I say - BLOOD. 2. If her Templars turned into a mob, she was a bad leader, weak and/or intentionally criminal. She was the leader of them, she allowed what happened. Also: she used the fear as tool against the mages. Tranquilized and killed the mages randomly, for lesser "sins" than sending a love letter – or Cullen lied. And this happened before the Act1. Meredith was never suitable for her position, and yes, she was weak. Only a weak person behaves like her. I said she was strong? No. Nice composition, though.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 14:03:23 GMT
1. The Circle in Southern-Thedas IS a prison, and absolutely not suited to educate children. Of course, someone able to learn here, (it's possible to eat in a toilet, just like in everywhere, it just not the best for it...) Not I said at first, that Amelia had no chance – in opposing, I said, she would have a chance, without prison Circles. Perhaps her parents were stupid (we don't know about their mental ability), but their behaviour is understandable. Just like Isolde's behaviour (she's terrible, but in this case, I can see her point). In the Circle were good mages, who were able to teach children, and to reassure them (Orsino for example, was a very good, caring First Enchanter, even knowing his mistake) – but the environment is very unhealthy. Even the walls watching, abuses, and also we didn't see Circles without instruments of torment. Especially the Gallows, but the Kinloch Hold's basement was full of cells. The White Spire, in Asunder, as well. It is undeniable that these were primarily prisons, only their second function was the education. I'm against the collective punishment, witch-hunt (by the way, the prison-Circle system based on this...) – but we can blame a system for its weakness, dangerousness, inhumanity without starting a witch hunt. so, where? You NEED people around you like you are- with mage abilities (as in our world with deadly illness or etc) as support, who can explain why/what/how. There isn't anything but the cirlce. If not there, so WHERE? Stumble upon such likes as Amelia and you are as a trainor - screwed. So it's better you let mages free endangering simple innocents rather than train them in circles even if the circles are not perfect BUT in this case innocets would be safe at least. Again, WHERE if not the circle? Amelia parents and Isolde still deserve decapitation. Parents or no - they chose blood on their hands (Isolde) rather than send Connor to the circle. Stupid bitch even wasn't punished for that blood and didn'r regret at all. Systeme? I say - BLOOD. 2. If her Templars turned into a mob, she was a bad leader, weak and/or intentionally criminal. She was the leader of them, she allowed what happened. Also: she used the fear as tool against the mages. Tranquilized and killed the mages randomly, for lesser "sins" than sending a love letter – or Cullen lied. And this happened before the Act1. Meredith was never suitable for her position, and yes, she was weak. Only a weak person behaves like her. I said she was strong? No. Nice composition, though. We can call the magical education and research centres "Circle" – but the actual Circles (before Leliana's divinity) are prisons as purpose. Education centres for teaching children are good, prisons aren't for this purpose. Also, dangerous. They werent able to handle many dangerous situations but caused them, and just look at Uldred's mess (considered as a success, yes?) How many died here? Innocents... civilian (yes, mages are persecuted, but still civilian) – probably much more, than if they're not closed (of course, Greagoir let his Templars run... – by the way, who was able to tell, that the runaway Templars weren't possessed...) – only thing: nobody cares about, what happen behind the closed doors. They had no chance to run. But seems, their life no matter, but they're not people, just some-kind of dangerous things who carriers of a deadly infection. So where? As I said: in a magical education centre – we can call Circle, but the existing Circles aren't education centres. I already sketched the solution – and not only me. It's a problem, that not every little village has a mage? They are rare, yes, but with non-mages (with the Templars/Seekers' abilities) would be able to handle the situation. In the current system there are garrisons in every little "ratspit" village? Probably at least nearby... so: without the Templars (or whatever we called them) would be busy with abuse the imprisoned innocent and harmless ones – they would able to handle the real problems: accidents and crimes, working with mages for it.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 14:09:28 GMT
We can call the magical education and research centres "Circle" – but the actual Circles (before Leliana's divinity) are prisons as purpose. Education centres for teaching children are good, prisons aren't for this purpose. Also, dangerous. And just look at Uldred's mess? How many died here? Innocents... civilian (yes, mages are persecuted, but still civilian) – probably much more, than if they're not closed (of course, Greagoir let his Templars run... – by the way, who was able to tell, that the runaway Templars weren't possessed...) – only thing: nobody cares about, what happen behind the closed doors. They had no chance to run. But seems, their life no matter, but they're not people, just some-kind of dangerous things who carriers of a deadly infection. So where? As I said: in a magical education centre – we can call Circle, but the existing Circles aren't education centres. I already sketched the solution – and not only me. It's a problem, that not every little village has a mage? They are rare, yes, but with non-mages (with the Templars/Seekers' abilities) would be able to handle the situation. In the current system there are garrisons in every little "ratspit" village? Probably at least nearby... so: without the Templars (or whatever we called them) would be busy with abuse the imprisoned innocent and harmless ones – they would able to handle the real problems: accidents and crimes, working with mages for it. OK, thank you. At least some solution. Not ideal (but IMO there aren't ideal solutions to make all people happy), but still an answer.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 14:13:13 GMT
We can call the magical education and research centres "Circle" – but the actual Circles (before Leliana's divinity) are prisons as purpose. Education centres for teaching children are good, prisons aren't for this purpose. Also, dangerous. And just look at Uldred's mess? How many died here? Innocents... civilian (yes, mages are persecuted, but still civilian) – probably much more, than if they're not closed (of course, Greagoir let his Templars run... – by the way, who was able to tell, that the runaway Templars weren't possessed...) – only thing: nobody cares about, what happen behind the closed doors. They had no chance to run. But seems, their life no matter, but they're not people, just some-kind of dangerous things who carriers of a deadly infection.
So where? As I said: in a magical education centre – we can call Circle, but the existing Circles aren't education centres. I already sketched the solution – and not only me. It's a problem, that not every little village has a mage? They are rare, yes, but with non-mages (with the Templars/Seekers' abilities) would be able to handle the situation. In the current system there are garrisons in every little "ratspit" village? Probably at least nearby... so: without the Templars (or whatever we called them) would be busy with abuse the imprisoned innocent and harmless ones – they would able to handle the real problems: accidents and crimes, working with mages for it. OK, thank you. At least some solution. Not ideal (but IMO there aren't ideal solutions to make all people happy), but still an answer. No "ideal", "perfect" system exists. Only we can do, to strive for it – but that's important.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 14:18:28 GMT
No "ideal", "perfect" system exists. Only we can do, to strive for it – but that's important. stating the obvious, but whatever. Encore un fois: for slogan or epigraph will do very nice.
|
|
inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 29, 2019 14:25:13 GMT
Amelia parents and Isolde still deserve decapitation. Parents or no - they chose blood on their hands (Isolde) rather than send Connor to the circle. Stupid bitch even wasn't punished for that blood and didn'r regret at all. Systeme? I say - BLOOD. Yes, generally parents fearing for the child's safety deserve execution... wait, seriously? Isolde is an especially juicy bit though, I'd call her a zealot hypocrite. She's so frickin' pious that she cannot allow the public to know that her child, despite all her piousness, turned out to be something her religion hates most. And that brings me to what I perceive as the core issue - the "mages are evil corrupted unclean heathen monster shite" hate/fear preaching the Chantry does 24/7. If someone deserves to be executed, it is those hate preachers with their Divine entitlement. They serve no purpose. What about taking the circles out of the hands of racist zealots? Templar abilites are useful for policing magic, no question, but the Order's elitism, claims of divine entitlement and their "we know better!" attitude (despite their lack of wllingness to understand their charges) are utterly useless and detrimental. Yes, I've said all this before. I guess I'll post it again anyway.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 14:54:39 GMT
Oh, that't what caught my attention right away If someone deserves to be executed, it is those hate preachers with their Divine entitlement. They serve no purpose. 100 % agreement. Chantry is an aweful institution. Agree about those preachers: I can't make a step in the game w/o hearing their fanatic speech. Sentence - the chantry needs reforms, many reforms - still wait DA4 to see the result. And now this Yes, generally parents fearing for the child's safety deserve execution... wait, seriously? No need to wait, and yes, seriously. May seem bloody but for that time, exactly about those events: yes.. If things were different, there were changes you wrote about - it's another matter of course, but not in the DAU we have at the moment. If they prefer blood of innocents instead of sending their child to the circle (even not perfect), they endanger others (village, castle with Isolde matter). I see no excuse for that - parents or not. In Connor's case or other. It's simple: protecting many innocent people. Period. Again: as things are shown in DAU. It doesn't mean at all that I am some kind of blood-thirsty butcher. In Isolde case, in DAU for this time - I prefer saving many people instead of stupidity. Protecting your own child is of course "must be", but in those cases, in DAU for that time, parents's stupidity is not an excuse.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 14:56:50 GMT
Oh, that't what caught my attention right away If someone deserves to be executed, it is those hate preachers with their Divine entitlement. They serve no purpose. 100 % agreement. Chantry is an aweful institution. Agree about those preachers: I can't make a step in the game w/o hearing their fanatic speech. Sentence - the chantry needs reforms, many reforms - still wait DA4 to see the result. And now this Yes, generally parents fearing for the child's safety deserve execution... wait, seriously? No need to wait, and yes, seriously. May seem bloody but for that time, exactly about those events: yes.. If things were different, there were changes you wrote about - it's another matter of course, but not in the DAU we have at the moment. If they prefer blood of innocents instead of sending their child to the circle (even not perfect), they endanger others (village, castle with Isolde matter). I see no excuse for that - parents or not. In Connor's case or other. It's simple: protecting many innocent people. Period. Again: as things are shown in DAU. It doesn't mean at all that I am some kind of blood-thirsty butcher. In Isolde case, in DAU for this time - I prefer saving many people instead of stupidity. Protecting your own child is of course "must be", but in those cases, in DAU for that time, parents's stupidity is not an excuse. It is an excuse, and always will be. And not stupidity, but natural reaction. A system, what forces parents against their children, children against their parents, siblings against siblings is evil. No excuse to that system.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 15:04:52 GMT
It is an excuse, and always will be. it can be painful, very painful, but parents must have brains as well. So whom how. I understand,Catilina, trust me, that some parents will do everything to protect their child, even if it means endangering others. I just have another opinion and hope others won't label me some "butcher" because I would rather send my child to the circle to train (even if I know it's not perfect), rather than endanger people who trust me as well (in the castle, in the town). My son will get the training he needs, I may not see him again or from time to time, it will be painful, I know that, but it's my choice. Addd: don't forget, SVP, it's about DAU, with other rules and other things like magic, stupid chantry, circles, mad tamplars etc, etc etc.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 15:29:22 GMT
It is an excuse, and always will be. it can be painful, very painful, but parents must have brains as well. So whom how. I understand,Catilina, trust me, that some parents will do everything to protect their child, even if it means endengering others. I just have another opinion and hope others won't label me some "butcher" because I would rather send my child to the circle to train (even if I know it's not perfect), rather than endenger people who trust me as well (in the castle, in the town). My son will get the training he needs, I may not see him again or from time to time, it will be painful, I know that, but it's my choice. Well, if the Circle would some acceptable or bearable thing, Malcolm Hawke would send his children to the Circle. He didn't, like Thrask, a Templar. Both knew the Circle's real nature. The Circle isn't a place for education and training, it's a prison for first purpose. Most of them were terrible, some of them less terrible, but only one was acceptable: the Dairsmuid one – the Seekers annulled it, just because it was not that cruel as the others. I see the parent's reason to not send their children to that awful place. Also, I see the parent's reason, who send their children there, believe in the Chantry's dogma, and reassure themselves, it's not that bad, or perhaps, it good (the rumours probably were colourful, or someone not even heard what happens inside...). The point is: I don't blame anyone, just the chantry and the system. I didn't label you and I wouldn't. Seems the game supports your opinion better than mine. (I found it scary – like the Circle Mage origin is the scariest for me with it silent acceptance of the unacceptable – Anders in Awakening: "The problem is that mages are tolerated. barely. it’s like you need permission to be alive."; "The people fear what we can do, but to use that fear to bludgeon us into submission is wrong! And they do it with our blessing!" He's very right here, and that was I experienced when I played the mage origin. And I found it frightening.) And I don't really like the labels.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 15:52:33 GMT
Well, if the Circle would some acceptable or bearable thing, Malcolm Hawke would send his children to the Circle. He didn't, like Thrask, a Templar. Both knew the Circle's real nature. The Circle isn't a place for education and training, it's a prison for first purpose. Most of them were terrible, some of them less terrible, but only one was acceptable: the Dairsmuid one – the Seekers annulled it, just because it was not that cruel as the others. I see the parent's reason to not send their children to that awful place. Also, I see the parent's reason, who send their children there, believe in the Chantry's dogma, and reassure themselves, it's not that bad, or perhaps, it good (the rumours probably were colourful, or someone not even heard what happens inside...). The point is: I don't blame anyone, just the chantry and the system. I didn't label you and I wouldn't. Seems the game supports your opinion better than mine (I found it scary – like the Circle Mage origin is the scariest for me), and I don't really like the labels. Yeah, merci, I suppose. That's the thing. I just imagine: what would I have done in Isolde shoes but with MY OWN strict opinion? I would have still send Connor to the circle even if it is as you described it.Of course I will worry about my own child, BUT I understand that a child needs education or it could end up very bad. He is a child, knows nothing about magic, the only place at the moment is the circle. I would have tried to arrange visits or something else as a parent I think. But in Isolde shoes with my own head and brains I wouldn't have done what she did - I still think it is just fucking irresponsable to endanger others even if it can cost me - I HAVE to send my child to the circle.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 15:56:08 GMT
Well, if the Circle would some acceptable or bearable thing, Malcolm Hawke would send his children to the Circle. He didn't, like Thrask, a Templar. Both knew the Circle's real nature. The Circle isn't a place for education and training, it's a prison for first purpose. Most of them were terrible, some of them less terrible, but only one was acceptable: the Dairsmuid one – the Seekers annulled it, just because it was not that cruel as the others. I see the parent's reason to not send their children to that awful place. Also, I see the parent's reason, who send their children there, believe in the Chantry's dogma, and reassure themselves, it's not that bad, or perhaps, it good (the rumours probably were colourful, or someone not even heard what happens inside...). The point is: I don't blame anyone, just the chantry and the system. I didn't label you and I wouldn't. Seems the game supports your opinion better than mine (I found it scary – like the Circle Mage origin is the scariest for me), and I don't really like the labels. Yeah, merci, I suppose. That's the thing. I just imagine: what would I have done in Isolde shoes but with MY OWN strict opinion? I would have still send Connor to the circle even if it is as you described it.Of course I will worry about my own child, BUT I understand that a child needs education or it could end up very bad. He is a child, knows nothing about magic, the only place at the moment is the circle. I would have tried to arrange visits or something else as a parent I think. But in Isolde shoes with my own head and brains I wouldn't have done what she did - I still think it is just fucking irresponsable to endanger others even if it can cost me - I HAVE to send my child to the circle. We can just say, that Isolde was stupid to hire an apprentice – she had enough money for hire an experienced apostate, a mercenary etc. But Loghain sent Jowan here... so Loghain knew it as well... and abused the situation.
|
|
inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,712
Sonya
1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Sonya on Dec 29, 2019 16:04:09 GMT
Isolde was stupid to hire an apprentice – she had enough money for hire an experienced apostate, a mercenary etc. But Loghain sent Jowan here... so Loghain knew it as well... I know, and that makes Isolde stupide squared. It's cleasr, Isolde didn't want to part with Connor, would have hired a trainer (which IMO is also a bad move), but Isolde is Isolde + Loghain used that as well, you are right. Nevertheless, my opinion about "decapitation of irresponsable parents" is not popular I guess, but it's still an opinion, strict, clear, painful for DAU opinion.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 16:22:28 GMT
Isolde was stupid to hire an apprentice – she had enough money for hire an experienced apostate, a mercenary etc. But Loghain sent Jowan here... so Loghain knew it as well... I know, and that makes Isolde stupide squared. It's cleasr, Isolde didn't want to part with Connor, would have hired a trainer (which IMO is also a bad move), but Isolde is Isolde + Loghain used that as well, you are right. Nevertheless, my opinion about "decapitation of irresponsable parents" is not popular I guess, but it's still an opinion, strict, clear, painful for DAU opinion. As I said, I can understand that some parents sent their children to the Circle – and this is very sad, they don't really have much possibility, especially if they don't have money. Cruel world, cruel decisions. But I understand who doesn't send them to the Circle. And I'll not blame them because of the system doesn't allow a real solution.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Dec 29, 2019 19:55:24 GMT
The stuff on the screen-cap didn't give me the impression that she was capable of that.Then where? You're not suggesting home-schooling her in the middle of a city?No, it really didn't. She had problems anyway. Connor you can set at the templars' door; I haven't been denying that. But neither Meredith's story nor WoT's expansion on it make it sound like Amelia had a chance. 1. Just think about it: She was inherently frightened by people. And her magic manifested. Her parents weren't able to explain her, what happened to her. In normal case her parents would bring her to a mage, who can help. Who else? The Templars? They're not able to do that, just arrest the mages and watch constantly. In such an environment a child, like Amelia hardly can learn anything just fear. Given Amelia's condition, or more specifically her two conditions, where can she learn anything but fear?That doesn't actually answer the weird question, does it? Here's the thing: your position, as I understand it, is that something like the Circle but a whole lot gentler is necessary until the mage learns to stand on their own two feet. The problem is that I don't think Amelia would ever have been able to do that. And even if your system is as much gentler as is practical, I think Amelia's condition would have made it as unacceptable to her as the Circle. I don't think your system, or any other system that doesn't have a way of rewiring Amelia's brain, is going to solve this problem. What makes you so sure? You've read the screen-cap, right? What can the system do with a student who's unstable in addition to having magic? I'm not sure what we can conclude about Amelia based on that. Unless you're trying to argue that their shared bloodline had a propensity towards insanity? But I think that would help my case more than yours.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 23, 2024 21:46:37 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2019 20:13:01 GMT
1. Just think about it: She was inherently frightened by people. And her magic manifested. Her parents weren't able to explain her, what happened to her. In normal case her parents would bring her to a mage, who can help. Who else? The Templars? They're not able to do that, just arrest the mages and watch constantly. In such an environment a child, like Amelia hardly can learn anything just fear. Given Amelia's condition, where can she learn anything but fear?That doesn't actually answer the weird question, does it? Here's the thing: your position, as I understand it, is that something like the Circle but a whole lot gentler is necessary until the mage learns to stand on their own two feet. The problem is that I don't think Amelia would ever have been able to do that. And even if your system is as much gentler as is practical, I think Amelia's condition would have made it as unacceptable to her as the Circle. I don't think your system, or any other system that doesn't have a way of rewiring Amelia's brain, is going to solve this problem. What makes you so sure? You've read the screen-cap, right? What can the system do with a student who's unstable in addition to having magic? I'm not sure what we can conclude about Amelia based on that. Unless you're trying to argue that their shared bloodline had a propensity towards insanity? But I think that would help my case more than yours. I said, the system was absolutely NOT suitable to solve such a problem, but was able to cause more (in fact did it). We saw the consequences, so it's not a question. The question is, Amelia would have more chance to survive in a humane system? I'm sure, yes. Also, Meredith would have more chance to not go mad. But we never ever can be sure about something what not happened. We just can think about the chances. My point is, the MORE chance. That more chance is, they faced with a great problem, they sure can't handle, but... if the magic doesn't count as a "sin", they probably would ask someone who can help. I don't see what's your point...
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,492
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,492
Noxluxe
1,979
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Dec 30, 2019 0:16:31 GMT
No, it's because you have used emojis for the purpose of mockery and provocation, which is the definition of trolling. If you don't care how that weakens your argument, that's your problem. I have listened to your points. The only reason you're claiming otherwise is because things didn't go the way you wanted them to. You aren't the first person I've seen use that tactic and you won't be the last. Real-world judicial systems at least work to avoid creating the problems they're supposed to prevent. The Circle doesn't do that and refuses to do anything to fix that problem even as it's doing the exact opposite of its stated purpose. Torture is defined by the effect on the recipient, not by the person dealing it out. It also doesn't take modern science to notice that people subject to solitary confinement experience severe negative effects. Including Anders's mental issues that are directly responsible for turning Justice into Vengeance, while we have already seen with Wynne that such a situation is not inevitable. It is directly described as solitary confinement. Someone showing up to deliver meals doesn't count as human interaction, and being open enough for a cat to get in doesn't substitute for human contact. And once again, other Knight-Commanders consider this form of torture overly-permissive. That does not paint a good picture of what goes on in other Circles. I've repeatedly explained why your disease analogy doesn't work. You just don't like it. Just because people have been treated inhumanely in the past doesn't mean it was necessary to do so. It disturbs me that you think it was. That's not the definition of trolling, for one thing. For another, you clearly can't judge why someone uses any given emoticon. I've only ever used them to reflect my state of mind while writing the the text, not to be deliberately provocative. And no, again, I'm saying you aren't listening to my points because you aren't addressing them. I've pointed out where you haven't addressed them, and you still haven't addressed them. Your supposed long experience with rhetorical debates doesn't mean anything, this isn't a tactic, it's me responding to the way you're responding to me. Merely saying that something weakens someone's argument or that it's some silly tactic doesn't actually make it so. Real-world judicial systems accept that they do in fact indirectly cause some crime while working to prevent a lot more, because that's literally the best they can do. For all you know the Circles have tried plenty of different policies about separation of parents and magical children, and complete separation really is the best solution. They have been doing this for a thousand years. In which case you're just complaining that they haven't succeeded in creating a system where no children ever cause magical disasters, which we have no reason to believe is even remotely possible. How you define torture isn't relevant. We know for a fact that solitary confinement has been used for as long as there have been prisons, and it still isn't outlawed in most of the world, and even in the parts where it is it's still only illegal for minors. What you think people should and should not have been able to figure out about health and minds is also irrelevant. Even three-hundred years ago your "mind" was a spirit bestowed upon you by God, and any harm that came to it was a reflection of your own moral impurity rather than anything that had happened to you. In the case of someone being thoroughly damaged after a year of solitary confinement it was obviously just their own sins eating at them for so long in there, and now that they've atoned their spirits can start to heal. Good job all around. And clearly no, you haven't refuted the analogy. You just don't like it, and don't want to deal with it. I'm flabbergasted at that last point. You're utterly rejecting that it has ever been necessary to treat people inhumanely in order to protect others, which is patently false. Forget it "weakening your argument", you've apparently decided that you live in fairy-land, and are trying to look down your nose at me for existing out here in the real world where shit happens and its better to deal with it than to pretend it doesn't. I guess that kind of kills the whole conversation. My arguments are predicated on treating the things that happen in the game as if they were happening in a real world, and judging them accordingly. Yours are apparently predicated on holding them to a weird idealized standard that reality doesn't even meet, and pretending that that's not only how the world should work but also how it actually does.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,016
sageoflife
1,412
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Dec 30, 2019 2:49:24 GMT
No, it's because you have used emojis for the purpose of mockery and provocation, which is the definition of trolling. If you don't care how that weakens your argument, that's your problem. I have listened to your points. The only reason you're claiming otherwise is because things didn't go the way you wanted them to. You aren't the first person I've seen use that tactic and you won't be the last. Real-world judicial systems at least work to avoid creating the problems they're supposed to prevent. The Circle doesn't do that and refuses to do anything to fix that problem even as it's doing the exact opposite of its stated purpose. Torture is defined by the effect on the recipient, not by the person dealing it out. It also doesn't take modern science to notice that people subject to solitary confinement experience severe negative effects. Including Anders's mental issues that are directly responsible for turning Justice into Vengeance, while we have already seen with Wynne that such a situation is not inevitable. It is directly described as solitary confinement. Someone showing up to deliver meals doesn't count as human interaction, and being open enough for a cat to get in doesn't substitute for human contact. And once again, other Knight-Commanders consider this form of torture overly-permissive. That does not paint a good picture of what goes on in other Circles. I've repeatedly explained why your disease analogy doesn't work. You just don't like it. Just because people have been treated inhumanely in the past doesn't mean it was necessary to do so. It disturbs me that you think it was. That's not the definition of trolling, for one thing. For another, you clearly can't judge why someone uses any given emoticon. I've only ever used them to reflect my state of mind while writing the the text, not to be deliberately provocative. And no, again, I'm saying you aren't listening to my points because you aren't addressing them. I've pointed out where you haven't addressed them, and you still haven't addressed them. Your supposed long experience with rhetorical debates doesn't mean anything, this isn't a tactic, it's me responding to the way you're responding to me. Merely saying that something weakens someone's argument or that it's some silly tactic doesn't actually make it so. Real-world judicial systems accept that they do in fact indirectly cause some crime while working to prevent a lot more, because that's literally the best they can do. For all you know the Circles have tried plenty of different policies about separation of parents and magical children, and complete separation really is the best solution. They have been doing this for a thousand years. In which case you're just complaining that they haven't succeeded in creating a system where no children ever cause magical disasters, which we have no reason to believe is even remotely possible. How you define torture isn't relevant. We know for a fact that solitary confinement has been used for as long as there have been prisons, and it still isn't outlawed in most of the world, and even in the parts where it is it's still only illegal for minors. What you think people should and should not have been able to figure out about health and minds is also irrelevant. Even three-hundred years ago your "mind" was a spirit bestowed upon you by God, and any harm that came to it was a reflection of your own moral impurity rather than anything that had happened to you. In the case of someone being thoroughly damaged after a year of solitary confinement it was obviously just their own sins eating at them for so long in there, and now that they've atoned their spirits can start to heal. Good job all around. And clearly no, you haven't refuted the analogy. You just don't like it, and don't want to deal with it. I'm flabbergasted at that last point. You're utterly rejecting that it has ever been necessary to treat people inhumanely in order to protect others, which is patently false. Forget it "weakening your argument", you've apparently decided that you live in fairy-land, and are trying to look down your nose at me for existing out here in the real world where shit happens and its better to deal with it than to pretend it doesn't. I guess that kind of kills the whole conversation. My arguments are predicated on treating the things that happen in the game as if they were happening in a real world, and judging them accordingly. Yours are apparently predicated on holding them to a weird idealized standard that reality doesn't even meet, and pretending that that's not only how the world should work but also how it actually does. Yes, that is the definition of trolling. Don't try to change the meanings of words. I've addressed your points many times. The only reason you are claiming otherwise is because you don't want to acknowledge that your argument didn't get the results you wanted. You are claiming facts not in evidence. There is no indication that the Circles have tried different policies over the years. In fact, one of the main grievances of the mages is that the Circle refuses to consider alternate ideas or any form of internal change. Solitary confinement, especially for periods as long as a year, is considered a form of torture in the real world. That it is still legal presents a moral failing on the part of institutions that still use it. The effect that it had on Anders is an obvious contributor to why his possession by Justice ended so differently from Wynne's possession by Faith. And again, the Circle that engages in that form of torture is considered overly-permissive by the others. Yes, I have refuted the analogy. You just don't want to admit that it doesn't work. Just because things have been done in the past doesn't mean they were necessary. It is possible to quarantine people without being inhumane about it. It happened to my grandmother and her siblings multiple times in the days before modern vaccines. My grandfather lost two younger brothers because someone with whooping cough wasn't quarantined, but that does not mean that it would have been necessary to treat that epidemic's patient zero inhumanely. Your arguments are predicted on a failure to understand how people think, which is why all of your solutions will inevitably lead to further conflict due to the resentment of people who are being treated inhumanely for crimes they have not committed.
|
|