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Post by colfoley on Apr 14, 2022 10:53:23 GMT
2. Perhaps case in point here... but which Qunari? I read Three Trees till Midnight still and the Qunari...Antaam at least...was still off giving doses of saar-qamek to anything that moved and was doing it in such a way that was completly lobotomizing people and they were still quite uninterested in mages. Yes, but those were bad qunari, Colfoley. You see, now there are good qunari like the Huntmaster (tolerant, accepting of mages, willing to allow escaped prisoners to leave despite their use of magic) and bad qunari like Bas-taar (violent, uses qamek indiscriminately, probably led by Rasaan). Y'see, there used to be just one qunari faction that essentially wanted to improve Thedas but had elements of their culture that were incompatible with the rest of Theodosian society. But now they're splitting in two, likely so that we don't have to deal with any moral dissonance about partnering with the Qunari to take down that mean ol' Dread Wolf (and maybe end slavery in Tevinter if we've got time before supper). While it is certainly possible that things will change and have changed in the years since DAI has come out...I mean a lot has changed in my own life. All we can really look at is the last example of what they have released and Inquisition you had. -A Tevinter Magister who was kind of OK with slavery and never really thought of it as a bad thing. Granted his exposure to the Inquisition may have moderated his views and got him to think about it...but still we worked with this guy to stop the Elder One. -A very pro Circle Mage who also wanted to use the Circle to advance her own cause and assume power. A real social climber. While her position was unique and I certainly welcomed it it is still very unpopular within the fandom for good reason...and her own motivations are kind of thus...we still were recommended to work with her. -Solas, while his plans were unknown to us as his identity still had very dark asperations. -And a murderer who was trying to run a con on us to hide. Sure he could atone but... Which the point is BioWare really hasn't had much of an issue having us work with some very questionable people to advance our interests to varying degrees. The 'varying degrees' owing to DA is actually still a pretty descent RPG so player gets to make input on most of these things but it is quite telling how BioWare does things...so if we are to work with the Qunari I doubt they will be especially 'good.' As far as the Hunt Master is concerned my understanding of the Qun has their roles very specifically defined in what they do and do not do. Actually kinda like the above. I didn't think the Huntmaster really had a lessening of attitude just that his main job was to help hunt down corruption within the Qun...which whatever Strife was doing falls outside of his current interests. Which I'm not sure I mind. My general observation of trends within fiction is that monolithic 'evil' forces tend to get more nuance and shades of gray added to them the more we explore them. This is natural as sequels tend to get more time to add depth to their respective world. And as a bonus the Qunari has always been portrayed as inherently monolothic with little exposure by the people of Thedas....so we are learning this nuance right with them. Does this mean the Qunari will become inherently much *lighter* and *good*? I don't think it has to. Just that we are going to see different perspectives and the divide between secret police and soldier will be interesting to explore.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 14, 2022 14:41:22 GMT
Just that we are going to see different perspectives and the divide between secret police and soldier will be interesting to explore. This is why I'm hoping we get to work with Rasaan, a high ranking member of the priesthood, rather than one of their enforcers/spies or a soldier, even if the Arishok was the top soldier. We have frequently been told that the Arishok and the Antaam are the face of the Qun we see the most but there is a lot more to them than that, whilst the secret police are still just following orders and dealing with others that don't, but a high ranking priestess, second only to the Ariqun, should be able to give us insights into the Qun that are unique to her position. I would find that really interesting. Even if we don't get Rasaan, another priestess would do and given the concept art I am hopeful that will be the case, unless the qunari lady is a Tal-Vashoth but she could still be a renegade priestess, which would be even better as she wouldn't have any qualms about telling us all their secrets.
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Post by Solas on Apr 14, 2022 16:57:10 GMT
DAO began development in 2002. DA4 will release in 2023 or later. that's more than two whole ass decades. time passes, times change, and norms and social mores change, as they have ever done. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ tis just some pronouns in a blogpost anyways, goodness me
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 14, 2022 17:19:12 GMT
Sanshee will be at #PAXEast @teamsansheeBrighten up your days with our #DragonAge Golden Nug Plush and go from routine to regal in no time! From the most basic bedrooms to the glittering gilded halls in Val Royeaux, these limited quantity beauties will make your life a little more golden!
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Post by smilesja on Apr 14, 2022 17:39:21 GMT
DAI was still plenty dark with the transgender inclusion. Years later and people are still up and arms over that? I thought SJWs constantly whine. Probably it's just worrying about how much more proselytizing we're gonna get. I don't have a desire to get gender theory lessons while I'm trying to get immersed in a semi dark fantasy world. Don't worry we'll get political backstabbings, war and possible genocide. A transgender character is not going to get in the way of the overall story they're going to tell.
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Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 14, 2022 17:58:21 GMT
BioWare @biowareGet to know John Epler (@eplerjc), Creative Director for the Dragon Age franchise, in the first of our BioWare Developer Story series. x.ea.com/73361Friends! Welcome to the first of many BioWare Developer Stories! In this series, we’ll be talking with our colleagues here at the studio about their histories, what they do at BioWare, what makes this such a special place to work, and all sorts of other topics. Today’s lucky contestant is John Epler, Creative Director for the Dragon Age franchise. John’s been at BioWare since the late ‘00s, but he actually didn’t get his start on the creative side of things at all. In fact, before BioWare he was in a different field entirely: the audiovisual trade. THE STORY SO FAR“I was selling TVs,” John says. “I knew I wanted to get into games, though, and at the time BioWare was hiring term testers, which is a contract position in QA.” (That’s Quality Assurance, the folks who track down bugs and other issues.) “I got lucky enough to run into a couple of BioWare people at the store and mentioned that I’d applied. I got an interview, got the job, and I’ve been working at BioWare ever since.” After a few years in QA, John started working as a cinematic designer on Dragon Age: Origins, which he describes as working with a huge library of animations to put together cinematic scenes. “It’s largely about knowing the animation library well enough to be able to go, ‘Oh, I need someone to walk backwards for three seconds; here’s the animation that does that,’” he says. “So you round up all the appropriate animations and stitch them into a finished scene.” John remained a cinematic designer through Dragon Age: Inquisition, graduating to lead cinematic designer for Inquisition’s DLC. From there he moved into the narrative director role for the next game, which is more about the story and characters of a game as a whole. “You’re focused on narrative as more of a holistic experience,” as he puts it. And now, as creative director, he takes an even wider view, “keeping an eye on the game, and the franchise, as a whole,” he says, “and making calls about where to focus resources on the project.” ON DRAGON AGE With all this Dragon Age experience, you might expect John feels a strong connection to the series—and you would be correct: When we ask about some memorable moments from his time with BioWare, he goes right to the closing days of Inquisition’s development. “We were finishing out the Redcliffe scenes,” he says, “and one of our audio guys called me down to listen to what he’d been working on. I remember standing there, hearing the theme kick in, and thinking, ‘Oh, wow. We might have something special on our hands here.’ We’d put so much of ourselves into this thing, and it was finally coming together.” It’s a scene where the player has to decide what their character believes in. And that kind of moment is one of the hallmarks of the series, John says. “Faith is a big theme throughout the games,” he explains. “Not faith in a religious sense, necessarily, but belief in something—whether that something is a wholly unknowable figure, or another person, or even just yourself. And the games look at what happens when that belief is challenged, or completely broken.” John’s connection to the franchise extends even outside of the games themselves: He contributed to the 2020 short story anthology Dragon Age: Tevinter Nights. So naturally, we had to ask how writing a short story compares to writing on games. “Honestly, both have their own challenges,” he says. “Writing games has to consider interactivity, budget, branching, technical needs…so the actual writing is only a small part of the job. Fiction is easier in that I can write whatever I want because there’s never going to be someone building any of it. But I think you lose a lot of shortcuts that you get in games. Like, I hate writing fight scenes—but in a game, I can say ‘and there should be a fight here’ and I never, ever have to write another fight scene.” ON BIOWARE There’s a reason Dragon Age makes such an impression even on the people who help make it. “Dragon Age is really about the people,” John says. “The stuff with BioWare games that tends to get referenced the most—the things you hear people bring up time and time again—it’s almost never the big critical-path beats. It’s the character beats, and at their best, those critical-path beats and those character beats become the same thing. It’s about how those characters interact with each other; ‘family is where you find it’ is a pretty core theme for all of our games.” And John’s introduction to the studio’s own cast of characters was an especially memorable one. “My very first day at BioWare was the day they held the Mass Effect launch party,” he says. “It was at our local science center, and they had the game playable on the planetarium screen! We had the run of the place after hours—it was pretty incredible.” He pauses. “It may have set the bar way too high.” And what would John be doing if he hadn’t found his way to the studio? “Honestly, I don’t know,” he says. “I nearly ended up working at a paper supply company before I got the job at BioWare, so maybe that? There’s an alternate universe John out there somewhere that’s basically—I want to say Jim from The Office, but I’ll be honest and say Andy—and he’s living that life, and probably making games in his spare time. But it’s hard to imagine, honestly. I’ve been working here for nearly a third of the time I’ve been alive!” John Epler is the creative director for the Dragon Age franchise. You can find him on Twitter at @eplerjc.
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Post by Serza on Apr 14, 2022 18:22:07 GMT
I don’t have an issue with transgender characters existing in Dragon Age. That cat is thoroughly out of the bag. But the thought of having multiple conversations about gender identities in DA4, as well as an inevitable shift to make the setting more progressive and less “offensive,” just makes me feel tired. And old.
Too late, it already happened.
Even my sister lives in a wildly different fashion because of the progress that happened between us.
I'm just trying to roll with it, and keep repeating that thing about personal freedoms like a mantra.
DAI was still plenty dark with the transgender inclusion. Years later and people are still up and arms over that? I thought SJWs constantly whine.
I think it's really more about how, the older you get, the harder it gets to accept new ideas. That saying about old dog and new tricks holds.
When I grew up, it was common knowledge that homosexuals made up approximately 4% of the population. Matter of fact, the "smart" kids in my class back on elementary used "four-percenter" as an insult countless times.
These days, it's getting pretty obvious that was the amount of people for whom that was the case, AND they had the (figurative...) balls to let others know.
However... As a kid, you just absorb information a lot faster and easier. We also tend to be nostalgic to when we were kids for whatever reason.
That, and I feel really fucking old these days. Things seemed simpler when I was younger. I don't know what to do with all these complications. If that makes me one of your fancy words for not so cool folks... well, I guess I'll have to deal with it. But frankly all I want at this point is to be left alone.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Apr 14, 2022 18:36:05 GMT
Things weren't simpler when you were younger, you were. The complexities you encounter these days aren't of any greater degree than they have ever been, but you have aged up to the level where you are aware of them and have to deal with them. As such, you are now much busier. So you have less time to dedicate to familiarizing yourself with the unfamiliar and new technologies/concepts/social attitudes/behaviors. It's discouraging and annoying that you find yourself less capable of addressing these new things. The easy path is to treat them as unworthy of your precious time and attention, to discriminate against them. But the best approach is to be tolerant of the new things and patient with yourself as you learn.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 14, 2022 18:47:15 GMT
I think I’ll just die of old age instead. That seems easier.
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Post by Serza on Apr 15, 2022 8:50:56 GMT
Things weren't simpler when you were younger, you were. The complexities you encounter these days aren't of any greater degree than they have ever been, but you have aged up to the level where you are aware of them and have to deal with them. As such, you are now much busier. So you have less time to dedicate to familiarizing yourself with the unfamiliar and new technologies/concepts/social attitudes/behaviors. It's discouraging and annoying that you find yourself less capable of addressing these new things. The easy path is to treat them as unworthy of your precious time and attention, to discriminate against them. But the best approach is to be tolerant of the new things and patient with yourself as you learn.
True.
It also doesn't help that I perceive this as politics, and I absolutely abhore politics in my games. This is where I go precisely because NONE OF IT IS REAL.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 15, 2022 11:17:12 GMT
Things weren't simpler when you were younger, you were. The complexities you encounter these days aren't of any greater degree than they have ever been, but you have aged up to the level where you are aware of them and have to deal with them. As such, you are now much busier. So you have less time to dedicate to familiarizing yourself with the unfamiliar and new technologies/concepts/social attitudes/behaviors. It's discouraging and annoying that you find yourself less capable of addressing these new things. The easy path is to treat them as unworthy of your precious time and attention, to discriminate against them. But the best approach is to be tolerant of the new things and patient with yourself as you learn.
True.
It also doesn't help that I perceive this as politics, and I absolutely abhore politics in my games. This is where I go precisely because NONE OF IT IS REAL.
I think it's a matter of perspective, though. I think that every DA game had political themes in them, at least from my perspective.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 15, 2022 12:32:43 GMT
Regarding gender issues (read up-posts)
You know, the tech level of the DA lore is around our western medieval societies in Europe. Those were hard times to live in. No education to speak of. Odd beliefs handed down from parents (such as cutting the end of a cucumber and rub the two pieces together to get a froth which removed the poison). Peasants in particular worked from dawn to dusk eeking out a meagre living with a life expactancy of 35 years.. Basically, 99% of a country's population were just too busy staying alive and no time for anything else.
What's my point? Well, in such a setting, the great unwashed had no time to argue/discuss about gender issues or identity politics. These are the fruits of an educated society with too much time on their hands. Therefore, a game that depicts a medieval society and includes a trans char makes no sense to me. So, did the game improve with the character Krem? No, It didn't. Krem was introduced into the game for internal reasons based on current societal issues (imo). Will DA4 be a better game if our NPCs discuss LGBWQRSTXYZ issues? I really, really doubt it.
Regardless, with DA4 "not far off", I hope that Bio will stick to what they're known for... fantastic stories, wonderful places, characters that "come alive", interesting conversations (I like the ones in DA:O) and avoid introducing divisive issues that has nothing to do with the story setting. Especially today, with the social media platforms that can cut you down quickly and viciously. Bio certainly cannot afford to attract negative attention.
Anyway, looking forward to play an enjoyable game in a year or two.
(◔‿◔)
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Post by bierkrug on Apr 15, 2022 14:03:33 GMT
These are the fruits of an educated society with too much time on their hands. Agreed, I'd go a step further and call it sheer decadence. This may fit a character like Maevaris who has too much money and power and comes from an already decadent society but some lower class woman like Krem? Nah.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Apr 15, 2022 14:20:20 GMT
The thing a lot of people seem to forget is that a game that has no queer characters, no characters of colour, not much in the way of female characters etc. is every bit as political as a game that does. The politics of those games is to uphold the idea that white men are the most important, interesting, and impactful people there are, the natural heros of every story, and all the rest of us chumps better sit back and accept this glaringly obvious truth. I'm pretty old and tired of those politics, myself.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 15, 2022 14:36:31 GMT
Regarding gender issues (read up-posts)
You know, the tech level of the DA lore is around our western medieval societies in Europe. Those were hard times to live in. No education to speak of. Odd beliefs handed down from parents (such as cutting the end of a cucumber and rub the two pieces together to get a froth which removed the poison). Peasants in particular worked from dawn to dusk eeking out a meagre living with a life expactancy of 35 years.. Basically, 99% of a country's population were just too busy staying alive and no time for anything else.
What's my point? Well, in such a setting, the great unwashed had no time to argue/discuss about gender issues or identity politics. These are the fruits of an educated society with too much time on their hands. Therefore, a game that depicts a medieval society and includes a trans char makes no sense to me. So, did the game improve with the character Krem? No, It didn't. Krem was introduced into the game for internal reasons based on current societal issues (imo). Will DA4 be a better game if our NPCs discuss LGBWQRSTXYZ issues? I really, really doubt it.
Regardless, with DA4 "not far off", I hope that Bio will stick to what they're known for... fantastic stories, wonderful places, characters that "come alive", interesting conversations (I like the ones in DA:O) and avoid introducing divisive issues that has nothing to do with the story setting. Especially today, with the social media platforms that can cut you down quickly and viciously. Bio certainly cannot afford to attract negative attention.
Anyway, looking forward to play an enjoyable game in a year or two.
(◔‿◔)
________________________________
I bet there are people out there that could make the claim that the armor and weapon systems in any fantasy based game is unrealistic for a medieval society for they would custom make a set of armor and wouldn't have multiple selections of materials. BioWare is known for their inclusivity and including different social aspects into their games so now adding LGTBQ issues is par for the course for BioWare.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Apr 15, 2022 16:54:35 GMT
The thing a lot of people seem to forget is that a game that has no queer characters, no characters of colour, not much in the way of female characters etc. is every bit as political as a game that does. The politics of those games is to uphold the idea that white men are the most important, interesting, and impactful people there are, the natural heros of every story, and all the rest of us chumps better sit back and accept this glaringly obvious truth. I'm pretty old and tired of those politics, myself. This is true but you also run a risk of the old 'If you try and please everyone you please no one' due to the fact that games have limited resources.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Apr 15, 2022 17:15:40 GMT
Naaah, you should know that the good people in-universe all have to subscribe to Andrastianism, else it is villain ball or idiot ball for you. And now I'm again left wondering what's modern or "progeressive" about a western Christian-coded blob religion, given everything else is seemingly regarded as "backwards" by writing consensus. I mean lets not forget that this is a setting with several villainous idiotic members of the Chantry either... ... not what I was talking about. Besides... with all the "yuck, that's woke!" folks being so reliable, I guess we can have at least a single user (that'd be me) ranting about tone-deafness with regards to theo-fascim... at least sometimes? True. It also doesn't help that I perceive this as politics, and I absolutely abhore politics in my games. This is where I go precisely because NONE OF IT IS REAL.
I think it's a matter of perspective, though. I think that every DA game had political themes in them, at least from my perspective. Yeah, it depends on the issue at hand. I honestly think that trying to critisise "politics" is a bit beside the point without elaborating. Usually it is the details. Like, a kind of "politics" which I dislike in DA would be the attempts at nonsense centrism or weird apologia for what is otherwise a perfectly... fine totalitarian idea (like, the andrastian Chantry and its enforcers or the Qun or orlesian nobility...).
I'm not that old I guess, as I grew up with it... but did people born in the late 60s to early 70s complain about the issues of the 90s, like all the plots involving cloning?
Regardless, with DA4 "not far off", I hope that Bio will stick to what they're known for... fantastic stories, wonderful places, characters that "come alive", interesting conversations (I like the ones in DA:O) and avoid introducing divisive issues that has nothing to do with the story setting. Especially today, with the social media platforms that can cut you down quickly and viciously. Bio certainly cannot afford to attract negative attention.
Anyway, looking forward to play an enjoyable game in a year or two. But that there you have your point. Western medieval whatever. It is not as if, say, Christianity hasn't a pretty intense obsession with gender stuff. Of course anything not like that what is precribed was/is to be exterminated ('nuff records of various kinds of ethnociders... uhm, missionaries being very involved with that). It is more like whose negative attention you'd want to avoid I suppose ... is it just my impression or do you want to advise Bioware to avoid "cancellation" by social conservatives? These are the fruits of an educated society with too much time on their hands. Agreed, I'd go a step further and call it sheer decadence. This may fit a character like Maevaris who has too much money and power and comes from an already decadent society but some lower class woman like Krem? Nah. Hmm, isn't the JKR & crowd claiming to be feminist? By medieval standards, that's pretty decadent I suppose. --- Anyway, what I'd take issue with in regards to any LGBT+ stuff is first being railroaded (via auto-dialogue for example) into being inconsiderate/jerk and then being lectured by an NPC (especially if that NPC has an otherwise appaling record in terms of acceptance or is avid member of a group which has, like mainstream andrastianism and its templars, mainstream Qun...). Don't do that, Bioware.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 15, 2022 17:30:47 GMT
elle tchi 💙💛 @elenatchii sometimes i boot up DAI to remember the old character creator and woof those hairstyles still hurt me 😭 (it might also be a "fashion was different back in 2014 thing, like some of the mullets look actually kinda good in 2022 🤔)
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 15, 2022 17:52:14 GMT
sometimes i boot up DAI to remember the old character creator Is this a tweet from one of the team? I ask because if they are then it is interesting they refer to the "old" character creator, which suggests we could be getting a new, better one in DA4. Obviously, if this is just a fan, then ignore me.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 15, 2022 17:56:38 GMT
sometimes i boot up DAI to remember the old character creator Is this a tweet from one of the team? I ask because if they are then it is interesting they refer to the "old" character creator, which suggests we could be getting a new, better one in DA4. Obviously, if this is just a fan, then ignore me. Yeah, Elle is a senior technical animator at BW. And undoubtedly we'll see a new CC in DA4. It'll just be a question of what level of fidelity/customizability they're aiming for...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 15, 2022 18:03:20 GMT
sometimes i boot up DAI to remember the old character creator Is this a tweet from one of the team? I ask because if they are then it is interesting they refer to the "old" character creator, which suggests we could be getting a new, better one in DA4. Obviously, if this is just a fan, then ignore me. Could be one that’s worse though. MEA and Anthem were downgrades of DAI for example.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 15, 2022 18:05:19 GMT
These are the fruits of an educated society with too much time on their hands. Therefore, a game that depicts a medieval society and includes a trans char makes no sense to me. This may fit a character like Maevaris who has too much money and power and comes from an already decadent society but some lower class woman like Krem? Nah. Just because medieval history doesn't have a wealth of trans people recorded doesn't necessarily mean they did not exist. If anything the reason we don't know about them is because they were from the peasant classes, so either weren't around long enough to register on society outside their village or were actively persecuted. That is why I drew the distinction between Maevaris and Krem as being that Maevaris was able to continue to operate in Tevinter whilst Krem was not. Also, Krem's story highlighted another aspect, which is that the family wanted Krem to marry to improve the family fortunes. This would also have been a feature of medieval society where pressure is brought to bear to conform for the sake of your family. As Dragon Age frequently highlights, this would affect all classes and in some ways the higher echelons more than the peasant, because of the aspects of inheritance and social status that determined who was a suitable match more than personal feelings on the matter. As I said on the previous page, I feel the incorporation of Krem (since we never meet Maevaris in DAI and have no way of knowing her backstory if you haven't read the comics) wasn't glaringly out of place in the setting. In fact, call me stupid of you like, but I didn't realise Krem was trans until offered the dialogue option about it, which is the whole point really with the majority of trans people because they don't want it to be obvious they are trans but accepted as the gender they identify with.
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Post by githcheater on Apr 15, 2022 18:05:29 GMT
True.
It also doesn't help that I perceive this as politics, and I absolutely abhore politics in my games. This is where I go precisely because NONE OF IT IS REAL.
I think it's a matter of perspective, though. I think that every DA game had political themes in them, at least from my perspective. I just do not want political preaching and being told what to think.
I alluded previously that I did not think Krem was presented overbearingly, so I suppose I should not worry much. However some Bioware employees are somewhat vocal about politics on Twitter, so I wonder anyway.
I just hope the game is presented as "moral-neutral" rather than with an obvious political slant (progressive, conservative, green, libertarian, fascist etc) ...sort of like the mages versus templars tend to be presented neutrally.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 15, 2022 18:19:24 GMT
BioWare @biowareDo you want to be a part of the next Mass Effect, Dragon Age or Star Wars: The Old Republic games? Come work at BioWare! bit.ly/3HOnaCo
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Post by Serza on Apr 15, 2022 19:28:18 GMT
True.
It also doesn't help that I perceive this as politics, and I absolutely abhore politics in my games. This is where I go precisely because NONE OF IT IS REAL.
I think it's a matter of perspective, though. I think that every DA game had political themes in them, at least from my perspective.
It could be I was too young to notice, then.
Then I got older, and honestly, I feel MUCH, MUCH older than I really am at times. Not exactly good when trying to accept new order of things. Then you add in the fact my country hasn't really been hit with all the new stuff yet... I perfectly identify with Homer's father in that scene at times. Although... I never was "with it" when I think about it.
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