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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 2, 2020 5:53:40 GMT
I’m not saying Merrill killed the halla deliberately. I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering.
I’m just saying, maybe there are hidden costs for practicing blood magic that you don’t realize until it’s too late.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 6:09:28 GMT
I’m not saying Merrill killed the halla deliberately. I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering. I’m just saying, maybe there are hidden costs for practicing blood magic that you don’t realize until it’s too late. Maybe Varric killed all their halla for kicks and giggles. That explanation has just as much supporting it as yours. Also by the time Merrill leaves, Audacity already began affecting Marethari hence why Merrill asks her why the clan was still there. And the reason they went there at all: Marethari owed Flemeth a debt so had to wait there that long, no matter what kind of magic Merrill used.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2020 6:15:59 GMT
I’m not saying Merrill killed the halla deliberately. I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering. I’m just saying, maybe there are hidden costs for practicing blood magic that you don’t realize until it’s too late. this type of thing wouldn't be too far beyond the realm for Dragon Age either. This 'what goes around comes around' kind of compelling magic...ie the geas from Mythal. Also, I would contend that there is a certain 'corrupting influence' in the use of blood magic that encourages further use.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 2, 2020 6:16:13 GMT
I’m not saying Merrill killed the halla deliberately. I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering. I’m just saying, maybe there are hidden costs for practicing blood magic that you don’t realize until it’s too late. The halla dying mysteriously could have easily been coincidence. Or the grass around Sundermount/Kirkwall being poison. It could also have been Flemythal, since she needed them to stick around Sundermount and she somehow knows they are there from back in Fereldan. It could also have been Audacity, I suppose, to make it so Merrill would be sticking around.
Your argument makes sense from a thematic, "this is a story", pov. Blood magic bad, ends in tragedy, etc. But from a "this is a real world" pov, you'd have to believe in either sentient magic, karma, or chaos theory to think that the specific act of Merrill cutting her own wrist to splash some blood on a mirror shard results in the death of the family deer herd. Cus, as far as we know, there is no visible thread connecting the two incidents.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 6:23:20 GMT
I’m not saying Merrill killed the halla deliberately. I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering. I’m just saying, maybe there are hidden costs for practicing blood magic that you don’t realize until it’s too late. this type of thing wouldn't be too far beyond the realm for Dragon Age either. This 'what goes around comes around' kind of compelling magic...ie the geas from Mythal. Also, I would contend that there is a certain 'corrupting influence' in the use of blood magic that encourages further use. Who are you, “””Hawke””” from DAI?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2020 6:35:51 GMT
this type of thing wouldn't be too far beyond the realm for Dragon Age either. This 'what goes around comes around' kind of compelling magic...ie the geas from Mythal. Also, I would contend that there is a certain 'corrupting influence' in the use of blood magic that encourages further use. Who are you, “””Hawke””” from DAI? Its funny you should bring up Hawke here. 1. I am sympathetic to that viewpoint. I have seen enough evidence from within the DAS to suggest that Blood Magic is a hell of a drug. Sure there are *good* uses of blood magic and you don't *have to* be evil to use blood magic, but there...again seems to be...a direct connection between the usage of blood magic and things like demon summoning and human sacrifice. Of course this could be *cultural* too and nothing inherent in the usage of blood magic...but as of now I generally frown on the practice. And this is despite liking Merill as a character, warts and all. 2. That line is very well in line with what my Hawke personally believes. And this is despite being friendly with both Meril and Anders. Granted she came down on Merill HARD over the whole Eluvian thing but at least for my Hawke's part I don't think she dislikes Merill.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 6:46:14 GMT
Who are you, “””Hawke””” from DAI? Its funny you should bring up Hawke here. 1. I am sympathetic to that viewpoint. I have seen enough evidence from within the DAS to suggest that Blood Magic is a hell of a drug. Sure there are *good* uses of blood magic and you don't *have to* be evil to use blood magic, but there...again seems to be...a direct connection between the usage of blood magic and things like demon summoning and human sacrifice. Of course this could be *cultural* too and nothing inherent in the usage of blood magic...but as of now I generally frown on the practice. And this is despite liking Merill as a character, warts and all. 2. That line is very well in line with what my Hawke personally believes. And this is despite being friendly with both Meril and Anders. Granted she came down on Merill HARD over the whole Eluvian thing but at least for my Hawke's part I don't think she dislikes Merill. I did that as a joke, but now you have me hating “””Hawke“”” again due to how out of character they were with that opinion compared to mine. Really makes the relationship seem like a toxic one since they consider every blood mage to be a monster.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2020 6:50:44 GMT
Its funny you should bring up Hawke here. 1. I am sympathetic to that viewpoint. I have seen enough evidence from within the DAS to suggest that Blood Magic is a hell of a drug. Sure there are *good* uses of blood magic and you don't *have to* be evil to use blood magic, but there...again seems to be...a direct connection between the usage of blood magic and things like demon summoning and human sacrifice. Of course this could be *cultural* too and nothing inherent in the usage of blood magic...but as of now I generally frown on the practice. And this is despite liking Merill as a character, warts and all. 2. That line is very well in line with what my Hawke personally believes. And this is despite being friendly with both Meril and Anders. Granted she came down on Merill HARD over the whole Eluvian thing but at least for my Hawke's part I don't think she dislikes Merill. I did that as a joke, but now you have me hating “””Hawke“”” again due to how out of character they were with that opinion compared to mine. Really makes the relationship seem like a toxic one since they consider every blood mage to be a monster. I didn't get that from that conversation...that they considered all blood mages to be monsters.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 6:55:34 GMT
I did that as a joke, but now you have me hating “””Hawke“”” again due to how out of character they were with that opinion compared to mine. Really makes the relationship seem like a toxic one since they consider every blood mage to be a monster. I didn't get that from that conversation...that they considered all blood mages to be monsters. A couple of the dialogue lines explicitly have them say things to that effect. If you didn’t get them, lucky you.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2020 7:07:07 GMT
I didn't get that from that conversation...that they considered all blood mages to be monsters. A couple of the dialogue lines explicitly have them say things to that effect. If you didn’t get them, lucky you. no I heard the same lines you did... I just disagree with your conclusions. Edit: love the sinner hate the sin.
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1,925
Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 2, 2020 7:27:51 GMT
Hawke may have been more open-minded regarding blood magic in DA2, but that game ends three years before DAI. They’ve had time to reflect, and given all of their experiences with blood magic were entirely negative, they obviously soured on its use.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 7:28:50 GMT
A couple of the dialogue lines explicitly have them say things to that effect. If you didn’t get them, lucky you. no I heard the same lines you did... I just disagree with your conclusions. Edit: love the sinner hate the sin. ”All blood mages do. Everyone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisions...and it never matters.”, Hawke says with pure anger and hatred in their voice and face. Yep, no accusing all blood mages (notice the target of their anger isn’t blood magic but anyone who performs it) of being the same at all. And that’s just one of the lines.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 7:29:42 GMT
Hawke may have been more open-minded regarding blood magic in DA2, but that game ends three years before DAI. They’ve had time to reflect, and given all of their experiences with blood magic were entirely negative, they obviously soured on its use. My Hawke’s significant other was a blood mage, and some of them were blood mages themselves, so no you’re objectively wrong.
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Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 2, 2020 7:34:50 GMT
Hawke doesn’t need to love blood magic to love Merrill, Hanako. Likewise, nobody has to keep using blood magic once they start - Malcolm Hawke was a blood mage, but he hated being one and gave it up.
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August 2016
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 2, 2020 7:34:59 GMT
I’m not saying Merrill killed the halla deliberately. I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering. I’m just saying, maybe there are hidden costs for practicing blood magic that you don’t realize until it’s too late.
T The explanation of "shyte happens" is as good as any.
Yes, you can posit the Law of Unintended consequences as a reason for the Halla's death if blood magic is used. But, blood magic use is centuries old. There would be a body of evidence, by now, if the "hidden costs" were true.
(❁´◡`❁)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 7:37:58 GMT
Hawke doesn’t need to love blood magic to love Merrill, Hanako. Her dad used blood magic, but he hated doing so and gave it up. My Hawke has no such issues with blood magic. But now they act like an asshole who hates anyone who ever used it. Again, not the magic but the mages. They completely ruined the character (not just in that aspect but one rant at a time) and it’s why to bring up a previous discussion I’m adamantly against the Inquisitor being a NPC in DA4 since I don’t them destroyed like they destroyed other past protagonists.
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26,664
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10,783
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 2, 2020 7:39:57 GMT
Okay I've created a new thread to discuss blood magic as I don't want to fill up this one with the debate but I would like to continue it.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 2, 2020 7:42:57 GMT
Its funny you should bring up Hawke here. 1. I am sympathetic to that viewpoint. I have seen enough evidence from within the DAS to suggest that Blood Magic is a hell of a drug. Sure there are *good* uses of blood magic and you don't *have to* be evil to use blood magic, but there...again seems to be...a direct connection between the usage of blood magic and things like demon summoning and human sacrifice. Of course this could be *cultural* too and nothing inherent in the usage of blood magic...but as of now I generally frown on the practice. And this is despite liking Merill as a character, warts and all. 2. That line is very well in line with what my Hawke personally believes. And this is despite being friendly with both Meril and Anders. Granted she came down on Merill HARD over the whole Eluvian thing but at least for my Hawke's part I don't think she dislikes Merill. I did that as a joke, but now you have me hating “””Hawke“”” again due to how out of character they were with that opinion compared to mine. Really makes the relationship seem like a toxic one since they consider every blood mage to be a monster.
My Hawke never used blood magic, 'cause she was prudent, tough and wise. Besides, cutting her palm to let the blood flow would scar her pretty palm.
(✿◡‿◡)
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Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jul 2, 2020 8:16:55 GMT
this type of thing wouldn't be too far beyond the realm for Dragon Age either. This 'what goes around comes around' kind of compelling magic...ie the geas from Mythal. Also, I would contend that there is a certain 'corrupting influence' in the use of blood magic that encourages further use. Who are you, “””Hawke””” from DAI? I think you onto something. DAI Hawke might be just an imposter (Envy demon?) afterall. I did that as a joke, but now you have me hating “””Hawke“”” again due to how out of character they were with that opinion compared to mine. Really makes the relationship seem like a toxic one since they consider every blood mage to be a monster.
My Hawke never used blood magic, 'cause she was prudent, tough and wise.
My Hawke also never sided with Meredith beyond achievement hunting.
(Not) doing something "because the Chantry says so" is not automatically prudent or wise.
Now, that's a better argument.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 2, 2020 8:18:46 GMT
Who are you, “””Hawke””” from DAI? I think you onto something. DAI Hawke might be just an imposter (Envy demon?) afterall.
My Hawke never used blood magic, 'cause she was prudent, tough and wise.
My Hawke also never sided with Meredith beyond achievement hunting.
(Not) doing something "because the Chantry says so" is not automatically prudent or wise.
Now, that's a better argument. I’ve made that joke before. The Hawke in DAI is just an Envy Demon that did such a sad job, everyone else is taking pity on it and pretending they nailed imitating Hawke.
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26,664
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August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 2, 2020 18:06:30 GMT
I’m just noting that if the halla had not died mysteriously, then perhaps Merrill’s clan would have left Sundermount a lot sooner and avoided a great deal of suffering Marethari owed Flemeth a debt so had to wait there that long, no matter what kind of magic Merrill used. I may have misremembered this but I thought the halla didn't cope well with the sea journey and so sickened and died soon after. The clan stayed at the foot of Sundermount initially because Flemeth had called in an old favour with Marethari and so she was obliged to stay there until it was met. Then the demon got inside her head and she felt compelled to stay in order to stop it from possessing Merrill, initially just sending her away with Hawke but still hanging around as Kirkwall wasn't that far away. Marethari had a duty to the clan and should have left as soon as the amulet had been dealt with and Merrill departed. It had nothing to do with not having halla because they could have found another way of shifting their aravels and considering the dangers of the mountain and the near proximity of the Templars, if necessary they should have abandoned the aravels and left on foot, or at least moved to another better location near at hand. Alternatively, sent a small party of their hunters to locate the nearest Dalish clan and ask for their help; clan Lavellan couldn't have been that far away.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
Posts: 29,477 Likes: 104,097
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104,097
Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
29,477
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Hrungr
18,258
65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 6, 2020 18:00:31 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes "This presentation is about ideas and themes. It shouldn't need a lot of pictures to sell it, just simple bullet points."
(adds a flashy concept art picture)
"...Dangit, that *is* better."
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biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by biggydx on Jul 6, 2020 20:26:11 GMT
This is completely off-topic, but I'd still be interested to know about how this works. When a studio wants to hire new employees, do they also need to run that by their Publisher (EA) as well? I would assume with the wage, staffing, and accommodation logistics that are involved with hiring someone, that would likely require someone relaying that information to the head honcho (not necessarily the execs). IIRC, EA helped in providing BioWare their new studio, so providing office space for new employees would likely need to be on their end.
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LukeBarrett
N3
BioWare Dev
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
Posts: 254 Likes: 3,450
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jul 6, 2020 20:29:44 GMT
This is completely off-topic, but I'd still be interested to know about how this works. When a studio wants to hire new employees, do they also need to run that by their Publisher (EA) as well? I would assume with the wage, staffing, and accommodation logistics that are involved with hiring someone, that would likely require someone relaying that information to the head honcho (not necessarily the execs). IIRC, EA helped in providing BioWare their new studio, so providing office space for new employees would likely need to be on their end. The answer like always is that it's complicated but at a very quick 'close enough' answer, typically the studio is given a budget for headcount and they're allowed to hire whoever they want.
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biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by biggydx on Jul 6, 2020 23:22:37 GMT
This is completely off-topic, but I'd still be interested to know about how this works. When a studio wants to hire new employees, do they also need to run that by their Publisher (EA) as well? I would assume with the wage, staffing, and accommodation logistics that are involved with hiring someone, that would likely require someone relaying that information to the head honcho (not necessarily the execs). IIRC, EA helped in providing BioWare their new studio, so providing office space for new employees would likely need to be on their end. The answer like always is that it's complicated but at a very quick 'close enough' answer, typically the studio is given a budget for headcount and they're allowed to hire whoever they want. Thank you
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