helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on Dec 5, 2018 11:04:26 GMT
New protagonist set 50 years after the Archon's defeat. Two words: Krogan Pathfinder.
If I were making this game I'd mandate playable races and try something novel with companions...like have a pool of ten to choose five for your team to control your party composition (and avoid characters you find most annoying). This would incentivize replaying the game to achieve a different flavor.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 6, 2018 4:54:00 GMT
Guys, just ignore 10k. He's either being a troll and/or an ass at this point so no reason to keep feeding him. Yeah because when you disagree with someone it's trolling lol Been there. Done that.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 6, 2018 22:38:09 GMT
Still want out of Andromeda entirely. We never should have gone there, it doesn't make sense and never did and the Milky Way is still only hardly 5% explored in Shepard's time I thought. So, no to Ryder. I personally want more Shepard. Maybe I have a hard time letting go of memorable characters, but he's the only reason Mass Effect exists and moved us the way it did. Without Shepard, it's not Mass Effect. If they decide to remake the original trilogy, then they should rewrite and edit Shepard to be more human and not some Space Jesus/Mary Sue character. I want to get to play back stories of what was it like to be a criminal on Earth, a survivor in Mindoir, or what was it like fighting in the Skyllian Blitz. They could've done a whole lot better with the trilogy if they have competent writers.
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Post by twalicious on Dec 8, 2018 4:42:26 GMT
Agreed that Andromeda never should have happened, it was a wasted opportunity to continue on with Shepard's story in dark space.
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michaelm
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: ArchMikem
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Post by michaelm on Dec 8, 2018 9:54:23 GMT
Id like to import my Ryder save file just like Shepard in the Trilogy games. See an aging experienced Ryder possibly get rougher and battered from the events of Andromeda, maybe give him a true Renegade option this time.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Dec 9, 2018 4:28:16 GMT
Still want out of Andromeda entirely. We never should have gone there, it doesn't make sense and never did and the Milky Way is still only hardly 5% explored in Shepard's time I thought. So, no to Ryder. I personally want more Shepard. Maybe I have a hard time letting go of memorable characters, but he's the only reason Mass Effect exists and moved us the way it did. Without Shepard, it's not Mass Effect. If they decide to remake the original trilogy, then they should rewrite and edit Shepard to be more human and not some Space Jesus/Mary Sue character. I want to get to play back stories of what was it like to be a criminal on Earth, a survivor in Mindoir, or what was it like fighting in the Skyllian Blitz. They could've done a whole lot better with the trilogy if they have competent writers. The CG trailers often showed visual details on Shepard that insinuated a more developed character than what we got with Shepard. ME1 had contemplation (answering the distress call), ME2 had dedication (Horizon CG), ME3 had righteousness (avenging Earth). Sure the game Shepard had some of all this, but both technical and creative limitations existed.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 9, 2018 6:12:43 GMT
If they decide to remake the original trilogy, then they should rewrite and edit Shepard to be more human and not some Space Jesus/Mary Sue character. I want to get to play back stories of what was it like to be a criminal on Earth, a survivor in Mindoir, or what was it like fighting in the Skyllian Blitz. They could've done a whole lot better with the trilogy if they have competent writers. The CG trailers often showed visual details on Shepard that insinuated a more developed character than what we got with Shepard. ME1 had contemplation (answering the distress call), ME2 had dedication (Horizon CG), ME3 had righteousness (avenging Earth). Sure the game Shepard had some of all this, but both technical and creative limitations existed. CG trailers ain't by shit and they don't promise what they've shown in the trailers.
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shermos
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Post by shermos on Dec 9, 2018 10:54:46 GMT
New character in the milky way is my pick. Shepard's story is finished, and I hate Ryder rather passionately. I was never happy with the concept for Andromeda, but the frankly terrible writing and voice acting for Ryder as well as his/her crew mates turned me right off.
This sums up my feelings on MEA's writing pretty well.
Taking a Star Trek: The Next Generation type approach in the milky way is what I am holding out some small hope for. Just hoping Bioware hires some better writers before trying again.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 11, 2018 10:07:56 GMT
If writing quality is an issue, then it really makes no difference at all.
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 11, 2018 10:14:28 GMT
I was never happy with the concept for Andromeda, but the frankly terrible writing and voice acting for Ryder as well as his/her crew mates turned me right off. You think if they made a game in MW it would magically change how they write things?
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Post by shermos on Dec 11, 2018 11:08:43 GMT
I was never happy with the concept for Andromeda, but the frankly terrible writing and voice acting for Ryder as well as his/her crew mates turned me right off. You think if they made a game in MW it would magically change how they write things? The rest of my post makes it pretty clear I don't think so. I do however think that MEA was so badly thought up and written that a sequel would be impossible to pull off well no matter how good the writing team is. The general gaming community will certainly be very skeptical.
Imo, the only chance the franchise has is to go back to its original setting with better writers and more forethought. That could succeed in winning people back.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 11, 2018 21:30:02 GMT
You think if they made a game in MW it would magically change how they write things? The rest of my post makes it pretty clear I don't think so. I do however think that MEA was so badly thought up and written that a sequel would be impossible to pull off well no matter how good the writing team is. The general gaming community will certainly be very skeptical.
Imo, the only chance the franchise has is to go back to its original setting with better writers and more forethought. That could succeed in winning people back.
Let's just hope that they'll be more competent with their stories this time.
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guanxi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by guanxi on Dec 16, 2018 13:41:07 GMT
Neither Ryder nor Shepard are the answer ultimately which why we are where we are. Tired of the BioWare stock character - what is this 2007? Let us just play as ourselves already for f--k sake.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 16, 2018 16:03:11 GMT
Last time I checked, I'm not a space marine. I don't see how playing as myself would work.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by guanxi on Dec 16, 2018 17:42:05 GMT
Last time I checked, I'm not a space marine. I don't see how playing as myself would work. Why not just create whoever YOU want to play, why even have BioWare hand us our character anymore? It's an approach which worked with Shepard to great affect but it has been done, arguably perfected and Ryder for me was proof positive for me that it's time to move on from the increasingly auteur defined player protagonist model they've been using since 2007. I think has outlived it's usefulness and at this point, it's showing it's age, feels stilted and formulaic and after 10 years of Mass Effect games I really think greater impetus and creative control must come from us over these stories now. I'm so damn tired of playing around the edges being limited to minor tonal variations on dialogue choices that just feel so stifling and detached from how I or 9/10 people would actually react in these situations I feel completely detached and disconnected from Ryder. I had next to no interest in going through the motions with because he certainly didn't feel like my character - didn't represent me at all. Felt like I was playing somebody's else's game.
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anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Dec 16, 2018 17:55:03 GMT
A new one, for god's sake. And with a new story too, in another galaxy or the Milky Way. Just pretend Andromeda never existed, it's a terribly written fanfic.
A bit of charisma and actual personality for this new character wouldn't be bad too.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 16, 2018 18:02:28 GMT
Last time I checked, I'm not a space marine. I don't see how playing as myself would work. Why not just create whoever YOU want to play, why even have BioWare give you a character anymore? It's an approach which worked with Shepard to great affect but it has been done, arguably perfected and Ryder for me was proof positive for me that in order for Mass Effect to continue BioWare need rethink their entire approach to the auteur defined player protagonist as the template they've been using since 2007. I think has outlived it's usefulness and at this point feels dated and formulaic and after 10 years of Mass Effect games I think greater impetus and creative control must come from us over these stories. I'm so damn tired of playing around the edges being limited to minor tonal variations to dialogue choices that just feel so stilted and stifling and detached from how I or 9/10 people would actually react in these situations I feel completely detached and disconnected from a character like Ryder I had next to no interest in going through the motions with because he certainly wasn't my character. Felt like I was playing somebody's else's game. There are companies that do the undefined protagonist. In fact it was the norm for quite a while in RPGs. It has its positive sides and negative sides. It works best with unvoiced protagonists due to the difficulty in giving voice to that wide a range of options.
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guanxi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Dec 16, 2018 18:16:18 GMT
Why not just create whoever YOU want to play, why even have BioWare give you a character anymore? It's an approach which worked with Shepard to great affect but it has been done, arguably perfected and Ryder for me was proof positive for me that in order for Mass Effect to continue BioWare need rethink their entire approach to the auteur defined player protagonist as the template they've been using since 2007. I think has outlived it's usefulness and at this point feels dated and formulaic and after 10 years of Mass Effect games I think greater impetus and creative control must come from us over these stories. I'm so damn tired of playing around the edges being limited to minor tonal variations to dialogue choices that just feel so stilted and stifling and detached from how I or 9/10 people would actually react in these situations I feel completely detached and disconnected from a character like Ryder I had next to no interest in going through the motions with because he certainly wasn't my character. Felt like I was playing somebody's else's game. There are companies that do the undefined protagonist. In fact it was the norm for quite a while in RPGs. It has its positive sides and negative sides. It works best with unvoiced protagonists due to the difficulty in giving voice to that wide a range of options. Not calling for the removal of voicing acting but I think that the older Mass Effect games handled those limitations so much better. I felt like Shepard for the most part was more relatable in part due to better writing, and also we had if not necessarily more choices certainly more variation in dialogue choices and as time has gone on the dialogue system has taken a back seat and the role-playing aspects have become tedious and a lot less enjoyable.
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Prince Charmless
I will save BioWare
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Post by Coronavirus on Dec 16, 2018 20:34:33 GMT
I want a Salarian with an eye patch and a bad attitude Captaining a pirate frigate in the Attican Traverse.
I’m not even kidding. Give me it BioWare.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 16, 2018 20:35:18 GMT
There are companies that do the undefined protagonist. In fact it was the norm for quite a while in RPGs. It has its positive sides and negative sides. It works best with unvoiced protagonists due to the difficulty in giving voice to that wide a range of options. Not calling for the removal of voicing acting but I think that the older Mass Effect games handled those limitations so much better. I felt like Shepard for the most part was more relatable in part due to better writing, and also we had if not necessarily more choices certainly more variation in dialogue choices and as time has gone on the dialogue system has taken a back seat and the role-playing aspects have become tedious and a lot less enjoyable. Shepard had larger variations on the extreme ends, Ryder had tone differences which created a range of differences within in a smaller set. As a quick example without using any of the big choices when Ash first boards the normandy if you questioned her leaving her team behind she resents it. Your range is from telling her to not suck if she wants your opinion to change or to be conciliatory. Ryder has 4 tonal choices but all are basically being nice. Is it emotional nice, smart ass nice, logical nice, professional nice even with pretty large events like the notorious pee-bee loyalty mission, "are you mad" responses. You don't really have those extreme shifts. Now to some degree that is better in that if you pick Shepard choices kind of at Random he seems a bit insane, fluctuating between full asshole to full nice guy which is weird, so the smaller range helps there. But yes you define your character in a smaller personality set with Ryder which makes him seem less insane, when jumping between tones but you have less ability to make him your own ryder.
I overall prefer unvoiced protagonists, but they are a dying RPG style. I hope Bethesda returns to them for Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6. Voiced RPGs feel more like i'm reading a book vs playing a RPGs. I love to read so its not like I wont play voiced protagonist games, its just a different style of entertainment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 14:23:05 GMT
Not calling for the removal of voicing acting but I think that the older Mass Effect games handled those limitations so much better. I felt like Shepard for the most part was more relatable in part due to better writing, and also we had if not necessarily more choices certainly more variation in dialogue choices and as time has gone on the dialogue system has taken a back seat and the role-playing aspects have become tedious and a lot less enjoyable. Shepard had larger variations on the extreme ends, Ryder had tone differences which created a range of differences within in a smaller set. As a quick example without using any of the big choices when Ash first boards the normandy if you questioned her leaving her team behind she resents it. Your range is from telling her to not suck if she wants your opinion to change or to be conciliatory. Ryder has 4 tonal choices but all are basically being nice. Is it emotional nice, smart ass nice, logical nice, professional nice even with pretty large events like the notorious pee-bee loyalty mission, "are you mad" responses. You don't really have those extreme shifts. Now to some degree that is better in that if you pick Shepard choices kind of at Random he seems a bit insane, fluctuating between full asshole to full nice guy which is weird, so the smaller range helps there. But yes you define your character in a smaller personality set with Ryder which makes him seem less insane, when jumping between tones but you have less ability to make him your own ryder.
I overall prefer unvoiced protagonists, but they are a dying RPG style. I hope Bethesda returns to them for Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6. Voiced RPGs feel more like i'm reading a book vs playing a RPGs. I love to read so its not like I wont play voiced protagonist games, its just a different style of entertainment.
Even with a non-voiced protagonist, you would have to forfeit subtly within a range of a character to increase the personality range of that character elsewise you'd have an entire screen full of printed sentences you'd have to select from with each dialgoue. That would slow down gameplay as each option gets read and then the player decides what they want to say. Personally, I find voiced games as I enjoy a faster pace... more Action RPG than detailed RPG.
With Ryder, I think Bioware now knows that players prefer a wider range of personalities rather than being able to express subtle differences. I hope they don't go back to the ME1 system though where Shepard would utter the exact same line regardless of what cue was chosen on the dialogue wheel. People who love the just arbitrarily say the writing in ME1 was so superior to the writing in subsequent games forget that this was the reality... It was only in their own head at times that Shepard was being meaner or nicer to an NPC because a lot of the time it did not matter what you selected, Shepard would say exactly the same line in exactly the same tone of voice. That's not great writing... that's a cheap out on reusing game assets. At least Ryder would actually say something a little different and in a different tone of voice whenever you selected different options from the dialogue wheel. It may have all been variations on "nice," but at least the variations were actually uttered by the VA.
In ME1 the writing also sucked in that if you selected all the investigate options, you encountered lines that were essentially the same information given to you over and over again (just because some other players don't bother to select all investigate options). Players unwilling to investigate completely should not have had all the main information presented in each and every line. If Shepard didn't ask enough questions, he should have been "running" with less information than the Shepards who did ask all the questions and those Shepards should have been making some mistakes based on not having adequate info to go on. This repetitive information also disrupted the flow of many of the conversations in the game... making some of the lines clearly appear to out of sequence if the player just selected the options in the "wrong" order. ME:A clearly avoided this did this better than ME1.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Dec 17, 2018 15:32:36 GMT
I voted new because I want a pre-MET prequel about the earlier years of the Alliance and the politics and conflict surrounding their expansion into the Traverse. That mostly rules out Shepard, and I didn't particularly like Alec Ryder as a person and would rather not have to play a game as him. If we have to play as a human, then I guess some other N7 type, though I'd also enjoy playing as a non-human Spectre sent in to investigate some point of contention between humans and batarians.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 17, 2018 18:22:03 GMT
Last time I checked, I'm not a space marine. I don't see how playing as myself would work. Why not just create whoever YOU want to play, why even have BioWare hand us our character anymore? It's an approach which worked with Shepard to great affect but it has been done, arguably perfected and Ryder for me was proof positive for me that it's time to move on from the increasingly auteur defined player protagonist model they've been using since 2007. I think has outlived it's usefulness and at this point, it's showing it's age, feels stilted and formulaic and after 10 years of Mass Effect games I really think greater impetus and creative control must come from us over these stories now. I'm so damn tired of playing around the edges being limited to minor tonal variations on dialogue choices that just feel so stifling and detached from how I or 9/10 people would actually react in these situations I feel completely detached and disconnected from Ryder. I had next to no interest in going through the motions with because he certainly didn't feel like my character - didn't represent me at all. Felt like I was playing somebody's else's game. Well, if that's what you meant, then why did you say "play as ourselves"?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 18:51:02 GMT
Last time I checked, I'm not a space marine. I don't see how playing as myself would work. Why not just create whoever YOU want to play, why even have BioWare hand us our character anymore? It's an approach which worked with Shepard to great affect but it has been done, arguably perfected and Ryder for me was proof positive for me that it's time to move on from the increasingly auteur defined player protagonist model they've been using since 2007. I think has outlived it's usefulness and at this point, it's showing it's age, feels stilted and formulaic and after 10 years of Mass Effect games I really think greater impetus and creative control must come from us over these stories now. I'm so damn tired of playing around the edges being limited to minor tonal variations on dialogue choices that just feel so stifling and detached from how I or 9/10 people would actually react in these situations I feel completely detached and disconnected from Ryder. I had next to no interest in going through the motions with because he certainly didn't feel like my character - didn't represent me at all. Felt like I was playing somebody's else's game. Then play Minecraft. There would be no story consistency wtihout allowing the dev to somewhat define the player character.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 18, 2018 4:31:54 GMT
Shepard had larger variations on the extreme ends, Ryder had tone differences which created a range of differences within in a smaller set. As a quick example without using any of the big choices when Ash first boards the normandy if you questioned her leaving her team behind she resents it. Your range is from telling her to not suck if she wants your opinion to change or to be conciliatory. Ryder has 4 tonal choices but all are basically being nice. Is it emotional nice, smart ass nice, logical nice, professional nice even with pretty large events like the notorious pee-bee loyalty mission, "are you mad" responses. You don't really have those extreme shifts. Now to some degree that is better in that if you pick Shepard choices kind of at Random he seems a bit insane, fluctuating between full asshole to full nice guy which is weird, so the smaller range helps there. But yes you define your character in a smaller personality set with Ryder which makes him seem less insane, when jumping between tones but you have less ability to make him your own ryder.
I overall prefer unvoiced protagonists, but they are a dying RPG style. I hope Bethesda returns to them for Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6. Voiced RPGs feel more like i'm reading a book vs playing a RPGs. I love to read so its not like I wont play voiced protagonist games, its just a different style of entertainment.
Even with a non-voiced protagonist, you would have to forfeit subtly within a range of a character to increase the personality range of that character elsewise you'd have an entire screen full of printed sentences you'd have to select from with each dialgoue. That would slow down gameplay as each option gets read and then the player decides what they want to say. Personally, I find voiced games as I enjoy a faster pace... more Action RPG than detailed RPG.
With Ryder, I think Bioware now knows that players prefer a wider range of personalities rather than being able to express subtle differences. I hope they don't go back to the ME1 system though where Shepard would utter the exact same line regardless of what cue was chosen on the dialogue wheel. People who love the just arbitrarily say the writing in ME1 was so superior to the writing in subsequent games forget that this was the reality... It was only in their own head at times that Shepard was being meaner or nicer to an NPC because a lot of the time it did not matter what you selected, Shepard would say exactly the same line in exactly the same tone of voice. That's not great writing... that's a cheap out on reusing game assets. At least Ryder would actually say something a little different and in a different tone of voice whenever you selected different options from the dialogue wheel. It may have all been variations on "nice," but at least the variations were actually uttered by the VA.
In ME1 the writing also sucked in that if you selected all the investigate options, you encountered lines that were essentially the same information given to you over and over again (just because some other players don't bother to select all investigate options). Players unwilling to investigate completely should not have had all the main information presented in each and every line. If Shepard didn't ask enough questions, he should have been "running" with less information than the Shepards who did ask all the questions and those Shepards should have been making some mistakes based on not having adequate info to go on. This repetitive information also disrupted the flow of many of the conversations in the game... making some of the lines clearly appear to out of sequence if the player just selected the options in the "wrong" order. ME:A clearly avoided this did this better than ME1.
Part of the benefit on unvoiced protagonist is tone/intent is added by the player. Similar to what you suggest was happening in ME1, though I see that as a strength when intended not a flaw. Like in the real world I control what I say/mean I don't control how people take it. And yeah compared to games of today there were a wide range of writing flaws in ME1. But it had some strengths as well.
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