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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 15, 2018 13:27:26 GMT
Bioware games are ALL about the characters, not so much an original plot. And Dragon Age is such a rip-off of Wheel Of Time and other novels, barely even changing some of the names that I wonder how they never got sued... Mass Effect was also heavily influenced by various sci-fi shows. Bioware is NOT known for original stories. What they do exceptionally well is crafting an emotional narrative with awesome characters. That said, I'm totally FINE with Bioware copying stuff and remixing it into game format. They used to be really good at it!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 19:29:25 GMT
Exactly! I think DA2 felt really rushed, almost unfinished. And well, it is true that DAO's story is a little bit cliché but it was the way it was told and epic feel of it that I really enjoyed.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 15, 2018 23:17:42 GMT
Surprising... 'Tis all many have come to expect of you... Keep your expectations low.
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Post by Serza on Oct 16, 2018 7:06:44 GMT
Surprising... 'Tis all many have come to expect of you... Keep your expectations low.
Only pleasant surprises, yadda yadda, yeah, I've heard that before.
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Oct 17, 2018 4:23:22 GMT
VTM: Bloodlines
Love the lore of the clans and how they secretly control the world. But the clunky controls and terrible ai kill this game for me.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 17, 2018 8:38:27 GMT
It's hard to get my head around anyone actually disliking Dragon Age Origins - which, in my opinion, stands among the greatest video game ever made; but I guess it takes all sorts. If it wasn't for the story and well written characters the game would've ended up in a trashcan by now.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 17, 2018 8:48:10 GMT
It's hard to get my head around anyone actually disliking Dragon Age Origins - which, in my opinion, stands among the greatest video game ever made; but I guess it takes all sorts. Hehe, reminds me of some of those Amazon reviews for classic albums like Dark Side of The Moon, Unknown Pleasures, Aladdin Sane, Pet Sounds, Revolver etc. etc. etc. There's always one hipster guy who gives it a one star, saying it's boring, derivative, overrated crap, and if you want REAL music you should listen to [insert totally obscure band here]. It wasn't the gameplay that kept me playing - that's for sure. It was however the reason I couldn't be arsed to finish another playthrough.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 17, 2018 12:31:32 GMT
A game slipped my mind when I first posted. Alien Isolation: I couldn't finish this game because it was bad or anything like that. In fact its a fantastic game, but I can only describe my tapping out as being due to the fact that it was 2 Spooky 4 Me. A couple scares managed to get a few screams out of me, and I just couldn't handle it. But, with Halloween around the corner, I'm considering giving it another go and try to beat the game. Never played it, never will. It looks fantastic, but I just can't handle those kind of games. I'm a total wuss when it comes to games where you have to constantly sneak around and run away to avoid an unkillable antagonist, I just don't enjoy it - instead I just experience a horrible feeling of stress, fear and anxiety. There's enough of both in real life without adding a bunch more to something I do for enjoyment. If I really get into a game I find it hard to emotionally declutch myself from the game world. I guess that many other players are not like this and they have a kind of constant mental separation between themselves and the game, to the effect that part of their minds are constantly saying " who cares? It's not real, it's just pixels". For them avoiding the alien is no more stressful than avoiding the barrels in a game of Donkey Kong. In general I'm not a fan of survival horror at all, but I can just about handle things as long as it's possible to actually kill, or otherwise neutralise the things that are after me. I just don't like unkillable enemies. I don't like the feeling of not being in control. I can just about handle the Antlion Guardian section in Half Life Episode 2 - in which you're chased down narrow tunnels by this terrifying, alien-looking, brutish, roaring thing that you cannot kill. I'm completely on edge when I do it, and my heart's pounding in my chest - but it's fairly short and I can live with it - especially given the fact that I can kick it's ass a bit later in the game. I can handle Doom 3, scary as it is, because at least I can kill everything that attacks me. Alien Isolation though, or that last Resident Evil game? No thanks. I'll leave that for the non-wusses to handle. I agree, though I don't get stressed by it, I just think it's lame. While the unkillable threat can add to the horror, if the thing is unkillable simply because the protagonist can't fight for shit, that just annoys me. Funny that Alien got around to doing one of these, because I feel the same way towards teh original movie, or more specifically the purists who insist on exalting it and only it, and claim the sequel ruined their precious "perfect organism". Pro tip: it was never perfect, it just went up against space truckers and had help from a psycho android. You want a blend of action and horror done right, play FEAR. That's still my favorite horror game.
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Post by ergates on Oct 17, 2018 13:59:55 GMT
I'm happy to defend Dragon Age Origins' gameplay. I believe it to be excellent on all counts. Admittedly it might not be to everyone's taste - but there's no accounting for taste. Some people like to eat liver. Here we have a fairly open-ended system, beautifully simple, based upon just three iconic classes: Warrior, Rogue, Mage. The three together can form the 'holy trinity' of 'tank, healer, DPS'... but it's not absolutely necessary, because the almost-open-ended customisation options allow anyone who wishes to do so to completely 'bend' the traditional class roles, and go completely off piste, if they so choose. Mages can be tanks in heavy plate, Warriors can be nimble archers, Rogues can be tanks. The Mage class in particular is extremely versatile, and while not as open-ended and restriction-free as, say, Skyrim, DA:O's system still a thing of great beauty that allows me to express myself in any way I wish. The environment and corresponding story structure is also elegant and beautiful in it's simplicity. Small, compact zones that can be explored in the order of your choosing... and the order you choose has a direct impact upon the story. Each zone begins in a particular state, with a particular crisis to solve; and doing so unlocks new areas and concepts within the zone, until all become interconnected. Equipment starts small, with small focus, and small stats. You upgrade and replace as you progress, until the thrill and expectation of getting a new weapon or piece of armor adds to the overall and exploration pleasure of the game. Some of the big armor sets require a lot of effort, and in-game knowledge to acquire, you'll never get them on your first-ever playthrough, but this fosters the desire to replay the game, and get that complete Juggernaut, Effort, or Legion set for your party members. And then we come to the combat. A strategic pause-and-play system based upon four party members, each with a different role and focus. Pause the game, take stock of your surroundings and the threats you are faced with, plan your response accordingly, queue up your counter-moves, move your party into the optimal position and get each member doing his or her part. Use crowd control, anti-magic and debuffs where the situation allows. Fight vary from simple skirmishes, to highly-complex battlefield operations... and if you use all the talents and abilities at your disposal, plan ahead, and spec accordingly, you'll prevail. Complexity and finesse. It's a complex system, within a simple, elegant box. And that's just the mechanical gameplay. I've not even mentioned the role-play, the story with it's branching choices, the romance options, character interactions and dialogue. I love this game, and I'd be hard-pushed to find any real flaw with it. The only one I can really think of is that the crafting system is a bit laborious and poorly-implemented.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 14:24:37 GMT
I'm happy to defend Dragon Age Origins' gameplay. I believe it to be excellent on all counts. Admittedly it might not be to everyone's taste - but there's no accounting for taste. Some people like to eat liver. Here we have a fairly open-ended system, beautifully simple, based upon just three iconic classes: Warrior, Rogue, Mage. The three together can form the 'holy trinity' of 'tank, healer, DPS'... but it's not absolutely necessary, because the almost-open-ended customisation options allow anyone who wishes to do so to completely 'bend' the traditional class roles, and go completely off piste, if they so choose. Mages can be tanks in heavy plate, Warriors can be nimble archers, Rogues can be tanks. The Mage class in particular is extremely versatile, and while not as open-ended and restriction-free as, say, Skyrim, DA:O's system still a thing of great beauty that allows me to express myself in any way I wish. The environment and corresponding story structure is also elegant and beautiful in it's simplicity. Small, compact zones that can be explored in the order of your choosing... and the order you choose has a direct impact upon the story. Each zone begins in a particular state, with a particular crisis to solve; and doing so unlocks new areas and concepts within the zone, until all become interconnected. Equipment starts small, with small focus, and small stats. You upgrade and replace as you progress, until the thrill and expectation of getting a new weapon or piece of armor adds to the overall and exploration pleasure of the game. Some of the big armor sets require a lot of effort, and in-game knowledge to acquire, you'll never get them on your first-ever playthrough, but this fosters the desire to replay the game, and get that complete Juggernaut, Effort, or Legion set for your party members. And then we come to the combat. A strategic pause-and-play system based upon four party members, each with a different role and focus. Pause the game, take stock of your surroundings and the threats you are faced with, plan your response accordingly, queue up your counter-moves, move your party into the optimal position and get each member doing his or her part. Use crowd control, anti-magic and debuffs where the situation allows. Fight vary from simple skirmishes, to highly-complex battlefield operations... and if you use all the talents and abilities at your disposal, plan ahead, and spec accordingly, you'll prevail. Complexity and finesse. It's a complex system, within a simple, elegant box. And that's just the mechanical gameplay. I've not even mentioned the role-play, the story with it's branching choices, the romance options, character interactions and dialogue. I love this game, and I'd be hard-pushed to find any real flaw with it. The only one I can really think of is that the crafting system is a bit laborious and poorly-implemented. Thank the Maker! No better way to put it with words. I kept thinking how to explain how much I enjoyed the gameplay and why but I couldn't find any smart thing to say besides that it was excellent
I eat liver btw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by copper on Oct 17, 2018 17:09:12 GMT
As much as I enjoy Dragon Age Origins, I'd also agree that it's overrated when compared to the rest of the series. I prefer DA2's story for trying to break away from the generic save the world plot, even if it could have been implemented much better.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 17, 2018 17:26:17 GMT
Keep your expectations low.
Only pleasant surprises, yadda yadda, yeah, I've heard that before.
That's not what I'm try to say. And IDK why you being pissed off because I don't like Origins.
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Post by ergates on Oct 17, 2018 17:27:33 GMT
As much as I enjoy Dragon Age Origins, I'd also agree that it's overrated when compared to the rest of the series. I prefer DA2's story for trying to break away from the generic save the world plot, even if it could have been implemented much better. Yes, DA2's story is very interesting indeed. I love both games in fact, though I'll always love Origins the most. My first playthrough of DA:2 left me feeling out of sorts, the game felt very shallow in comparison to Origins, and from a pure mechanics perspective, I felt horribly limited - the fact that I was forced into a class role that could not really be altered, the fact that I was restricted on gear, no proper strategic overhead view, no skill trees. It all felt very dumbed down. I absolutely loathed the fact that it was not possible to unequip my weapon. It still bugs me to this day, though fortunately the issue is partially solved with addons. However.... we might be 'stuck in a role, but To paraphrase the Arishok, 'we are free to choose within that role'. Repeat playthoughs forced me to completely re-evaluate my original perceptions of the game. I came to realise that this game also has incredible depth, and rewards patient players. The spells and talents for each class are actually some of the best, and most fun to use I've encountered in any game. Levelling up is pure pleasure, because I'm faced with a choice of so many potentially cool things, and it's hard to be self-disciplined. I also came to understand that the game's personal, far ess high and remote story was pretty innovative. We rarely encounter such things in video games. Sure there's flaws. Act 3 is a total mess, and the railroading is pretty bad.. but I can forgive it this.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 18:02:58 GMT
DA2 had a very interesting story, but I think it was badly executed and poorly written. The combat was far to easy. I found it repetitive etc. I could go on, but there's no use in doing so because, in the end, I DID enjoy it pretty much, not as much as DAO tho.
However, I don't know if it is fair to compare both games,as they are of two different styles.
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Post by Serza on Oct 17, 2018 18:06:44 GMT
Only pleasant surprises, yadda yadda, yeah, I've heard that before.
That's not what I'm try to say. And IDK why you being pissed off because I don't like Origins.
Nope, you're misinterpreting that.
I guess we'll just chalk it up to text lacking the same nuances as speech.
Also, yes, our tastes are different. Nothing new there.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 17, 2018 20:26:20 GMT
DA2 had a very interesting story, but I think it was badly executed and poorly written. The combat was far to easy. I found it repetitive etc. I could go on, but there's no use in doing so because, in the end, I DID enjoy it pretty much, not as much as DAO tho. I REALLY struggled with a dagger rogue on hard. I died SO MUCH! Even after my tactical genius friend send me instructions on how to spec Hawke AND the companions, it wasn't exactly smooth sailing because I'm dumb... Mage and archer was way easier! I like DA2's combat the best. However, DAO had dual wield warrior!!! That build needs to come back in DA4! Bioware, pleeeeeease.
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Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 17, 2018 21:38:45 GMT
I never considered Dragon Age Origins a bad game. It's got some interesting concepts, some pretty interestingly well-written side content, and the gameplay itself (at least on my Xbox) is not very terrible. My only struggle is continuing the game after the Fall of Ostergar, mainly because I'm probably over-thinking the RPG elements of the game and constantly feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. I hope to try again very soon.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Oct 17, 2018 21:59:57 GMT
I never considered Dragon Age Origins a bad game. It's got some interesting concepts, some pretty interestingly well-written side content, and the gameplay itself (at least on my Xbox) is not very terrible. My only struggle is continuing the game after the Fall of Ostergar, mainly because I'm probably over-thinking the RPG elements of the game and constantly feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. I hope to try again very soon. I can understand that. Perhaps make a character with a very strong sense of what they believe in? For example I found it hard to justify an anti-mage run so I made a dwarf who was suspicious of magic. She believed the Templars so the tower was an easy choice, and was a warrior so believed the werewolves should be defending themselves etc etc. I like my characters to make the decision that fits them, I've even played Commander Shepard as a Grey Warden so you could play a defined character you already know. The most important thing for me is this - they make a choice that fits their history and personality. If that then goes wrong, if it was the 'bad' choice, then they have to live with that. There's no perfect solution and in fact, the mistakes make them more realistic. Embrace the bad choices and see where they take you, as long as your Warden had a firm basis to choose them in the first place.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 18, 2018 4:01:37 GMT
I never considered Dragon Age Origins a bad game. It's got some interesting concepts, some pretty interestingly well-written side content, and the gameplay itself (at least on my Xbox) is not very terrible. My only struggle is continuing the game after the Fall of Ostergar, mainly because I'm probably over-thinking the RPG elements of the game and constantly feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. I hope to try again very soon. I can understand that. Perhaps make a character with a very strong sense of what they believe in? For example I found it hard to justify an anti-mage run so I made a dwarf who was suspicious of magic. She believed the Templars so the tower was an easy choice, and was a warrior so believed the werewolves should be defending themselves etc etc. I like my characters to make the decision that fits them, I've even played Commander Shepard as a Grey Warden so you could play a defined character you already know. The most important thing for me is this - they make a choice that fits their history and personality. If that then goes wrong, if it was the 'bad' choice, then they have to live with that. There's no perfect solution and in fact, the mistakes make them more realistic. Embrace the bad choices and see where they take you, as long as your Warden had a firm basis to choose them in the first place. Great advice, though personally, I was struggling more along the statistical/strategic side of the RPG elements. As for the type of Grey Warden I would make, I feel it's kind of cliche to go with the human warrior, though I feel it would make sense to me as a newcomer to the world of Dragon Age since humans are the most straightforward of races with mannerisms and cultural stuff I can instantly recognize, and Warrior because honestly I'd rather stay alive and kick butt than panic over potions, range, and stealth. As for my character, I think the best situation for Origins would be a Grey Warden with a high sense of Justice and massive respect for the crown. Probably in the beginning he would be most eager for an opportunity to fight and prove himself, so he kind of gets over his head and into dangerous situations at quite a regular interval. Also, because in my version, he hasn't travelled much outside of Castle Cousland, he tends to get fascinated by other races and even the ideas of magic, at least the good kind.
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Oct 18, 2018 7:29:25 GMT
I think the point of this thread was to say the games one played and didn't live up to its expectation. People can agree or disagree, but it's up to personal taste and preference. Then again, this is a Bioware forum which already have a bias to Bioware games.
I've been playing DA2 and DAI again lately and love them. But when I tried to go back on DAO again, even with mods, I just plainly don't enjoy it. I enjoyed playing around with Dragon Age Keep more than booting up the actual game. It have flaws, underwritten characters, nonsense tropes and plots. It's not perfect and it's fine to see someone not liking these games for what it is. Same with KOTOR. I've finished both of these games years ago but I can't get excited to play through them again and gave up each time.
Back to the topic;Jade Empire.
I adore wuxia. My earliest memories is dad watching Brigitte Lin movies since I was a toddler. I pick up basic Cantonese and Mandarin as a kid so I could read chinese subtitles when there's no localization subtitles. I have collection of tv shows, movies, fan-translated ebooks, manhua with beautiful people in periodic clothing and flying kung fu and magic and stuff.
I'm saying all these because I came to the game with an expectation of it being Bioware's Wuxia RPG. Diverse eastern people inspired by real life Asians and stories inspired by diverse Asian history and mythology from north, south, east and west. Gameplay that catered to protagonist with spiritual inclination or with diverse martial artistry. Crafting beautiful stylistic swords, weapons or armor. A grand worldbuilding of far off lands. Everyone with their own beliefs and languages. Social class system consisted of noble houses and the scholars and the peasants and slaves and conflict arise from them. Mystical non-human races, monsters and deities. Forbidden tragic romances. Political intrigue with various kingdoms vying for power. Entire library of fantastic lore and amazing worldbuilding. Basically, a Bioware game. An eastern version of Dragon Age series that's maybe closer to Avatar The Last Airbender.
....and then I play the game... like wtf?
I won't elaborate further. I've talked about this game before, and rather than focusing on the critic of things that the game perpetuate, people always felt like I was attacking them, because I find something wrong with their childhood favourite.
Do-Not-Finish is also a thing with book community. Heck, I haven't finished Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia and I still call myself a fantasy fan. I dislike heavily Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey but I do read romance novels. Some people like stuff. Some people don't like stuff. That's life.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by ergates on Oct 18, 2018 11:19:41 GMT
DA2's melee Rogues live and die by cunning and critical strike. Cunning should always be your primary stat. Stack it as high as you can. For ever point put into dexterity, put two into cunning. Equip any and all items that boost critical strike chance and critical strike damage. Toward the latter stages of the game crit chance should ideally be at 100% and then some! With high cunning and high critical strike your Rogue will have such a high defense score that she will rarely be hit, even by flanking attacks. She'll be perfectly capable of soloing or off-tanking even some of the toughest standard enemies such as Pride Demons etc. Twin Fangs is a pure boss killer, and can generally one shot any normal-level enemy in the game, backstab should be used whenever it's available, followed up with Explosive Strike. Hit and run attacks using stealth against large groups can be devastating.
That's the other thing about melee Rogues, they aren't really effective if just left for the AI to control, even if you're good at assigning AI tactics. Your Rogue should always be manually controlled and positioned using the pause and play system.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Heimdall
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Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 18, 2018 13:52:17 GMT
Back to the topic; Jade Empire. I adore wuxia. My earliest memories is dad watching Brigitte Lin movies since I was a toddler. I pick up basic Cantonese and Mandarin as a kid so I could read chinese subtitles when there's no localization subtitles. I have collection of tv shows, movies, fan-translated ebooks, manhua with beautiful people in periodic clothing and flying kung fu and magic and stuff. I'm saying all these because I came to the game with an expectation of it being Bioware's Wuxia RPG. Diverse eastern people inspired by real life Asians and stories inspired by diverse Asian history and mythology from north, south, east and west. Gameplay that catered to protagonist with spiritual inclination or with diverse martial artistry. Crafting beautiful stylistic swords, weapons or armor. A grand worldbuilding of far off lands. Everyone with their own beliefs and languages. Social class system consisted of noble houses and the scholars and the peasants and slaves and conflict arise from them. Mystical non-human races, monsters and deities. Forbidden tragic romances. Political intrigue with various kingdoms vying for power. Entire library of fantastic lore and amazing worldbuilding. Basically, a Bioware game. An eastern version of Dragon Age series that's maybe closer to Avatar The Last Airbender. ....and then I play the game... like wtf? I won't elaborate further. I've talked about this game before, and rather than focusing on the critic of things that the game perpetuate, people always felt like I was attacking them, because I find something wrong with their childhood favourite. I’m a big fan of Jade Empire, but I would have loved a game like you describe. JE is better thought of as an homage to schlocky old kung fu movies rather than true wuxia stories or inspired by anything other than the vague idea of Chinese mythology. I think it’s a load of fun, but I can totally understand your feelings especially with those expectations. I’d like to see them do something like what you suggest though if they decide to revisit the idea.
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Feb 15, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by sgtreed24 on Oct 18, 2018 16:17:49 GMT
I'm always shocked by the praise DA2 receives around these parts. I think DA2 was utter shit. lmao It had some nice companions and some other cool NPCs like the Arishok but other than that, I didn't care for much of it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 16:21:47 GMT
I'm always shocked by the praise DA2 receives around these parts. I think DA2 was utter shit. lmao It had some nice companions and some other cool NPCs like the Arishok but other than that, I didn't care for much of it. I wouldn't say utter shit, that's harsh . But I'm definitely shocked by how many people prefer DA2 over DAO.
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Feb 15, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Over 9000
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Post by sgtreed24 on Oct 18, 2018 16:24:22 GMT
I'm always shocked by the praise DA2 receives around these parts. I think DA2 was utter shit. lmao It had some nice companions and some other cool NPCs like the Arishok but other than that, I didn't care for much of it. I wouldn't say utter shit, that's harsh . But I'm definitely shocked by how many people prefer DA2 over DAO. lol It might have been a bit harsh, but I didn't think it was good. I guess I prefer the classic hero story of DAO and the fact that you actually went to more than like 3 places the whole game.
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