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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 11, 2019 7:33:43 GMT
It's far too costly to design a whole narrative specific to every race. At best, you'll get a unique origin story for your race that serves as an introduction to the game, and perhaps some flavoring sprinkled throughout the game. But more than likely you'll just get the latter, if that. The most one could really hope for is the Origins route where you get a little playtime into the specific personal story, but it gets funneled into the same conflict as your other options with flavored dialogue. I can see this being a risky cost because of the possibility of an overwhelming majority opting to stick with human.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 11, 2019 12:25:23 GMT
It's far too costly to design a whole narrative specific to every race. At best, you'll get a unique origin story for your race that serves as an introduction to the game, and perhaps some flavoring sprinkled throughout the game. But more than likely you'll just get the latter, if that. The most one could really hope for is the Origins route where you get a little playtime into the specific personal story, but it gets funneled into the same conflict as your other options with flavored dialogue. I can see this being a risky cost because of the possibility of an overwhelming majority opting to stick with human. And unless BioWare/the fans are willing to go back to a silent protagonist then I don't see it realistically happening. The only reason Origins could get away with the level of variance it had in each warden's background prologue was because it didn't have to devote ~50% of it's word budget to our hero character.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 11, 2019 12:29:32 GMT
The most one could really hope for is the Origins route where you get a little playtime into the specific personal story, but it gets funneled into the same conflict as your other options with flavored dialogue. I can see this being a risky cost because of the possibility of an overwhelming majority opting to stick with human. And unless BioWare/the fans are willing to go back to a silent protagonist then I don't see it realistically happening. The only reason Origins could get away with the level of variance it had in each warden's background prologue was because it didn't have to devote ~50% of it's word budget to our hero character. I think it's safe to say the ship has sailed on that one. Going with a silent protagonist would probably be the riskiest part of the whole thing, since no one else is going to have its PC and NPC's divided between voice and unvoiced. They'd be better off just sticking with one species.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 14, 2019 22:51:53 GMT
I don't have any particular interest in playing any other ME species, and I find it highly unlikely that they could do it effectively in a way that wouldn't be hugely costly.
DA races all have human-looking faces, and can use the same facial animations in cutscenes. That isn't true of ME species aside from asari. The asari could also share a voice track with a human female (though I'd prefer they had some race-specific lines), but every other race would need its own VAs.
I'd rather have dozens of human CC and armor options than have to split them among all those different face and body models, where each species would have only a handful.
I don't want to be the turd in anyone else's punchbowl, but I don't see any way they could realistically do it without cutting an awful lot of other content.
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 15, 2019 3:12:24 GMT
I probably wouldn't use it, but I don't object to the option being there.
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Post by brfritos on Feb 17, 2019 1:37:57 GMT
I don't think it's workable as SP DLC unless playing as a nonhuman is completely irrelevant to dialogue and plot. Too much QA, too many dependencies. Devs have said that they won't make stuff that way. OTOH, making the PC's race irrelevant is the cheap way to go, so it's not inconceivable. To be honest, I never saw Mass Effect as a human story to begin with. Make Shepard or Ryder almost any alien species and little about the games' plots would change. You'd still have a super soldier unite the galaxy against the Reapers, and the Pathfinder would still colonize Andromeda. So being human already seems irrelevant.
By the third game this no longer applies (and MEA is even worse in this department).
Who is the best hope for the galaxy? Humans of course, because our world is pretty much destroyed while the asari and salarian worlds were still intact. Who has the best chance to fight the Reapers? Humans of course, because we have the best fighting force, excluding of course the turians and asari having more dreadnoughts than us and pretty much every other weapon, carrier, fighter and so on everyone has is on par with what we have.
By the third game they even changed how the races look and put a human torso on a female turian!
And of course, every single alien talk and maneirism are from human references.
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 17, 2019 11:47:56 GMT
I'd play Elcor just for the insane dialogue. And complete ineffictiveness in battle. That'd be something else.
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Post by Phantom on Feb 17, 2019 22:32:56 GMT
And unless BioWare/the fans are willing to go back to a silent protagonist then I don't see it realistically happening. The only reason Origins could get away with the level of variance it had in each warden's background prologue was because it didn't have to devote ~50% of it's word budget to our hero character. I think it's safe to say the ship has sailed on that one. Going with a silent protagonist would probably be the riskiest part of the whole thing, since no one else is going to have its PC and NPC's divided between voice and unvoiced. They'd be better off just sticking with one species. Well I don't think Silent Protagonist fits Mass Effect at all. This is coming from a guy that loves Silent Protagonists aka Kotor 1 and 2, Jade Empire, DAO and other Silent Protagonist games. I only see that if bioware has a Non-Human Player Character, it needs a game that is devoted to that species and how to roleplay as them. It is easy to roleplay as a Human within Mass Effect. I would love to see a Drell Assassin or a Turian Havoc Soldier
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 18, 2019 1:42:17 GMT
I'd play Elcor just for the insane dialogue. And complete ineffictiveness in battle. That'd be something else.
Candidly, I do not think I came prepared for this.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 18, 2019 1:54:58 GMT
To be honest, I never saw Mass Effect as a human story to begin with. Make Shepard or Ryder almost any alien species and little about the games' plots would change. You'd still have a super soldier unite the galaxy against the Reapers, and the Pathfinder would still colonize Andromeda. So being human already seems irrelevant.
By the third game this no longer applies (and MEA is even worse in this department).
Who is the best hope for the galaxy? Humans of course, because our world is pretty much destroyed while the asari and salarian worlds were still intact. Who has the best chance to fight the Reapers? Humans of course, because we have the best fighting force, excluding of course the turians and asari having more dreadnoughts than us and pretty much every other weapon, carrier, fighter and so on everyone has is on par with what we have.
By the third game they even changed how the races look and put a human torso on a female turian!
And of course, every single alien talk and maneirism are from human references.
The only change in 3 was the Turian female character model differing from the codex entry description, since none existed on screen at that point. Everything else looked about the same. Heck, the only really meaningful change is custom Shepard, because s/he doesn't look quite like the CC setup from the previous games.
The human mannerism thing has been a part of Mass Effect since the beginning. Any alien with 2 arms and legs basically had human qualities about the way they spoke and emoted. The only aliens that acted differently were the hanar and elcor.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 18, 2019 13:49:42 GMT
I'd play Elcor just for the insane dialogue. And complete ineffictiveness in battle. That'd be something else.
Candidly, I do not think I came prepared for this. I don't know about that. Elcor: evolved on a planet with five times the gravity of every other known species in the milky way. Their skeletal structure and muscles are all attuned to withstanding the pressures involved on Dekuna. Place them in a normal 1G environment and they are practically the hulk among puny mortals.
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Post by griffith82 on Feb 18, 2019 21:11:12 GMT
By the third game this no longer applies (and MEA is even worse in this department).
Who is the best hope for the galaxy? Humans of course, because our world is pretty much destroyed while the asari and salarian worlds were still intact. Who has the best chance to fight the Reapers? Humans of course, because we have the best fighting force, excluding of course the turians and asari having more dreadnoughts than us and pretty much every other weapon, carrier, fighter and so on everyone has is on par with what we have.
By the third game they even changed how the races look and put a human torso on a female turian!
And of course, every single alien talk and maneirism are from human references.
The only change in 3 was the Turian female character model differing from the codex entry description, since none existed on screen at that point. Everything else looked about the same. Heck, the only really meaningful change is custom Shepard, because s/he doesn't look quite like the CC setup from the previous games.
The human mannerism thing has been a part of Mass Effect since the beginning. Any alien with 2 arms and legs basically had human qualities about the way they spoke and emoted. The only aliens that acted differently were the hanar and elcor.
Or femshep either for that matter. But yeah the female Turians is like the original Batarian entry. I like the female Turians and the look of Batarians now versus the original art.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 8, 2019 0:33:55 GMT
Yes but I would like them to stick with a "human like species". Only because as we saw in DAI it limits the clothes and gear since they have to make different versions of it. Plus if I am correct then it means they have to limit some of the game because it has more then one character model to incorporate in the game instead of one base one which could fit human,asari,and drell as well as other species that have similar body types but just need different skins
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 8, 2019 13:45:51 GMT
Personally, I would much rather the single player stay focused on a single species as our protagonist; and of course, knowing Bioware, given only one option they will go with humans. It's kind of antithetical to what I normally ask for in my games (aliens, non-human elements) but after seeing how bland and unremarkable the other racial choices were in DA:I, I would much rather BioWare didn't bother and instead flush out our main character to make them more unique. My Dwarf Inquisitor was just a short human with a beard for all the difference it made to my play through; in fact, my human advisors knew more about dwarven culture and customs than I did. Playing as a Qunari wasn't much better, indeed the only major nods to my racial selection in the game for both characters boiled down to only a handful of responses; the vast majority of which were some variant of: "Hey, you're a [Dwarf/Qunari]."
Now what I would like to se when it comes to playing as multiple races is in the multiplayer side of things. We can already play as the other species in that game mode now but I want to see an expansion on that. Much like how differently a Colossus plays from an Interceptor in Anthem, I want to feel totally different when playing as a Krogan compared to a Salarian or Drell. No more simple texture swaps and reused powers, I want to see truly unique kits, like a Rachni Brood Warriors, Elcor Sentinels, and Hanar Infiltrators. Go back to more of what ME3MP was, but far more expanded upon rather than the disappointment Andromeda's copy/paste rush job multiplayer was.
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Post by feuerrabe on Mar 8, 2019 20:33:09 GMT
Not unless BioWare changes how they approach races. In Dragon Age it doesn't feel any different playing any of the races its mostly you are playing the same character in a rubber suit. Given how much time they would have to take to make sure all the animations for dialogue and combat it would take, I would much rather have the time of the animators used on other features of the game. Hm. While Star Wars: The Old Republic has similar issues with races, they do not with classes. A combination of class, background and species could lead to different options. I am not suggesting an own class story beyond an introduction, but if the dialogues with NPCs would sound different. Also, similar to the Dragon Age games, NPCs would react with different conversations amongst each other.
But anyway, even if it wasn't reflected only on the same degree as in the Dragon Age series, I'd be fine with it. An actually useful racial ability would go a long way.
My ideal scenario:
If there were four character templates to pick from, e.g. Human Male, Human Female, Drell Male, Asari. If you play the game through you may unlock a Krogan and a Volous (both male... unless it turns out that there is a significant interest in the player base to have either female instead). The Volous would actually be harder to play than any other, but if you make it in the highest difficulty, that achievement will have an impat on the next game, not so much to upset players who are in it for the story and prefer to have an easy pacing, just a nice gimmik. The Krogan in turn is in fact a little easier in combat, but sometimes has less dialogue options.
Obviously such a scenario would create a lot of design overhead and whether it would be a feature that sells accordingly I leave up to EA and Bioware to decide. I'm just saying I'd like it.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Mar 14, 2019 21:54:57 GMT
Agree to disagree, I guess. My version of Origins did a really good job differentiating elf and dwarf characters throughout the adventure, so I am unsure why there are so many complaints about how it was handled. Would the detractors only be satisfied if say, the Dalish Elf protagonist never had to leave the forest, and only had adventures about ancient ruins, forest spirits, and conflicts with the local human village? Or if the dwarven protagonist spent an entire game only dealing with the politics or cultural oppression in Orzammar, without leaving to fight some Blight? Where is the bar being set for good application of race selection? I feel like minor nods and references strewn throughout our tale is good representation.
I am also curious why people are still pointing to Inquisition to support their argument against race selection. We all know that feature was added late in development. The only Dragon Age game that can reasonably be referenced is Origins, and I feel that game was very successful in providing a varied racial experience.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Mar 14, 2019 22:04:54 GMT
I only see that if bioware has a Non-Human Player Character, it needs a game that is devoted to that species and how to roleplay as them. It is easy to roleplay as a Human within Mass Effect. I suppose this is the only solution that all sides of the argument could agree on: not having race selection, but making the protagonist NOT HUMAN. This way, all the people worried about a "diluted" experience will get their richly detailed background, and everyone else that likes to roleplay as different races aren't forced to be yet another human protagonist. Mass Effect "5:" come play as a male or female Batarian who must defy traditional roles to move his/her people into the future...and possibly save the galaxy! Count me in!
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Post by Phantom on Mar 14, 2019 22:10:17 GMT
I only see that if bioware has a Non-Human Player Character, it needs a game that is devoted to that species and how to roleplay as them. It is easy to roleplay as a Human within Mass Effect. I suppose this is the only solution that all sides of the argument could agree on: not having race selection, but making the protagonist NOT HUMAN. This way, all the people worried about a "diluted" experience will get their richly detailed background, and everyone else that likes to roleplay as different races aren't forced to be yet another human protagonist. Mass Effect "5:" come play as a male or female Batarian who must defy traditional roles to move his/her people into the future...and possibly save the galaxy! Count me in! lets face it that is a good possible idea.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 14, 2019 22:39:51 GMT
That would just lead to different arguments, between people who don’t want to play as an alien and prefer human or those who do but “Why that race? I wanted to play as this race.”
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Post by Phantom on Mar 14, 2019 22:49:49 GMT
That would just lead to different arguments, between people who don’t want to play as an alien and prefer human or those who do but “Why that race? I wanted to play as this race.” well you can get the same arguments about factions as well. Including why not Alliance, Pathfinder, Cerberus, C-Sec, or other factions. Keep in mind that even if Bioware made a good Mass effect game with either galaxy, there will be people will make complains about it.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Mar 14, 2019 23:05:54 GMT
That would just lead to different arguments, between people who don’t want to play as an alien and prefer human or those who do but “Why that race? I wanted to play as this race.” That is true. Which is why I couldn't present as the most serious contender for an actual outcome. I am actually a strong supporter for having plural race choice for character creation. The sort of concept that I presented is generally the type of thing that pops into my head whenever someone tells me that having ONLY humans is the best way to make a game, or the best use of resources.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 15, 2019 1:00:27 GMT
Mass Effect "5:" come play as a male or female Batarian who must defy traditional roles to move his/her people into the future...and possibly save the galaxy! As long as I can play as one of the batarians who invaded Mindoir and murdered Shepard's family and friends. Then you have to overcome that background to become Hero of the Galaxy.
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Post by mattfon on Mar 18, 2019 13:06:16 GMT
NO, Stick with one the humans, I would prefer to expand on the lore
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 18, 2019 13:38:16 GMT
Agree to disagree, I guess. My version of Origins did a really good job differentiating elf and dwarf characters throughout the adventure, so I am unsure why there are so many complaints about how it was handled. Would the detractors only be satisfied if say, the Dalish Elf protagonist never had to leave the forest, and only had adventures about ancient ruins, forest spirits, and conflicts with the local human village? Or if the dwarven protagonist spent an entire game only dealing with the politics or cultural oppression in Orzammar, without leaving to fight some Blight? Where is the bar being set for good application of race selection? I feel like minor nods and references strewn throughout our tale is good representation. I am also curious why people are still pointing to Inquisition to support their argument against race selection. We all know that feature was added late in development. The only Dragon Age game that can reasonably be referenced is Origins, and I feel that game was very successful in providing a varied racial experience. Then we played two very different Dragon Age: Origins game, for everything was frontloaded to the point of Ostagar and then very little seemed to be done for the rest of the game. Things like merchants calling Elves Knife Ears or refusing to do business with them because they are slaves. Civilians not being fearful of a Mage while there are stories of attacking children that can use magic. The reason why Inquisition is brought up is because frankly it would be the same now even if it was planned from the beginning because there is more to development now then there was with Origins and the animations and dialogue that would need to be done means it would be limited. Just like the Iron Bull romance was done by a person on their own spare time and after has the comment "never again". I cannot find the quote anymore, but I remember during Inquisitions development even BioWare admitted that the content based on the race of the player in Origins was frontloaded and that was why they were not going to have the race selection for Inquisition, but typical BioWare caved to the "fans" and shoehorned it into the game.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2019 14:58:43 GMT
Candidly, I do not think I came prepared for this. I don't know about that. Elcor: evolved on a planet with five times the gravity of every other known species in the milky way. Their skeletal structure and muscles are all attuned to withstanding the pressures involved on Dekuna. Place them in a normal 1G environment and they are practically the hulk among puny mortals. Except the Hulk is bulletproof while elcor are not.
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