inherit
535
0
4,327
clips7
MiNd...ExPaNsIoN....
1,827
August 2016
clips7
Blackgas7
|
Post by clips7 on Aug 29, 2019 1:37:53 GMT
I wish there was more actual SAM character, and less: 'Go there, press that button, you are freezing, now you are not freezing, press that other button'. The concept of an intertwined AI allows for so much more than just open world quest mark reminders.
You make an excellent point here. I suspect some of the dislike of SAM is due to the constant narration (temperatures, mineral deposits, etc.). Curtail some of that and let SAM's personality flourish, it'd be a lot easier for more people to appreciate him. This....and stop making SAM a walking "ask google/puzzle solver" for Ryder...SAM..."open this door"....SAM "decode this".....SAM "remind me to blink my eyes so they don't dry out"...SAM "remind me to breathe in and out so i won't die".... ....Felt like Ryder couldn't do anything without SAM until late in the game....
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Aug 29, 2019 2:10:40 GMT
Indeed, Shepard managed to handle him/her self just fine for 1.75 games before EDI and Joker saved the Normandy 2. Ryder has to have his/her hand held the entire time up until the climax of the game.
Shepard felt more like a character capable of doing things on his/her own; and subsequently EDI felt like a proper supporting character in her own right. Ryder comes across like a helpless babe floundering in the dark, and because he/she is so dependent on SAM for everything it not only reduced his/her strength of character, but it also tuned SAM into a more annoying version of Alexia instead of his own supportive side character.
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,916 Likes: 24,214
inherit
214
0
24,214
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,916
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Aug 30, 2019 1:35:48 GMT
Ryder has to have his/her hand held the entire time up until the climax of the game. There was no SAM in the prologue on Habitat 7 (except for Alec) and Ryder did just fine. Remember, Shepard had omni-gel in ME1 - it unlocked everything. Where would Shepard be without Omni-gel? Probably still trying to get the Peak 15 computer back online.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 2:13:11 GMT
Indeed, Shepard managed to handle him/her self just fine for 1.75 games before EDI and Joker saved the Normandy 2. Ryder has to have his/her hand held the entire time up until the climax of the game. Shepard felt more like a character capable of doing things on his/her own; and subsequently EDI felt like a proper supporting character in her own right. Ryder comes across like a helpless babe floundering in the dark, and because he/she is so dependent on SAM for everything it not only reduced his/her strength of character, but it also tuned SAM into a more annoying version of Alexia instead of his own supportive side character. SAM's primary function was a translator while at the same time compiling an entire informational database from the ground up. How many times a day do you search for information on your PC, huh? Shepard OTOH was not trying to learn an entirely foreign language, since the universal translators were already in place and functioning. Nor was Shepard trying to decipher entirely foreign technology.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 22:30:36 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Aug 30, 2019 2:49:35 GMT
Ryder has to have his/her hand held the entire time up until the climax of the game. There was no SAM in the prologue on Habitat 7 (except for Alec) and Ryder did just fine. Remember, Shepard had omni-gel in ME1 - it unlocked everything. Where would Shepard be without Omni-gel? Probably still trying to get the Peak 15 computer back online. What? That's a easy puzzle. I blow at some of the observation puzzles in MEA, like i don't want to admit how long it took me to catch onto the puzzles where each object you needed to touch was effectively numbered.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 4:24:41 GMT
There was no SAM in the prologue on Habitat 7 (except for Alec) and Ryder did just fine. Remember, Shepard had omni-gel in ME1 - it unlocked everything. Where would Shepard be without Omni-gel? Probably still trying to get the Peak 15 computer back online. What? That's a easy puzzle. I blow at some of the observation puzzles in MEA, like i don't want to admit how long it took me to catch onto the puzzles where each object you needed to touch was effectively numbered. The first time I played through ME1, I didn't even realize there was a puzzle during the Noveria mission. The way they have it set it, the key you use to solve it instantly using Omnigel is the same button you hit to open the interface. I accidentally hit that button twice right away as the interface opened, and the puzzle was solved even before it was displayed.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 30, 2019 11:40:56 GMT
Ryder has to have his/her hand held the entire time up until the climax of the game. There was no SAM in the prologue on Habitat 7 (except for Alec) and Ryder did just fine. Remember, Shepard had omni-gel in ME1 - it unlocked everything. Where would Shepard be without Omni-gel? Probably still trying to get the Peak 15 computer back online. I've completed ME1 without using omni-gel. So where would Shepard be? On the Citadel having a drink after stopping Saren.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 30, 2019 11:42:34 GMT
Indeed, Shepard managed to handle him/her self just fine for 1.75 games before EDI and Joker saved the Normandy 2. Ryder has to have his/her hand held the entire time up until the climax of the game. Shepard felt more like a character capable of doing things on his/her own; and subsequently EDI felt like a proper supporting character in her own right. Ryder comes across like a helpless babe floundering in the dark, and because he/she is so dependent on SAM for everything it not only reduced his/her strength of character, but it also tuned SAM into a more annoying version of Alexia instead of his own supportive side character. SAM's primary function was a translator while at the same time compiling an entire informational database from the ground up. How many times a day do you search for information on your PC, huh? Shepard OTOH was not trying to learn an entirely foreign language, since the universal translators were already in place and functioning. Nor was Shepard trying to decipher entirely foreign technology.
At least on the computer I can walk away from it or shut it off. Why can't Ryder tell the thing to shut up?
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,874 Likes: 3,041
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,041
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,874
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 30, 2019 11:58:15 GMT
Even though the connection to SAM was more limited at the end of the game it was still there because when they didn't have the link I believe the joke was made that Ryder was dead again. So when they were opening the doors SAM might not have been doing the brunt of the work, but SAM was still in the background and at the same time damage was being done to cause Ryder's brain to hemorrhage. So it wasn't something that Ryder was able to do without any consequence without SAM. The way I have always looked at it is that SAM is a tool, but taking away a tool if you are dependent on it when preforming a task doesn't mean you can still do that task without great effort or even having to relearn how to do that task for that tool could have made the task easier then doing it without. Again, the PC does not lose any skills out of their skill tree when operating without SAM. He/she is not knocked down any levels. So, eliminating SAM for the purpose of resetting the Pathfinder's skill tree to Level 1 at the beginning of a sequel would not be lore consistent. In addition, the PC is still able to switch profiles on the fly during that final battle. That it takes some effort is obvious; but it doesn't take the Pathfinder back a Level 1 skill set. What they do is set up the twin as the Level 1 skilll set. We even play as the twin at Level 1 for a time at the end of ME:A.
My honest guess is that they planned to have us play as the non-pathfinder twin in ME:A2. t
ETA: Besides, SAM clearly indicates: "The Archon has SEVERED my link to your brother's/sister's implant..." SAM eventually works through the twin's implant and there is a connection between the twins that goes deeper than the implant. There is no implant connection between SAM and that Pathfinder during that final mission.
Lexi states that "SAM is linked to Pathfinder Ryder on a deeper level (whatever that means) and that trying to separate them could kill Ryder" and she was right! When the Archon severed the link between the Pathfinder and SAM the Pathfinder would have died if the twin hadn't reactivated the implant on the Nexus before getting captured by the Archon.
But the Pathfinder didn't need SAM to shoot all the kett and remnant in the final battle. SAM is basically a translator and makes working the remnant easier. I think Pathfinder could use the remnant without SAM but couldn't raise and/or control a fleet of remnant ships without killing her/him.
My guess: is that BioWare might put SAM in a robotic body and hopefully make him a crew member like Lexi, Suvi, Gil, and Kallo. IE he stays on the ship and helps out there, advances the storyline when needed, and where they can have Pathfinder Ryder and SAM engage in more philosophical debates about artificial intelligence, etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 14:49:18 GMT
Again, the PC does not lose any skills out of their skill tree when operating without SAM. He/she is not knocked down any levels. So, eliminating SAM for the purpose of resetting the Pathfinder's skill tree to Level 1 at the beginning of a sequel would not be lore consistent. In addition, the PC is still able to switch profiles on the fly during that final battle. That it takes some effort is obvious; but it doesn't take the Pathfinder back a Level 1 skill set. What they do is set up the twin as the Level 1 skilll set. We even play as the twin at Level 1 for a time at the end of ME:A.
My honest guess is that they planned to have us play as the non-pathfinder twin in ME:A2. t
ETA: Besides, SAM clearly indicates: "The Archon has SEVERED my link to your brother's/sister's implant..." SAM eventually works through the twin's implant and there is a connection between the twins that goes deeper than the implant. There is no implant connection between SAM and that Pathfinder during that final mission.
Lexi states that "SAM is linked to Pathfinder Ryder on a deeper level (whatever that means) and that trying to separate them could kill Ryder" and she was right! When the Archon severed the link between the Pathfinder and SAM the Pathfinder would have died if the twin hadn't reactivated the implant on the Nexus before getting captured by the Archon.
But the Pathfinder didn't need SAM to shoot all the kett and remnant in the final battle. SAM is basically a translator and makes working the remnant easier. I think Pathfinder could use the remnant without SAM but couldn't raise and/or control a fleet of remnant ships without killing her/him.
My guess: is that BioWare might put SAM in a robotic body and hopefully make him a crew member like Lexi, Suvi, Gil, and Kallo. IE he stays on the ship and helps out there, advances the storyline when needed, and where they can have Pathfinder Ryder and SAM engage in more philosophical debates about artificial intelligence, etc.
You pulled a post of mine from almost a year ago. My thoughts on this have probably changed a little since then. Robot body for SAM? Sure. I think if he remains linked to the pathfinder's headspace, those conversations will not be as frequent or perhaps we'll here them more as just thoughts in Ryder's own voice or perhaps banter involving squad mates... or perhaps we'll just be left with fewer "handholding" instructions and have to figure out mission sequences more for ourselves.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 14:50:07 GMT
SAM's primary function was a translator while at the same time compiling an entire informational database from the ground up. How many times a day do you search for information on your PC, huh? Shepard OTOH was not trying to learn an entirely foreign language, since the universal translators were already in place and functioning. Nor was Shepard trying to decipher entirely foreign technology.
At least on the computer I can walk away from it or shut it off. Why can't Ryder tell the thing to shut up? There's a mod for that.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 30, 2019 15:24:59 GMT
So it takes a mod to have Ryder to tell the thing to shut up? Why didn't the game provide the option for Ryder to tell the thing to shut up when the game was released?
|
|
inherit
2754
0
5,958
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,270
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 30, 2019 15:37:59 GMT
So it takes a mod to have Ryder to tell the thing to shut up? Why didn't the game provide the option for Ryder to tell the thing to shut up when the game was released? Not arty enough?
|
|
inherit
4578
0
5,014
griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
4,259
Mar 15, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
March 2017
griffith82
|
Post by griffith82 on Sept 3, 2019 15:30:59 GMT
So it takes a mod to have Ryder to tell the thing to shut up? Why didn't the game provide the option for Ryder to tell the thing to shut up when the game was released? Its Biowares game they wanted SAM a integral part of the game. I didnt mind it but I see why some might and so people made a solution. Not a big deal.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,254
themikefest
14,808
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 3, 2019 16:28:13 GMT
Being integral in a game doesn't mean saying you're cold every 10 seconds.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 3, 2019 16:45:32 GMT
EDI in ME 2: Integral but supportive to the plot; with the player still free to make up their own mind on how they feel about said AI.
SAM in MEA: The Macguffin of the narrative; with the player having no input on how they feel about the not-Alexia in their head.
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,916 Likes: 24,214
inherit
214
0
24,214
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,916
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Sept 4, 2019 1:18:48 GMT
the player still free to make up their own mind on how they feel about said AI. Really? In ME2, I could tell EDI right away to get the hell off my ship and what happened? Nothing. She's still there in ME3 and even if I didn't like her one bit in ME2, I'm still friendly with her right off the hop in ME3. The player is free to have any opinion of either EDI or SAM but the fact is the PC can't get rid of either one of them no matter how much you (or they) might want to.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 4, 2019 13:22:16 GMT
the player still free to make up their own mind on how they feel about said AI. Really? In ME2, I could tell EDI right away to get the hell off my ship and what happened? Nothing. She's still there in ME3 and even if I didn't like her one bit in ME2, I'm still friendly with her right off the hop in ME3. The player is free to have any opinion of either EDI or SAM but the fact is the PC can't get rid of either one of them no matter how much you (or they) might want to. Oh there's nothing the player can do to actually get rid of EDI I'll grant you, but Shepard still was able to express distrust of AI in general and EDI in particular. You couldn't turn EDI off, or giver her back to the Illusive Man like you could with Legion, but you could ignore her if you so desired; outside of mission critical plot points. Even in ME 3, when BioWare gave her a sexbot for a body, you could choose to not ever bring her on missions, or again to even talk to her outside of required narrative points. SAM on the other hand, you are stuck with. You can't ignore the voice in your head telling you about changes in temperature or coaching you on how to talk to people. At most Ryder can say they're uncomfortable with an AI being shoved into their brain, but everyone else (Lexi, Cora, etc.) practically ignores him/her on that point and keeps gushing about how amazing SAM is. What's more, the player can't even express a viewpoint on AI that the previous games let Shepard hold. Apparently being distrustful of AI of pointing at examples like the Geth, and what they did to the Quarians and at Eden Prime, is tantamount to racism in Andromeda; or at least the views expressed solely by flat-earther idiots given Ryder's auto dialogue about the anti-AI activists side quest on the Nexus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 17:26:24 GMT
Really? In ME2, I could tell EDI right away to get the hell off my ship and what happened? Nothing. She's still there in ME3 and even if I didn't like her one bit in ME2, I'm still friendly with her right off the hop in ME3. The player is free to have any opinion of either EDI or SAM but the fact is the PC can't get rid of either one of them no matter how much you (or they) might want to. Oh there's nothing the player can do to actually get rid of EDI, I'll grant you but Shepard still was able to express distrust of AI in general and EDI in particular. You couldn't turn EDI off, or giver her back to the Illusive Man like you could with Legion, but you could ignore her if you so desired; outside of mission critical plot points. Even in ME 3, when BioWare gave her a sexbot for a body, you could choose to not ever bring her on missions, or again to even talk to her outside of required narrative points. SAM on the other hand, you are stuck with. You can't ignore the voice in your head telling you about changes in temperature or coaching you on how to talk to people. At most Ryder can say they're uncomfortable with an AI being shoved into their brain, but everyone else (Lexi, Cora, etc.) practically ignores him/her on that point and keeps gushing about how amazing SAM is. What's more, the player can't even express a viewpoint on AI that the previous games let Shepard hold. Apparently being distrustful of AI of pointing at examples like the Geth, and what they did to the Quarians and at Eden Prime, is tantamount to racism in Andromeda; or at least the views expressed solely by flat-earther idiots given Ryder's auto dialogue about the anti-AI activists side quest on the Nexus. Why would Lexi and the others be upset with SAM being in Ryder's head. Most of what SAM is relaying to Ryder is through their private channel. In other words, the others don't know that SAM is telling Ryder whenever he leaves a heated area on Voeld, so why would they complain about it? Also, Lexi doesn't constantly gush about how great SAM is. She get's rather upset when SAM kills Ryder to free him/her from the Archon's trap. Drack certainly expresses strong feelings about not allowing them to put SAM into his head. Ryder's character is, by default, not anti-AI, probably because Alec and Ellen were building one. If Ryder was anti-AI, he/she would not have come along for the journey to Andromeda. That's also true for the majority of people on the voyage. If you didn't trust AI to some extent, you would not agree to go into 600 years of cryo while AI, working without any supervision, steered the ship. It should not be surprising then that anti-AI people within the Initiative are a "flat earther" minority viewpoint. The AI skeptics were left behind in the Milky Way.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 22:30:36 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Sept 4, 2019 22:27:14 GMT
Oh there's nothing the player can do to actually get rid of EDI, I'll grant you but Shepard still was able to express distrust of AI in general and EDI in particular. You couldn't turn EDI off, or giver her back to the Illusive Man like you could with Legion, but you could ignore her if you so desired; outside of mission critical plot points. Even in ME 3, when BioWare gave her a sexbot for a body, you could choose to not ever bring her on missions, or again to even talk to her outside of required narrative points. SAM on the other hand, you are stuck with. You can't ignore the voice in your head telling you about changes in temperature or coaching you on how to talk to people. At most Ryder can say they're uncomfortable with an AI being shoved into their brain, but everyone else (Lexi, Cora, etc.) practically ignores him/her on that point and keeps gushing about how amazing SAM is. What's more, the player can't even express a viewpoint on AI that the previous games let Shepard hold. Apparently being distrustful of AI of pointing at examples like the Geth, and what they did to the Quarians and at Eden Prime, is tantamount to racism in Andromeda; or at least the views expressed solely by flat-earther idiots given Ryder's auto dialogue about the anti-AI activists side quest on the Nexus. Why would Lexi and the others be upset with SAM being in Ryder's head. Most of what SAM is relaying to Ryder is through their private channel. In other words, the others don't know that SAM is telling Ryder whenever he leaves a heated area on Voeld, so why would they complain about it? Also, Lexi doesn't constantly gush about how great SAM is. She get's rather upset when SAM kills Ryder to free him/her from the Archon's trap. Drack certainly expresses strong feelings about not allowing them to put SAM into his head. Ryder's character is, by default, not anti-AI, probably because Alec and Ellen were building one. If Ryder was anti-AI, he/she would not have come along for the journey to Andromeda. That's also true for the majority of people on the voyage. If you didn't trust AI to some extent, you would not agree to go into 600 years of cryo while AI, working without any supervision, steered the ship. It should not be surprising then that anti-AI people within the Initiative are a "flat earther" minority viewpoint. The AI skeptics were left behind in the Milky Way. Because it's a AI, and it is in his head. Drak is the only one who showed any skepticism as you pointed out but I disagree that it would be rare. A lot pf people would want to go to Andromeda and might accept a AI as a needed risk since that is the only ship in town. A low ball estimate there should have been 20% of the population at least distrustful of AIs. And the player should have bee able to express more hostility to the idea, its not like he had to get along with his dad, so it being his dads project can be meaningless to them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 23:16:41 GMT
Why would Lexi and the others be upset with SAM being in Ryder's head. Most of what SAM is relaying to Ryder is through their private channel. In other words, the others don't know that SAM is telling Ryder whenever he leaves a heated area on Voeld, so why would they complain about it? Also, Lexi doesn't constantly gush about how great SAM is. She get's rather upset when SAM kills Ryder to free him/her from the Archon's trap. Drack certainly expresses strong feelings about not allowing them to put SAM into his head. Ryder's character is, by default, not anti-AI, probably because Alec and Ellen were building one. If Ryder was anti-AI, he/she would not have come along for the journey to Andromeda. That's also true for the majority of people on the voyage. If you didn't trust AI to some extent, you would not agree to go into 600 years of cryo while AI, working without any supervision, steered the ship. It should not be surprising then that anti-AI people within the Initiative are a "flat earther" minority viewpoint. The AI skeptics were left behind in the Milky Way. Because it's a AI, and it is in his head. Drak is the only one who showed any skepticism as you pointed out but I disagree that it would be rare. A lot pf people would want to go to Andromeda and might accept a AI as a needed risk since that is the only ship in town. A low ball estimate there should have been 20% of the population at least distrustful of AIs. And the player should have bee able to express more hostility to the idea, its not like he had to get along with his dad, so it being his dads project can be meaningless to them. ... and who's to say that the Initiative wouldn't assign those pegged as being skeptical about AI to being the last ones to be awoken? Your mythical 20% could still be all asleep in cryo. My point is that the population inside the Initiative has been filtered, not only for the purposes of who got to come along (which broke down a bit when the timetable for departure was pushed up); but also when determining who would be woken up first. We were introduced to some aspects how that filtering may have failed to eliminate certain elements from the population entirely, but we were clearly told such filtering criteria existed.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,874 Likes: 3,041
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,041
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,874
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 5, 2019 0:00:47 GMT
Lexi states that "SAM is linked to Pathfinder Ryder on a deeper level (whatever that means) and that trying to separate them could kill Ryder" and she was right! When the Archon severed the link between the Pathfinder and SAM the Pathfinder would have died if the twin hadn't reactivated the implant on the Nexus before getting captured by the Archon.
But the Pathfinder didn't need SAM to shoot all the kett and remnant in the final battle. SAM is basically a translator and makes working the remnant easier. I think Pathfinder could use the remnant without SAM but couldn't raise and/or control a fleet of remnant ships without killing her/him.
My guess: is that BioWare might put SAM in a robotic body and hopefully make him a crew member like Lexi, Suvi, Gil, and Kallo. IE he stays on the ship and helps out there, advances the storyline when needed, and where they can have Pathfinder Ryder and SAM engage in more philosophical debates about artificial intelligence, etc.
You pulled a post of mine from almost a year ago. My thoughts on this have probably changed a little since then. Robot body for SAM? Sure. I think if he remains linked to the pathfinder's headspace, those conversations will not be as frequent or perhaps we'll here them more as just thoughts in Ryder's own voice or perhaps banter involving squad mates... or perhaps we'll just be left with fewer "handholding" instructions and have to figure out mission sequences more for ourselves.
I was even thinking of putting SAM in the body of Remnant like an Observer or an Assembler, and not another sex bot (regardless if it's female or male) like EDI. It's also a way maybe to get more insight into the Jaadan, the Remnant builders.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,874 Likes: 3,041
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,041
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,874
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 5, 2019 0:23:43 GMT
Oh there's nothing the player can do to actually get rid of EDI, I'll grant you but Shepard still was able to express distrust of AI in general and EDI in particular. You couldn't turn EDI off, or giver her back to the Illusive Man like you could with Legion, but you could ignore her if you so desired; outside of mission critical plot points. Even in ME 3, when BioWare gave her a sexbot for a body, you could choose to not ever bring her on missions, or again to even talk to her outside of required narrative points. SAM on the other hand, you are stuck with. You can't ignore the voice in your head telling you about changes in temperature or coaching you on how to talk to people. At most Ryder can say they're uncomfortable with an AI being shoved into their brain, but everyone else (Lexi, Cora, etc.) practically ignores him/her on that point and keeps gushing about how amazing SAM is. What's more, the player can't even express a viewpoint on AI that the previous games let Shepard hold. Apparently being distrustful of AI of pointing at examples like the Geth, and what they did to the Quarians and at Eden Prime, is tantamount to racism in Andromeda; or at least the views expressed solely by flat-earther idiots given Ryder's auto dialogue about the anti-AI activists side quest on the Nexus. Why would Lexi and the others be upset with SAM being in Ryder's head. Most of what SAM is relaying to Ryder is through their private channel. In other words, the others don't know that SAM is telling Ryder whenever he leaves a heated area on Voeld, so why would they complain about it? Also, Lexi doesn't constantly gush about how great SAM is. She get's rather upset when SAM kills Ryder to free him/her from the Archon's trap. Drack certainly expresses strong feelings about not allowing them to put SAM into his head. Ryder's character is, by default, not anti-AI, probably because Alec and Ellen were building one. If Ryder was anti-AI, he/she would not have come along for the journey to Andromeda. That's also true for the majority of people on the voyage. If you didn't trust AI to some extent, you would not agree to go into 600 years of cryo while AI, working without any supervision, steered the ship. It should not be surprising then that anti-AI people within the Initiative are a "flat earther" minority viewpoint. The AI skeptics were left behind in the Milky Way.
Pathfinder Ryder and SAM have a private channel that is why they talk and no one can hear their comments.
The Nexus science team state that they've seen anti-A.I. stuff like graffiti and someone hacks the asari VI as a sock puppet to promote their agenda, and Knight and the Firefighters certainly don't love A.I. They come close to killing SAM and Knight even blows up a small part of the Nexus with quantum computers near or in hydroponics (where the plants that supply to air for most of the Nexus) to stop more A.I. from being created (that is if you help her son's implants) and if she's killed her son takes over the Firefighters (if she's not killed he joins the science team on Nexus I think). While a minority there are still people who hate unshackled A.I. (Knight said she thought the Initiative was using shackled A.I. and she was desperate to get out of the Milky Way because she was worried that Cerberus would be after her and her son), the turian member of the Firefighters states her sisters were killed by the geth on Citadel and Knight and her son were victims of Project Overlord as the reasons for their actions.
Drack said he fought in some of the wars against A.I. Now I don't know if he's talking about the Morning War between the quarians and the geth, that classified A.I. war/conflict that was in the archives in ME3: Citadel, another different one all together, or all of the above.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 24, 2024 22:30:36 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Sept 5, 2019 0:25:51 GMT
Because it's a AI, and it is in his head. Drak is the only one who showed any skepticism as you pointed out but I disagree that it would be rare. A lot pf people would want to go to Andromeda and might accept a AI as a needed risk since that is the only ship in town. A low ball estimate there should have been 20% of the population at least distrustful of AIs. And the player should have bee able to express more hostility to the idea, its not like he had to get along with his dad, so it being his dads project can be meaningless to them. ... and who's to say that the Initiative wouldn't assign those pegged as being skeptical about AI to being the last ones to be awoken? Your mythical 20% could still be all asleep in cryo. My point is that the population inside the Initiative has been filtered, not only for the purposes of who got to come along (which broke down a bit when the timetable for departure was pushed up); but also when determining who would be woken up first. We were introduced to some aspects how that filtering may have failed to eliminate certain elements from the population entirely, but we were clearly told such filtering criteria existed. By what criteria had the population been filtered, the worst people in the galaxy first? They filtered out people who don't like AI right, while failing in every other conceivable measure of filtering. Giving us winners like Addison and Spender. But hey apparently only like 8 people out of thousands dislike AI, from a galaxy that mistrusts AI and recently had Geth attack the citadel and nearly wipe out a human colony.
It was the designers being preachy about transhumaism, not a realistic take on how the mass effect universe looked at AI and how that would be represented among the colonists.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
Member is Online
9,172
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,826
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Sept 5, 2019 1:09:02 GMT
Bio games often bend over backwards to offer respect to the PC. ME:A's not an outlier.
But popular respect isn't something Ryder actually needed, since she had personal capability (some AI-granted) and institutional authority. So, what would a more realistic ME:A have looked like?
|
|