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Praise the Justicat!
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 29, 2018 14:30:36 GMT
The thing is we don't know the full story so it could have well worked well for EA. Have USD$50 million dollars of just premium versions of the game deferred to another quarter for revenue I think it might have worked just fine at the areas those would have been aimed at. Everything you said could be true, and my book is still priceless reading for BioWare. The marketing they did for the game was terrible. Nobody will argue that that paid any attention to it. Too little, too late, demo gave away too much without enough lead time for taking feedback and turning it into bugfixing. Research - yes, that's where most of the money went, on an aborted procedural NMS that was well beyond the little studio's skill. Total waste of money. $60 million, and know the marketing was limited and late, pointing to most of that money wasted in unused R&D. They should learn from that. Well, it DID feed some people so it wasn't totally useless.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 29, 2018 14:42:51 GMT
The marketing they did for the game was terrible. Nobody will argue that that paid any attention to it. Too little, too late, demo gave away too much without enough lead time for taking feedback and turning it into bugfixing. I was one of the guys who didn't pay attention to the marketing, beyond watching those AI videos. (I never do.) What should they have done differently, and why? "Demo" refers to the EA Access thing, right?
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 29, 2018 15:15:08 GMT
The marketing they did for the game was terrible. Nobody will argue that that paid any attention to it. Too little, too late, demo gave away too much without enough lead time for taking feedback and turning it into bugfixing. I was one of the guys who didn't pay attention to the marketing, beyond watching those AI videos. (I never do.) What should they have done differently, and why? "Demo" refers to the EA Access thing, right? There's no right answer here. If you listen to the reviewers who hated it, you'd never get the chance to play a game you might like. If you don't, you risk a game you might hate. Probably more E3 demos would be useful here. Otherwise, it's a month paid for a demo using Origin Access. It doesn't cost much but why should you have to pay to get the preview?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 29, 2018 16:26:56 GMT
The marketing they did for the game was terrible. Nobody will argue that that paid any attention to it. Too little, too late, demo gave away too much without enough lead time for taking feedback and turning it into bugfixing. I was one of the guys who didn't pay attention to the marketing, beyond watching those AI videos. (I never do.) What should they have done differently, and why? "Demo" refers to the EA Access thing, right? Mostly, it was very little news, very little marketing, and then in the 11th hour a full-court press that got some pretty hyped. I decided to wait for opinions here that mattered to me, and made an easy pass after their very low effort marketing. That's what I am describing there, others may feel differently but it is how I remember it. YMMV. To answer your question, they could have kept people apprised of development better and more often, without giving away the cow. And they could have done a beta earlier, closed, and got necessary feedback early enough in development to fix some of the glaring issues. Yes on the "demo". Too late to be helpful, obviously not too late to be incredibly harmful. That is where the worst damage, the meme making, etc, came from. They totally blew it in the initial release version of the game in many people's opinions, including mine.
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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Post by biggydx on Aug 29, 2018 18:48:19 GMT
The game took four years to develop, using a team of about 100 people and an approximately $100-million budget, including marketing and research. This part caught my attention the most. Holy shit is that bad for a game series as big as ME. I mean, we knew about the reallocation of developers to Anthem, but damn.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 29, 2018 20:03:05 GMT
I hadn't heard this. I guess I would have assumed there were a few people who felt this way, but I never would have guessed it was any kind of prevailing view. BioWare is in no immediate danger. Anthem could fail badly (which I seriously doubt it will) and the company would still exist. The success or failure of Anthem, itself, is very unlikely to have any effect on the future of Mass Effect. The only thing it would have influenced would be future multiplayer (if Mass Effect wasn't already directly responsible for Anthem's existence because of ME 3's multiplayer.) Technically, it will hurt BioWare on the long run if Anthem ends up bad. And people expected Anthem to fail and are reluctant to trust BioWare, because they've done a horrible job on Andromeda.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 29, 2018 20:10:20 GMT
I hadn't heard this. I guess I would have assumed there were a few people who felt this way, but I never would have guessed it was any kind of prevailing view. BioWare is in no immediate danger. Anthem could fail badly (which I seriously doubt it will) and the company would still exist. The success or failure of Anthem, itself, is very unlikely to have any effect on the future of Mass Effect. The only thing it would have influenced would be future multiplayer (if Mass Effect wasn't already directly responsible for Anthem's existence because of ME 3's multiplayer.) Technically, it will hurt BioWare on the long run if Anthem ends up bad. And people expected Anthem to fail and are reluctant to trust BioWare, because they've done a horrible job on Andromeda. It is very common on the internet for people to interpret their feelings and opinions as broad facts, but reality rarely conforms to them (except by coincidence.)
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 29, 2018 21:24:50 GMT
I was one of the guys who didn't pay attention to the marketing, beyond watching those AI videos. (I never do.) What should they have done differently, and why? "Demo" refers to the EA Access thing, right? Mostly, it was very little news, very little marketing, and then in the 11th hour a full-court press that got some pretty hyped. I decided to wait for opinions here that mattered to me, and made an easy pass after their very low effort marketing. That's what I am describing there, others may feel differently but it is how I remember it. YMMV. To answer your question, they could have kept people apprised of development better and more often, without giving away the cow. And they could have done a beta earlier, closed, and got necessary feedback early enough in development to fix some of the glaring issues. Yes on the "demo". Too late to be helpful, obviously not too late to be incredibly harmful. That is where the worst damage, the meme making, etc, came from. They totally blew it in the initial release version of the game in many people's opinions, including mine. I recall being laughed at over how little information we had on MEA, how that one teaser that had to sustain us for a year could have come from a Starcraft game for all it told us. Ah, memories...
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 29, 2018 21:53:10 GMT
The game took four years to develop, using a team of about 100 people and an approximately $100-million budget, including marketing and research. This part caught my attention the most. Holy shit is that bad for a game series as big as ME. I mean, we knew about the reallocation of developers to Anthem, but damn. I highly doubt that is accurate for how many people worked on the game, but you have to remember there are plenty of games were a person will only work on a couple of tasks and then be reallocated elsewhere for they are no longer needed. Here is a list of the game credits for Andromeda. Link to Moby Credits
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Post by river82 on Aug 29, 2018 22:46:02 GMT
The reporter probably took the approximate team size of Montreal and said "that's the Andromeda team".
The marketing budget is about right. The usual rule of thumb in game development is that development budget roughly equals marketing budget. So if 40 million US is spent on development, 40 million US is spent on marketing.
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Basquemercat117
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Aug 30, 2018 20:03:22 GMT
But i dont weigh as much as a duck, so i cant be made of wood, sooo there for......
The OP turned me into a newt!
did you get better?
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Guardian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Guardian on Aug 31, 2018 1:05:28 GMT
The OP turned me into a newt!
did you get better?
I did.....BURN THEM STILL!
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Basquemercat117
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Aug 31, 2018 6:55:22 GMT
I did.....BURN THEM STILL!
NOW THATS THE SPIRIT!!!!!
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 31, 2018 9:59:48 GMT
Technically, it will hurt BioWare on the long run if Anthem ends up bad. And people expected Anthem to fail and are reluctant to trust BioWare, because they've done a horrible job on Andromeda. It is very common on the internet for people to interpret their feelings and opinions as broad facts, but reality rarely conforms to them (except by coincidence.) Whatever you say.
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Aug 31, 2018 22:06:45 GMT
It is very common on the internet for people to interpret their feelings and opinions as broad facts, but reality rarely conforms to them (except by coincidence.) Whatever you say. The one thing that surprises me about that is Bioware makes a game that didn't do very well to expectation (still wasnt a flop) in 5 years yet Dice has released three games in the three years that have flopped or was riddled with controversy and yet no question of dice being closed.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 22:21:07 GMT
The one thing that surprises me about that is Bioware makes a game that didn't do very well to expectation (still wasnt a flop) in 7 years yet Dice has released three games in the three years that have flopped or was riddled with controversy and yet no question of dice being closed. BioWare for reasons of their approach is clickbait for any videos, Dice people will just ignore for the clicks aren't there. Otherwise you wouldn't see half the YouTube people out there making a 25min video about how one person leaving BioWare is the death of the studio while the standard industry churn is no big deal.
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Post by Vanishing Point on Aug 31, 2018 23:17:32 GMT
The one thing that surprises me about that is Bioware makes a game that didn't do very well to expectation (still wasnt a flop) in 5 years yet Dice has released three games in the three years that have flopped or was riddled with controversy and yet no question of dice being closed. DICE quickly churns out releases akin to Treyarch/Sledgehammer's assembly line approach to Call of Duty (8 Battlefield titles since 2010), which are heavily focused on the FPS market. In the post-2010 games climate, the targeted audience is all but accustomed to title turnover. Even one subpar Battlefield or Star Wars Battlefront entry only stings DICE's bottom line so much. The games are meant to be quickly developed, recycling slightly altered assets and gameplay mechanics from past entries. Meanwhile Bioware caters to niche audiences on a much slower schedule. Beyond the synchronized debuts of DA2, ME3 and SWTOR, Bioware's development cycles are protracted and meticulous. Just compare their post-2013 release history: in the time Bioware produced Inquisition and Andromeda, DICE was able to spit out 7 titles. By nature Bioware can't recoup development costs as easily as other studios. Besides TOR they don't have access to streams of continuous revenue from microtransactions or renewable subscriptions; they can't pump out games on a year-to-year basis to keep the same core audience engaged or compensate for middling quality. One bad product threatens to taint both consumer confidence and the rest of their limited output, without an influx of additional followers to replace people who renounce fan loyalty.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 1, 2018 3:12:13 GMT
The one thing that surprises me about that is Bioware makes a game that didn't do very well to expectation (still wasnt a flop) in 5 years yet Dice has released three games in the three years that have flopped or was riddled with controversy and yet no question of dice being closed. Um they didn't flop.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Sept 18, 2018 23:11:52 GMT
They have big plans for two IPs with only two studios available. None of those are Mass Effect. I dunno about you but even waiting until 2022 for confirmation of another Mass Effect would just kill all buzz for me.
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Basquemercat117
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Sept 18, 2018 23:54:31 GMT
The one thing that surprises me about that is Bioware makes a game that didn't do very well to expectation (still wasnt a flop) in 5 years yet Dice has released three games in the three years that have flopped or was riddled with controversy and yet no question of dice being closed. DICE quickly churns out releases akin to Treyarch/Sledgehammer's assembly line approach to Call of Duty (8 Battlefield titles since 2010), which are heavily focused on the FPS market. In the post-2010 games climate, the targeted audience is all but accustomed to title turnover. Even one subpar Battlefield or Star Wars Battlefront entry only stings DICE's bottom line so much. The games are meant to be quickly developed, recycling slightly altered assets and gameplay mechanics from past entries. Meanwhile Bioware caters to niche audiences on a much slower schedule. Beyond the synchronized debuts of DA2, ME3 and SWTOR, Bioware's development cycles are protracted and meticulous. Just compare their post-2013 release history: in the time Bioware produced Inquisition and Andromeda, DICE was able to spit out 7 titles. By nature Bioware can't recoup development costs as easily as other studios. Besides TOR they don't have access to streams of continuous revenue from microtransactions or renewable subscriptions; they can't pump out games on a year-to-year basis to keep the same core audience engaged or compensate for middling quality. One bad product threatens to taint both consumer confidence and the rest of their limited output, without an influx of additional followers to replace people who renounce fan loyalty. i agree dice has a completely different market and system as bioware, but bioware hasnt had a game that has put the company into jeopardy. they have had games that some what underscored in the critic world, but they either had another revenue source that kept the company afloat (MEA, ME3, SWTOR) or still sold decently enough to continue everything (ME3 and DA2).
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 19, 2018 3:10:24 GMT
They have big plans for two IPs with only two studios available. None of those are Mass Effect. I dunno about you but even waiting until 2022 for confirmation of another Mass Effect would just kill all buzz for me. They don't need full teams to work on a game to get it to the point of development. If anything once Anthem goes live it won't require a full studio to support it because the content delivery is is different then a game that is in full development and in crunch to finish. The other thing is BioWare is moving to a new building in the next few months so when the next Dragon Age game goes into full production the people that are responsible for initial development such as concept developers will have time for a new project.
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emissaryoflies
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by emissaryoflies on Sept 24, 2018 10:37:33 GMT
Scared to death that they might make a new Mass Effect if Andromeda is any indication of their "vision" for the future. Thankfully they'll be focused on Anthem's success, so maybe they can spare Mass Effect further embarrassment and put the "A" team on it next time when they eventually get around to it in 4 or 5 years. Either way they've probably got a few more 'failures' in them before they're in trouble.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,668
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 25, 2018 15:30:33 GMT
Scared to death that they might make a new Mass Effect if Andromeda is any indication of their "vision" for the future. Thankfully they'll be focused on Anthem's success, so maybe they can spare Mass Effect further embarrassment and put the "A" team on it next time when they eventually get around to it in 4 or 5 years. Either way they've probably got a few more 'failures' in them before they're in trouble. This is the thing that's largely ignored. If MEA had the "A team" involved in the first place, it probably would have been a huge success.
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Basquemercat117
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Posts: 182 Likes: 120
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ajew8887
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Sept 25, 2018 21:04:40 GMT
Scared to death that they might make a new Mass Effect if Andromeda is any indication of their "vision" for the future. Thankfully they'll be focused on Anthem's success, so maybe they can spare Mass Effect further embarrassment and put the "A" team on it next time when they eventually get around to it in 4 or 5 years. Either way they've probably got a few more 'failures' in them before they're in trouble. This is the thing that's largely ignored. If MEA had the "A team" involved in the first place, it probably would have been a huge success. to be honest i have to completely agree. i dont think its a case of "sacrificing mass effect for anthem" but more hey Montreal i know your new to this but we are going to give you a project to do and they completely failed at it. it more of a case of the novice not being able to deliver. But if MEA was given to the "A team" Edmonton MEA would have been alot better.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 25, 2018 22:36:40 GMT
This is the thing that's largely ignored. If MEA had the "A team" involved in the first place, it probably would have been a huge success. to be honest i have to completely agree. i dont think its a case of "sacrificing mass effect for anthem" but more hey Montreal i know your new to this but we are going to give you a project to do and they completely failed at it. it more of a case of the novice not being able to deliver. But if MEA was given to the "A team" Edmonton MEA would have been alot better. That is how I feel as well, but at the same time I think the senior leadership at BioWare failed to make sure that the Montreal team had the right people there to make sure they would succeed. Now my information is purely second if not third hand since it is from different articles around the internet, but it seems even the leadership at Montreal was new to being in the role of leadership so having a lot of new people combined with people new or newer to leadership roles I think was a mix that indicated that Andromeda was doomed from the start. It really made me wonder about how people from BioWare have said in the past "EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself" at least with my opinion on the situation BioWare Montreal fell into that category.
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