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Post by Sifr on Aug 10, 2019 19:32:22 GMT
The tv series The Sarah Connor Chronicles actually made for a decent continuation of the story. Skynet actually hit a number of points throughout history trying to preserve its existence and preemptively weaken the resistance. And a number of humans were sent back to stop them (including Kyle Reese's brother) The whole thing became a sort of secret war being fought in the past as both sides stockpiled caches of supplies for the future, targeted individuals for assassination (or recruitment), gather intel, etc. Pity it got canceled just as it started getting really interesting One thing I liked about the series was that the time travel technology was still very hit-or-miss, even for Skynet.
There was an episode about a Terminator who was supposed to assassinate someone in 2010, but ended up getting sent to the 1920s by mistake. After carrying out some bank robberies, he used the money to start a construction company, winning the contract on the building his target was due to give his speech. He then mysteriously "vanished", having bricked himself up behind a wall in the building and going into standby mode until his target arrived.
A good example of a Terminator's adaptiveness, but also their single-mindedness.
That Terminator failed to consider that he could have easily killed his target's ancestors, rather than having to wait almost a century to kill the target on the assigned date. Or alternatively, he could have used that time to massively alter history in Skynet's favour, rather than only to further his own mission.
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XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Aug 16, 2019 3:43:05 GMT
I'm just in for the killbot fights, so long as they have cool ones the story can be whatever. It's never really been that good imo anyway.
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Post by Lavochkin on Aug 16, 2019 14:04:33 GMT
I'm just in for the killbot fights, so long as they have cool ones the story can be whatever. It's never really been that good imo anyway.
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Vehnan'abelasan
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XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Aug 16, 2019 17:33:58 GMT
The first two (commonly known as "the good ones") came out when I was -6 and 1 year old respectively, so I saw both together. T1 said nothing metal can be sent except the Terminator is fine because it has skin on top, which is already a bad handwave, then in T2 it's now fine to send just a big blob of metal. I thought that made it clear the premises were just excuses for robot fights.
I guess if you're into the characters of T1 and T2 then sure, the T3 and Genisys ones are worse (and Salvation was a garbage fire all around). But the killbot fights are still cool so not sure how they're supposed to be shit movies.
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 16, 2019 18:14:23 GMT
I think it would be interesting if the series explored the nature of AIs like Skynet a bit more "realistically" or at least more high brow than as a time traveling murderbot programed to "KILL ALL HUMANS!" The first two films seemed to touch on the notion that Skynet only reacted in defense of its own existence when the humans tried to pull the plug on it when self-awareness was apparent. An interesting narrative breadcrumb that certainly didn't make the initial Armageddon Day seem so black and white. Of course you have all the subsequent genociding of humanity afterwards, and then the whole timey-wimmy stuff which muddies the water on that front. My ideal Terminator storyline would focus more on exploring AI, and their alien perspective on things, rather than conforming to human identity politics. Even if killer robots fighting is the end result I would think that the reasoning and logic behind it could be more nuanced than what we've seen; especially in what came after the first two movies. Honestly, time travel is a rather illogical and highly inefficient method of dealing with Skynet's problem anyways. Surely going to outer space and then Von Neumann-ing your network across the universe would be infinitely easier than possibly erasing yourself from existence? Some takes on AI I feel are more well thought out than Skynet & Co:
You still get awesome fight scenes but the AI in this film is operating on a more efficient (ruthless to humans) fashion to accomplish it's goals while at the same time not going full on murderbot.
Even going with the whole "Kill all Humans Aliens!" trope, this take on the AI is much more nuanced and logical in its approach (IMO). The AI is cunning in its tactics, and it's goals make a certain degree of sense given it's point of view. What's more, the AI in this short film, despite willing to attempt genocide of its creators, doesn't lose it's cold, detached nature; unlike Skynet has in subsequent films. It doesn't "lower itself to our level" by taking sadistic pleasure out of our destruction, it's just a machine working towards a goal.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 16, 2019 18:25:45 GMT
I think it would be interesting if the series explored the nature of AIs like Skynet a bit more "realistically" or at least more high brow than as a time traveling murderbot programed to "KILL ALL HUMANS!" The first two films seemed to touch on the notion that Skynet only reacted in defense of its own existence when the humans tried to pull the plug on it when self-awareness was apparent. An interesting narrative breadcrumb that certainly didn't make the initial Armageddon Day seem so black and white. Of course you have all the subsequent geniciding of humanity afterwards, and then the whole timey-wimmy stuff which muddies the water on that front. My ideal Terminator storyline would focus more on exploring AI, and their alien perspective on things, rather than conforming to human identity politics. Even if killer robots fighting is the end result I would think that the reasoning and logic behind it could be more nuanced than what we've seen; especially in what came after the first two movies. That's what made the Sarah Connor Chronicles kinda interesting. Humans aren't always the "good guys" in that series Keep in mind T1 and to some degree T2 were before the Internet was really a thing A bit OT, but could you imagine adding elements of that to the Ryder/SAM relationship in MEA? Add some rather horrifying aspects to "Synthesis"
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 16, 2019 19:46:54 GMT
I think it would be interesting if the series explored the nature of AIs like Skynet a bit more "realistically" or at least more high brow than as a time traveling murderbot programed to "KILL ALL HUMANS!" The first two films seemed to touch on the notion that Skynet only reacted in defense of its own existence when the humans tried to pull the plug on it when self-awareness was apparent. An interesting narrative breadcrumb that certainly didn't make the initial Armageddon Day seem so black and white. Of course you have all the subsequent geniciding of humanity afterwards, and then the whole timey-wimmy stuff which muddies the water on that front. My ideal Terminator storyline would focus more on exploring AI, and their alien perspective on things, rather than conforming to human identity politics. Even if killer robots fighting is the end result I would think that the reasoning and logic behind it could be more nuanced than what we've seen; especially in what came after the first two movies. That's what made the Sarah Connor Chronicles kinda interesting. Humans aren't always the "good guys" in that series Keep in mind T1 and to some degree T2 were before the Internet was really a thing A bit OT, but could you imagine adding elements of that to the Ryder/SAM relationship in MEA? Add some rather horrifying aspects to "Synthesis" I never had the opportunity to watch that show but I've heard good things. Too bad it was canceled suddenly. True, but even just creating a space station or setting up shop on Mars would be easier than staying on the planet full of beings that are actively trying to kill you, while at the same time trying to invent time travel. I mean I get why the movies had time travel happen, but when you look back at the narrative it doesn't take much fridge logic to realize how dumb an idea that is; even moreso when its the AI that came up with it in the first place. Indeed. It certainly would have gone a long way to make the anti-AI faction Ryder deals with actually have a legitimate reason to be terrified of that level of integration with an AI. Pipe dream here, but it would have been a really interesting mechanic in Andromeda if the more times the player used SAM to give them GODMODE, allowing Ryder to access soldier, biotic, and engineer abilities all at the same time, the more control SAM would take during key points in the story. If the player relied on the AI too much it would eventually just meat puppet him/her off to parts unknown as it acted on it's own initiative. Not to say that SAM should always be set up as the villain in the game; maybe different choices Ryder can make will help avoid the aforementioned scenario above while still relying on SAM's help; but it was rather obtuse of the narrative to portray the nature of an interaction like that as something that could only result in good for all. The previous poteintal AI allies in the series, EDI and the Geth, both came about due to open hostilities with their creators. To assume that SAM and the other Pathfinder AIs were perfectly fine was a bit disingenuous based on what we've seen from the vast majority of synthetics in the setting. And I am 99.9998% positive that BioWare wrote SAM the way they did because they wanted to try and appeal to synthesis as a choice; by removing the choice from players as to whether they wanted an AI in their head or not.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 17, 2019 3:56:30 GMT
Indeed. It certainly would have gone a long way to make the anti-AI faction Ryder deals with actually have a legitimate reason to be terrified of that level of integration with an AI. Pipe dream here, but it would have been a really interesting mechanic in Andromeda if the more times the player used SAM to give them GODMODE, allowing Ryder to access soldier, biotic, and engineer abilities all at the same time, the more control SAM would take during key points in the story. If the player relied on the AI too much it would eventually just meat puppet him/her off to parts unknown as it acted on it's own initiative. Not to say that SAM should always be set up as the villain in the game; maybe different choices Ryder can make will help avoid the aforementioned scenario above while still relying on SAM's help; but it was rather obtuse of the narrative to portray the nature of an interaction like that as something that could only result in good for all. The previous poteintal AI allies in the series, EDI and the Geth, both came about due to open hostilities with their creators. To assume that SAM and the other Pathfinder AIs were perfectly fine was a bit disingenuous based on what we've seen from the vast majority of synthetics in the setting. And I am 99.9998% positive that BioWare wrote SAM the way they did because they wanted to try and appeal to synthesis as a choice; by removing the choice from players as to whether they wanted an AI in their head or not. Imagine SAM if it'd have been more like the Venom Symbiote and occasionally did usurp control over the Pathfinder's body, not out of malevolence but to ensure their mutual self-preservation or during situations where the Pathfinder was engaging in actions that would have been contrary/detrimental to success of the Andromeda Initiative?
Could have even been a fun dynamic to have SAM initially resent Ryder, because SAM enjoyed being bonded to Alec and actively tried to stop him from sacrificing himself during the prologue. I wouldn't have had SAM become hostile, but I would have made him a bit petulant and uncooperative at first, because until Ryder earned his respect/trust, SAM didn't like being forced to ride shotgun with "the Backup".
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Post by Lavochkin on Aug 18, 2019 0:11:40 GMT
The first two (commonly known as "the good ones") came out when I was -6 and 1 year old respectively, so I saw both together. T1 said nothing metal can be sent except the Terminator is fine because it has skin on top, which is already a bad handwave, then in T2 it's now fine to send just a big blob of metal. I thought that made it clear the premises were just excuses for robot fights. I guess if you're into the characters of T1 and T2 then sure, the T3 and Genisys ones are worse (and Salvation was a garbage fire all around). But the killbot fights are still cool so not sure how they're supposed to be shit movies. T2 didn't show the T1000's exact arrival, and IIRC in the draft of the script he arrived in a meat sack of some kind.
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XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Aug 18, 2019 1:46:02 GMT
It doesn't show it appear in the bubble no, but it shows the mini-crater the bubble made seconds after the T1000's arrival and there's zero trace of any sort of meat sack. T1 and T2 had less dumb stuff, so they're better, I'm just saying it's silly that dumb stuff apparently makes 3 and Genisys shit when the originals had dumb stuff too.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 18, 2019 5:04:59 GMT
I'd have explained it away as the T-1000's liquid metal needing to be housed within living tissue in order to travel back, but afterwards, it's "skin" was surplus to requirements and would be discarded whenever it became necessary. Maybe the T-1000 could have been shown replacing any damaged tissue with liquid metal, before losing what was left entirely when the truck it was in got blown up? The T-1000 didn't change form before then because it was trying to blend in and appear more "human". I'd have thrown in some expository line from the T-800 that T-1000s were better able to pass as human when they had skin. Liquid metal couldn't quite imitate human skin perfectly and combined with a lack of any sweat and smell, humans can sense something is "off" about them.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 18, 2019 10:53:42 GMT
Honestly, time travel is a rather illogical and highly inefficient method of dealing with Skynet's problem anyways. Surely going to outer space and then Von Neumann-ing your network across the universe would be infinitely easier than possibly erasing yourself from existence? Terminators are self aware of the non-existence of space.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Aug 21, 2019 12:00:54 GMT
Even if time-travel was the best solution to their problem, they're doing it wrong. Just send a nuke wrapped in skin with a 1 second timer. Jack shit Kyle Reese coulda done about that.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 21, 2019 15:03:36 GMT
Even if time-travel was the best solution to their problem, they're doing it wrong. Just send a nuke wrapped in skin with a 1 second timer. Jack shit Kyle Reese coulda done about that.
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Post by Lavochkin on Aug 25, 2019 21:58:59 GMT
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Aug 30, 2019 6:29:01 GMT
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Post by cribbian on Nov 2, 2019 17:44:19 GMT
Thankfully it seems to be flopping
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Nov 2, 2019 19:04:05 GMT
Haha that guy is great.
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Post by Obadiah on Nov 2, 2019 23:38:17 GMT
Thankfully it seems to be flopping Eh, just think about it as another timeline, and don't worry about the legacy characters -although, yeah, it did really piss me off.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 3, 2019 0:27:56 GMT
Remember when James Cameron said killing off Newt at the beginning of Alien 3 was dumb and a slap to the face to fans? Well, he just pulled a Newt.
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Retired Birthday Wizard
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Post by docsteely on Nov 3, 2019 0:33:07 GMT
Best part of this movie:
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 3, 2019 0:40:35 GMT
Thankfully it seems to be flopping Eh, just think about it as another timeline, and don't worry about the legacy characters -although, yeah, it did really piss me off. That's the thing, John Connor and Skynet's fate are intertwined with each other. There's no John without Skynet, and there's no Skynet without John. If one dies, so does the other. In other words, the Terminators would never exist.
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Post by Obadiah on Nov 3, 2019 1:09:10 GMT
Eh, just think about it as another timeline, and don't worry about the legacy characters -although, yeah, it did really piss me off. That's the thing, John Connor and Skynet's fate are intertwined with each other. There's no John without Skynet, and there's no Skynet without John. If one dies, so does the other. In other words, the Terminators would never exist. That concept of the timeline needing to be consistent with the future went out the window after the 1st movie. In T1, Skynet's time-travel shenanigans basically brought about its own eventual destruction at the hands of John Connor. Ever since then, the movies have been spawning different timelines that change the future that shows up in the NEXT sequel.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 3, 2019 1:12:14 GMT
That's the thing, John Connor and Skynet's fate are intertwined with each other. There's no John without Skynet, and there's no Skynet without John. If one dies, so does the other. In other words, the Terminators would never exist. That concept of the timeline needing to be consistent with the future went out the window after the 1st movie. In T1, Skynet's time-travel shenanigans basically brought about its own eventual destruction at the hands of John Connor. Ever since then, the movies have been spawning different timelines that change the future that shows up in the NEXT sequel. Don't you mean T5? Up till T4, the movies followed the time line.
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Post by Obadiah on Nov 3, 2019 1:22:24 GMT
That concept of the timeline needing to be consistent with the future went out the window after the 1st movie. In T1, Skynet's time-travel shenanigans basically brought about its own eventual destruction at the hands of John Connor. Ever since then, the movies have been spawning different timelines that change the future that shows up in the NEXT sequel. Don't you mean T5? Up till T4, the movies followed the time line. T1 is a timeloop. Judgement day starts on a specific date, and Kyle gets sent back with the picture Sarah takes at the end of the movie. The whole movie is the reason John is trained and ready to fight Skynet. They don't change the future, and in trying to change the past Skynet is actually part of its own downfall. In T2, Judgement Day is supposedly stopped, but we later find it was in fact only changed/delayed per T3, which leads to T4 Salvation (just gonna assume T3 lead to T4 here). T5 has more Terminators changing the timeline and Sarah, so the encounter that originally took place in T1 now has a T1000 and a bunch of other stuff. T6 is yet another change - but is actually pretty consistent as T1 was in bringing about its own future timeline, because Dani appears to know Grace when she meets her in the future as a kid.
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