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Post by Ieldra on Dec 27, 2018 8:46:29 GMT
I'll approach DA4 with pretty much the same mindset as its predecessors: if there is an intriguing NPC who's implemented as a possible romance and compatible in body and mind with my player character, then I'll engage with this optional content, otherwise, I'll play the game with no romance and won't consider myself as having lost out on anything. Having a SO isn't intrinsically preferable to not having one (though I guess this opinion could go into the "unpopular opinions" thread).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 27, 2018 8:50:29 GMT
Are you referring to when he says the one guard knows who he is since they shared drinks and said things like “what a night it was?” Yea Ah, okay. I never saw that scene as implying they had that kind of night but more they just had some drinks and stuff like that. We could ask the writer of the comic. He has answered questions like that about Aaron and Vaea, the former being straight and the latter so far not having an attraction towards anybody. Edit: I asked. Hopefully we have an answer soon.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 27, 2018 9:03:04 GMT
I'm surprised DA comics don't have more gay/bi dudes, just the obligatory Dorian here and there. I hope that isn't foretelling for DA4. Dorian needs to piss off, he is not that great.
Calix looks really meh though. No thanks for me.
Also this '' promiscuous '' gay men trope isn't something Bioware has been doing, but '' promiscuous bi man who seems to prefer women '' does ring a bell. Promiscuousity isn't something I'm worried about personally but I don't think it's attractive in a person to shag several people just for the fun of it.
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Post by leadintea on Dec 27, 2018 9:34:08 GMT
I don't personally care if the M/M love interest is promiscuous (there's absolutely nothing wrong with being promiscuous). But I understand why other gay men want DA to break away from that stereotype. It's funny how many people in here want to romance a dwarf. Dwarves are like the only thing in DA that I would absolutely NOT want to romance. Lol. But again it's not just the promiscuity. It's the combination of that and just how offhanded their m/m context is.Hopefully Calix will surprise me. Yeah, I don't mind promiscuity that much, but I do agree that it's frustrating for bi male characters to rarely have their male lovers acknowledged or be treated as seriously as their female lovers.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 27, 2018 9:43:51 GMT
But again it's not just the promiscuity. It's the combination of that and just how offhanded their m/m context is.Hopefully Calix will surprise me. Yeah, I don't mind promiscuity that much, but I do agree that it's frustrating for bi male characters to rarely have their male lovers acknowledged or be treated as seriously as their female lovers. It would be just nice for a bi dude to openly and casually (or less casually) flirt or show interest in men, not as a way to make straight companions uncomfortable either, but just because... he is interested in men as well as women.
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Post by leadintea on Dec 27, 2018 10:14:12 GMT
Yeah, I don't mind promiscuity that much, but I do agree that it's frustrating for bi male characters to rarely have their male lovers acknowledged or be treated as seriously as their female lovers. It would be just nice for a bi dude to openly and casually (or less casually) flirt or show interest in men, not as a way to make straight companions uncomfortable either, but just because... he is interested in men as well as women. Agree. For me though it's not necessarily flirting with men but things like needing to ask male players whether it's okay to start flirting with them, only sharing information regarding an ex-boyfriend to male players and not female, only mentioning romantic/sexual relations they've had with women but not men (outside of a willing male player or the token gay character), and so on that really gets to me. It really annoyed me that Reyes gets a visit from his ex-girlfriend in MEA for all players to see while only male characters that flirt with him get the 'I prefer men more' note in their inbox. It's disheartening to see meaningful male relationships or preferences towards male that bi men have either omitted from the game, downplayed, or squirreled away so that only specific players/characters get to see it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 11:35:06 GMT
Yeah, for me, it’s not the promiscuity that bothers me. It’s that literally every bisexual male character has shown a preference for females.
Sky - has a dead wife and has never thought of being with a man until the PC propositions him; has to ‘think about it’ before the romance can continue; locked behind ‘are you sure?’ dialogue options
Zevran - talks about a bunch of past lovers, but only explicitly mentions one man (a prince); hits on all of the female companions even after you’ve romanced him as a guy; locked behind ‘are you sure?’ dialogue options
Fenris - ends up sleeping with isabela if unromanced; has ‘Is it because I’m a man?’ dialogue options
Anders - mentions women a lot during DA:A but no men; has his m/m content locked behind male Hawke only restriction so female Hawkes don’t see it
Kaiden - mentions his attraction to asari on several occasions: no attraction to males other than PC; m/m romance is the same animations/dialogue as the straight one but is missing several scenes
Bull - mentions his attraction to red headed women and/or elven women and/or serving girls several times; in fairness, he does romance Dorian if both are unromanced but this is only triggered if you have them both in the party for enough dialogue to occur
Reyes - has an ex-girlfriend in the game; no mention of attraction to other men unless flirted with by the male PC
I have no issue with bisexual guys preferring females. It happens. But it would be nice to have one that prefers males or at least doesn’t have mandatory ‘I also like girls’ content in your face. It happens with the m/m content a lot (hiding it behind the gendered flirts), so let’s reverse it and have a bisexual guy who openly discusses his attraction to men and even prefers men over women. I’m down for that!
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 27, 2018 12:15:56 GMT
I remember when Allan Schumacher dropped by and listened to concerns about stuff like this (esp "bisexual male characters almost exclusively focus on women" and "the moral upstanding warrior love interest is always straight" - and then had everyone clarify what they meant by that). Then he went and made a poll on twitter trying to suss out whether people preferred the multiple sexualities route vs. the all bi LIs route. So I feel pretty optimistic about how these things'll be handled in the future, even if it's a cautious optimism. 👀😛
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 13:34:25 GMT
I remember when Allan Schumacher dropped by and listened to concerns about stuff like this (esp "bisexual male characters almost exclusively focus on women" and "the moral upstanding warrior love interest is always straight" - and then had everyone clarify what they meant by that). Then he went and made a poll on twitter trying to suss out whether people preferred the multiple sexualities route vs. the all bi LIs route. So I feel pretty optimistic about how these things'll be handled in the future, even if it's a cautious optimism. 👀😛 Aw! Allan. I really like him and enjoyed his presence on the old boards.
That being said, I believe most of those discussions with Allan happened pre-MEA and look at what a clusterfuck that game's romances were. I do have a ton of faith in Patrick Weekes, though. I'm cautiously optimistic. Versus being cautiously skeptical pre-MEA (which turned out to be the right position).
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 27, 2018 13:59:13 GMT
I don't really do anything with the information whether a bisexual character prefers the opposite or the same sex. The only thing I would like is bisexual men showing open interest in men. That's all.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 27, 2018 14:27:58 GMT
I dont give a fuck about that lol I think we'd miss out on a lot of great concepts if a gay KISA is supposed to be human, especially since elves, qunari and dwarves are most likely finally getting more lore relevancy. I want the Prince Charming archetype but in gay, if they focus that essence into a non-human for me is not the same, an insult even. It's like saying that gay humans can not be in that kind of roles, so big no, I had enough with seeing chivalry stuff being cut from m/m romances to see that again, Kaidan is an example. Human or bust. Delris was just a waste and I hate he's dead because I'm a mage trash. After that, they can do KISA of every race and I would be the happiest gaymer in this planet since I tend to prefer non-humans
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 27, 2018 14:38:28 GMT
I think we'd miss out on a lot of great concepts if a gay KISA is supposed to be human, especially since elves, qunari and dwarves are most likely finally getting more lore relevancy. I want the Prince Charming archetype but in gay, if they focus that essence into a non-human for me is not the same, an insult even. It's like saying that gay humans can not be in that kind of roles, so big no, I had enough with seeing chivalry stuff being cut from m/m romances to see that again, Kaidan is an example. Human or bust. Delris was just a waste and I hate he's dead because I'm a mage trash. After that, they can do KISA of every race and I would be the happiest gaymer in this planet since I tend to prefer non-humans That is the reach of the century.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 27, 2018 14:42:38 GMT
I want the Prince Charming archetype but in gay, if they focus that essence into a non-human for me is not the same, an insult even. It's like saying that gay humans can not be in that kind of roles, so big no, I had enough with seeing chivalry stuff being cut from m/m romances to see that again, Kaidan is an example. Human or bust. Delris was just a waste and I hate he's dead because I'm a mage trash. After that, they can do KISA of every race and I would be the happiest gaymer in this planet since I tend to prefer non-humans That is the reach of the century. Well Bioware have never done a chivalrous male character before that fancy men before (Kaidan and Jaal dont count because we had to fight for them) so I wouldnt call it a reach, just #facts.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 27, 2018 14:54:21 GMT
That is the reach of the century. Well Bioware have never done a chivalrous male character before that fancy men before (Kaidan and Jaal dont count because we had to fight for them) so I wouldnt call it a reach, just #facts. It is a reach that if Bioware made a chivalrous princely gay male character, he'd have to be human, otherwise Bioware is claiming that gay HUMAN men can't be chivalrous and princely KISAs. I think it'd be neat to be courted by an elf, male elves are often feminized and made to be submissive, so it'd be a nice change of pace to get an elf who was masculine, dominant and protective towards his male partner. Dwarves would be neat as well, not to mention Qunari, I don't see how not being human makes them any less of a neat candidate for a KISA. Of course, if you are looking for an actual DISNEY PRINCE, being royalty and coming in with his mighty steed to rescue you, it's probably easier inside the Dragon Age world for such a character to be human, especially in Tevinter. But I don't think a gay Disney Prince will be in the roster in a game that takes place in Tevinter to begin with though. Of course you can hope. In the end, ALL of the Bioware gay men have been humans. All, of, them. So I'm rooting for anything else except a gay human. Oh, and before any lurking dev get's a headache: the only thing that's REALLY important is just getting a new gay male character, with a great romance, and plot importance. And if it has to be a human KISA, fine, go for it. (Let's just hope he looks more like Blackwall and less like Cullen)
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 27, 2018 15:13:42 GMT
I remember when Allan Schumacher dropped by and listened to concerns about stuff like this (esp "bisexual male characters almost exclusively focus on women" and "the moral upstanding warrior love interest is always straight" - and then had everyone clarify what they meant by that). Then he went and made a poll on twitter trying to suss out whether people preferred the multiple sexualities route vs. the all bi LIs route. So I feel pretty optimistic about how these things'll be handled in the future, even if it's a cautious optimism. 👀😛 Aw! Allan. I really like him and enjoyed his presence on the old boards.
That being said, I believe most of those discussions with Allan happened pre-MEA and look at what a clusterfuck that game's romances were. I do have a ton of faith in Patrick Weekes, though. I'm cautiously optimistic. Versus being cautiously skeptical pre-MEA (which turned out to be the right position).
I feel like there’s this weird perception (rightly or wrongly) that the overall Mass Effect fanbase is slightly more... bro-y than the Dragon Age fanbase. Their romance options have always seemed to be more conservative than the DA ones, long before Andromeda.
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 27, 2018 15:27:33 GMT
I haven't changed my mind in the last two years - I'm still really hoping for a gay human warrior from Rivain. Who's a KISA. And maybe plz a werewolf. Bonus points, if he has a darker complexion, because we've yet to have a black male companion.
I'm hoping for someone from Rivain specifically, because we've yet to see a knightly warrior in DA (male or female), who's not weary (or dismissive) of magic. An Avvar would work for me too for the same reason. We could have someone like that from anywhere, but an LI, who was raised in a place where magic is treated as normal, like the non-Andrastian cultures, would be best.
And also add a romanceable female bi/gay KISA, because our sisters have been denied for way too long as well.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 27, 2018 15:30:05 GMT
the Alistair's rose scene or how awkwardly he is when he's asking you to spend the night together? I want that in gay I dont care if he's young or old tbh but I loved the sapiness from Alistair, even his childish personality lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 15:32:25 GMT
I want the Prince Charming archetype but in gay, if they focus that essence into a non-human for me is not the same, an insult even. It's like saying that gay humans can not be in that kind of roles, so big no, I had enough with seeing chivalry stuff being cut from m/m romances to see that again, Kaidan is an example. Human or bust. Delris was just a waste and I hate he's dead because I'm a mage trash. After that, they can do KISA of every race and I would be the happiest gaymer in this planet since I tend to prefer non-humans It is a reach that if Bioware made a chivalrous princely gay male character, he'd have to be human, otherwise Bioware is claiming that gay HUMAN men can't be chivalrous and princely KISAs. I think it'd be neat to be courted by an elf, male elves are often feminized and made to be submissive, so it'd be a nice change of pace to get an elf who was masculine, dominant and protective towards his male partner. Dwarves would be neat as well, not to mention Qunari, I don't see how not being human makes them any less of a neat candidate for a KISA. Of course, if you are looking for an actual DISNEY PRINCE, being royalty and coming in with his mighty steed to rescue you, it's probably easier inside the Dragon Age world for such a character to be human, especially in Tevinter. But I don't think a gay Disney Prince will be in the roster in a game that takes place in Tevinter to begin with though. Of course you can hope. In the end, ALL of the Bioware gay men have been humans. All, of, them. So I'm rooting for anything else except a gay human. Oh, and before any lurking dev get's a headache: the only thing that's REALLY important is just getting a new gay male character, with a great romance, and plot importance. And if it has to be a human KISA, fine, go for it. (Let's just hope he looks more like Blackwall and less like Cullen) I agree and disagree with both of you. I have no problem with a gay KISA character being a non-human race. In fact, I would prefer it since, like nick, I also prefer non-human LIs if possible. My one concern with that would be the likelihood of him being less plot relevant would increase since the "main/plot relevant LI" characters are typically human (with Solas being the notable exception). If we did get a gay KISA in the next game, then I also wouldn't mind if he was a 'classically' handsome Cullen/Alistair type either. I know that we've seen that kind of guy a few times now, but I actually really like it and we haven't gotten that for gay guys. Although, I'm certainly not at all mad at a Blackwall "bear" type either. I just wouldn't mind if we got the "classic hunk" type for once. Outside of Kaidan, none of the m/m LI's really fit that niche.
Regardless, what I really want is that the gay guy is a party member again (2/3 have been NPCs). Bonus points if the bisexual guy is also a party member, so that I can run with another all LGBT party. We've had that in the last two DA games, so I don't want to lose it in this one (especially if we get Mae as a companion as well!).
Also, hot take, but I'd like to see a really feminine gay/bisexual guy as well. They are always pretty "straight acting" and I feel like it would be nice to have a really fabulous femme guy in the group for once.
Aw! Allan. I really like him and enjoyed his presence on the old boards.
That being said, I believe most of those discussions with Allan happened pre-MEA and look at what a clusterfuck that game's romances were. I do have a ton of faith in Patrick Weekes, though. I'm cautiously optimistic. Versus being cautiously skeptical pre-MEA (which turned out to be the right position).
I feel like there’s this weird perception (rightly or wrongly) that the overall Mass Effect fanbase is slightly more... bro-y than the Dragon Age fanbase. Their romance options have always seemed to be more conservative than the DA ones, long before Andromeda. I do think that ME tends to have some more of the FPS crowd in the fan-base and that they have, historically, not been as "cool" with inclusion. I also feel like the devs on ME have been more "bro-y" too. It's why I was initially concerned about ME:A. Turns out I was right. Gay guys got the least developed NPC on the ship and the second least developed planet based NPC as our options. Yes, Jaal was eventually retconned, so it feels more balanced. But that wasn't the dev's intentions which is telling. But DA's devs have always seemed to be more open to including prominent LGBT characters. So I'm much less concerned about DA4 in that regard. I'm sure they'll do us well.
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 27, 2018 15:36:19 GMT
I feel like there’s this weird perception (rightly or wrongly) that the overall Mass Effect fanbase is slightly more... bro-y than the Dragon Age fanbase. Their romance options have always seemed to be more conservative than the DA ones, long before Andromeda. Well, that's hard to measure, but the dev team did seem more bro-y, given that they were super against a gay male Shepard for two games, while having all other types of romances from the start. Even they themselves undermined the defense they had that Shepard is never gay ("because the Asari are monogendered and not female"), by adding Kelly in ME2. 'd
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 15:37:47 GMT
At the risk of double posting, I did think of another question that I wanted to get people's thoughts on: What if there was a 'traditionlist' Magister LI? One who revels in the mage supremacy and eugenics of the Tevinter nobility. And you could romance him/her, but only if you were a human mage of the opposite gender (since they need to keep their bloodline pure)? Personally, I wouldn't go for it, but it might be an interesting RP option for those who want to play that way.
Alternately, maybe there could be a "become the mistress/plaything" option (like with Alistair and non-human women) to make it less "niche"?
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Dec 27, 2018 15:44:25 GMT
I agree and disagree with both of you. I have no problem with a gay KISA character being a non-human race. In fact, I would prefer it since, like nick, I also prefer non-human LIs if possible. bitch what! Dwarves are just tiny hoomans, call me when you taste that precious angara' gogurt for real, a dwarf that can lift you -a person twice his size- with his strong arms... I agree and disagree with both of you. I have no problem with a gay KISA character being a non-human race. In fact, I would prefer it since, like nick, I also prefer non-human LIs if possible. Also, hot take, but I'd like to see a really feminine gay/bisexual guy as well. They are always pretty "straight acting" and I feel like it would be nice to have a really fabulous femme guy in the group for once.
This, Dorian was close to that being flamboyant but imo was handled badly with his backstory and all, I would like to see feminine gay guys without real gay angst plz. Same with butch lesbians, Bioware tend to do their f/f characters super feminine to appease their bro fanbase.
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 27, 2018 15:46:28 GMT
Although, I'm certainly not at all mad at a Blackwall "bear" type either. Man, Bara Warden, everyone was sure he'd be an LI for male protagonists... Having someone with a body type so popular among gay/bi men locked away was such a let down, especially since a lot of female players complained about his looks...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 15:50:59 GMT
This, Dorian was close to that being flamboyant but imo was handled badly with his backstory and all, I would like to see feminine gay guys without real gay angst plz. Same with butch lesbians, Bioware tend to do their f/f characters super feminine to appease their bro fanbase. I would be ALL OVER a butch lesbian warrior lady. Give me that Sara Ramirez butch realness and I'll make a little 'chapstick lesbian' dwarf so quickly, your head will spin. LOL. Man, Bara Warden, everyone was sure he'd be an LI for male protagonists... Having someone with a body type so popular among gay/bi men locked away was such a let down, especially since a lot of female players complained about his looks... It's ultimately why I broke my streak and went for a straight romance. I didn't intend it. I thought my lady Cadash was going for Josephine or Sera. But I (the player) couldn't resist an older bearded Daddy.
Speaking of body types -- Seeing my PC Adaar up beside Bull makes me realize how different Bull's body type is than the PC qunari. And me likey!
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Post by Ieldra on Dec 27, 2018 15:52:15 GMT
At the risk of double posting, I did think of another question that I wanted to get people's thoughts on: What if there was a 'traditionlist' Magister LI? One who revels in the mage supremacy and eugenics of the Tevinter nobility. And you could romance him/her, but only if you were a human mage of the opposite gender (since they need to keep their bloodline pure)? Personally, I wouldn't go for it, but it might be an interesting RP option for those who want to play that way. A very interesting idea. I'd probably go for it if that person avoids the human sacrifice, or you can make it so they do without ditching the rest of the ideology as well. I prefer playing human mages anyway, and I don't think mage supremacism is any worse than most of the other systems used to determine who gets to rule on Thedas.
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Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 27, 2018 15:53:12 GMT
I want the Prince Charming archetype but in gay, if they focus that essence into a non-human for me is not the same, an insult even. It's like saying that gay humans can not be in that kind of roles, so big no, I had enough with seeing chivalry stuff being cut from m/m romances to see that again, Kaidan is an example. Human or bust. Delris was just a waste and I hate he's dead because I'm a mage trash. After that, they can do KISA of every race and I would be the happiest gaymer in this planet since I tend to prefer non-humans It is a reach that if Bioware made a chivalrous princely gay male character, he'd have to be human, otherwise Bioware is claiming that gay HUMAN men can't be chivalrous and princely KISAs. I think it'd be neat to be courted by an elf, male elves are often feminized and made to be submissive, so it'd be a nice change of pace to get an elf who was masculine, dominant and protective towards his male partner. Dwarves would be neat as well, not to mention Qunari, I don't see how not being human makes them any less of a neat candidate for a KISA. Of course, if you are looking for an actual DISNEY PRINCE, being royalty and coming in with his mighty steed to rescue you, it's probably easier inside the Dragon Age world for such a character to be human, especially in Tevinter. But I don't think a gay Disney Prince will be in the roster in a game that takes place in Tevinter to begin with though. Of course you can hope. In the end, ALL of the Bioware gay men have been humans. All, of, them. So I'm rooting for anything else except a gay human. Oh, and before any lurking dev get's a headache: the only thing that's REALLY important is just getting a new gay male character, with a great romance, and plot importance. And if it has to be a human KISA, fine, go for it. (Let's just hope he looks more like Blackwall and less like Cullen) I agree and disagree with both of you. I have no problem with a gay KISA character being a non-human race. In fact, I would prefer it since, like nick, I also prefer non-human LIs if possible. My one concern with that would be the likelihood of him being less plot relevant would increase since the "main/plot relevant LI" characters are typically human (with Solas being the notable exception). If we did get a gay KISA in the next game, then I also wouldn't mind if he was a 'classically' handsome Cullen/Alistair type either. I know that we've seen that kind of guy a few times now, but I actually really like it and we haven't gotten that for gay guys. Although, I'm certainly not at all mad at a Blackwall "bear" type either. I just wouldn't mind if we got the "classic hunk" type for once. Outside of Kaidan, none of the m/m LI's really fit that niche.
Regardless, what I really want is that the gay guy is a party member again (2/3 have been NPCs). Bonus points if the bisexual guy is also a party member, so that I can run with another all LGBT party. We've had that in the last two DA games, so I don't want to lose it in this one (especially if we get Mae as a companion as well!).
Also, hot take, but I'd like to see a really feminine gay/bisexual guy as well. They are always pretty "straight acting" and I feel like it would be nice to have a really fabulous femme guy in the group for once. We haven't had notable non-human NPCs because most of the stories revolve around human nonsense. DA4 really feels like it's turning up to be a game where humans aren't the most important people in the world. So I wouldn't throw my towel because of that. I'm personally tired of this one ideal type of gay man being trotted around every piece of media ever. Short haired, perfect sixpack abs, not too skinny, not too fat, SHORT HAIR AGAIN, a little stubble.. I wouldn't be too happy about the same formula that is everywhere, being used in a fantasy game where you can be a bit more adventuresome. Jason Momoa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris *snore* Evans. Obviously I wouldn't throw an LI away just because of that, but I really want captivating designs, not copypaste ken dolls. I'd like feminine men in the game as well, but just so we're clear, feminine =/= stereotypical sassy gay YAASS GURLLL SNAP SNAP SNAP. I think we got enough '' fabulous '' in Dorian, and that's about as much as I can take.
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