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gaycaravaggio
Oy Gay
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February 2017
gaycaravaggio
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Jul 29, 2021 6:54:55 GMT
I find it interesting that we're always told to "see both sides" whenever someone is abused or harassed. As if the "other side" having problems too or the "other side" interpreting it differently suddenly makes this behavior okay. People are always willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the abuser/harasser if they like them. That's something that will never change, unfortunately.
Bioware, much like the rest of the industry (and many other industries), has a lot to work on in this area. I know I've definitely heard some inappropriate behavior involving people at various studios over the years, and we've seen some examples that became public, as well. Plugging your ears and going "nah nah nah I can't hear you" never helps anyone improve. It just makes things stagnate.
I would hope none of us want our favorite video game studios to stagnate in this respect.
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lk13
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 195 Likes: 526
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lk13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by lk13 on Jul 29, 2021 7:12:13 GMT
Taking things with a grain of salt is fine, if you know something about her that would warrant as such. It doesn’t change the fact that there are people that worked on BioWare at the time, and seemingly on the same project with her, that replied to her tweets and agreed with what she said. That, and Bioware’s not stellar reputation as a work envinronment in the last decade at least, should also be put on the plate when considering if she’s telling the truth or not, not just other informations you might have about her. Considering the work environment inside the vast majority of AAA studios (which BW is), I wouldn't be too surprised if something bad (even worse than crunch I mean) happened in there too, though I would be very disappointed. Maybe not cube crawls and such, I don't think BW really has traces of frat boy culture anymore (though I could be wrong of course) but still, mismanagement affects both games and the people making those games. You could say that BW promised to improve work conditions in their 25th anniversary book, but to be honest, so did CDPR before they mandated a company-wide crunch session months before the release of Cyberpunk 2077. Same with most all other major studios (and probably even some indie ones). What I hope is that something, anything can come out of this ActiBlizzard lawsuit and from the Blizzard developers' walkout.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 29, 2021 7:37:49 GMT
I find it interesting that we're always told to "see both sides" whenever someone is abused or harassed. As if the "other side" having problems too or the "other side" interpreting it differently suddenly makes this behavior okay. People are always willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the abuser/harasser if they like them. That's something that will never change, unfortunately. Bioware, much like the rest of the industry (and many other industries), has a lot to work on in this area. I know I've definitely heard some inappropriate behavior involving people at various studios over the years, and we've seen some examples that became public, as well. Plugging your ears and going "nah nah nah I can't hear you" never helps anyone improve. It just makes things stagnate. I would hope none of us want our favorite video game studios to stagnate in this respect. If this is about my posts (as I don’t recall others using those words), I should’ve been clearer on what I meant. It wasn’t about the two sides, abused vs abusers, but about not weighing only a person’s supposedly bad reputation (some are saying Maggs have lied before, so they might be more prone to not believe her words), but also the facts in support of their words, like in this case, the other devs’ posts and Bioware’s own bad reputation on work environment.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 29, 2021 9:59:07 GMT
I find it interesting that we're always told to "see both sides" whenever someone is abused or harassed. As if the "other side" having problems too or the "other side" interpreting it differently suddenly makes this behavior okay No. It's because sometimes these accusations aren't true and sometimes the accusers do it to ruin lives, because there are some nasty people out there. Look at the AH-JD thing.
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eaglefan129
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 29, 2021 10:47:29 GMT
I find it interesting that we're always told to "see both sides" whenever someone is abused or harassed. As if the "other side" having problems too or the "other side" interpreting it differently suddenly makes this behavior okay No. It's because sometimes these accusations aren't true and sometimes the accusers do it to ruin lives, because there are some nasty people out there. Look at the AH-JD thing. "AH-JD"?
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Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 29, 2021 11:09:55 GMT
Ah yes, the Annabel Hornswoggle v Jeremiah Dimpledoop case.
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bierkrug
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 383 Likes: 701
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bierkrug on Jul 29, 2021 12:08:12 GMT
No. It's because sometimes these accusations aren't true and sometimes the accusers do it to ruin lives, because there are some nasty people out there. Look at the AH-JD thing. "AH-JD"? Amber Heard & Johnny Depp.
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 29, 2021 12:58:20 GMT
I find it interesting that we're always told to "see both sides" whenever someone is abused or harassed. As if the "other side" having problems too or the "other side" interpreting it differently suddenly makes this behavior okay No. It's because sometimes these accusations aren't true and sometimes the accusers do it to ruin lives, because there are some nasty people out there. Look at the AH-JD thing. Eh, I’d say that it’s not the best comparison to be made, because from what I can find and read, their situation is more about two people that abused each others, then the accused being innocent and the accuser being a full liar.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 29, 2021 13:05:16 GMT
Lol, any woman who plots to ruin a man's life with erroneous rape or assault accusations is going to find herself with quite the uphill battle.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 29, 2021 13:12:24 GMT
"I know! I'll call the police, submit myself to their questioning and an invasive examination, the results of which will go in a backlog of thousands of other tests, never to see the light of day, get pressured by district attorneys to drop the charges, go to court, potentially spend thousands and thousands (if not tens of thousands) of dollars on legal representation, face a tidal wave of disbelief and mockery from friends, strangers, and potentially the mass media, and probably lose the suit anyway! That'll show him!"
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1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jul 29, 2021 15:28:57 GMT
In this thread: a perfect demonstration of why women don't report this stuff! It's not surprising that harassment has happened at BioWare - it's completely rampant in both the games industry and tech in general. You think the studios that make your favourite games are bad, you should hear about the ones that make your banking software. Which is not to excuse them - the entire industry needs to clean up its act. ( And to unionise.) But... that's COMMUNISM!!!1 Unless it is a police union.It's not surprising that harassment has happened at BioWare Sam Maggs never said she was harassed, just “betrayed.” Or at least, that’s what she’s been told by her therapist (ie. the professional she pays to tell her that all her problems are someone else’s fault). Well, that's very much not my experience with behavioural therapists across a decade. At least one can usually choose to pay that therapist. Unlike, say paying for the salary of conservative ideologues in politics who like to harp that absolutely everything is one's personal fault.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:44:15 GMT
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1,925
Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 29, 2021 16:06:10 GMT
Believe of me whatever false things you like to justify disregarding what I’ve said.
I’m very sorry BioWare didn’t turn out to be the magic dream factory Sam Maggs hoped it would be. No doubt we’ll be hearing a lot more about her time in the EA concentration camp that is the Edmonton studio closer to DA4’s release.
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q5tyhj
shut up and smoke that
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q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 29, 2021 16:16:17 GMT
Taking things with a grain of salt is fine, if you know something about her that would warrant as such. It doesn’t change the fact that there are people that worked on BioWare at the time, and seemingly on the same project with her, that replied to her tweets and agreed with what she said. That, and Bioware’s not stellar reputation as a work envinronment in the last decade at least, should also be put on the plate when considering if she’s telling the truth or not, not just other informations you might have about her. you're giving the people jumping on Maggs waaaaay too much credit: this isn't about reason or evidence, its about bashing evil feminist SJWs for speaking out, regardless how legitimate their complaints may happen to be (and as you say, this case appears to be very credible given what else we know about BW)
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Post by smilesja on Jul 29, 2021 16:17:30 GMT
Taking things with a grain of salt is fine, if you know something about her that would warrant as such. It doesn’t change the fact that there are people that worked on BioWare at the time, and seemingly on the same project with her, that replied to her tweets and agreed with what she said. That, and Bioware’s not stellar reputation as a work envinronment in the last decade at least, should also be put on the plate when considering if she’s telling the truth or not, not just other informations you might have about her. you're giving the people jumping on Maggs waaaaay too much credit: this isn't about reason or evidence, its about bashing evil feminist SJWs for speaking out, regardless how legitimate their complaints may happen to be (and as you say, this case appears to be very credible given what else we know about BW)
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shut up and smoke that
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 29, 2021 16:17:57 GMT
you're giving the people jumping on Maggs waaaaay too much credit: this isn't about reason or evidence, its about bashing evil feminist SJWs for speaking out, regardless how legitimate their complaints may happen to be (and as you say, this case appears to be very credible given what else we know about BW) truth hurts eh
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githcheater
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
Posts: 811 Likes: 937
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0
937
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Aug 13, 2016 20:29:15 GMT
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by githcheater on Jul 29, 2021 16:18:12 GMT
Believe of me whatever false things you like to justify disregarding what I’ve said. Thanks, Yoda ... LOL
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 29, 2021 16:46:38 GMT
No, no. Yoda would have said, “In false things you believe to justify disregarding what I’ve said, you will.”
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 17:05:07 GMT
Wow.
Sam Maggs is a "liar" because she has changed her stance on boobies in video games.
She also was a paid shill for a bit. She is also still quite young.
Hilariously, she hasn't taken away anything, boobies or otherwise, from anyone - just like she said she wouldn't. Because that is far beyond her power, and desire.
Anyone doubting her about BioWare culture during her time there is in denial, deep deep denial. I would argue willful ignorance on several matters as well, which is one of my biggest turn-offs ever.
Cling to whatever narratives you must, but yikes I smell some serious incel energy going on here and it is gross.
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 29, 2021 17:07:58 GMT
Believe of me whatever false things you like to justify disregarding what I’ve said. I’m very sorry BioWare didn’t turn out to be the magic dream factory Sam Maggs hoped it would be. No doubt we’ll be hearing a lot more about her time in the EA concentration camp that is the Edmonton studio closer to DA4’s release. She's not the only one speaking of problems in Bioware's work environment, though, and it's not only women that reported issues while working at Bioware. Even in the case you're right about her lying or exaggerating what happened when she worked at Bioware, we do know that the studio had (hopefully, the situation got better) substantial problems in recent years in its work culture. Her accusation isn't exactly something new.
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 29, 2021 17:10:18 GMT
I don’t doubt there were massive problems at BioWare during the time she worked there. And I never said, “Don’t believe anyone speaking badly about the studio.” I just said, “Don’t believe Sam Maggs.”
My issue is with the person, who has a reputation for lying, vindictiveness and saying whatever is necessary to get her airtime.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 17:11:13 GMT
If you do some simple searching on this topic, there is one person she is speaking about the most, and that person is thankfully no longer at BioWare.
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Post by wickedcool on Jul 29, 2021 17:13:09 GMT
What else do we really know? BioWare seems to present itself as a very inclusive company. Are there bad actors still there. I’ve never heard management involved like other companies Do we know which team she was on? Writing graphic etc
I like how we throw American politics but it’s a Canadian company
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 29, 2021 17:15:39 GMT
I don’t doubt there were massive problems at BioWare during the time she worked there. And I never said, “Don’t believe anyone speaking badly about the studio.” I just said, “Don’t believe Sam Maggs.” My issue is with the person. What did she do, exactly? Again though, there are other people that seemingly worked with her and confirming what she's saying, as well as pointing out similar stuff happening to other female devs. I doubt they're all lying to make her look good or make people believe she's telling the truth. Even current Bioware devs are liking or 'supporting' with tweets her thread of tweets. Putting aside Maggs, and speaking in general, a lying person can still tell the truth, and if what they said is supported by others, it gives them credibility.
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 29, 2021 17:18:45 GMT
If you do some simple searching on this topic, there is one person she is speaking about the most, and that person is thankfully no longer at BioWare. Which dev is she referring to? What else do we really know? BioWare seems to present itself as a very inclusive company. Are there bad actors still there. I’ve never heard management involved like other companies Do we know which team she was on? Writing graphic etc I like how we throw American politics but it’s a Canadian company Bioware definitely had big work envinroment issues in recent years, as well as a pretty bad crunch culture.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 17:21:08 GMT
Per DragonKingReborn 's post earlier, I guess I shouldn't be naming names of past devs, whether or not they did or did not do bad things. So, I will use initials. JW. And if this is too much, please edit or delete my post.
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