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Post by jjdxb on Dec 27, 2018 15:58:18 GMT
Well Bioware have never done a chivalrous male character before that fancy men before (Kaidan and Jaal dont count because we had to fight for them) so I wouldnt call it a reach, just #facts. It is a reach that if Bioware made a chivalrous princely gay male character, he'd have to be human, otherwise Bioware is claiming that gay HUMAN men can't be chivalrous and princely KISAs. I think it'd be neat to be courted by an elf, male elves are often feminized and made to be submissive, so it'd be a nice change of pace to get an elf who was masculine, dominant and protective towards his male partner. Dwarves would be neat as well, not to mention Qunari, I don't see how not being human makes them any less of a neat candidate for a KISA. Of course, if you are looking for an actual DISNEY PRINCE, being royalty and coming in with his mighty steed to rescue you, it's probably easier inside the Dragon Age world for such a character to be human, especially in Tevinter. But I don't think a gay Disney Prince will be in the roster in a game that takes place in Tevinter to begin with though. Of course you can hope. In the end, ALL of the Bioware gay men have been humans. All, of, them. So I'm rooting for anything else except a gay human. Oh, and before any lurking dev get's a headache: the only thing that's REALLY important is just getting a new gay male character, with a great romance, and plot importance. And if it has to be a human KISA, fine, go for it. (Let's just hope he looks more like Blackwall and less like Cullen) I'd argue we've already had that in Fenris. We've also had a Qunari masculine/dominant guy (Bull). That leaves Dwarves, but I'm almost certain that if BW makes a dwarf LI, they will be a woman (likely Harding).
Either way, BW will have a human and non-human LI for m/m f/f/ f/m and m/f. If someone is looking for that disney prince noble type LI, the only way that's going to happen is if they are human. We had Felix Alexius in DA:I who was of noble blood and Dorian seemed to like him fair enough, so there is room for that some kind of chivalric tevinter LI. If we are to avoid a rehash of Dorian's gay-cure blood magic story, they shouldn't be an only child, preferable third or fourth with no chance of inheriting much. This would also incidentally provide a reason for joining the party of the next protagonist. But, seeing as we've already has gay tevinter nobleman, it might be something else. If we want to avoid nobility, a good choice would be a mage born into the Soporati, which thus elevates them to higher status. The cool thing with this is, if they happen to be Elven, it would provide a direct window into the interplay between race and magical ability in Tevinter and gives us a foil to Solas
As I see it, if we carry with something like what we've had thus far, I think we could see something like:
M/M
-Male Human (or Elf) 'Noble' (a la Alistair or Cullen, not necessarily of obvious noble blood). Perhaps a mage born into a Soporati family, thus bringing them into Laetan status. Mage
-An undercover agent sent by Orlais (likely human, potentially but less likely elf). Rogue
M/F
-Lace Harding, Rogue
-Calpernia or just some random Tevinter woman, Mage
F/M
-Marius. Warrior
-An undercover agent sent by Orlais (likely human, potentially but less likely elf), Rogue
F/F
-Lace Harding. Rogue
-Tessa Forsythia (assuming Charter is out of the picture somehow). Rogue
So that makes 6, and if we're really stretching, add 2 more bi LIs
M/M and F/M -Gladiator, someone like Marius who went all the way. Warrior
M/F and F/F -Tal Vashoth since people want a Female Qunari LI. Warrior, or potentially mage. Someone who actually did learn on her own and wasn't an immortal Elven Demigod.
That makes 3 options for everyone, 2 (or 3) mages, 3 (or 2) warriors, 3 rogues. 4 Bi, 2 straight, 2 gay.
EDIT: Also i want to be able to elevate that M/M mage to Archon, if not myself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 16:02:13 GMT
At the risk of double posting, I did think of another question that I wanted to get people's thoughts on: What if there was a 'traditionlist' Magister LI? One who revels in the mage supremacy and eugenics of the Tevinter nobility. And you could romance him/her, but only if you were a human mage of the opposite gender (since they need to keep their bloodline pure)? Personally, I wouldn't go for it, but it might be an interesting RP option for those who want to play that way. A very interesting idea. I'd probably go for it if that person avoids the human sacrifice, or you can make it so they do without ditching the rest of the ideology as well. I prefer playing human mages anyway, and I don't think mage supremacism is any worse than most of the other systems used to determine who gets to rule on Thedas.
I think it could be a very cool narrative. I don't think I'd ever play the content myself as 'straight human mage' is literally one of the two worst combinations for me (just above 'straight elf mage'). But it just feels like a unique story that should be explored if we are going to be in Tevinter. I would like to see us have the option to support the status quo in Tevinter. Not because I personally agree with it (I suspect that I'll, unsurprisingly, be a Lucerni supporter), but because I really liked having very different outcomes in our choices. DA:O did this best, but as the games progress, we get less and less of that since it becomes harder and harder to maintain.
I also like the idea of the Magister being open to having other combinations (opposite gender perhaps, different races, non-mages, etc.) as "mistresses" since Dorian and Danarius both hinted that this was common practice. But now that we've had a very gated LI (Solas) for 'narrative reasons', it opens the door to having more of them in the future without being concerned about how 'niche' they might be.
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Post by Rouccoco on Dec 27, 2018 16:04:02 GMT
I would be ALL OVER a butch lesbian warrior lady. Give me that Sara Ramirez butch realness and I'll make a little 'chapstick lesbian' dwarf so quickly, your head will spin. LOL. Oh wow, a female butch KISA voiced by Sara Ramirez would be perfect  It's ultimately why I broke my streak and went for a straight romance. I didn't intend it. I thought my lady Cadash was going for Josephine or Sera. But I (the player) couldn't resist an older bearded Daddy.
Speaking of body types -- Seeing my PC Adaar up beside Bull makes me realize how different Bull's body type is than the PC qunari. And me likey! I'm usually not into bi mods, but might try it for Blackwall, that daddy energy is just too strong. But for my canon I think I'll go with Bull. With a human or dwarf IQ, since I like that size difference. |
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Post by jjdxb on Dec 27, 2018 16:12:23 GMT
Oh, and there's a great opportunity here for a dwarf exiled from Kal-Sharok (or the Ambassadoria), likely male as a counterpart to Harding, but not romanceable unless you're a female dwarf. (aka the Solas Romance)
For shits and giggles, lets also say the reason he was exiled is because he got into contact with Valta or Solas, knows what's become of the dwarves so is very happy to work with Solas to return the world to what it once was. Here! Now we can avoid the trope of it being the apostate mage who betrays you.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Dec 27, 2018 16:17:12 GMT
I want a romance character that makes me go "god I hate to love this person" (cue Hate that I love you by Rihanna ft. NeYo  ) someone like Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2 (not a full romance option in that game, but enough content to at least give you that idea) his in-game description:
With his perpetual shadow of facial hair and rugged physique, Bishop is rather handsome even if his demeanor is thoroughly unwelcoming.
Late into his twenties, this veteran of the wilderness has scars and burns across his skin.
Constantly on the look out, sniffing the air and checking what’s behind him, Bishop’s hands are always on his weapons.
Every time you look over to Bishop, he’s looking right back at you. first time I met that character I wanted to strangle him due to the words coming from his mouth (one of the first lines he tells a female pc is "if I wanted a wench, I'd go to the local brothel", I mean...come on dude!) but in time he won me over and became one of my favorite characters of that game (and then...yeah, things happened that I'm still not happy about (I won't spoil for those who haven't played the game or the expansion)
All of the romance options I've gone through in Dragon Age made me instantly like them (even Fenris, despite his whole...hating mages and stuff)
I could really go for a character that has to win me over  plus...someone who isn't as easy on the eyes, rugged handsome like for example...Geralt of Rivia (yes, I find that a rather attractive character)
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Post by Ieldra on Dec 27, 2018 16:18:36 GMT
A very interesting idea. I'd probably go for it if that person avoids the human sacrifice, or you can make it so they do without ditching the rest of the ideology as well. I prefer playing human mages anyway, and I don't think mage supremacism is any worse than most of the other systems used to determine who gets to rule on Thedas.
I think it could be a very cool narrative. I don't think I'd ever play the content myself as 'straight human mage' is literally one of the two worst combinations for me (just above 'straight elf mage'). Do you mind if I ask why? I understand having a gay or non-mage preference, but what's so bad about being human or elf? Oh, and your two worst are my two most preferred  Sex doesn't matter, I can play either. I usually prefer women, but if there's an intriguing romance option I'll switch easily. Much easier to switch sex than orientation. Indeed so, but I'm afraid they'd make it an all-or-nothing choice. There are aspects I'd support because I like their thematic impact, others I'd support for interesting roleplaying, but it would be very hard to to support a system that keeps killing humans for power, even for roleplaying. Oddly enough, I can get into the mindset of someone who has a serious relationship with this mage and doesn't mind this happening. After all, the others are irrelevant...  |
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 27, 2018 16:21:53 GMT
Oh, and there's a great opportunity here for a dwarf exiled from Kal-Sharok (or the Ambassadoria), likely male as a counterpart to Harding, but not romanceable unless you're a female dwarf. (aka the Solas Romance) For shits and giggles, lets also say the reason he was exiled is because he got into contact with Valta or Solas, knows what's become of the dwarves so is very happy to work with Solas to return the world to what it once was. Here! Now we can avoid the trope of it being the apostate mage who betrays you. Sounds like the perfect job for the Purveyor of Teas:  All the Last Court characters are extremely shifty and would make exciting LIs (I’m rooting for the Well-Read Pig Farmer and the Horned Knight), but this surface dwarf is even shiftier than most. Tea with lyrium in it? What could possibly go wrong! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 16:27:18 GMT
I think it could be a very cool narrative. I don't think I'd ever play the content myself as 'straight human mage' is literally one of the two worst combinations for me (just above 'straight elf mage'). I just find humans boring. Humans are just bland vanilla to me. I'm always a human in real life, so if given a choice to be something else for once, I enjoy it for RP purposes.
And elves are more interesting from an RP perspective (especially the Dalish; City Elves in DA are just poor, oppressed humans for the most part). But I just don't enjoy playing as a skinny little short character. If they had body sliders (like in Skyrim), then I'd be much more likely to make a buff Dalish. The male elf body in DA:I is atrocious and too unattractive to me to play as.
That's why all of my Wardens were dwarves and all of my Inquisitors have been either dwarves or qunari.
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Post by Ieldra on Dec 27, 2018 16:50:03 GMT
Do you mind if I ask why? I understand having a gay or non-mage preference, but what's so bad about being human or elf? I just find humans boring. Humans are just bland vanilla to me. I'm always a human in real life, so if given a choice to be something else for once, I enjoy it for RP purposes.
And elves are more interesting from an RP perspective (especially the Dalish; City Elves in DA are just poor, oppressed humans for the most part). But I just don't enjoy playing as a skinny little short character. If they had body sliders (like in Skyrim), then I'd be much more likely to make a buff Dalish. The male elf body in DA:I is atrocious and too unattractive to me to play as.
That's why all of my Wardens were dwarves and all of my Inquisitors have been either dwarves or qunari. I definitely agree with your take on the male elf body in DAI. As for races, I have one dwarf Warden and she's one of my favorites, but Marada Aeducan's backstory is part of her charm, and they never made something similarly appealing in DAI - where I also have a dwarf Inquisitor but she never really took off in my mind. As for qunari...no interest as long as they aren't mages, which....hmmm.....I might actually go and play the female qunari mage I had planned but never got around to when revisiting DAI pre-DA4.
My real preference is mages - my "canon" protagonists were all mages. Warden Eorlin Amell, a young scholarly mage with a detached personality and aspirations to politics, Rowan "Red Rowan" Hawke, angry mage revolutionary, Maelyn Trevelyan, Inquisitor mage who hates with a passion what fate has dealt her in Trespasser and would probably become a far less pleasant woman if she were to appear in DA4. All of those are types who would be drawn to that traditionalist Tevinter mage for different reasons, so really, this is an intriguing proposal. The thought that we could have that in DA4 just never occurred to me, and actually, with Patrick Weekes at the helm I don't think the chances are high. But hey, you can dream.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 27, 2018 17:04:36 GMT
I remember when Allan Schumacher dropped by and listened to concerns about stuff like this (esp "bisexual male characters almost exclusively focus on women" and "the moral upstanding warrior love interest is always straight" - and then had everyone clarify what they meant by that). Then he went and made a poll on twitter trying to suss out whether people preferred the multiple sexualities route vs. the all bi LIs route. So I feel pretty optimistic about how these things'll be handled in the future, even if it's a cautious optimism. 👀😛 Aw! Allan. I really like him and enjoyed his presence on the old boards.
That being said, I believe most of those discussions with Allan happened pre-MEA and look at what a clusterfuck that game's romances were. I do have a ton of faith in Patrick Weekes, though. I'm cautiously optimistic. Versus being cautiously skeptical pre-MEA (which turned out to be the right position).
Nah, those discussions happened just weeks before MEA came out - it's not like he had some input in the choices at that point. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 27, 2018 17:43:42 GMT
Well assuming the comics are setting up for Dragon Age 4,  the (male) KISA role is already filled by Aaron so we're out of luck once again. Curses! Alistair/Cullen/Blackwall'ed again! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 17:56:07 GMT
Well assuming the comics are setting up for Dragon Age 4, the (male) KISA role is already filled by Aaron so we're out of luck once again. Curses! Alistair/Cullen/Blackwall'ed again! I don't think we'll see too many of the comic and book characters in prominent roles. Maybe 1 or 2. But that's it. Otherwise, it requires people to know the books or requires the writers to rehash the comics/books.
Maybe some will show up side quests though. Like Rhys and Evangeline. Or that Dalish First in the Hinterlands who I never realized was from the books until I went down a wiki rabbit hole.
I'm still crossing my fingers that Mae is the big comic/book character. So I think there's still room for a gay KISA in the group. I know that the devs definitely noticed the HUGE gay KISA thread on the old board, so the feedback got to them. Let's see if they do anything with it. <gay Rock Knocker.....gay Rock Knocker.....gay Rock Knocker......>  |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 27, 2018 18:02:45 GMT
I dunno I feel the way they are introducing Aaron, Vaea, and Calix is a little on the nose.
Even Francesca has potential.
But I'll share your optimism.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 18:11:16 GMT
I dunno I feel the way they are introducing Aaron, Vaea, and Calix is a little on the nose. Even Francesca has potential. But I'll share your optimism. If it helps put you at ease, one of the comic authors is participating in that discussion thread and said something to the effect of "We don't write these characters with the games in mind". So that definitely made me feel better about it. They are just doing expanded universe stories and if one of those stories/characters inspires the game writers, then it will get included. Otherwise, they are just expanded lore with winks and nods alluded to them in the main games.
Or at least that's how it seems to me.
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 27, 2018 18:34:07 GMT
A good straight male romance isn't too much to ask for. Cassandra wasn't all that in DAI I'm afraid. DAI had good lesbian, gay and female romances but sorely lacking with males.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 18:35:48 GMT
A good straight male romance isn't too much to ask for. Cassandra wasn't all that in DAI I'm afraid. DAI had good lesbian, gay and female romances but sorely lacking with males. What types would you like to see? |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 27, 2018 18:36:52 GMT
I dunno I feel the way they are introducing Aaron, Vaea, and Calix is a little on the nose. Even Francesca has potential. But I'll share your optimism. If it helps put you at ease, one of the comic authors is participating in that discussion thread and said something to the effect of "We don't write these characters with the games in mind". So that definitely made me feel better about it. They are just doing expanded universe stories and if one of those stories/characters inspires the game writers, then it will get included. Otherwise, they are just expanded lore with winks and nods alluded to them in the main games.
Or at least that's how it seems to me.
I hope that happens at least for Vaea. I would love for her to be a companion and love even more if she was an Ace Spectrum LI. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 27, 2018 18:57:42 GMT
A good straight male romance isn't too much to ask for. Cassandra wasn't all that in DAI I'm afraid. DAI had good lesbian, gay and female romances but sorely lacking with males. Ironically, as a gay man, Cassandra was my favorite DAI romance option. Probably has more to do with the fact that I'm drawn to strong women with a soft side as opposed to seeking attraction haha |
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 27, 2018 19:00:20 GMT
A good straight male romance isn't too much to ask for. Cassandra wasn't all that in DAI I'm afraid. DAI had good lesbian, gay and female romances but sorely lacking with males. Ironically, as a gay man, Cassandra was my favorite DAI romance option. Probably has more to do with the fact that I'm drawn to strong women with a soft side as opposed to seeking attraction haha Even though she is straight, she reminds me of my lesbian friends. She's too much like "one of the guys". |
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 27, 2018 19:02:44 GMT
A good straight male romance isn't too much to ask for. Cassandra wasn't all that in DAI I'm afraid. DAI had good lesbian, gay and female romances but sorely lacking with males. What types would you like to see? Someone who is more feminine not "one of the guys" type of girl. But not someone who is a princess girly girl either. Someone who is between feminine and "one of the guys" type girl. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 27, 2018 19:07:33 GMT
Ironically, as a gay man, Cassandra was my favorite DAI romance option. Probably has more to do with the fact that I'm drawn to strong women with a soft side as opposed to seeking attraction haha Even though she is straight, she reminds me of my lesbian friends. She's too much like "one of the guys". I feel you. Cassandra does remind me of my lesbian best friend haha |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 19:09:00 GMT
What types would you like to see? Someone who is more feminine not "one of the guys" type of girl. But not someone who is a princess girly girl either. Someone who is between feminine and "one of the guys" type girl. I feel like Harding would fit that if she is actually going to be back and a LI. She's feminine but not super girly. And she can handle herself.
I know that we don't know much about them, but I suspect we'll see the Fog Warriors in DA4. And the lore talks about Fog Dancers being the 'storytellers' of their group. For some reason, this resonated with me and I just imagine that we'll meet a Fog Dancer who is a human or elf woman. And I could easily see her fitting this description as well. But that's all speculation.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 27, 2018 19:12:07 GMT
Personality wise Cassandra was pretty much fine for me in DA:I, she was pretty feminine with a very hardened outer layer.
What I do hope for is a female love interest that does not look extremely butch or look far older than she should be.
And is it too sexist to ask for female love interests that might look like Triss and Yennefer from the Witcher series? Someone "pretty"... of course we can go on and on about how beauty is a very subjective matter and all that crap. But I don't think that it is wrong to be saying that Triss and Yennefer from the Witcher series are pretty... even if their beauty is unnatural (in Witcher universe), as far as I understand.
It is the Tevinter Imperium we are going to play in afterall, so why not. (atleast that is the strongest implication, I have missed it if it was actually confirmed.)
Also, I hope we are going to stick to set sexualities for love interests, makes it easier for me to make new characters of either gender to experience the many different romance stories, not to mention it just makes more sense to write a character as such... I also feel like it is much easier for a writer to write a compelling romance story if the writer do not have to be ambiguous with the gender of the player character, I could be wrong here I am no professional writer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 19:17:54 GMT
Personality wise Cassandra was pretty much fine for me in DA:I, she was pretty feminine with a very hardened outer layer. What I do hope for is a female love interest that does not look extremely butch or look far older than she should be. And is it too sexist to ask for female love interests that might look like Triss and Yennefer from the Witcher series? Someone "pretty"... of course we can go on and on about how beauty is a very subjective matter and all that crap. But I don't think that it is wrong to be saying that Triss and Yennefer from the Witcher series are pretty... even if their beauty is unnatural (in Witcher universe), as far as I understand. It is the Tevinter Imperium we are going to play in afterall, so why not. (atleast that is the strongest implication, I have missed it if it was actually confirmed.) Also, I hope we are going to stick to set sexualities for love interests, makes it easier for me to make new characters of either gender to experience the many different romance stories. I don't think Cassandra looked "older than she should be" since the character was in her late 30's in DA:I and looked it. She's the only female LI in the series that's not "young", so I don't see an issue with including an older lady.
I can easily see there being more 'conventionally feminine and beautiful' female characters in DA4. For one, the DA series doesn't shy away from that. Look at Morrigan, Leliana, and Isabela. It's really only the last game where the two options weren't sexy young women. And I would even argue that with different styling, Josephine would be pretty attractive as well. But her hair and clothes weren't terribly attractive in my opinion.
Remember that Tevinter mage families take a "eugenics" approach to matchmaking -- creating the "perfect" mage and that includes looks.
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Post by cankiie on Dec 27, 2018 19:21:49 GMT
Personality wise Cassandra was pretty much fine for me in DA:I, she was pretty feminine with a very hardened outer layer. What I do hope for is a female love interest that does not look extremely butch or look far older than she should be. And is it too sexist to ask for female love interests that might look like Triss and Yennefer from the Witcher series? Someone "pretty"... of course we can go on and on about how beauty is a very subjective matter and all that crap. But I don't think that it is wrong to be saying that Triss and Yennefer from the Witcher series are pretty... even if their beauty is unnatural (in Witcher universe), as far as I understand. It is the Tevinter Imperium we are going to play in afterall, so why not. (atleast that is the strongest implication, I have missed it if it was actually confirmed.) Also, I hope we are going to stick to set sexualities for love interests, makes it easier for me to make new characters of either gender to experience the many different romance stories. I don't think Cassandra looked "older than she should be" since the character was in her late 30's in DA:I and looked it. She's the only female LI in the series that's not "young", so I don't see an issue with including an older lady.
I can easily see there being more 'conventionally feminine and beautiful' female characters in DA4. For one, the DA series doesn't shy away from that. Look at Morrigan, Leliana, and Isabela. It's really only the last game where the two options weren't sexy young women. And I would even argue that with different styling, Josephine would be pretty attractive as well. But her hair and clothes weren't terribly attractive in my opinion.
Remember that Tevinter mage families take a "eugenics" approach to matchmaking -- creating the "perfect" mage and that includes looks.
The "looking older than what seems implied" statement was coined at Josephine, but you seem to have caught that. And yes, that is exactly why I mentioned the Tevinter Imperium in my post, it'd make sense if we got some kind of over the top, unnaturally so beautiful female as a companion and potentially love interest if the Tevinter Imperium is indeed going to be our playground. That is not to say that the people who are extremely beautiful by typical standards are not normal, of course. |
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Sex doesn't matter, I can play either. I usually prefer women, but if there's an intriguing romance option I'll switch easily. Much easier to switch sex than orientation. 
the (male) KISA role is already filled by Aaron so we're out of luck once again. 
