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Scribbles
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Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 11, 2019 22:14:56 GMT
It is unfair. I at least definitely want more than just a cutscene. I want a whole game where two commanders go against each other in a game of strategy and tactics, trying to achieve their goal while stopping the other from achieving theirs. It's a kind of relationship we've never really explored between hero and villain before in a Bioware game. Meanwhile in the forefront there are other threats to deal with, like the Qun-Tevinter War. Fair enough. It's nothing I have any interest in because I don't buy into, am not invested in, and do not want to explore the relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas. I actively want to deny Solas a death at the hands of someone he respects - and any version of the game where Solas doesn't meat a bloody end isn't something I have interest in. But it is a vision. I hope there is an option to do something like seal him in the same inescapable prison he put the Evanuris into. That would be quite the poetic justice.
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0
7,210
river82
4,946
July 2017
river82
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 22:16:58 GMT
B. A while back i postulated that the only way the Inquisitor could even be in Tevinter, let alone the protagonist, would be clandestinely. After all they are, and especially mine, an enemy of the state. So she can't move openly. So would be the leader of a spy ring or a covert resistance. Didn't give it much thought until the recent Kotaku article revealed that lo and behold they were considering doing exactly this. The only way the Inq could be in DA 4 that would fit Tresspasser, imo. The Inquisitor won't likely be acting as a spy in the Tevinter Imperium, they're too high ranked for that. Spying is typically grunt work done by expendable members of the population. Unless you're Bond, and even then ... expendable. If you're the Inquisitor you hire a spy, employ a spy, train a spy.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 11, 2019 22:18:58 GMT
B. A while back i postulated that the only way the Inquisitor could even be in Tevinter, let alone the protagonist, would be clandestinely. After all they are, and especially mine, an enemy of the state. So she can't move openly. So would be the leader of a spy ring or a covert resistance. Didn't give it much thought until the recent Kotaku article revealed that lo and behold they were considering doing exactly this. The only way the Inq could be in DA 4 that would fit Tresspasser, imo. The Inquisitor won't likely be acting as a spy in the Tevinter Imperium, they're too high ranked for that. Spying is typically grunt work done by expendable members of the population. Unless you're Bond, and even then ... expendable. If you're the Inquisitor you hire a spy, employ a spy, train a spy. Oh please, the Inquisitor did grunt work all throughout DAI and that’s when the Inquisition was a massive organization. With it now being this small secret group, they’d have more reason than even to be doing stuff like that.
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formerfiend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
Posts: 547 Likes: 955
inherit
6916
0
955
formerfiend
547
April 2017
formerfiend
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 11, 2019 22:19:01 GMT
I'm more hoping for a death mirroring that of Rendon; bleeding out on the floor, spitting impotent hatred. I want him dead, without dignity, without grace, by the hands of someone he doesn't respect, in a manner he can't accept, in the knowledge that he was a complete and utter failure as a leader, a revolutionary, and a man.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 11, 2019 22:22:03 GMT
I'm more hoping for a death mirroring that of Rendon; bleeding out on the floor, spitting impotent hatred. I want him dead, without dignity, without grace, by the hands of someone he doesn't respect, in a manner he can't accept, in the knowledge that he was a complete and utter failure as a leader, a revolutionary, and a man. Well, maybe we give him a mortal wound and when he asks for you to put him out of his misery and finish him off you refuse and let him die slowly. That or maybe have a companion he hates deliver the final blow.
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7,210
river82
4,946
July 2017
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 22:22:46 GMT
The Inquisitor won't likely be acting as a spy in the Tevinter Imperium, they're too high ranked for that. Spying is typically grunt work done by expendable members of the population. Unless you're Bond, and even then ... expendable. If you're the Inquisitor you hire a spy, employ a spy, train a spy. Oh please, the Inquisitor did grunt work all throughout DAI and that’s when the Inquisition was a massive organization. With it now being this small secret group, they’d have more reason than even to be doing stuff like that. No, they have more important things to do to chase down leads which 99% of the time don't work out. Here is the chain, you have expendable grunts (of which the Inquisitor is not). If you think the Inquisitor will be doing this work, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. This work doesn't pan out most of the time so as the Inquisitor you don't touch this stuff with a 10 foot pole. These grunts report to case officers, who are mostly behind a desk. They won't be the protag. These guys will report to probably someone like Leliana. Leliana reports to the Inquisitor.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
30,246
Hanako Ikezawa
22,353
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 11, 2019 22:25:30 GMT
Oh please, the Inquisitor did grunt work all throughout DAI and that’s when the Inquisition was a massive organization. With it now being this small secret group, they’d have more reason than even to be doing stuff like that. No, they have more important things to do to chase down leads which 99% of the time don't work out. Here is the chain, you have expendable grunts (of which the Inquisitor is not). If you think the Inquisitor will be doing this work, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. This work doesn't pan out most of the time so as the Inquisitor you don't touch this stuff with a 10 foot pole. These grunts report to case officers, who are mostly behind a desk. They won't be the protag. These guys will report to probably someone like Leliana. Leliana reports to the Inquisitor. And yet DAI has them doing stuff exactly like that. Again, if this group is small like it seems to be that kind of system won’t exist anymore and instead will be more everyone on an equal level.
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0
7,210
river82
4,946
July 2017
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 22:29:55 GMT
No, they have more important things to do to chase down leads which 99% of the time don't work out. Here is the chain, you have expendable grunts (of which the Inquisitor is not). If you think the Inquisitor will be doing this work, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. This work doesn't pan out most of the time so as the Inquisitor you don't touch this stuff with a 10 foot pole. These grunts report to case officers, who are mostly behind a desk. They won't be the protag. These guys will report to probably someone like Leliana. Leliana reports to the Inquisitor. And yet DAI has them doing stuff exactly like that. Again, if this group is small like it seems to be that kind of system won’t exist anymore and instead will be more everyone on an equal level. Inquisition doesn't have them acting as spies for most of the game. The Inquisitor may do a piece of information gathering based on reports from people lower down, or the advice of Leliana (the spymaster), but she is not the one going out to plant herself in a town to ferret out the information from nothing that may be a bust wasting years of your life, which is what spying is all about. Bioware may change that, but I don't see them doing it. Mostly because it'd be silly.
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0
Member is Online
31,220
colfoley
16,558
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Apr 11, 2019 23:15:41 GMT
B. A while back i postulated that the only way the Inquisitor could even be in Tevinter, let alone the protagonist, would be clandestinely. After all they are, and especially mine, an enemy of the state. So she can't move openly. So would be the leader of a spy ring or a covert resistance. Didn't give it much thought until the recent Kotaku article revealed that lo and behold they were considering doing exactly this. The only way the Inq could be in DA 4 that would fit Tresspasser, imo. The Inquisitor won't likely be acting as a spy in the Tevinter Imperium, they're too high ranked for that. Spying is typically grunt work done by expendable members of the population. Unless you're Bond, and even then ... expendable. If you're the Inquisitor you hire a spy, employ a spy, train a spy. While your opinion is certainly worth considering i still tend to agree with Hanako. Despite their lofty status the Inq was very active leading troops into battle and engaging in small squad level squirmishes. Mine especially is a woman of action who was never fond of leading a giant organization and could easilyn decide, if no leads were developing, to go lead the hunt herself. Besides under my scenario IF this were to happpen she''d give up the position of Inquisitor because she can't be both secret agent Trevelyan (there's some irony for you) and the Inquisitor.
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8885
0
7,210
river82
4,946
July 2017
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 23:21:09 GMT
The Inquisitor won't likely be acting as a spy in the Tevinter Imperium, they're too high ranked for that. Spying is typically grunt work done by expendable members of the population. Unless you're Bond, and even then ... expendable. If you're the Inquisitor you hire a spy, employ a spy, train a spy. While your opinion is certainly worth considering i still tend to agree with Hanako. Despite their lofty status the Inq was very active leading troops into battle and engaging in small squad level squirmishes. Mine especially is a woman of action who was never fond of leading a giant organization and could easilyn decide, if no leads were developing, to go lead the hunt herself. Besides under my scenario IF this were to happpen she''d give up the position of Inquisitor because she can't be both secret agent Trevelyan (there's some irony for you) and the Inquisitor. Leading people into battle and engaging in small skirmishes are over relatively quickly and has a certainty of some kind of outcome. As a spy there's a very real possibility that you will get no information, and the length of time required to complete your mission ends up in years. So it becomes a question of resource management. Do you want the Inquisitor going off for years at a time, potentially pointlessly, or are they better off doing something else and having people who have time to spare doing the time consuming work? And if she gave up the title of Inquisitor, the question would remain the same. Would she sacrifice years of their life potentially pointlessly or are there other things she could be doing with their time?
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0
Member is Online
31,220
colfoley
16,558
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
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Post by colfoley on Apr 11, 2019 23:26:55 GMT
While your opinion is certainly worth considering i still tend to agree with Hanako. Despite their lofty status the Inq was very active leading troops into battle and engaging in small squad level squirmishes. Mine especially is a woman of action who was never fond of leading a giant organization and could easilyn decide, if no leads were developing, to go lead the hunt herself. Besides under my scenario IF this were to happpen she''d give up the position of Inquisitor because she can't be both secret agent Trevelyan (there's some irony for you) and the Inquisitor. Leading people into battle and engaging in small skirmishes are over relatively quickly and has a certainty of some kind of outcome. As a spy there's a very real possibility that you will get no information, and the length of time required to complete your mission ends up in years. So it becomes a question of resource management. Do you want the Inquisitor going off for years at a time, potentially pointlessly, or are they better off doing something else and having people who have time to spare doing the time consuming work? And if she gave up the title of Inquisitor, the question would remain the same. Would she sacrifice years of their life potentially pointlessly or are there other things she could be doing with their time? Theoretically and from a meta narrative standpoint sure, these are valid questions well worth pointing out. If this were real life having a four star general go off in deep cover in a foreign nation wouldn't be the smartest of moves. But IF BioWare inserts the Inquisitor into the narrative of DA 4 to stop Solas...we know they won't ultimatley be wasting their time. Especially since the teaser trailer for the game awards definitley showed off that Solas will play some role in the narrative of the game.
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0
7,210
river82
4,946
July 2017
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Post by river82 on Apr 11, 2019 23:31:14 GMT
Leading people into battle and engaging in small skirmishes are over relatively quickly and has a certainty of some kind of outcome. As a spy there's a very real possibility that you will get no information, and the length of time required to complete your mission ends up in years. So it becomes a question of resource management. Do you want the Inquisitor going off for years at a time, potentially pointlessly, or are they better off doing something else and having people who have time to spare doing the time consuming work? And if she gave up the title of Inquisitor, the question would remain the same. Would she sacrifice years of their life potentially pointlessly or are there other things she could be doing with their time? Theoretically and from a meta narrative standpoint sure, these are valid questions well worth pointing out. If this were real life having a four star general go off in deep cover in a foreign nation wouldn't be the smartest of moves. But IF BioWare inserts the Inquisitor into the narrative of DA 4 to stop Solas...we know they won't ultimatley be wasting their time. Especially since the teaser trailer for the game awards definitley showed off that Solas will play some role in the narrative of the game. It becomes a suspension of disbelief issue, like "plot armour". They could do it, sure, but I'd find it a bit too silly for me (from someone who loves Robert Ludlum's books ). Which is fine, some silly books are excellent (like Pratchett), but Dragon Age didn't start off like that so it's not really the sort of thing I'd expect from the series.
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Member is Online
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16,558
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Apr 12, 2019 1:09:11 GMT
Theoretically and from a meta narrative standpoint sure, these are valid questions well worth pointing out. If this were real life having a four star general go off in deep cover in a foreign nation wouldn't be the smartest of moves. But IF BioWare inserts the Inquisitor into the narrative of DA 4 to stop Solas...we know they won't ultimatley be wasting their time. Especially since the teaser trailer for the game awards definitley showed off that Solas will play some role in the narrative of the game. It becomes a suspension of disbelief issue, like "plot armour". They could do it, sure, but I'd find it a bit too silly for me (from someone who loves Robert Ludlum's books ). Which is fine, some silly books are excellent (like Pratchett), but Dragon Age didn't start off like that so it's not really the sort of thing I'd expect from the series. *shrugs* Sure such a situation might cause us to have to suspend our disbelief but then in my estimation bioware has already asked us to suspend our belief in a similar manner...and with this very character (as well as some of their other characters in their other franchises). And while it might've required us to suspend our disbelief and might've been bad writing even...they used it to good effect. To let us play a traditional RPG where we were the main hero character and could have an active role in the plot...not 'Command and Conquer: Thedas'. As far as the sillyness is concerned, at least in my estimation Inquisition wasn't a very 'silly' game and it already did something very similar so I don't see why it make the game/ series 'sillier'...then it already is.
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Post by river82 on Apr 12, 2019 1:39:42 GMT
As far as the sillyness is concerned, at least in my estimation Inquisition wasn't a very 'silly' game and it already did something very similar so I don't see why it make the game/ series 'sillier'...then it already is. Because it betrays common sense in a more serious manner than any other move in Inquisition. It is believable that the leader of an organisation leads a charge into battle, it is very not believable that they would, for no reason, waste years of time for likely no gain. Suspension of disbelief isn't a black and white line drawn on the ground that is "this is believable, and this is not". There is a video on youtube where an ex Navy Seal rips apart every military movie Hollywood puts out. Scientists rip apart a lot of science fiction. For them stories break their suspension of disbelief due to the amount of knowledge they hold on a particular subject. What creators have to keep in mind is whether something breaks suspension of disbelief for their target audience, which in this case is the casual lay person. And imo, having the Inquisitor as a common spy very much would. Breaking suspension of disbelief is almost never good. It jolts people out of the story and you don't want to jolt people out of the story. It's why people mock all the movies where the bad guys shoot a thousand rounds and never hit. One of the only ways to use it to good effect is parody.
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0
9,172
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,825
February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 12, 2019 20:52:00 GMT
Back in the day I remember a PnP game using suspension of disbelief as a game mechanic. The controlled character could shrug off wounds, reload weapons, etc., by accumulating suspension of disbelief points. But if you accumulate too many points, the reader throws the book down in disgust and you lose the game.
I keep waiting for this to show up in a CRPG.
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0
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river82
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July 2017
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Post by river82 on Apr 12, 2019 21:51:21 GMT
Back in the day I remember a PnP game using suspension of disbelief as a game mechanic. The controlled character could shrug off wounds, reload weapons, etc., by accumulating suspension of disbelief points. But if you accumulate too many points, the reader throws the book down in disgust and you lose the game. I keep waiting for this to show up in a CRPG. Sounds absolutely brilliant! An indie studio needs to do that ASAP
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Member is Online
31,220
colfoley
16,558
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
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Post by colfoley on Apr 12, 2019 23:28:56 GMT
Now as far as the three options on who the protagonist seems to be that are developing, well I have a few thoughts.
1. Tevinter Native/ Man without a defined country. This is obviously the most juicy. Despite the narrative problems a Tevinter native might cause it would give them a good opprotuinity to give us something like Origins origin stories or at the least get us invested in the land we might have to save from Solas/The rampaging Qunari. The man without a country is an entirely blank slate where we can make up whatever narrative we want. 2. The Inquisior. 3. An Agent of the Inquisition. This is the least palatable for me, why be a random dude tied to the Inquisition when you can be the genuine article themselves?
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inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Apr 13, 2019 0:02:28 GMT
I'm more hoping for a death mirroring that of Rendon; bleeding out on the floor, spitting impotent hatred. I want him dead, without dignity, without grace, by the hands of someone he doesn't respect, in a manner he can't accept, in the knowledge that he was a complete and utter failure as a leader, a revolutionary, and a man. I want that as an option.... But I don't want it to be the only possible outcome...
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0
Apr 24, 2024 17:52:07 GMT
3,019
OhDaniGirl
Incoming...
1,085
August 2016
ohdanigirl
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 13, 2019 0:08:03 GMT
I'm more hoping for a death mirroring that of Rendon; bleeding out on the floor, spitting impotent hatred. I want him dead, without dignity, without grace, by the hands of someone he doesn't respect, in a manner he can't accept, in the knowledge that he was a complete and utter failure as a leader, a revolutionary, and a man. I want that as an option.... But I don't want it to be the only possible outcome... Indeed. By all means, have the option to torture him mercilessly. As long as there are other options for those of us who aren't interested in that.
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inherit
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Member is Online
31,220
colfoley
16,558
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Apr 13, 2019 1:12:06 GMT
Meh if he is irredeamably evil I'd rather just stick an arrow in his eye and be done with it.
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2703
0
2,011
Lazarillo
1,025
January 2017
lazarillo
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by Lazarillo on Apr 13, 2019 2:44:01 GMT
I'm more hoping for a death mirroring that of Rendon; bleeding out on the floor, spitting impotent hatred. I want him dead, without dignity, without grace, by the hands of someone he doesn't respect, in a manner he can't accept, in the knowledge that he was a complete and utter failure as a leader, a revolutionary, and a man. I mean, he's got that nice, big forehead. So much space. I feel like it's ripe for decoration. ...with a brand of Tranquility.
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Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 14, 2019 6:11:42 GMT
Here's what I want:
"I expect you have... you're not the Inquis-gurk!"
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Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 14, 2019 6:21:23 GMT
Also, Dragon Age has always been very silly indeed, and anyone who says otherwise has simply not been paying attention.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
inherit
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0
2,469
wright1978
1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 14, 2019 8:13:29 GMT
I'm more hoping for a death mirroring that of Rendon; bleeding out on the floor, spitting impotent hatred. I want him dead, without dignity, without grace, by the hands of someone he doesn't respect, in a manner he can't accept, in the knowledge that he was a complete and utter failure as a leader, a revolutionary, and a man. That’s how i’d Like to see the inquisitor die.
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∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Sept 14, 2023 6:08:41 GMT
9,897
Ieldra
4,771
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 14, 2019 9:22:19 GMT
As far as the sillyness is concerned, at least in my estimation Inquisition wasn't a very 'silly' game and it already did something very similar so I don't see why it make the game/ series 'sillier'...then it already is. Because it betrays common sense in a more serious manner than any other move in Inquisition. It is believable that the leader of an organisation leads a charge into battle, it is very not believable that they would, for no reason, waste years of time for likely no gain. Suspension of disbelief isn't a black and white line drawn on the ground that is "this is believable, and this is not". There is a video on youtube where an ex Navy Seal rips apart every military movie Hollywood puts out. Scientists rip apart a lot of science fiction. For them stories break their suspension of disbelief due to the amount of knowledge they hold on a particular subject. What creators have to keep in mind is whether something breaks suspension of disbelief for their target audience, which in this case is the casual lay person. And imo, having the Inquisitor as a common spy very much would. Breaking suspension of disbelief is almost never good. It jolts people out of the story and you don't want to jolt people out of the story. It's why people mock all the movies where the bad guys shoot a thousand rounds and never hit. One of the only ways to use it to good effect is parody. There's another component of this. Sometimes people use the term "willing suspension of disbelief". This points at the fact that often we can enjoy the story knowing quite well some of its elements are silly from an even remotely realistic viewpoint. For instance, I'd be willing to forget about the implausibility of your Inquisitor scenario quite more readily than I was willing to forgive the MET's blatant disregard of known facts about genetics. A part of this is while the former is just implausible, the latter presents false information, and thus propagates fake RL science (as opposed to fake fictional science used to explain in-world extras like FTL or magic, which is necessary for the story to work), and even more to the point, it's fake science in a politically relevant area of science where your typical casual layperson isn't knowledgeable enough to know it as fake. It thus contributes to real-world disinformation in a way an obviously ludicrous plot setup never could. This is the kind of thing I'm not willing to forgive.
In anything else, my main concern is whether a story element changes the story's tone for me by my knowledge it's unrealistic, or catapults me out of the story. For instance, the over-the-top combat animations and the teleporting enemies changed DA2 into a parody for me, which is one reason why have a persistent and very serious hate of DA2's combat. And certain kinds of real-world references catapult me out of the story, which is why, as a rule, I don't like real-world references in fantasy or SF stories set in secondary worlds.
For the next DA, I prefer a story that takes itself more or less seriously. The story elements used should reflect that. Most of DAI was like that, except for everything that had to do with Corypheus. Which is why I liked the political elements of DAI more than the ones dealing with Corypheus, in spite of their straining my suspension of disbelief occasionally. Corypheus, however, was a parody, like Bioware's antagonists are likely to be, unfortunately. At least Solas hints at the possibility of something different. With regard to the protagonist, the story can work with a new protagonist, and it can also work with the ex-Inquisitor. My strong preference for the former has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief.
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