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Post by Iddy on Jul 13, 2018 12:21:25 GMT
I mean personality wise. I swear it feels like they're the same character, but under different circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 14:12:11 GMT
Maric was more stubborn and moody than Alistair.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 13, 2018 18:59:50 GMT
If we're talking Stolen Throne, I think Maric was just generally a bit more mature, and he was younger than Alistiar when it started. Yes, he did have his 17-year-old bratty, petulant bits, but in the end he stepped up and did what he had to do. Alistair needs to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. If you take the route to spare Loghain, he says he will take the throne just so he can execute the man (I just recently did this in my own DAO play). I'd say that the main difference is that Maric is gradually led into leadership, whereas Alistair has it suddenly thrust upon him.
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 13, 2018 21:14:32 GMT
If we're talking Stolen Throne, I think Maric was just generally a bit more mature, and he was younger than Alistiar when it started. Yes, he did have his 17-year-old bratty, petulant bits, but in the end he stepped up and did what he had to do. Alistair needs to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. If you take the route to spare Loghain, he says he will take the throne just so he can execute the man (I just recently did this in my own DAO play). I'd say that the main difference is that Maric is gradually led into leadership, whereas Alistair has it suddenly thrust upon him. But how much of that is nature, and how much nurture? Even in backwater rebel camps, Maric was raised and trained to become king. Even if he didn't like it, Maric lived with the expectations all his life. On the other hand, Alistair was a bastard, inconvenient and unwanted (or so he thought). Shoved from one home to next, pretty much everyone made it clear to Alistair that he had no place among the nobility, much less royalty. It was only because of the Blight, Cailan's death and the civil war that Aemon or the other nobles became desperate enough to even consider him a viable alternative to Anora. Whether or not Alistair truly made peace with that, or simply put on a brave face is up to the player.
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Post by phoray on Jul 14, 2018 13:23:54 GMT
Maric was never half so charming as Alistair. Like, why did the elf spy even fall in love with him other than being shocked by his "pure goodness" ? I feel like Maric was also seriously able to be lied to, and didn't harbor much anger outside of revenge for his mother's death.
Alistair would shock no one with his pure goodness, he's got flaws, and one of the glaring ones is hypocrisy regarding the events and decisions of Redcliffe. Maric would have knee jerked bawked at the death of Conner, but he would have stoicly accepted the kid had to die and never insist on blood magic or a trip to a place a day's ride/walk away.
Maric had a petulant time or 2, but at 17 when it all began, he was already acting like someone in his 20s or 30s. Look how he handled that deal with Flemeth- his honor oaths were iron clad, he never wavered.
Honestly, I think he would have been a bit boring as a video game character. Imagine if Blackwall had just been an obnoxiously-proud-of-order hero type with no hidden backstory who was just so solidly good with no flaws. I guess if he were hot and bi, people wouldn't care if he were boring and 1 tone? Part of Maric's interest lay in all the very real flawed morally grey characters around him that were held up against him.
Maric's first questionable act as this perfect man was at the very end of the book when he killed his own elven lover in a fit of pique, and it was heavily orchestrated for it to happen by none other than Loghain. He tempered Maric to become King by bathing them in the blood of, well, not an innocent, but maybe others who have read the book know what I mean. She'd changed and she'd already defected but Maric never knew before that moment.
Alistair is a baby, for good or ill, and Maric was never that. But both have in common a moment in their life where they become what they have to be- For Ferelden.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 14, 2018 21:25:56 GMT
phorayWould've much preferred that over the 'Blackwall' we got. Also hated that scene you mentioned. I don't get how people say that book makes Loghain more sympathetic.
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Post by phoray on Jul 15, 2018 0:18:56 GMT
Also hated that scene you mentioned. I don't get how people say that book makes Loghain more sympathetic. If by sympathetic, they mean they understand his motivations better, than I agree with them. If they mean, "Poor Loghain" I disagree.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 15, 2018 0:22:23 GMT
Also hated that scene you mentioned. I don't get how people say that book makes Loghain more sympathetic. If by sympathetic, they mean they understand his motivations better, than I agree with them. If they mean, "Poor Loghain" I disagree. I meant those who say it makes him more empathetic, not sympathetic. My apologies.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 15, 2018 10:53:59 GMT
Would've much preferred that over the 'Blackwall' we got. What does any of that have to do with Blackwall?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 15, 2018 16:02:00 GMT
Would've much preferred that over the 'Blackwall' we got. What does any of that have to do with Blackwall? Phoray used him as an example in their post.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 15, 2018 17:57:52 GMT
Phoray used him as an example in their post. Woops I guess my eyes just skipped over that part... lol.
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Post by Noxluxe on Jul 23, 2018 20:21:09 GMT
I definitely see where you're coming from, the chattiness and self-deprecation make Maric, Alistair and Cailan all seem very much alike. But there are subtle differences.
I read Maric as more determined. As in having any resolve at all whatsoever. He's also much more romantic than Alistair. He wants to fight on the front lines because it makes him feel more worthy of the people who believe in him and those who already gave their lives. Cailan fights on the front line because that's what heroes do in stories. Alistair fights on the front lines because it's all he thinks he's good for, because all his friends are already there and might need his help, and because it keeps him from having to make any important decisions in the meantime. Maric can't stand feeling useless and ignored. Cailan is a regular glory hound. Alistair would just love to fly under the radar if he could.
And Maric was a womanizer. He fell in true love with practically every beautiful woman who made him feel like the hero he felt people deserved, and tended to take them for granted if they stuck around long enough for him to get used to them. Cailan doesn't seem to have been very different. By contrast, Alistair would cling to any woman he respected who showed him an ounce of affection, and never dare look at another woman again for fear of pushing his luck.
Cailan got all of Maric's romanticism and charm, but none of the humility or uncertainty that allowed him to slow down and rely on wiser heads, which was what did him in at Ostagar. Alistair got all his father's insecurity and indecision with none of the high-mindedness or panache, but unlike his father and brother he's a steady worker who has learned to satisfy himself with the simple things in life, as long as he's left in peace.
Maric follows because he knows when he's out of his depth and that it's nothing to be ashamed of, as long as he's ready to lead when it falls to him. Alistair follows because thank god there's someone else willing to take responsibility so people won't have to see him fail miserably.
And besides all that, my impression is that Alistair is a much better warrior than either his brother or his father. He's more grounded and disciplined, better trained, way more experienced in both personal combat and skirmishes, and much better able to follow a plan and work with the people around him to get the job done right without unnecessary risk or flourishes. Maric and Cailan would both have gotten their asses kicked six ways to sunday if they ever thought to challenge Loghain to a duel.
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Post by melbella on Jul 24, 2018 1:14:20 GMT
Maric and Cailan would both have gotten their asses kicked six ways to sunday if they ever thought to challenge Loghain to a duel. Um, so does Alistair, at least in my games.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jul 24, 2018 2:27:01 GMT
Well, I never personally killed Maric’s mother. That’s one key difference. 😈
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Post by Noxluxe on Jul 24, 2018 5:56:32 GMT
Maric and Cailan would both have gotten their asses kicked six ways to sunday if they ever thought to challenge Loghain to a duel. Um, so does Alistair, at least in my games. Heh, mine too, at least in headcanon. Not that I ever actually let him.
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Post by phoray on Jul 25, 2018 7:45:52 GMT
Well, I never personally killed Maric’s mother. That’s one key difference. 😈 ... The Red Queen?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 25, 2018 8:25:42 GMT
Well, I never personally killed Maric’s mother. That’s one key difference. 😈 ... The Red Queen? I believe they are referring to the fact that one difference is their characters have never killed Moira Theirin, Maric's mother, but have killed Fiona, Alistair's mother.
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Post by eliscous on Jul 31, 2018 8:33:49 GMT
I think it a difficult to tell because they had a very different childhood. Alistair was raised with dogs. No one showed him any kind of respect / love or at least care. He was always considered a burden and unwanted (thanks to Isolde) . He never knew his mother or his father. He always felt alone and was put away (sent to the chantry) from the only place he could called home. He had a very sad childhood and was a abused child. His insecurity and selfdepreciation as an adult comes from his childhood. it is difficult to tell if he would had be the same with another childhood. You can see pretty clearly in DAO that if you care for him or show him at least an once of respect he will follow you to death. He is desesperatly looking for the love he was deprived as a child. That is why in my opinion he is not a womanizer even if he is handsome and attracts surely the woman, if he can find a woman who love him back he will cling to her and not push his luck any further. On the other side Cailan knew who his father and mother was even if he lost her as a child. He grew up surrounding by respect, care and also love (even if his father was not very present for him). We can see him as an adult more who he really is (not definied by a damaged childhood). what they have in common is tha both plays the silly but are in fact clever.
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Post by Serza on Aug 4, 2018 22:45:07 GMT
Also hated that scene you mentioned. I don't get how people say that book makes Loghain more sympathetic. If by sympathetic, they mean they understand his motivations better, than I agree with them. If they mean, "Poor Loghain" I disagree.
Oh, Loghain. Just after the book manages to paint him in a positive light that makes you doubt your choice of killing him right away, he does that and it's "Nope, to the chopping block you untrustworthy piece of shit!"
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