Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Jul 31, 2019 17:02:21 GMT
For the best match with Geralt I would have to say Yennefer. If we are talking about me personally in terms of romanceable characters then I would go with Shani. Honestly, though if I could pick one it would be Anna Henrietta, which says a lot since I love redheads. Got ambivalent feelings about her. I can't stand the thought of someone like her in power in a feudal society. Her recklessness terrifies me, and leaving Toussaint with her in a tomb makes me feel much better about the course of the whole DLC. ...But yeah, she's absolutely gorgeous and actually brave and adventurous and not nearly as manipulative or devious or compromised by ulterior motives as Triss or Yen. I too was a little disappointed by the lack of romantic subtext between her and Geralt after they work together so effectively to uncover the plot against her. Like with Cerys, she's an "ordinary" woman actually worthy of Geralt's respect who is mostly willing to work with him and listen to his experience without trying to lead him around by the nose, while still being dynamic and determined in her own right to protect and serve the people that rely on her as best she can to her own mind. I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed her character, all things considered, after her rather unimpressive showing in The Lady Of The Lake. Then again, those intervening six or seven years are certainly sufficient time for a nonmagical woman her age to come into her own. And while I've always thought long skirts were incredibly graceful on women, her tearing hers away to reveal tight riding pants was certainly an affecting moment. Even though I totally share Damien's horror at her impulsively ruining such a beautiful dress just to save a few minutes on chasing a cold trail.
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Silvery
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Post by Silvery on Aug 3, 2019 20:23:07 GMT
For the best match with Geralt I would have to say Yennefer. If we are talking about me personally in terms of romanceable characters then I would go with Shani. Honestly, though if I could pick one it would be Anna Henrietta, which says a lot since I love redheads. Got ambivalent feelings about her. I can't stand the thought of someone like her in power in a feudal society. Her recklessness terrifies me, and leaving Toussaint with her in a tomb makes me feel much better about the course of the whole DLC. ...But yeah, she's absolutely gorgeous and actually brave and adventurous and not nearly as manipulative or devious or compromised by ulterior motives as Triss or Yen. I too was a little disappointed by the lack of romantic subtext between her and Geralt after they work together so effectively to uncover the plot against her. Like with Cerys, she's an "ordinary" woman actually worthy of Geralt's respect who is mostly willing to work with him and listen to his experience without trying to lead him around by the nose, while still being dynamic and determined in her own right to protect and serve the people that rely on her as best she can to her own mind. I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed her character, all things considered, after her rather unimpressive showing in The Lady Of The Lake. Then again, those intervening six or seven years are certainly sufficient time for a nonmagical woman her age to come into her own. And while I've always thought long skirts were incredibly graceful on women, her tearing hers away to reveal tight riding pants was certainly an affecting moment. Even though I totally share Damien's horror at her impulsively ruining such a beautiful dress just to save a few minutes on chasing a cold trail. I have only played the Witcher 2 and 3 (and its DLC) but out of all the rulers in those game we met I would pick her despite her recklessness. Granted she also has the least power out of all of those since she rules a vassal state and not a kingdom but still. Plus despite her flaws she seems beloved by her subjects, no guarantees the next ruler would be as good. I agree on the lack of romantic subtext but I can see why Geralt would avoid her because of the whole Dandelion aspect. Plus, Geralt seems like he would mostly try to not get caught up in, uhh, those types of politics. Yeah, she does do a good job of listening to him until the end of the DLC when her emotions get the better of her and kind of drown out all reasoning. I have never read the books but from what I have gathered she comes across as kind of an airhead. Although like you said a lot can change in time, especially when you are a ruler. Totally agree with your last point. That scene totally made me fall for her. I have always like a well dressed woman, hence why I also really liked Josephine when I first saw her. One correction though. Damien wasn't the one horrified at that, it was her other two ladies-in-waiting. Plus, the dress does get fixed in the end so either Anna has done this before and knows it does not ruin the dress or she has really good tailors.
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Silvery
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Post by Silvery on Aug 3, 2019 20:54:19 GMT
And while I've always thought long skirts were incredibly graceful on women Also, just since it crossed my mind, I would love for something like Anna's skirt to be an option for mages in DA4. Especially if they are able to have better clothing physics ( and hopefully hair physics). While I have no problem with more battle mage options for those who want them, I would love a more casual look even like what Vivienne or Dorian get to wear. Or like what Yen/Triss wear since its a Witcher thread and we are talking magic users. Especially since something like that would make sense on a mage unlike a warrior or even a rogue. Statistically speaking it would be the worst defensive option in the game but you could gain a recharge bonus or something to counter it.
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 3, 2019 22:47:19 GMT
I have only played the Witcher 2 and 3 (and its DLC) but out of all the rulers in those game we met I would pick her despite her recklessness. Granted she also has the least power out of all of those since she rules a vassal state and not a kingdom but still. Plus despite her flaws she seems beloved by her subjects, no guarantees the next ruler would be as good. I agree on the lack of romantic subtext but I can see why Geralt would avoid her because of the whole Dandelion aspect. Plus, Geralt seems like he would mostly try to not get caught up in, uhh, those types of politics. Yeah, she does do a good job of listening to him until the end of the DLC when her emotions get the better of her and kind of drown out all reasoning. I have never read the books but from what I have gathered she comes across as kind of an airhead. Although like you said a lot can change in time, especially when you are a ruler. Totally agree with your last point. That scene totally made me fall for her. I have always like a well dressed woman, hence why I also really liked Josephine when I first saw her. One correction though. Damien wasn't the one horrified at that, it was her other two ladies-in-waiting. Plus, the dress does get fixed in the end so either Anna has done this before and knows it does not ruin the dress or she has really good tailors. Also, just since it crossed my mind, I would love for something like Anna's skirt to be an option for mages in DA4. Especially if they are able to have better clothing physics ( and hopefully hair physics). While I have no problem with more battle mage options for those who want them, I would love a more casual look even like what Vivienne or Dorian get to wear. Or like what Yen/Triss wear since its a Witcher thread and we are talking magic users. Especially since something like that would make sense on a mage unlike a warrior or even a rogue. Statistically speaking it would be the worst defensive option in the game but you could gain a recharge bonus or something to counter it. I have a hard time seeing the "good ruler" thing. I don't get the feeling that she has a particularly sharp sense for economics or any of the nitty-gritty of administering a small nation. It could just as well be that Toussaint has a really strong infrastructure inherited from a previous regime, buffered by Emhyr's policies, and she has some kickass ministers who do the actual work and who will still be there for her hopefully more careful successor. In my mind, her recklessness just makes it more likely that she's going to make a really impulsive decision that screws all that up, as she ultimately almost does in the DLC. Add to that that I find Toussaint's overly romantic and wishy-washy local attitude subtly creepy and potentially dangerous. We have some historical examples of entire nations that became swept up in lovely wishful thinking, and it never ended anywhere pretty. Her being a popular and charismatic ruler who encourages her people to think they live in fairyland literally makes me shiver thinking about it. Toussaint is one economic recession or international disaster away from tearing itself apart in confusion and denial or turning into something very, very ugly, and in my mind it's beautiful queen being publicly killed by her own naivete is a good first step to reintroducing them to the real world. But that absolutely isn't to say that she isn't an impressive woman in her own right. And yeah, I'm a sucker for any video game that features a clothing store. If I get to pick a perfect outfit for every in-game occasion, and modify them throughout the game to reflect the player character's journey, then I can forgive almost everything else. One of my joys these last few months has been replaying Fable 2 & 3 as a female hero, at every turn having to balance the practicality of going on adventures with the fact that women did not wear fucking pants in daily life in the period those games reflect. That and the lovely Monty Pythonesque humor. No, there definitely aren't enough glorious dresses for women in RPGs. And it's a huge wasted opportunity considering how gorgeous and stylish armored dresses and skirts can be made to look. You usually have to look to JRPGs for that, and they have a tendency to overdo it a bit.
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Silvery
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Post by Silvery on Aug 4, 2019 17:23:12 GMT
I have a hard time seeing the "good ruler" thing. I don't get the feeling that she has a particularly sharp sense for economics or any of the nitty-gritty of administering a small nation. It could just as well be that Toussaint has a really strong infrastructure inherited from a previous regime, buffered by Emhyr's policies, and she has some kickass ministers who do the actual work and who will still be there for her hopefully more careful successor. In my mind, her recklessness just makes it more likely that she's going to make a really impulsive decision that screws all that up, as she ultimately almost does in the DLC. Add to that that I find Toussaint's overly romantic and wishy-washy local attitude subtly creepy and potentially dangerous. We have some historical examples of entire nations that became swept up in lovely wishful thinking, and it never ended anywhere pretty. Her being a popular and charismatic ruler who encourages her people to think they live in fairyland literally makes me shiver thinking about it. Toussaint is one economic recession or international disaster away from tearing itself apart in confusion and denial or turning into something very, very ugly, and in my mind it's beautiful queen being publicly killed by her own naivete is a good first step to reintroducing them to the real world. But that absolutely isn't to say that she isn't an impressive woman in her own right. And yeah, I'm a sucker for any video game that features a clothing store. If I get to pick a perfect outfit for every in-game occasion, and modify them throughout the game to reflect the player character's journey, then I can forgive almost everything else. One of my joys these last few months has been replaying Fable 2 & 3 as a female hero, at every turn having to balance the practicality of going on adventures with the fact that women did not wear fucking pants in daily life in the period those games reflect. That and the lovely Monty Pythonesque humor. No, there definitely aren't enough glorious dresses for women in RPGs. And it's a huge wasted opportunity considering how gorgeous and stylish armored dresses and skirts can be made to look. You usually have to look to JRPGs for that, and they have a tendency to overdo it a bit. Yeah, that all makes sense. I can see you points for sure regarding her and Toussaint. The Fable games did have a lot of variety and styles when it came to what you could wear which I always liked. I can deal with the "women did not wear fucking pants in daily life in the period those games reflect" aspect since most medieval/fantasy inspired RPGs have enough realm of separation where I can hand wave it away unless it is something go for a somewhat historical element where it is not addressed, which was one of the little things that bothered me when I played AC:Syndicate recently. I also am a sucker for outfits, since I am big on a lot of character customization to begin with. That is one of the things I did enjoy about GTA Online or currently RDR2 Online in terms of all the different outfit options especially as a female character when you can dress anywhere from basically a man to very feminine and everything in between. I have not really played many JRPGs, only one I have ever really liked that I have tried is Resonance of Fate, but from what I have seen they do usually go very outlandishly feminine on the outfits a lot of the time. Also, since it is on topic I posted this yesterday regarding Orlesian Fashion in the DA universe.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 8, 2019 20:26:29 GMT
As a general rule, you can count on JRPGs to throw practicality and accuracy out the window in favor of flamboyance and outlandish-ness.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 10, 2019 22:36:24 GMT
And while I've always thought long skirts were incredibly graceful on women, her tearing hers away to reveal tight riding pants was certainly an affecting moment. Even though I totally share Damien's horror at her impulsively ruining such a beautiful dress just to save a few minutes on chasing a cold trail. The riding habits of women in the 1880s look like that. I'm not kidding, they wore trousers beneath the skirts. They ride side saddle btw.
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 11, 2019 12:48:15 GMT
The riding habits of women in the 1880s look like that. I'm not kidding, they wore trousers beneath the skirts. They ride side saddle btw. People really knew how to dress back then. Not like today. *lovingly strokes favorite sixpence hat* But yeah, that was one of my favorite moments in the DLC too. Like with Cerys, it must be such a joy to work with someone clever enough to appreciate Geralt's expertise while still bringing their own talents to the table. Geralt's average workday being what it is, I can't help but think that he enjoys those opportunities to show off and share his work, and how much people who aid him and actually manage to help must earn his respect compared to the dullards and helpless dithering cowards he's usually surrounded by on a job. Playing through the series again, I'm honestly amazed at how well CDPrjoect portrays it's quasi-medieval women of note. No silly girlpower. They're all sharp as a tack and determined adults who found legitimate ways to make a difference and make themselves relevant in a world that isn't very forgiving of that sort of thing. Shani saves lives every day with expert knowledge and tools, and anybody with sense respects her for that. Triss ruthlessly brokers power and information both to keep herself afloat and to protect and aid her dearest friends in their times of need. Yennefer is laser-focused and uses everything in her path to achieve her very specific and entirely human desires for real mortal prospects like a family and a stable setting to be with them in. And all their personal flaws are entirely believable too. And less admirable but no less impressive sorceresses like Phillipa cynically exploit the weaknesses of everyone around them to get their fingers on the levers of power because they really do hate what a crapsack world everybody lives in and thinks they can change it into something more sensible. Even outright villainous women like Syanna are impressive in how far they've come with just their cunning and their resolve. It's really no wonder poor little Geralt can't keep up with any of them.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 29, 2019 1:01:28 GMT
Triss in TW1 and TW2 and then yennifer in TW3. It just feels right to have yennifer in TW3.
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Post by cyberpunker on Apr 19, 2020 8:52:11 GMT
Geralt's Three True Loves of His Life 
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 2, 2021 9:17:43 GMT
I doubt anyone will read this post anytime soon, since activity is basically non-existent. However I'll just say that Yennefer can kick rocks. Between TW3 and the Netflix show I cannot see what anyone sees in the blasted woman. I detest people who lead other people around by the nose like a dog. Regardless of who or what they are. Such a mentality oozes obnoxious arrogance, which is all I see in Yennefer, someone whos only "nice" when it suits her. Shani was really the only woman in the trilogy (that Geralt can be with, kinda) that wasn't a crappy person. SO naturally she can't be a real long term option as a result. Because Witcher isn't allowed to have nice things at all. So I guess if the options are like the video above, and it's either Triss or Yen, then I guess it's Triss by default, because she at least does not constantly put Geralt down for basically no reason, and is, to me, a generally less toxic personality.
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Post by dawnold on May 3, 2021 17:41:24 GMT
I doubt anyone will read this post anytime soon, since activity is basically non-existent. However I'll just say that Yennefer can kick rocks. Between TW3 and the Netflix show I cannot see what anyone sees in the blasted woman. I detest people who lead other people around by the nose like a dog. Regardless of who or what they are. Such a mentality oozes obnoxious arrogance, which is all I see in Yennefer, someone whos only "nice" when it suits her. Shani was really the only woman in the trilogy (that Geralt can be with, kinda) that wasn't a crappy person. SO naturally she can't be a real long term option as a result. Because Witcher isn't allowed to have nice things at all. So I guess if the options are like the video above, and it's either Triss or Yen, then I guess it's Triss by default, because she at least does not constantly put Geralt down for basically no reason, and is, to me, a generally less toxic personality. I like women who will lead! Most of the time she means well even if we don't always agree. Yen's quite adorable when she frets and worries like a mother hen at Ciri; Triss acts more like a big sister and calls herself as such in the brief interaction they had in w3. Triss is always cheering for Geralt and never seems to get upset at him (for long) even if she disagrees with his action; Yen's approval is rare but it seems genuine to me when she likes what you do, and doesn't mince words or frowns when she disagrees. Also I can only speak for myself, but sometimes I get a good laugh when I purposely annoy Yen; some people look for smiles wheras I'm fishing for a scowl from the leading lady and of course the odd smirk which seems to beIie a restrained laughter. I dunno... they're both strong, smart, and scrumptuous but Yennefer seems more on my wavelength; Triss barely holds any interest for me though that may be due in part to her role not being quite as developed as Yen's in w3. Or maybe I'm just a weird sycophant that needs to please someone most of the time.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 4, 2021 5:58:22 GMT
I doubt anyone will read this post anytime soon, since activity is basically non-existent. However I'll just say that Yennefer can kick rocks. Between TW3 and the Netflix show I cannot see what anyone sees in the blasted woman. I detest people who lead other people around by the nose like a dog. Regardless of who or what they are. Such a mentality oozes obnoxious arrogance, which is all I see in Yennefer, someone whos only "nice" when it suits her. Shani was really the only woman in the trilogy (that Geralt can be with, kinda) that wasn't a crappy person. SO naturally she can't be a real long term option as a result. Because Witcher isn't allowed to have nice things at all. So I guess if the options are like the video above, and it's either Triss or Yen, then I guess it's Triss by default, because she at least does not constantly put Geralt down for basically no reason, and is, to me, a generally less toxic personality. I like women who will lead! Most of the time she means well even if we don't always agree. Yen's quite adorable when she frets and worries like a mother hen at Ciri; Triss acts more like a big sister and calls herself as such in the brief interaction they had in w3. Triss is always cheering for Geralt and never seems to get upset at him (for long) even if she disagrees with his action; Yen's approval is rare but it seems genuine to me when she likes what you do, and doesn't mince words or frowns when she disagrees. Also I can only speak for myself, but sometimes I get a good laugh when I purposely annoy Yen; some people look for smiles wheras I'm fishing for a scowl from the leading lady and of course the odd smirk which seems to beIie a restrained laughter. I dunno... they're both strong, smart, and scrumptuous but Yennefer seems more on my wavelength; Triss barely holds any interest for me though that may be due in part to her role not being quite as developed as Yen's in w3. Or maybe I'm just a weird sycophant that needs to please someone most of the time. I mean... who really knows man. Not a big deal either way lol. I've no interest in the "woman is always right" stereotype that society loves to perpetuate. Yen is only tolerable when you just bend over backwards to her every whim, which is not an equal partnership and not the type of lifestyle I can even comprehend someone willingly choosing personally. Sure, Triss crossed serious boundaries in the previous two games, and it's a pretty big deal. Hence why I'm typically more inclined to pick neither. However, Yen's and Triss's relationship towards Ciri? couldn't care less about that. Ciri is a grown woman, and can feel however she wants about them and the situation as a whole. But I'll be damned if I choose to remain with someone I consider fairly toxic just because Ciri sees her as Mom. That's not my problem. Triss is fully capable of leading I think. Shes just not walking around acting like a total Tool while doing it.
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Post by Noxluxe on May 22, 2021 23:23:34 GMT
I doubt anyone will read this post anytime soon, since activity is basically non-existent. However I'll just say that Yennefer can kick rocks. Between TW3 and the Netflix show I cannot see what anyone sees in the blasted woman. I detest people who lead other people around by the nose like a dog. Regardless of who or what they are. Such a mentality oozes obnoxious arrogance, which is all I see in Yennefer, someone whos only "nice" when it suits her. Shani was really the only woman in the trilogy (that Geralt can be with, kinda) that wasn't a crappy person. SO naturally she can't be a real long term option as a result. Because Witcher isn't allowed to have nice things at all. So I guess if the options are like the video above, and it's either Triss or Yen, then I guess it's Triss by default, because she at least does not constantly put Geralt down for basically no reason, and is, to me, a generally less toxic personality. I think TW1 Triss struck the right balance between 'enigmatic sorceress with her own ideas and resources and motivations who is smarter than Geralt' and 'mature woman who genuinely adores Geralt and wants him to be part of her life and to support him'. After that point, it felt like her and Yennefer's attitudes were both skewed a little too far in either direction in order to differentiate them, Triss becoming too much of a humble sweetheart and Yen too much of an obnoxious bitch when both of them were a bit closer to the center of that particular spectrum in the books. If they'd incorporated some kind of appreciation for Geralt having saved her from the Hunt at the cost of dedicating himself to their service into Yen's behavior in TW3, or regret at having abandoned him to slowly find his own wits instead of blaming him for taking comfort in the people who were actually there for him, then I might have felt more confident in her and Geralt's relationship still being on a better path after the end of the books. But nope. And then the Netflix series came out...  In that show she's just downright insufferable.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 23, 2021 19:54:55 GMT
I doubt anyone will read this post anytime soon, since activity is basically non-existent. However I'll just say that Yennefer can kick rocks. Between TW3 and the Netflix show I cannot see what anyone sees in the blasted woman. I detest people who lead other people around by the nose like a dog. Regardless of who or what they are. Such a mentality oozes obnoxious arrogance, which is all I see in Yennefer, someone who's only "nice" when it suits her. Shani was really the only woman in the trilogy (that Geralt can be with, kinda) that wasn't a crappy person. SO naturally she can't be a real long term option as a result. Because Witcher isn't allowed to have nice things at all. So I guess if the options are like the video above, and it's either Triss or Yen, then I guess it's Triss by default, because she at least does not constantly put Geralt down for basically no reason, and is, to me, a generally less toxic personality. I think TW1 Triss struck the right balance between 'enigmatic sorceress with her own ideas and resources and motivations who is smarter than Geralt' and 'mature woman who genuinely adores Geralt and wants him to be part of her life and to support him'. After that point, it felt like her and Yennefer's attitudes were both skewed a little too far in either direction in order to differentiate them, Triss becoming too much of a humble sweetheart and Yen too much of an obnoxious bitch when both of them were a bit closer to the center of that particular spectrum in the books. If they'd incorporated some kind of appreciation for Geralt having saved her from the Hunt at the cost of dedicating himself to their service into Yen's behavior in TW3, or regret at having abandoned him to slowly find his own wits instead of blaming him for taking comfort in the people who were actually there for him, then I might have felt more confident in her and Geralt's relationship still being on a better path after the end of the books. But nope. And then the Netflix series came out...  In that show she's just downright insufferable. That's the part that gets me the most. He sacrifices of himself to free her from the Hunt, loses his memory in the process. Her response is "Pfft, yea sure you did, you're just BSing cuz you banged Triss" Like, excuse me where you THERE?! NO! absolutely ungrateful, unfeeling wretch of a response. She didn't care enough to come find him in all those months he was wandering around being totally lost.
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Post by Guardian on May 23, 2021 21:10:57 GMT
However I'll just say that Yennefer can kick rocks. Between TW3 and the Netflix show I cannot see what anyone sees in the blasted woman. I detest people who lead other people around by the nose like a dog. Regardless of who or what they are. Such a mentality oozes obnoxious arrogance, which is all I see in Yennefer, someone whos only "nice" when it suits her.
THANK YOU!
I will NEVER understand this...obsession with Yenn; you've already listed why she is not the best choice so I see no reason to add anything further.
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Post by Noxluxe on May 23, 2021 23:32:37 GMT
THANK YOU! I will NEVER understand this...obsession with Yenn; you've already listed why she is not the best choice so I see no reason to add anything further. Book purists, feminazis, and people who have never been in a truly toxic or contentious relationship, and don't know what it feels like to wake up every morning next to a person you love knowing they're probably going to make you feel like a worthless shit at some point again today, if not as soon as they open their eyes. There, that's all the explanation you need.
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Post by Guardian on May 24, 2021 1:29:51 GMT
THANK YOU! I will NEVER understand this...obsession with Yenn; you've already listed why she is not the best choice so I see no reason to add anything further. Book purists, feminazis, and people who have never been in a truly toxic or contentious relationship, and don't know what it feels like to wake up every morning next to a person you love knowing they're probably going to make you feel like a worthless shit at some point again today, if not as soon as they open their eyes. There, that's all the explanation you need.
...And I thought I had low self-esteem issues.... I kinda feel sad for them in a way
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Post by Noxluxe on May 24, 2021 2:27:58 GMT
...And I thought I had low self-esteem issues.... I kinda feel sad for them in a way  Because they don't understand how miserable a toxic relationship can be?  I sure don't feel sad about that. But I think that lack of experience contributes a lot to the romanticization of love/hate "opposites attract" and generally unorthodox relationships in media. People imagine all the delicious feisty banter between clashing personalities and worldviews, and fail to consider what that looks like when you hit a rough patch and can't properly relate to or communicate with each other, but love each other too much to break it off, and how ugly that can get.
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Post by aglomeracja on May 24, 2021 11:32:21 GMT
It's been a while since I've read the books, but IIRC, relationship between Yen and Geralt is very toxic in the beginning, but they both mature as time goes by and end up in a pretty good spot. TW3 somewhat retcons this character development, probably to accommodate players who didn't read the books. Because of that, we encounter "early Yen" at first and if we decide to romance her, we get to see the same character development we did in the original saga.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jun 3, 2021 4:12:39 GMT
Team Fringilla! Funny. I was watching season 2 of The Boys, and this Stormfront quote stuck out to me. ![]()  Unknowable bitch. That describes book Yennefer to a tee. Game Yennefer has much better characterization, still a bitch though. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with her but my man Geralt is obsessed. I find a number of there interactions amusing, and generally prefer her to Triss. Both Yen and Triss are extremely manipulative, that's sorceresses for you. Sorceresses love Geralt, and Geralt loves Sorceresses. LOL.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 15, 2021 0:32:24 GMT
Book Spoilers Ahead!
Short Answer - Yennefer Long Answer - Neither
Makes a good point about none of them really being in the right mental space to be in a healthy relationship (including Geralt). Though in my opinion seeing as I don't believe the setting has psychologists, they won't be working through there individual trauma anytime soon. Haha. So toxic relationships it is!
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 4, 2022 16:50:34 GMT
Book Spoilers Ahead! Short Answer - Yennefer Long Answer - Neither Makes a good point about none of them really being in the right mental space to be in a healthy relationship (including Geralt). Though in my opinion seeing as I don't believe the setting has psychologists, they won't be working through there individual trauma anytime soon. Haha. So toxic relationships it is! Hmm. I don't hear any convincing arguments that Triss isn't in the right headspace to be in a healthy relationship by the time of the games, at least. Unlike Yen we can tell by her actions that she legitimately has developed beyond a lot of her flaws from the books. The whole "she refuses to tell Geralt important things about his past" idea always rang hollow to me. She tries to bring his past up in the very first cutscene in the first game, and gets shot down because he doesn't feel ready to hear it, nor does he ask her or Dandelion or Zoltan any meaningful or concrete questions about it for the entire rest of the game even though they're all pretty forthcoming. And when he finally asks in the third game and she immediately starts breaking things down for him, all the things she withholds except for that "grape" incident are things she can't possibly bring up without putting him on a direct collision course with the Lodge, probably meaning his death. With literally nothing to gain except airing out her dirty laundry, since Yen is dead so far as she knows and Ciri is out of their hands anyway. Almost nobody would have made the decision to tell him about those things in her shoes, so I sure don't blame her for it. And if their relationship starts at the beginning of the first game then he's the one to come on to her while she's vulnerable, not the other way around. Have a hard time seeing that as being manipulative. Keeping the fact that she once seduced him under a magical influence secret is admittedly scummy, though I don't know that that's really seen as anywhere near as egregious a crime in the Northern Kingdoms as the same kind of violation would be in modern Western society. It's an objectively horrible action, sure, and Triss is certainly sensitive and intelligent enough to ought to at least feel ashamed of it in retrospect years later. But expecting her or anyone else to recognize its horror for what it really is feels like value transplantation to me. The idea that you have an inviolable right to command your own body and your own feelings without underhanded influences is fairly new and local, even today, and I wouldn't personally take it for granted that you can just project that moral principle on this kind of fantasy world. Same for "she didn't blink an eye at the Lodge wanting to turn Ciri into a broodmare for their purposes!". Feels like that blot on her character should carry a lot less weight in a setting where that's the default fate of 99.99% of women everywhere? Part of the bittersweet theme of the book series ending is that nobody really has any easy answers for how to keep Ciri from being exploited or suffering in that same manner or worse at someone's hands, and the Lodge just so thinks that if so then it's probably best for everyone that they do it and carry out their plans around her with her consent and cooperation. And at the time it's not totally obvious that they're wrong. Though naturally, after the second and and third game it's patently clear that trusting Phillipa with anything resembling that kind of power would be a catastrophe. But yeah, not convinced that Triss is the most problematic out of the two in the games. Outside those points which stuck out to me though, the video actually does a pretty good job discussing a lot of the trio's issues very fairly and from an impressive number of angles.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jan 4, 2022 22:26:34 GMT
Hmm. I don't hear any convincing arguments that Triss isn't in the right headspace to be in a healthy relationship by the time of the games, at least. Unlike Yen we can tell by her actions that she legitimately has developed beyond a lot of her flaws from the books. I suppose it comes to down to how much the player is aware of the books and/or is willing to ignore them. In defense of game Yen that relationship is as toxic as the player wants to make it. The criticism of this is that now Geralt is "henpecked", which certainly jives with my view of there relationship in the books, but to be honest, given that the nature of the plot is to find Ciri, to me I don't believe Geralt has much reason to disagree in a lot of cases. Yen seemingly being more upset and jealous of Geralt's relationship with Triss, than concern for what he dealt with over the last year or whatever is probably the most damning aspect to game only Yen, though book Yen is probably right to be a bit skeptical. Either way, if the player doesn't make a further issue of it, she doesn't either. That's fair. Now that I think about it, telling Geralt about Ciri would be a terrible idea. Haha. It would either have no effect, or destroy him. I more or less agree here, though I think CDPR intends for a least the romance part to be seen as manipulative, with Triss basically apologizing for it in TW3. I'm sure a lot of game only players thought, "if this is what manipulation is, sign me up for more!" LOL. You make a good point about Triss being vulnerable herself (the guy she likes just came back from the dead and all that), but in the end she still jumps into bed with him, yes Geralt makes the initial advance but he is not in his right mind, but its certainly a little more complex than some read it as. Book Triss would know full well that if Geralt had all his faculties he would not want this though. In my opinion she uses him, though I can understand the how and why of it given the situation she found herself in. Yeah, I don't judge book Triss all that harshly. With the Lodge stuff to me she is mostly just happy to be included, and has a sense of self-importance because of it, at least in my opinion. Understandable really given her age and lack of experience.
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