guanxi
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PSN: guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Nov 3, 2018 6:41:09 GMT
Skills aside I just want the option to turn off SAM period as it’s annoying as hell and I hated it’s impact on the plot. Anything you can’t explain, or the protagonist can’t do either SAM did it or SAM do that - it was horribly lazy plot convent space magic which cheapened the narrative, got in the way of character development and player agency and offered no new insight into the subject matter of Artificial Intelligence. Mechanically, I’d rather have Kallo and Suvi coming in over the radio with news updates.
Rather than have SAM be the solution to every problem in future why not just have the squad discuss and come to solutions organically instead. If we have to have the f—kin thing then treat it as merely a perspective in the squad, give it some personality. Have it offer advice by all means but not in a vacum and don’t treat SAM like some kind of all knowing higher power as it makes the protagonist look like a simpleton. SAM how do I open this door? SAM how do I wipe my ass.
If we’re keeping it then the dynamic between it and the player needs to change... the only point in the narrative I felt SAM actually worked was when Ryder senior was barking orders at it, e.g. “SAM switch to Combat profile” as he was in control of the situation and using SAM assertively as a tool in his arsenal he wasn't completely dependant / subordinate to it like Ryder jr.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 12:27:12 GMT
Still doesn't resolve anything. Pathfinder Ryder clearly opted to reconnect with SAM at the end of ME:A. It's very unlikely that he/she would just change their minds about that and have the connection removed. The twin, however, has never really worked with SAM, so they could just choose for themselves not to develop any sort of dependency on it.
Two easy solutions. One, SAM could be more needed on Meridian once they realize it can't be cracked without SAM. Hence, SAM is removed except on the most basic level, like what every pathfinder team has. Alternately, "you" stay behind and your twin goes on to be pathfinder. Really, it's not a stretch to handle this.
Simply put, SAM is there and there won't be a history rewrite to get rid of it. Either find a solution or complain.
Well, since you're issuing ultimatums... My solution is to simply reset the skill points without any need for an elaborate explanation (like they did in ME3). A skill point reset and some alterations to the skill tree is something I pretty much expect to happen at the beginning of each new installment. It's a mechanic. I don't think the devs should bother with tampering with their story continuity just to make an excuse for resetting the PC's skill tree at the beginning of a game. I think it was a bad idea when they did it in ME2 and I still think it's a bad idea.
As for SAM, I think he can easily be modified to be less annoying to players. I also think he can be written into the story better, as opposed to being written out of it in order to merely pander to the players who were annoyed by him.
As for switching to the non-Pathfinder twin for the next game. I sort of believe they were setting us up for that with how they utilized the twin at the end of ME:A. I don't mind it as an idea because I'm prepared to play ME:A again if I want to stick with the same gender PC as I first played in ME:A. I think it would be interesting to develop the personalities and skills of both twins during the course of the series of games and then culminate in an end run that utilizes both twins and allows us to flip back and forth between them (a la AC Syndicate). It might also be nice to determine for myself which gender of twin suits the role of Pathfinder best and which gender suits the role of whatever role the non-Pathfinder twin might take in a future installment of the series. They could have, perhaps, set things up better by allowing us to freely choose the gender of the twin in ME:A as well (but they were like limited by budget since this would have required 2 male VAs and 2 female VAs to start with).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 15:03:58 GMT
I liked the old crew …
Disliked Liam a bunch, but that was the way he was intentionally (well) written and an exceptional job by the VA to bring Liam to life.
Cora could have been better written, reading the book brought a lot more of her character to life than the game, plus I thought the VAs for both Cora and Vetra sounded a bit old for the part. You can chalk Vetra up to being a Turian, but Cora's voice was just not the mid-twenties woman she was supposed to be.
But beyond that … I thought the crew was well done. I wouldn't want them or the Tempest to go away. Playing the "other" Ryder is not to abandon the original story, but to provide another storyline for the "other" sibling. So … both.
It's too much to ask. For it to be viable, a new MEA installment would have to pop out every two years … so four years between installments of the original protagonist's storyline, alternating with four years between installments of the "other" twin's storyline. And DLCs within an installment dealing with the opposite sibling. But all of it fitting within the overall story arc of MEA. For me, that would be a lot of fun. And whichever game world state you loaded up from the tapestry, would define what choices you made with your two Ryders. For me, that would be 14 unique story arcs … one for each character class and gender of Ryder …
I might not even have time to play future editions of MEAMP.
But the bottom line is … this idea won't work. BioWare doesn't have the resources to turn out a new MEA every two years, plus support Anthem, plus turn out a new DA installment every four years. The current trend … five or six years between installments is too long, but shrinking the timeline to two years doesn't seem realistic either.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 15:48:10 GMT
I liked the old crew …
Disliked Liam a bunch, but that was the way he was intentionally (well) written and an exceptional job by the VA to bring Liam to life.
Cora could have been better written, reading the book brought a lot more of her character to life than the game, plus I thought the VAs for both Cora and Vetra sounded a bit old for the part. You can chalk Vetra up to being a Turian, but Cora's voice was just not the mid-twenties woman she was supposed to be.
But beyond that … I thought the crew was well done. I wouldn't want them or the Tempest to go away. Playing the "other" Ryder is not to abandon the original story, but to provide another storyline for the "other" sibling. So … both.
It's too much to ask. For it to be viable, a new MEA installment would have to pop out every two years … so four years between installments of the original protagonist's storyline, alternating with four years between installments of the "other" twin's storyline. And DLCs within an installment dealing with the opposite sibling. But all of it fitting within the overall story arc of MEA. For me, that would be a lot of fun. And whichever game world state you loaded up from the tapestry, would define what choices you made with your two Ryders. For me, that would be 14 unique story arcs … one for each character class and gender of Ryder …
I might not even have time to play future editions of MEAMP.
But the bottom line is … this idea won't work. BioWare doesn't have the resources to turn out a new MEA every two years, plus support Anthem, plus turn out a new DA installment every four years. The current trend … five or six years between installments is too long, but shrinking the timeline to two years doesn't seem realistic either. Very true... but possible perhaps to develop one Ryder in ME:A and the other in ME:A2 and then have a Trilogy that wraps both characters together.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 3, 2018 16:57:24 GMT
However, Bio can just play gameplay/story segregation if they feel like it. Of course they can do that as well. Personally, other than the vocal interruption (which could be easily toned down), I had no problems with SAM being in the game. If they don't want to continue with him, I really don't see much of a need to trump up some sort of "loss of SAM" scenario to change the gameplay regarding the PC's skill set. On that front, they could also just decide to handle it like ME3 where they did not kill off the PC in order to reset skill points. The bottom line for me is that, regardless of why they did it, killing off Shepard at the beginning of ME2 was a lame idea that adversely affected the story continuity. They shouldn't repeat a similar mistake. Yeah I had no issues with Sam either and thought h3e was quiet a cool edition to the story how he can enhance your abilities in the field and whatever. Not quite as good as EDI but still interesting The simplest way to explain that Ryder goes back to a level 1 could be Sam get's a virus that ends up wiping his memory or something whilst scanning some remnant tech or something. Not saying that's what will happen but that's one way.
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Nov 3, 2018 16:59:17 GMT
This works well and could help BW move away from a crew that got a lot of complaints. I think any new crew would get the same complaints from the exact same places. If they were better written probably not. If the writing was the same quality, you might get the same number of complaints just from different quarters.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 3, 2018 17:02:27 GMT
I don’t think they should get rid of SAM, however I do wish he isn’t the person we ask for everything. Let him answer some stuff and our crew answer the rest. So Gil could answer technological things, Lexi biological things, Suvi scientific things, and SAM for the rest.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 3, 2018 17:44:00 GMT
I think any new crew would get the same complaints from the exact same places. Plus complaints from the people who liked the old crew and wanted to continue with them. I liked the original crew, but if we get a new spin that doesn't discard Ryder (main protag of MEA) and get the Twin instead, it all makes sense. Also, the Twin doesn't have the same connection to SAM as the main player in MEA. It actually ties things up in a neat bundle. Again, we can find solutions or just complain.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 3, 2018 17:49:15 GMT
Plus complaints from the people who liked the old crew and wanted to continue with them. I liked the original crew, but if we get a new spin that doesn't discard Ryder (main protag of MEA) and get the Twin instead, it all makes sense. Also, the Twin doesn't have the same connection to SAM as the main player in MEA. It actually ties things up in a neat bundle. Again, we can find solutions or just complain. The solution is simple: gameplay-lore segregation. Maybe do it so the higher your level in MEA the higher the level you start at in MEA2, similar to what they did for ME1 to ME2.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 3, 2018 17:58:20 GMT
If Ryder and the sam thing are to return for another game, I like Ryder to have the option to tell the thing to shutup. I don't need it to tell me it's cold when I know it's cold.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 3, 2018 20:01:44 GMT
If Ryder and the sam thing are to return for another game, I like Ryder to have the option to tell the thing to shutup. I don't need it to tell me it's cold when I know it's cold. Or at least have the option to silence. I can't imagine anyone would be upset about it.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 3, 2018 20:25:54 GMT
I think any new crew would get the same complaints from the exact same places. If they were better written probably not. If the writing was the same quality, you might get the same number of complaints just from different quarters. I didn't think the crew from Mass Effect 1 was that well written overall, but they were given a chance to grow and develop which is what I would want for this crew as well. They had conversations that stood out, but overall they felt like overused cliches most of the time. Outside of Shepard the one character I think was written the best was Tali, but at the same time her side story intersected the most with the main story of the game too.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 3, 2018 21:45:34 GMT
If they were better written probably not. If the writing was the same quality, you might get the same number of complaints just from different quarters. I didn't think the crew from Mass Effect 1 was that well written overall, but they were given a chance to grow and develop which is what I would want for this crew as well. They had conversations that stood out, but overall they felt like overused cliches most of the time. Outside of Shepard the one character I think was written the best was Tali, but at the same time her side story intersected the most with the main story of the game too. By today's standards I agree, but IMO at the time it was good. I don't think andromeda's characters were good by todays standards. I don't think they were bad, just fairly mediocre. I expect good from the standards of the time the game launched.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 3, 2018 22:08:56 GMT
I didn't think the crew from Mass Effect 1 was that well written overall, but they were given a chance to grow and develop which is what I would want for this crew as well. They had conversations that stood out, but overall they felt like overused cliches most of the time. Outside of Shepard the one character I think was written the best was Tali, but at the same time her side story intersected the most with the main story of the game too. By today's standards I agree, but IMO at the time it was good. I don't think andromeda's characters were good by todays standards. I don't think they were bad, just fairly mediocre. I expect good from the standards of the time the game launched. What makes a good character by today’s standards?
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Post by ahglock on Nov 3, 2018 22:38:16 GMT
By today's standards I agree, but IMO at the time it was good. I don't think andromeda's characters were good by todays standards. I don't think they were bad, just fairly mediocre. I expect good from the standards of the time the game launched. What makes a good character by today’s standards? Do more than hit the basics of what makes a character, or at least do it well. They all hit the basics, they have a personality, a voice, quirks, a look or style etc. But they are mostly fairly one note. None of them ever surprised me what I knew about them 3 seconds into knowing them, I could pretty much predict what they would do in the various scenes.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 4, 2018 17:21:19 GMT
I think any new crew would get the same complaints from the exact same places. Plus complaints from the people who liked the old crew and wanted to continue with them. Yup. See ME2 and 3. I loved them but man the griping about characters was deafening.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Nov 13, 2018 17:46:11 GMT
There was a way that this would not be an issue -unless you cheat the game. That option to me is that they leave it as it is but put a lock on rebuilds otherwise it would compromise the player: One rebuild to start with. Then you can buy more starting at a 250K credits. BUT if you do it gives SAM more control each time you respec. Your decisions become done automatic by the game the more you respec. By the end you can sit back and watch SAM in complete control of your character -assuming direct control.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Nov 14, 2018 4:15:14 GMT
Skills aside I just want the option to turn off SAM period as it’s annoying as hell and I hated it’s impact on the plot. Anything you can’t explain, or the protagonist can’t do either SAM did it or SAM do that - it was horribly lazy plot convent space magic which cheapened the narrative, got in the way of character development and player agency and offered no new insight into the subject matter of Artificial Intelligence. Mechanically, I’d rather have Kallo and Suvi coming in over the radio with news updates. Rather than have SAM be the solution to every problem in future why not just have the squad discuss and come to solutions organically instead. If we have to have the f—kin thing then treat it as merely a perspective in the squad, give it some personality. Have it offer advice by all means but not in a vacum and don’t treat SAM like some kind of all knowing higher power as it makes the protagonist look like a simpleton. SAM how do I open this door? SAM how do I wipe my ass. If we’re keeping it then the dynamic between it and the player needs to change... the only point in the narrative I felt SAM actually worked was when Ryder senior was barking orders at it, e.g. “SAM switch to Combat profile” as he was in control of the situation and using SAM assertively as a tool in his arsenal he wasn't completely dependant / subordinate to it like Ryder jr. Just turn SAM into another throw away AI that goes nuts and has to be destroyed with a wink and a nudge. Make it him a miniboss in the tutorial and throw some throwback lines like "You're just a machine." and "Blast your virtual ass" so we can have a semi serious battle with laughs.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 14, 2018 15:45:31 GMT
There was a way that this would not be an issue -unless you cheat the game. That option to me is that they leave it as it is but put a lock on rebuilds otherwise it would compromise the player: One rebuild to start with. Then you can buy more starting at a 250K credits. BUT if you do it gives SAM more control each time you respec. Your decisions become done automatic by the game the more you respec. By the end you can sit back and watch SAM in complete control of your character -assuming direct control.
Nah it'd be more like this :
Which would be cool if they made SAM more 'assertive' like that when you over rely on it too much. Go too far and SAM just puppets your meat sack off to parts unknown to fulfill it's esoteric agendas. As to the OP, yes, I would very much like to not have SAM in Andromeda 2; at least not anywhere close to the level of showcasing it received in the first game. If SAM does have to be involved with the story I would prefer to see the narrative explore the more 'alien' side to it; what with being a non-human AI and all; as well as having not being the fix-all solution to everything (like a more annoying version of Alexia).
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Post by NotN7 on Nov 16, 2018 4:09:48 GMT
I have to agree with Mikefest, to be honest I love a voice que when I'm engrossed in game play but Sam constantly reminding me of this or that tells me one of two things, the writers have no idea of what is engrossing when it comes to game play or they think my attention to details during game play is limited so I need to be constantly reminded that their world is....writ with danger. (still love the game)
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Post by setecastronomy on Nov 16, 2018 16:57:25 GMT
How about: At the beginning of MEA2, your twin is killed, but SAM leaves your brain to take over the body and becomes a squadmate?
"Zombie ScottSAM, get into cover!"
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 16, 2018 18:49:58 GMT
Playing as the twin would be an no-no for me. I’d rather the twin develop more as their own character, with clear differences in personality depending on which one you chose to play.
SAM could just as well be impaired or outright disabled right in the prologue through some big calamity that sets the conflict in motion, basically forcing the player to choose a class, then subsequently building upon bonus abilities to complement that build. The worst thing about SAM wasn’t the profiles system, but rather the incessant chiming in. That’s an easy fix - just not have SAM announce every change in weather or if Ryder has to go pee. A lot of the time, Ryder him/herself could have been guessing the information we gather from the scans directly. Surely the words on the screens on their omni-tool mean something, and that they’re trained to some extent to understand what the readout says.
I don’t know if I’d want a rehash of ME2’s destroy the first ship to make way for the second, though perhaps critically disabled and they’re stuck with making do with something else. Heck, I wouldn’t say no to a ragtag group with our Ryder as the leader working out of a big junker cargo ship in the ass-end of nowhere, at least for a spell.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 17, 2018 2:51:30 GMT
Playing as the twin would be an no-no for me. I’d rather the twin develop more as their own character, with clear differences in personality depending on which one you chose to play. SAM could just as well be impaired or outright disabled right in the prologue through some big calamity that sets the conflict in motion, basically forcing the player to choose a class, then subsequently building upon bonus abilities to complement that build. The worst thing about SAM wasn’t the profiles system, but rather the incessant chiming in. That’s an easy fix - just not have SAM announce every change in weather or if Ryder has to go pee. A lot of the time, Ryder him/herself could have been guessing the information we gather from the scans directly. Surely the words on the screens on their omni-tool mean something, and that they’re trained to some extent to understand what the readout says. I don’t know if I’d want a rehash of ME2’s destroy the first ship to make way for the second, though perhaps critically disabled and they’re stuck with making do with something else. Heck, I wouldn’t say no to a ragtag group with our Ryder as the leader working out of a big junker cargo ship in the ass-end of nowhere, at least for a spell. I agree that the chiming in constantly was the worst thing to experience about SAM, but I do think the profiles all powers thing with 3 active powers was the worst thing in the gameplay. It actively brought down the gameplay for me in both how overpowered you became and how limited I felt despite having access to everything. You can intentionally gimp yourself by like taking no passives and loading up on powers not in your build, or just not spending points or whatever but that kind of sucks. And gameplay wise I just don't want to start off as that big of a bad ass. The SAM talking part can just get fixed in writing whether its there or not.
And yeah I don't want to play as the twin it feels like they are taking choice away from you like that. And honestly if given the choice I always play males, I prefer not to play females though in games with a set protagonist I do. But in a game with character creation and a choice I just don't want to. Also would I get the looks of the twin i made in MEA1 if its from your MEA game that would make sense, but I just took the first custom one without changing it as I thought it was funny, I wouldn't want to be stuck with that even if I was okay with the Ryder swap.
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Post by 10k on Nov 23, 2018 18:05:28 GMT
This is me being optimistic, goodness knows I hate MEA and hope there is not a MEA2. But if we do, why does it have to be Ryder? Everyones knows he's boring and a push over. MEA2 with Ryder is not a great place to go after what happened to the series. Andromeda is pretty big (same as the MW). There are better stories to be told in Andromeda. Like a raider gang story. If it has been decided that in fact Shepard will not return, then I don't want an epic tell of Ryder. I want a small intimate story, sort of like what ME2 did. No more open world, no more Ryder, no more Sam period. Those were weak points in Andromeda, why highlight them in MEA2?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 23, 2018 19:15:04 GMT
This is me being optimistic, goodness knows I hate MEA and hope there is not a MEA2. But if we do, why does it have to be Ryder? Everyones knows he's boring and a push over. MEA2 with Ryder is not a great place to go after what happened to the series. Andromeda is pretty big (same as the MW). There are better stories to be told in Andromeda. Like a raider gang story. If it has been decided that in fact Shepard will not return, then I don't want an epic tell of Ryder. I want a small intimate story, sort of like what ME2 did. No more open world, no more Ryder, no more Sam period. Those were weak points in Andromeda, why highlight them in MEA2? Everyone knows that? I certainly didn’t. I found them more interesting than Shepard and we got three games with them, so I’d like at least one more with Ryder to at least wrap up their story. And I definitely don’t want to play as a raider, or for the next game to be like ME2 since that is easily the weakest game in the series so far in my opinion.
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