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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 25, 2019 20:56:10 GMT
A just so story since gravity hasn't been scientifically validated yet. And if it hasn't, then you can't replicate gravity containing pressure. And if pressure without a container can't be demonstrated, only left with taking it on faith that gravity works as intended. (2 min clip of deGrasse admitting no one knows what gravity is) Second, by definition pressure means to 'press' against. If you've got no barrier to press against, can't see how you can have pressure. Third, water pressure is not the same as gas pressure. (False equivalence fallacy) spaceplace.nasa.gov/what-is-gravity/en/ ... yeah...it's been validated. More so than that flat earth bullshit. The Mickey Mouse cherry-picked science in the flat earth community, isn't relevant. Atmospheric pressure is a force, you may not see it, but the wind exists, so do molecules in the air. The density of them depends on what type of molecules they are and their temperature. The difference between a liquid and a gas is the density of the molecules, and that density depends on the temperature those molecules will expand at and the amount of area they have to expand into. I ask you, why should I believe these idiots, who are obviously twisting words to suit their narrative? You keep throwing a bunch of garbage out there, junk science, but really have no valid credible evidence to back your claim. What you present is a bunch of nonsense with a bunch of misused technical terms. To scientifically validate something requires the ability to vary and manipulate your presumed independent variable (your presumed cause). And the current presumed cause for gravity is the bending of space time. Meaning the only way to verify if the bending of space time is the cause of gravity is to vary and manipulate space time (whatever that is. Just another just so story). Force or not, it's still a gas pressure and the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container. Liquid and gas pressure are not the same, one requires to be contained all around (car tire) and another not (swimming pool). And no need to call anyone idiots, they're simple just asking questions. If you feel they're throwing out garbage and misleading, then simply point it out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 22:00:32 GMT
spaceplace.nasa.gov/what-is-gravity/en/ ... yeah...it's been validated. More so than that flat earth bullshit. The Mickey Mouse cherry-picked science in the flat earth community, isn't relevant. Atmospheric pressure is a force, you may not see it, but the wind exists, so do molecules in the air. The density of them depends on what type of molecules they are and their temperature. The difference between a liquid and a gas is the density of the molecules, and that density depends on the temperature those molecules will expand at and the amount of area they have to expand into. I ask you, why should I believe these idiots, who are obviously twisting words to suit their narrative? You keep throwing a bunch of garbage out there, junk science, but really have no valid credible evidence to back your claim. What you present is a bunch of nonsense with a bunch of misused technical terms. To scientifically validate something requires the ability to vary and manipulate your presumed independent variable (your presumed cause). And the current presumed cause for gravity is the bending of space time. Meaning the only way to verify if the bending of space time is the cause of gravity is to vary and manipulate space time (whatever that is. Just another just so story). Force or not, it's still a gas pressure and the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container. Liquid and gas pressure are not the same, one requires to be contained all around (car tire) and another not (swimming pool). And no need to call anyone idiots, they're simple just asking questions. If you feel they're throwing out garbage and misleading, then simply point it out. No container needed if the gas hits cold air and condenses into a liquid and falls back onto the planet as rain or freezes into a solid and we get snow. Drop a red hot ball bearing into some cold water, you get a pocket of air in between the metal and water until the metal cools to a temperature that no longer produces a gas. The heat from the planet allows liquids to evaporate into gases and the cold denser air from space keeps the gases contained to create an atmosphere.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 25, 2019 22:59:32 GMT
To scientifically validate something requires the ability to vary and manipulate your presumed independent variable (your presumed cause). And the current presumed cause for gravity is the bending of space time. Meaning the only way to verify if the bending of space time is the cause of gravity is to vary and manipulate space time (whatever that is. Just another just so story). Force or not, it's still a gas pressure and the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container. Liquid and gas pressure are not the same, one requires to be contained all around (car tire) and another not (swimming pool). And no need to call anyone idiots, they're simple just asking questions. If you feel they're throwing out garbage and misleading, then simply point it out. No container needed if the gas hits cold air and condenses into a liquid and falls back onto the planet as rain or freezes into a solid and we get snow. Drop a red hot ball bearing into some cold water, you get a pocket of air in between the metal and water until the metal cools to a temperature that no longer produces a gas. The heat from the planet allows liquids to evaporate into gases and the cold denser air from space keeps the gases contained to create an atmosphere. ^ Short minute clip of an MIT professor giving a lecture on how a gas cannot exist next to a vacuum, big contradiction to what the space agencies teach. Only difference is we can repeatably test and observes this MIT lesson to verify it's validity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 23:33:26 GMT
No container needed if the gas hits cold air and condenses into a liquid and falls back onto the planet as rain or freezes into a solid and we get snow. Drop a red hot ball bearing into some cold water, you get a pocket of air in between the metal and water until the metal cools to a temperature that no longer produces a gas. The heat from the planet allows liquids to evaporate into gases and the cold denser air from space keeps the gases contained to create an atmosphere. ^ Short minute clip of an MIT professor giving a lecture on how a gas cannot exist next to a vacuum, big contradiction to what the space agencies teach. Only difference is we can repeatably test and observes this MIT lesson to verify it's validity. Space isn't a vacuum, so non issue.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 26, 2019 0:00:19 GMT
^ Short minute clip of an MIT professor giving a lecture on how a gas cannot exist next to a vacuum, big contradiction to what the space agencies teach. Only difference is we can repeatably test and observes this MIT lesson to verify it's validity. Space isn't a vacuum, so non issue. Moving the goalpost. But that's alright, because that presents a different issue. "An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by on outside force." This is why outer space story has to be a near perfect vacuum so that it's devoid of particles getting in the way of slowing down orbital mechanics like the moon infinitely in motion around the Earth.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 28, 2019 7:22:10 GMT
^ Short minute clip of an MIT professor giving a lecture on how a gas cannot exist next to a vacuum, big contradiction to what the space agencies teach. Only difference is we can repeatably test and observes this MIT lesson to verify it's validity. Not only does this video misrepresent what this MIT professor is saying by taking him entirely out of context, but it's not even applicable in this example. Gas will rush to fill a vacuum, but not when you're dealing with objects with sufficient mass and gravity to hold those gases with an atmosphere.
"An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by on outside force." This is why outer space story has to be a near perfect vacuum so that it's devoid of particles getting in the way of slowing down orbital mechanics like the moon infinitely in motion around the Earth. The moon's orbital speed actually is slowing down and moving further away from the Earth, but tidal friction with the Earth is the outside force responsible for this. These same tidal forces are also responsible for gradually slowing down Earth's rotation and thereby lengthening our days. To give some perspective on this, the Moon's distance increases by about 1.5 inches per year, while a day has increased by only 1.7 milliseconds in the past century.
Space is not a near-perfect vacuum devoid of particles because it's "convenient", but because it's simply that... empty space (hence the name).
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 28, 2019 10:34:59 GMT
^ Short minute clip of an MIT professor giving a lecture on how a gas cannot exist next to a vacuum, big contradiction to what the space agencies teach. Only difference is we can repeatably test and observes this MIT lesson to verify it's validity. Not only does this video misrepresent what this MIT professor is saying by taking him entirely out of context, but it's not even applicable in this example. Gas will rush to fill a vacuum, but not when you're dealing with objects with sufficient mass and gravity to hold those gases with an atmosphere.
"An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by on outside force." This is why outer space story has to be a near perfect vacuum so that it's devoid of particles getting in the way of slowing down orbital mechanics like the moon infinitely in motion around the Earth. The moon's orbital speed actually is slowing down and moving further away from the Earth, but tidal friction with the Earth is the outside force responsible for this. These same tidal forces are also responsible for gradually slowing down Earth's rotation and thereby lengthening our days. To give some perspective on this, the Moon's distance increases by about 1.5 inches per year, while a day has increased by only 1.7 milliseconds in the past century.
Space is not a near-perfect vacuum devoid of particles because it's "convenient", but because it's simply that... empty space (hence the name).
That's only a just so story of gravity holding in our atmosphere against the near perfect vacuum of space without a container. Demonstration, please. Another just so story about speed of moon slowing down itself and Earth. And the just so story of space is that it is a near perfect vacuum; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum#Outer_space
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Post by Sifr on Mar 29, 2019 5:23:11 GMT
That's only a just so story of gravity holding in our atmosphere against the near perfect vacuum of space without a container. Demonstration, please. Being able to survive going outside without your lungs bursting from vacuum wasn't already an adequate demonstration enough?
Another just so story about speed of moon slowing down itself and Earth. Proven by observing the length of the day using countless atomic clocks, that have all measured a gradual increase in time.
Also proven by taking geological records from millions of years ago, that demonstrate that the day was once much, much shorter than it currently is.
Wait, are you refuting the idea of space being a near-perfect vacuum, by citing a source that refers to space as a near-perfect vacuum?
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 29, 2019 10:42:49 GMT
"An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by on outside force." This is why outer space story has to be a near perfect vacuum so that it's devoid of particles getting in the way of slowing down orbital mechanics like the moon infinitely in motion around the Earth. Space is not a near-perfect vacuum devoid of particles because it's "convenient", but because it's simply that... empty space (hence the name).
Quote where you say space is not a near perfect vacuum. That's only a just so story of gravity holding in our atmosphere against the near perfect vacuum of space without a container. Demonstration, please. Being able to survive going outside without your lungs bursting from vacuum wasn't already an adequate demonstration enough?
Another just so story about speed of moon slowing down itself and Earth. Proven by observing the length of the day using countless atomic clocks, that have all measured a gradual increase in time.
Also proven by taking geological records from millions of years ago, that demonstrate that the day was once much, much shorter than it currently is.
Wait, are you refuting the idea of space being a near-perfect vacuum, by citing a source that refers to space as a near-perfect vacuum? How we're breathing gas pressure without a container is the thing we're trying to prove. Why this can't be used as proof. Historical records have been shown to be tampered with on enough occasions. So not proof either. This is also sorta irrelevant/red herring, lets drop it. You were the one refuting space being a near perfect vacuum as quoted above. Are we now in agreement that the space narrative is a near perfect vacuum? ( EDIT - wait, you worded that strange, so we are in agreement that space is a near perfect vacuum. Well gas pressure next to a vacuum is a second law of thermodynamics violation) I quote; "The gas is going to fill the available volume."
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Post by legbamel on Mar 29, 2019 20:57:22 GMT
To be clear, your assertion is that the Earth is flat and in a container, to keep the atmosphere in place? Or are you saying that that the Earth is all there is in the universe and it's air all of the way to the moon (since you seem to accept that it exists) and then...what? Void? Heaven and Hell? Where is the sun and how big do you believe it to be?
It's hard to refute an argument here that you never articulate beyond scoffing at the information posted by others. So tell us, broadly or in excruciating detail, what you believe beyond "flat".
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Post by mybudgee on Mar 29, 2019 21:06:04 GMT
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 29, 2019 22:30:12 GMT
To be clear, your assertion is that the Earth is flat and in a container, to keep the atmosphere in place? Or are you saying that that the Earth is all there is in the universe and it's air all of the way to the moon (since you seem to accept that it exists) and then...what? Void? Heaven and Hell? Where is the sun and how big do you believe it to be? It's hard to refute an argument here that you never articulate beyond scoffing at the information posted by others. So tell us, broadly or in excruciating detail, what you believe beyond "flat". My position is simply that the Earth is obviously and observably flat (a concrete noun) and that the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container (so not saying there is a container, just that we've never seen gas pressure without a container). Outside of this simple and neutral position, don't need to make any assertions. And am not scoffing at what other posters are posting, just pointing out fallacious arguments. So far all proposed globe proofs have been fallacious or just so stories.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 30, 2019 15:14:13 GMT
To be clear, your assertion is that the Earth is flat and in a container, to keep the atmosphere in place? Or are you saying that that the Earth is all there is in the universe and it's air all of the way to the moon (since you seem to accept that it exists) and then...what? Void? Heaven and Hell? Where is the sun and how big do you believe it to be? It's hard to refute an argument here that you never articulate beyond scoffing at the information posted by others. So tell us, broadly or in excruciating detail, what you believe beyond "flat". My position is simply that the Earth is obviously and observably flat (a concrete noun) and that the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container (so not saying there is a container, just that we've never seen gas pressure without a container). Outside of this simple and neutral position, don't need to make any assertions. And am not scoffing at what other posters are posting, just pointing out fallacious arguments. So far all proposed globe proofs have been fallacious or just so stories. Obviously and observably flat? Pics or it didn't happen! You are such a tool. You refuse to advance your argument, rather playing games with those of us who point out the problems with your broken troll theory. Then, when you nut up and make an argument, you give us this?! Exposed troll is exposed man, your last post gives it all away. Now, get a job for fucks sake.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 30, 2019 18:16:50 GMT
My position is simply that the Earth is obviously and observably flat (a concrete noun) and that the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container (so not saying there is a container, just that we've never seen gas pressure without a container). Outside of this simple and neutral position, don't need to make any assertions. And am not scoffing at what other posters are posting, just pointing out fallacious arguments. So far all proposed globe proofs have been fallacious or just so stories. Obviously and observably flat? Pics or it didn't happen! You've got evidence of Earth curvature? Well lets have a look at what you've got.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 30, 2019 23:11:13 GMT
My last reply came across as a burden of proof reversal fallacy. Let me clarify obviously and observably flat, Qui-Gon GlenN7. My position is simply that the Earth is obviously and observably flat (a concrete noun) and that the necessary antecedent to gas pressure is a container (so not saying there is a container, just that we've never seen gas pressure without a container). Outside of this simple and neutral position, don't need to make any assertions. And am not scoffing at what other posters are posting, just pointing out fallacious arguments. So far all proposed globe proofs have been fallacious or just so stories. Obviously and observably flat? Pics or it didn't happen! I open my eyes, walk to a beach and observe the horizon is flat. Grab some beach water in my palm and observe water always finds it's level. Then grab a comfy seat with cold brew in my hand and observe a boat vanish into the vanishing point of my perspective. Now your turn, show me the next logical step toward your position.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 1, 2019 4:46:09 GMT
I go away for 3 weeks and this troll bait thread comes back. Oldin's balls!
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 1, 2019 11:08:46 GMT
I go away for 3 weeks and this troll bait thread comes back. Oldin's balls! Simple asking for evidence of Earth curvature and gas pressure next to a vacuum. And welcome back.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 1, 2019 11:37:03 GMT
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 4, 2019 17:25:12 GMT
Title says it all, almost. Sun we see and sun we don't see via normal means shown side by side. Also shows footage of someone else replicating this.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 9, 2019 11:35:27 GMT
Space is not a near-perfect vacuum devoid of particles because it's "convenient", but because it's simply that... empty space (hence the name).
Quote where you say space is not a near perfect vacuum. Were you asking to me to quote something or were misunderstanding what was being said here?
If the latter, then let me clarify that statement for the sake of better comprehension.
"Space is a near-perfect vacuum. People do not say that because it's "convenient", but because it's simply that... empty space"
(Language can be tricky, see the ambiguity of our own post for how easy it to read multiple meanings into the same statement)
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 9, 2019 14:38:17 GMT
Quote where you say space is not a near perfect vacuum. Were you asking to me to quote something or were misunderstanding what was being said here?
If the latter, then let me clarify that statement for the sake of better comprehension.
"Space is a near-perfect vacuum. People do not say that because it's "convenient", but because it's simply that... empty space"
(Language can be tricky, see the ambiguity of our own post for how easy it to read multiple meanings into the same statement)
Exactly, empty space is devoid of matter (vacuum). Therefore it's available volume for gas to fill. I'll quote the MIT lesson again; " The gas is going to fill the available volume." Can't have a vacuum (outer space) next to gas (our atmosphere) without gas filling the available volume. Why it's a second law of thermodynamics (entropy) violation.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 9, 2019 15:03:24 GMT
Exactly, empty space is devoid of matter (vacuum). Therefore it's available volume for gas to fill. I'll quote the MIT lesson again; " The gas is going to fill the available volume." Can't have a vacuum (outer space) next to gas (our atmosphere) without gas filling the available volume. Why it's a second law of thermodynamics (entropy) violation. As I pointed out before, that video is disingenuous as it's meant to take the MIT professor's words entirely out of context to "prove" a false point. The principle he's talking about in that quote only applies to isolated systems... but as Earth is an open/closed system, that does not apply here, nor does it stand in violation of the second law of thermodynamics.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 9, 2019 15:24:10 GMT
Exactly, empty space is devoid of matter (vacuum). Therefore it's available volume for gas to fill. I'll quote the MIT lesson again; " The gas is going to fill the available volume." Can't have a vacuum (outer space) next to gas (our atmosphere) without gas filling the available volume. Why it's a second law of thermodynamics (entropy) violation. As I pointed out before, that video is disingenuous as it's meant to take the MIT professor's words entirely out of context to "prove" a false point. The principle he's talking about in that quote only applies to isolated systems... but as Earth is an open/closed system, that does not apply here, nor does it stand in violation of the second law of thermodynamics.
Yes, open system, that's the problem. How can we live in an open system when it's a second law of thermodynamics violation (entropy)? The necessary antecedent for gas pressure is a container, you don't just go to a car mechanic and tell him to put gas pressure in you tires but without the tires to contain the gas pressure.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 9, 2019 16:02:28 GMT
Yes, open system, that's the problem. How can we live in an open system when it's a second law of thermodynamics violation (entropy)? Because the second law only applies to isolated systems, whereas Earth is considered open/closed. If the Earth was an isolated system, it would be unable to receive any heat/light from the Sun, nor would it gain/lose any matter, mass or energy.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 9, 2019 16:31:17 GMT
Yes, open system, that's the problem. How can we live in an open system when it's a second law of thermodynamics violation (entropy)? Because the second law only applies to isolated systems, whereas Earth is considered open/closed. If the Earth was an isolated system, it would be unable to receive any heat/light from the Sun, nor would it gain/lose any matter, mass or energy.
You're misunderstanding and got that backwards, entropy takes place in an open system, not a closed system.
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