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Post by Catilina on Oct 22, 2016 22:48:26 GMT
Strange pleasure, but if you like this ... Pleasure? I derive no pleasure from it. Like I said, I'd have loved an option where he is arrested and stands trial. Regardless of opinion on the situation, but of the two choices we are limited to him dying for his crimes is the only right one. What he did is unforgivable and letting him go free without any form of consequence is objectively morally wrong. 1. NOTHING unforgivable. 2. What's your opinion about Chantry? Chantry don't deserve punishment? Or Elthina? Or Meredith? You killed Meredith just because he attacked your Hawke, I think. You sided with her happily, this is not an "unforgivable" sin? You wanted to help her to kill so much innocents.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 22, 2016 22:54:09 GMT
Pleasure? I derive no pleasure from it. Like I said, I'd have loved an option where he is arrested and stands trial. Regardless of opinion on the situation, but of the two choices we are limited to him dying for his crimes is the only right one. What he did is unforgivable and letting him go free without any form of consequence is objectively morally wrong. 1. NOTHING unforgivable. 2. What's your opinion about Chantry? Chantry don't deserve punishment? Or Elthina? Or Meredith? You killed Meredith just because he attacked your Hawke, I think. You sided with her happily, this is not an "unforgivable" sin? You wanted to help her to kill so much innocents. 1. Um, yes there is. 2. Chantry: As a whole, no. The vast majority of people in it have done nothing wrong. As for the few that have, yes they should face punishment. Elthina: Did nothing wrong. In fact she was the only person keeping Meredith from enacting the Right of Annulment, hence why Anders killed her. Meredith: Never sided with Meredith except one time just to get the achievement so I could have 100%. What she did is wrong as well and she should have faced trial for it too, however she goes crazy and attacks everyone, including her allies, and once defeated turns into a statue before you can do anything.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 22, 2016 23:07:30 GMT
1. NOTHING unforgivable. 2. What's your opinion about Chantry? Chantry don't deserve punishment? Or Elthina? Or Meredith? You killed Meredith just because he attacked your Hawke, I think. You sided with her happily, this is not an "unforgivable" sin? You wanted to help her to kill so much innocents. 1. Um, yes there is. 2. Chantry: As a whole, no. The vast majority of people in it have done nothing wrong. As for the few that have, yes they should face punishment. Elthina: Did nothing wrong. In fact she was the only person keeping Meredith from enacting the Right of Annulment, hence why Anders killed her. Meredith: Never sided with Meredith except one time just to get the achievement so I could have 100%. What she did is wrong as well and she should have faced trial for it too, however she goes crazy and attacks everyone, including her allies, and once defeated turns into a statue before you can do anything. Chanrty and Elthina is much more sinful than Anders. The institutionalized torture and murder is not a crime? Everyone has the right to oppose this. Moreover duty. The Chantry for a thousand years commanded imprisonment and torture of innocents people, and Elthina passively watching Meredith cruelty. Elthina innocent? NOT. She assisted to Meredith be able to "work" undisturbed. At least you not siding with Meredith. Good. Oh, yes, I almost forget: you like Merrill, okay, I see. (Wait! Merrill voted to keep alive Anders...)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 22, 2016 23:19:14 GMT
1. Um, yes there is. 2. Chantry: As a whole, no. The vast majority of people in it have done nothing wrong. As for the few that have, yes they should face punishment. Elthina: Did nothing wrong. In fact she was the only person keeping Meredith from enacting the Right of Annulment, hence why Anders killed her. Meredith: Never sided with Meredith except one time just to get the achievement so I could have 100%. What she did is wrong as well and she should have faced trial for it too, however she goes crazy and attacks everyone, including her allies, and once defeated turns into a statue before you can do anything. Chanrty and Elthina is sinful. The Chantry for a thousand years commanded imprisonment and torture of innocents people, and Elthina passively watching Meredith cruelty. Elthina innocent? NOT. She assisted to Meredith be able to "work" undisturbed. At least you not siding with Meredith. Good. Oh, yes, I almost forget: you like Merrill, okay, I see. (But Merrill Merrill voted to keep alive Anders...) No, it and they did not command that. The Circle system was formed via a mutual agreement among all parties, and it was only the corrupt actions of individuals that did those things. The vast majority of Templars in DAO and DAI and even a majority in DA2 were good people. As the old saying goes, 'A few bad apples spoil the bunch'. Elthina never assisted in Meredith's actions. If anything, she opposed them. Maybe you should play a Templar playthrough so you can actually see how much Elthina did to get in their way. As it stands now, you clearly do not have the whole picture or just refuse to acknowledge anything but what you want to. Even Anders acknowledges Elthina was not with Meredith. Yes, but Merrill says that he should come with us "Do what he can to make things right". She does not support or vote for Anders going free for his actions.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 22, 2016 23:24:19 GMT
Chanrty and Elthina is sinful. The Chantry for a thousand years commanded imprisonment and torture of innocents people, and Elthina passively watching Meredith cruelty. Elthina innocent? NOT. She assisted to Meredith be able to "work" undisturbed. At least you not siding with Meredith. Good. Oh, yes, I almost forget: you like Merrill, okay, I see. (But Merrill Merrill voted to keep alive Anders...) No, it and they did not command that. The Circle system was formed via a mutual agreement among all parties, and it was only the corrupt actions of individuals that did those things. The vast majority of Templars in DAO and DAI and even a majority in DA2 were good people. As the old saying goes, 'A few bad apples spoil the bunch'. Elthina never assisted in Meredith's actions. If anything, she opposed them. Maybe you should play a Templar playthrough so you can actually see how much Elthina did to get in their way. As it stands now, you clearly do not have the whole picture or just refuse to acknowledge anything but what you want to. Even Anders acknowledges Elthina was not with Meredith. Yes, but Merrill says that he should come with us "Do what he can to make things right". She does not support or vote for Anders going free for his actions. What "mutual" agreement? Bullshit. The mages don't want to going in jail. What Elthina did? Initiated the replacement of Meredith? This would the one thing, that can change my mind about Elthina.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 22, 2016 23:27:35 GMT
No, it and they did not command that. The Circle system was formed via a mutual agreement among all parties, and it was only the corrupt actions of individuals that did those things. The vast majority of Templars in DAO and DAI and even a majority in DA2 were good people. As the old saying goes, 'A few bad apples spoil the bunch'. Elthina never assisted in Meredith's actions. If anything, she opposed them. Maybe you should play a Templar playthrough so you can actually see how much Elthina did to get in their way. As it stands now, you clearly do not have the whole picture or just refuse to acknowledge anything but what you want to. Even Anders acknowledges Elthina was not with Meredith. Yes, but Merrill says that he should come with us "Do what he can to make things right". She does not support or vote for Anders going free for his actions. What "mutual" agreement? Bullshit. The mages don't want to going in jail. What Elthina did? Initiated the replacement of Meredith? This would the one thing, that can change my mind about Elthina. For centuries the Circles weren't jails. Heck, most Circles even in the Dragon Age weren't jails. You realize Kirkwall was the exception not the norm, right? Well, until Anders came along and made everything worse. Elthina has no authority to replace Meredith. That duty falls under the authority of the Seekers of Truth, not the Chantry. I would think her actively stopping the Right of Annulment, thus saving all mages in the Circle, would be enough.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 22, 2016 23:42:56 GMT
What "mutual" agreement? Bullshit. The mages don't want to going in jail. What Elthina did? Initiated the replacement of Meredith? This would the one thing, that can change my mind about Elthina. For centuries the Circles weren't jails. Heck, most Circles even in the Dragon Age weren't jails. You realize Kirkwall was the exception not the norm, right? Well, until Anders came along and made everything worse. Elthina has no authority to replace Meredith. That duty falls under the authority of the Seekers of Truth, not the Chantry. I would think her actively stopping the Right of Annulment, thus saving all mages in the Circle, would be enough. The Seekers of Truth is a Chantry's organisation, just as the Templars. She would be able to request Meredith's replacement, if she declare her dangerous. But she showed: she tolerate Meredith's cruelty. She was not neutral. BUT let's say: she is neutral. In her position the neutrality is a sin. Anders has done nothing worse when he came in Kirkwall. He just want to free Karl, and help the people in the Darktown. By the way where was "good" Chantry in the Darktown? Ferelden Circle was a jail – I saw, when I played mage origin. It was terrible! Kirkwall Circle was a jail. Which Circle wasn't a jail? I always wonder about it, why Anders is the main evil of the whole game. But at least you're not a hypocrite, you condemn everybody who is not completely innocent choirgirl/boy... Don't forget: Cullen (and Aveline) let Hawke and his/her group, included Anders go. Why Hawke's duty would to judge Anders? Hawke was a nobody in Kirkwall – thanks to Meredith. The Champion title was an empty title, as (sarcastic) Hawke said in MotA: "They gave me a medal. It's shiny" His/Her title was no more than a shiny medal. And maybe his/her (and his/her friends') freedom. But it is not approved him/her for anything. Therefore s/he not obliged to doing anything for Kirkwall. No one can expects him/her to kill his/her friend/lover, and become a murderer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 2:05:07 GMT
For centuries the Circles weren't jails. Heck, most Circles even in the Dragon Age weren't jails. You realize Kirkwall was the exception not the norm, right? Well, until Anders came along and made everything worse. Elthina has no authority to replace Meredith. That duty falls under the authority of the Seekers of Truth, not the Chantry. I would think her actively stopping the Right of Annulment, thus saving all mages in the Circle, would be enough. The Seekers of Truth is a Chantry's organisation, just as the Templars. She would be able to request Meredith's replacement, if she declare her dangerous. But she showed: she tolerate Meredith's cruelty. She was not neutral. BUT let's say: she is neutral. In her position the neutrality is a sin. Anders has done nothing worse when he came in Kirkwall. He just want to free Karl, and help the people in the Darktown. By the way where was "good" Chantry in the Darktown? Ferelden Circle was a jail – I saw, when I played mage origin. It was terrible! Kirkwall Circle was a jail. Which Circle wasn't a jail? I always wonder about it, why Anders is the main evil of the whole game. But at least you're not a hypocrite, you condemn everybody who is not completely innocent choirgirl/boy... Don't forget: Cullen (and Aveline) let Hawke and his/her group, included Anders go. Why Hawke's duty would to judge Anders? Hawke was a nobody in Kirkwall – thanks to Meredith. The Champion title was an empty title, as (sarcastic) Hawke said in MotA: "They gave me a medal. It's shiny" His/Her title was no more than a shiny medal. And maybe his/her (and his/her friends') freedom. But it is not approved him/her for anything. Therefore s/he not obliged to doing anything for Kirkwall. No one can expects him/her to kill his/her friend/lover, and become a murderer. No they aren't. While they are close allies with the Chantry and mostly follow their direction, the Templars and Seekers are not actually part of the Chantry but their own organization. As such when it comes to policing Templars, the Chantry has no such authority since it isn't under their jurisdiction but instead an internal problem. As for nor informing them or requesting a replacement, you have no evidence she didn't do such things. After all she and Leliana were supposed to meet in secret to discuss things. That was what Anders in Act 1 wanted. Anders in Act 2 and 3 wanted completely different things and you know that. How was the Circle in Ferelden a jail? Mages there were treated well, living better than most people in Ferelden, and were even allowed to leave the Circle sometimes if they were approved. What jail allows prisoners to leave for side trips? Who said he is the main evil of the whole game? He is one of several main evils in the whole game. Him, Petrice, the Red Lyrium idol, etc. As for Cullen and Aveline taking Hawke in, why would they? Hawke's actions, whether siding with mages or templars, was protecting the citizens of Kirkwall so the city guard has no reason to apprehend Hawke. As for Cullen, Hawke doesn't fall under Templar jurisdiction if not a mage, and if a mage is a case where the writing faltered. I disagree about th Champion of Kirkwall being an empty title or Hawke being a nobody. The city revered Hawke for stopping the Arishok's attack and considered them for the new Viscount. As for Meredith, even if you side with the Magesw consistently in Act 3 she still sees you as a person to respect, so it isn't even an empty position in her eyes. So Hawke is seen by everyone as in a position to judge people who threaten Kirkwall, in this case Anders.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 2:08:58 GMT
The Seekers of Truth is a Chantry's organisation, just as the Templars. She would be able to request Meredith's replacement, if she declare her dangerous. But she showed: she tolerate Meredith's cruelty. She was not neutral. BUT let's say: she is neutral. In her position the neutrality is a sin. Anders has done nothing worse when he came in Kirkwall. He just want to free Karl, and help the people in the Darktown. By the way where was "good" Chantry in the Darktown? Ferelden Circle was a jail – I saw, when I played mage origin. It was terrible! Kirkwall Circle was a jail. Which Circle wasn't a jail? I always wonder about it, why Anders is the main evil of the whole game. But at least you're not a hypocrite, you condemn everybody who is not completely innocent choirgirl/boy... Don't forget: Cullen (and Aveline) let Hawke and his/her group, included Anders go. Why Hawke's duty would to judge Anders? Hawke was a nobody in Kirkwall – thanks to Meredith. The Champion title was an empty title, as (sarcastic) Hawke said in MotA: "They gave me a medal. It's shiny" His/Her title was no more than a shiny medal. And maybe his/her (and his/her friends') freedom. But it is not approved him/her for anything. Therefore s/he not obliged to doing anything for Kirkwall. No one can expects him/her to kill his/her friend/lover, and become a murderer. No they aren't. While they are close allies with the Chantry and mostly follow their direction, the Templars and Seekers are not actually part of the Chantry but their own organization. As such when it comes to policing Templars, the Chantry has no such authority since it isn't under their jurisdiction but instead an internal problem. As for nor informing them or requesting a replacement, you have no evidence she didn't do such things. After all she and Leliana were supposed to meet in secret to discuss things. That was what Anders in Act 1 wanted. Anders in Act 2 and 3 wanted completely different things and you know that. How was the Circle in Ferelden a jail? Mages there were treated well, living better than most people in Ferelden, and were even allowed to leave the Circle sometimes if they were approved. What jail allows prisoners to leave for side trips? Who said he is the main evil of the whole game? He is one of several main evils in the whole game. Him, Petrice, the Red Lyrium idol, etc. As for Cullen and Aveline taking Hawke in, why would they? Hawke's actions, whether siding with mages or templars, was protecting the citizens of Kirkwall so the city guard has no reason to apprehend Hawke. As for Cullen, Hawke doesn't fall under Templar jurisdiction if not a mage, and if a mage is a case where the writing faltered. I disagree about th Champion of Kirkwall being an empty title or Hawke being a nobody. The city revered Hawke for stopping the Arishok's attack and considered them for the new Viscount. As for Meredith, even if you side with the Magesw consistently in Act 3 she still sees you as a person to respect, so it isn't even an empty position in her eyes. So Hawke is seen by everyone as in a position to judge people who threaten Kirkwall, in this case Anders. And why Anders purpose changed? Anders not evil. Then: you said: Cullen and Aveline don't have authority to arrest Anders, but Hawke have authority to execute Anders? Sorry, this is bullshit, as I see.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 2:13:40 GMT
Then: you said: Cullen and Aveline don't have authority to arrest Anders, but Hawke have authority to execute Anders? Sorry, this is bullshit, as I see. Oh no, both Aveline and Cullen have plenty of authority to arrest Anders. The fact neither do or how we can't even tell either of them Anders is making a bomb is one of the dumbest things in the game.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 2:24:26 GMT
Then: you said: Cullen and Aveline don't have authority to arrest Anders, but Hawke have authority to execute Anders? Sorry, this is bullshit, as I see. Oh no, both Aveline and Cullen have plenty of authority to arrest Anders. The fact neither do or how we can't even tell either of them Anders is making a bomb is one of the dumbest things in the game. We can betray Anders to Elthina. But Elthina don't interest for it, she believe: she is untouchable, and she don't care about Kirkwall, about mages, about anything but eternity... Hawke does not know what Anders plans. Why Cullen or/and Aveline haven't autority to arrest Anders at the end? Anders an apostate (yes, he is, because he left Grey Wardens), and blew up the Chantry.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 2:30:59 GMT
Oh no, both Aveline and Cullen have plenty of authority to arrest Anders. The fact neither do or how we can't even tell either of them Anders is making a bomb is one of the dumbest things in the game. We can betray Anders to Elthina. But Elthina don't interest for it, she believe: she is untouchable, and she don't care about Kirkwall, about mages, about anything but eternity... Hawke does not know what Anders plans. Why Cullen or/and Aveline haven't autority to arrest Anders at the end? Anders an apostate (yes, he is, because he left Grey Wardens), and blew up the Chantry. We can? I don't recall us being able to warn Elthina about Anders' plot. We can warn her about the Revolutionaries, but not him. Bioware made sure we couldn't stop Anders since the whole game is telling the events that led up to it and what came after. It was obvious he was making a bomb, at least for many players. The ingredients we get for him are renamed resources we have used to make explosives here on Earth. And then he wants to sneak into a secret place to plant it while we distract her? Yeah any Hawke who didn't realize his plan was either a complete idiot or wanted the bomb to go off. Not very open for roleplaying. They do have the authority to arrest Anders. I wish they did.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 2:54:53 GMT
We can betray Anders to Elthina. But Elthina don't interest for it, she believe: she is untouchable, and she don't care about Kirkwall, about mages, about anything but eternity... Hawke does not know what Anders plans. Why Cullen or/and Aveline haven't autority to arrest Anders at the end? Anders an apostate (yes, he is, because he left Grey Wardens), and blew up the Chantry. We can? I don't recall us being able to warn Elthina about Anders' plot. We can warn her about the Revolutionaries, but not him. Bioware made sure we couldn't stop Anders since the whole game is telling the events that led up to it and what came after. It was obvious he was making a bomb, at least for many players. The ingredients we get for him are renamed resources we have used to make explosives here on Earth. And then he wants to sneak into a secret place to plant it while we distract her? Yeah any Hawke who didn't realize his plan was either a complete idiot or wanted the bomb to go off. Not very open for roleplaying. They do have the authority to arrest Anders. I wish they did. WHY they did not have authority? WHY? AFTER that Anders blew the Chantry. After the battle? Hawke have authority to execute a man, but Cullen, a templar, and Aveline a guard captain dont have authority to arrest a man?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 2:58:46 GMT
We can? I don't recall us being able to warn Elthina about Anders' plot. We can warn her about the Revolutionaries, but not him. Bioware made sure we couldn't stop Anders since the whole game is telling the events that led up to it and what came after. It was obvious he was making a bomb, at least for many players. The ingredients we get for him are renamed resources we have used to make explosives here on Earth. And then he wants to sneak into a secret place to plant it while we distract her? Yeah any Hawke who didn't realize his plan was either a complete idiot or wanted the bomb to go off. Not very open for roleplaying. They do have the authority to arrest Anders. I wish they did. WHY they did not have authority? WHY? AFTER that Anders blew the Chantry. After the battle? Why are you asking me? I didn't write the game. I would have liked for them to have arrested him before anything happened because I would have liked to have warned somebody.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 3:01:58 GMT
WHY they did not have authority? WHY? AFTER that Anders blew the Chantry. After the battle? Why are you asking me? I didn't write the game. I would have liked for them to have arrested him before anything happened because I would have liked to have warned somebody. I ask because you say, that to punish Anders is Hawke's responsibility. Well, it's not. S/He can do it, but not his/her responsibility.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 3:12:09 GMT
I kill that warmongering terrorist abomination every time. Granted I would have liked other options like him being imprisoned for the rest of his life and face justice for all the innocent people whose lives he ended or ruined. But since the choices are execute him or let him get away with it, he always dies in my playthroughs. I ask because you say, that to punish Anders is Hawke's responsibility. Well, it's not. What? We were talking about whether or not the Inquisitor judging Anders as one of the judgments should have been in the game. No, the starting point was YOU always kill this "terrorist abomination". And I said, this is NOT Hawke's responsibility. Yes, that would be nice, but at that moment the Inquisition don't exist, and as you said: nobody was able to arrest him. Blame the writers.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 3:13:38 GMT
I kill that warmongering terrorist abomination every time. Granted I would have liked other options like him being imprisoned for the rest of his life and face justice for all the innocent people whose lives he ended or ruined. But since the choices are execute him or let him get away with it, he always dies in my playthroughs. What? We were talking about whether or not the Inquisitor judging Anders as one of the judgments should have been in the game. No, the starting point was YOU always kill this "terrorist abomination". And I said, this is NOT Hawke's responsibility. Yes, that would be nice, but at that moment the Inquisition don't exist, and as you said: nobady was able to arrest him. Blame the writers. Oops. Thought this was the other thread. My apologies. And I do blame the writers for this mess that is the Anders situation. I have said as much.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 3:17:46 GMT
Why are you asking me? I didn't write the game. I would have liked for them to have arrested him before anything happened because I would have liked to have warned somebody. I ask because you say, that to punish Anders is Hawke's responsibility. Well, it's not. S/He can do it, but not his/her responsibility. I never said it was Hawke's responsibility. Your post here is the first time responsibility came up.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 3:23:58 GMT
I ask because you say, that to punish Anders is Hawke's responsibility. Well, it's not. S/He can do it, but not his/her responsibility. I never said it was Hawke's responsibility. Your post here is the first time responsibility came up. This:
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 3:34:25 GMT
Then: you said: Cullen and Aveline don't have authority to arrest Anders, but Hawke have authority to execute Anders? Sorry, this is bullshit, as I see. Oh no, both Aveline and Cullen have plenty of authority to arrest Anders. The fact neither do or how we can't even tell either of them Anders is making a bomb is one of the dumbest things in the game. Indeed .. sorry I misunderstood you here. It's a pretty stupid solution, but the writers wanted that Anders to blow up the Chantry, in any event. But you wrong: Hawke hadn't knew, what Anders to plan. Perhaps the PLAYER knew, that Anders want to making a bomb, but NOT HAWKE. Hawke =/= player.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 16:20:46 GMT
This is Elthina: source
She did NOTHING to stop Meredith's madness. She didn't care about Kirkwall.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 17:30:15 GMT
This is Elthina: source
She did NOTHING to stop Meredith's madness. She didn't care about Kirkwall. Okay, I have to say while I disagree with what you are saying that reskinning of that meme is hilarious.
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kalvarez
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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kalvarez
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by kalvarez on Oct 23, 2016 20:42:05 GMT
No they aren't. While they are close allies with the Chantry and mostly follow their direction, the Templars and Seekers are not actually part of the Chantry but their own organization. As such when it comes to policing Templars, the Chantry has no such authority since it isn't under their jurisdiction but instead an internal problem. As for nor This is completely false. Templars and Seekers served the Chantry in every sense of the word, until they declared their independence. And all circles were jails. The original Cole died of starvation in Orlais' Circle. I believe the only one that got something good out of the Circles, was Vivienne. Her case is the exception. They're worse than jails, as that would imply every mage commited a crime. They're basically a "light version" of concentration camps, where you know death is waiting for you if you step out of the line . I side eye everyone who claims they work or are moral.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 23, 2016 21:39:21 GMT
No they aren't. While they are close allies with the Chantry and mostly follow their direction, the Templars and Seekers are not actually part of the Chantry but their own organization. As such when it comes to policing Templars, the Chantry has no such authority since it isn't under their jurisdiction but instead an internal problem. As for nor This is completely false. Templars and Seekers served the Chantry in every sense of the word, until they declared their independence. And all circles were jails. The original Cole died of starvation in Orlais' Circle. I believe the only one that got something good out of the Circles, was Vivienne. Her case is the exception. They're worse than jails, as that would imply every mage commited a crime. They're basically a "light version" of concentration camps, where you know death is waiting for you if you step out of the line . I side eye everyone who claims they work or are moral. No, the Nevarran Accords have them as working together with the Chantry, not under the Chantry. The compliment each others' weaknesses so the alliance is extremely strong, until the two leaders had different views to the point cooperation was no longer possible and the breakaway happened. The situation with Cole is the exception, considering the Templar who negected him and resulted in his death was expelled from the Order. If that was the norm, that wouldn't have been the punishment. There are many examples of people getting things good out of the Circles, including multiple companions. They are not concentration camps. The best comparison is at worst they were internment camps, which while not right is not the same as a concentration camp. The Circles absolutely work. They work so well that even Tevinter has Circles. Even the rebel mages see that they still need something like the Circles.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 23, 2016 22:09:08 GMT
This is completely false. Templars and Seekers served the Chantry in every sense of the word, until they declared their independence. And all circles were jails. The original Cole died of starvation in Orlais' Circle. I believe the only one that got something good out of the Circles, was Vivienne. Her case is the exception. They're worse than jails, as that would imply every mage commited a crime. They're basically a "light version" of concentration camps, where you know death is waiting for you if you step out of the line . I side eye everyone who claims they work or are moral. No, the Nevarran Accords have them as working together with the Chantry, not under the Chantry. The compliment each others' weaknesses so the alliance is extremely strong, until the two leaders had different views to the point cooperation was no longer possible and the breakaway happened. The situation with Cole is the exception, considering the Templar who negected him and resulted in his death was expelled from the Order. If that was the norm, that wouldn't have been the punishment. There are many examples of people getting things good out of the Circles, including multiple companions. They are not concentration camps. The best comparison is at worst they were internment camps, which while not right is not the same as a concentration camp. The Circles absolutely work. They work so well that even Tevinter has Circles. Even the rebel mages see that they still need something like the Circles. The whole Circle system are wrong. Of course the Circles are can be useful as schools and libraries. Therefore, exists the Circles in Tevinter. No one is saying that there is no need an institution where the mages are trained safely and where to collect the accumulated knowledge. But not as jails or internment camps with prison guards who have unlimited power over the mages. All Circles are prisons, this is not a question. I played with DAO, mage origin, before DA2, then I don't knew about Kirkwall Circle when I found Ferelden Circle awful and unbearable.
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