Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 19, 2022 8:56:21 GMT
D avid Gaider @davidgaiderPersonally, I remember how difficult to was to let go of the Old God Baby being a major plot thing, as it existed in a quantum state that was too expensive to have the divergence I'd originally imagined. I also feel for the Mass Effect developers wrestling with the ME3 endings. I've already given my thoughts on this subject on the dedicated thread but it is interesting he specifically referenced the OGB as that was the one that immediately sprang to my mind. Also, he does seem to assume that the next ME game will create problems with establishing a canon from the ME3 endings. Is that simply because, like us, he has seen the trailer and assumes this is the case or has he heard more from someone on the inside? Patrick Weekes @patrickweekesRead this thread hoping you had a magical answer I had heretofore not considered, but thanks for the pickle I've mentioned PW having to inherit a half finished story over on the dedicated thread. I don't think our previous decisions should have caused him too many headaches but could he be thinking more about how they will continue the franchise if we are allowed to make a world changing decision at the end of DA4? Going by some of the comments I have read in the past I am not sure if they will have any kind of world altering decision or at least when the decision comes to the end it will have different impacts as a copout. So if they choose to help Solas end the Fade as an example, Solas himself decides he cannot commit genocide and kill everyone to undo his mistake type of thing. As a warning I am basing that on companions and what happens if they live or die.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 19, 2022 8:59:09 GMT
David Gaider @davidgaiderIf a future sequel of, say, Dragon Age or Mass Effect required making a previous decision canon, would you be upset? [ ] Yes, it’d ruin the games [ ] Yes, if it’s not MY canon [ ] Not if the story was cool [ ] It’s a new game it’s fine
Option 4 for me. Call it the disinformation game where truth goes out the window in wartime.... standard practice. Besides, a new game, a Tevinter setting and no old characters gives the writers room to create the story without baggage. It's not a continuation of DA 1-2-3.
Continuing the series with DA4 and retconning some decision(s) can be upsetting but if done well I'll choose option 3. Now, we all are expecting a continuation of the DA saga because Baldy and Varric are in it. However, if our favorite story teller wakes up from a vivid dream where some decision were not truly made, ... well, that should mitigate the issue.
(◔‿◔)
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2022 9:27:53 GMT
I've already given my thoughts on this subject on the dedicated thread but it is interesting he specifically referenced the OGB as that was the one that immediately sprang to my mind. Also, he does seem to assume that the next ME game will create problems with establishing a canon from the ME3 endings. Is that simply because, like us, he has seen the trailer and assumes this is the case or has he heard more from someone on the inside? I've mentioned PW having to inherit a half finished story over on the dedicated thread. I don't think our previous decisions should have caused him too many headaches but could he be thinking more about how they will continue the franchise if we are allowed to make a world changing decision at the end of DA4? Going by some of the comments I have read in the past I am not sure if they will have any kind of world altering decision or at least when the decision comes to the end it will have different impacts as a copout. So if they choose to help Solas end the Fade as an example, Solas himself decides he cannot commit genocide and kill everyone to undo his mistake type of thing. As a warning I am basing that on companions and what happens if they live or die. this really is the reason you can't have that level of choice.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Apr 19, 2022 10:31:09 GMT
I made the mistake of playing Return to Krondor. Which wasn't nearly as good, but I came to like it after a few play-throughs and was disappointed it was so short. It really felt like they were trying to maximise their profit to content ratio at the time although I wouldn't be surprised to find that Feist was taking a big slice of that. They obviously planned to have sequels, but the poor reception made that impossible. Their control and combat system was just not with the times at all although now that turn-based has made a comeback in cRPGs maybe we can view it in a different light.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Apr 19, 2022 10:34:58 GMT
My personal opinion is that they should avoid world-altering decisions that actually would result in things changing (like the ending of ME) but instead allow us to make impactful choices on a personal level instead - either by making choices that impact individuals we encounter that may be expendable for the overall story or by allowing our characters to voice our choice without it necessarily resulting resulting in said choice (although I suspect this one would anger a lot of people).
Take DAO for example, the choice about the Dark Ritual is great from an RP perspective, but inevitably causes a lot of headache for the devs as the divergent paths are impossible to reconcile in a way fans will be happy with (hence what happened with the child in DAI). It would have been better if the Dark Ritual was mandatory but we at least could decide how to approach it (allowing us to voice our displeasure, being allowed choices as to who would perform it, and so on) or the Dark Ritual was skipped altogether and the Warden always dies (though this would have made me a sad bunny for sure). I don't mind being railroaded somewhat as long as I feel like I can express my feeling about it or how it comes about (like how I in DAI could voice my displeasure to be seen as a religious figure), because we just can't possibly have full freedom.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 19, 2022 12:44:05 GMT
Going by some of the comments I have read in the past I am not sure if they will have any kind of world altering decision or at least when the decision comes to the end it will have different impacts as a copout. So if they choose to help Solas end the Fade as an example, Solas himself decides he cannot commit genocide and kill everyone to undo his mistake type of thing. As a warning I am basing that on companions and what happens if they live or die. this really is the reason you can't have that level of choice. I agree. I prefer the smaller levels of choice myself. To me one of the better ways that BioWare has acknowledged player's choices in Mass Effect was the sequence with Conrad Verner it had a bunch of very small interactions, but they had some level of impact during that short encounter.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2022 13:04:08 GMT
It would have been better if the Dark Ritual was mandatory but we at least could decide how to approach it (allowing us to voice our displeasure, being allowed choices as to who would perform it, and so on) or the Dark Ritual was skipped altogether and the Warden always dies (though this would have made me a sad bunny for sure). This is what I feel is the way they should approach it. If they want a canon ending then they should make that decision and run with it, leaving you to decide how your character reacts to the offer and outcome. So, for example, you could even turn down Morrigan but she simply goes behind your back and seduces Alistair/Loghain without you knowing (which I seem to recall someone even created as a short video back in the day). Then at the end you think you are going to die and surprise! Yes, you would be angry that your decision had not been respected in game but their preferred outcome would be preserved to carry forward. Now I do wonder what they are going to do with the Well of Sorrows decision. May be that is what PW was referring to when he speaks of his "pickle". There is never an option for no one to drink, so someone is now bound to the will of Mythal. Was their preferred option for the narrative that the Inquisitor drinks or Morrigan? Is the only difference in outcome going to be being able to read a few texts and speak to an elven spirit in Trespasser? I hope not or why bother with that whole set up at all? After seeing the epilogue to DAI, it seemed as though who drank might be important in the future but it may be that it will no longer play a part, particularly now the Inquisitor is no longer the main protagonist. Anyway, I do feel that for a franchise that is meant to be ongoing about a setting really important events that can have an impact on the world itself, rather than people or places within it, should be decided in advance by the writing team and not left to player choice. Alternatively, like DAO have the canon ending where the arch-demon dies and then produce a DLC showing the opposite outcome where it doesn't and the HoF doesn't even exist. Sort of "It's a wonderful life in reverse" for those who want to explore a bleaker narrative.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 19, 2022 13:54:16 GMT
A game well done with captivating chars, gripping story, good mechanics and pacing will go a long way. Look at Witcher 3... it sold 40 million copies and 2077 18 million. Now some here poo-pooh W3. Obviously, they are a super minority.
Besides, it's been over 10 years since the last game. I don't really care if some canon is changed. What I remember the most about DA:O and DA2 is the characters and banter and the romance. DA:I was played once. My annoyance with it are the lack of proper KB controls, the loss of mage spells, the poor romance with Cass , the empty Hinterlands and the humping required to explore it and the tedious crafting mechanics... oh.. that sub ping and the War Table quests that earned you 5 of something.
You know, I believe only the DA grognards will howl loudly about a retcon while the majority of DA4 players will be new and won't know the difference.
Just saying .....
(◔‿◔)
PS: The loss of mage spells is a canon change. Yet, DA:I is well accepted.. game of the year even.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2022 17:28:52 GMT
Besides, it's been over 10 years since the last game. I don't really care if some canon is changed....
You know, I believe only the DA grognards will howl loudly about a retcon while the majority of DA4 players will be new and won't know the difference. I felt this way myself at one time and as the time between games extended more and more, I was going to treat DA4 as a new game rather than a sequel. With the action moving north to a part of Thedas we have not visited at all before and with a new protagonist, it seemed an ideal opportunity for them to leave everything connected with previous games in the south, with cameos kept to a minimum, apart from Dorian who is from Tevinter, and the differences in world states largely dealt with by codices. Then came that trailer narrated by Varric which seemed to imply he is going to be involved yet again and it seems they don't want to give themselves a clean slate. It is true that totally new players won't know the difference but alienating the existing fan base is not a good idea if they are hoping for word of mouth promotion. That how I came to the DA universe; I didn't see it advertised, I was advised by an existing player that they thought I would enjoy it.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 19, 2022 18:23:08 GMT
Yep - as mentioned on another topic, implementation matters. Using Leliana as an example. Some players killed her. "Well, she was just dreadfully injured, but survived. Deal with it." "But...I cut off her head." ..... "That was a random animation seen in maybe 10% of cases....so....sorry?" First i doubt that Bioware have big plans for Leliana when DAO was released. In general DAO and even ME 1 were designed with no sequels in minds because they won´t sure if they making them. This is unterstandable after the disappointing Jade Empire sales. Speaking of Leliana i know some people hated the way that they brought a (not really) dead Leliana back but its also important to ask how many player actual kill her in DAO? I would argue not that many so its a legit question why not bring her back for the overwhelming majority of player world states where she lives?
Last but not least Bioware never ignore the event. The warden did try to kill her and this is mentioned several times.
Only the outcome isn´t that people have expected. If you kill some NPC they should stay dead but i would argue this hasn´t to be the case if it can be explained and if this isn´t a major decision. For example unlike Leliana Nathaniel wasn´t brought back because they can´t possible explain how he survived his (even offscreen) execution so they create a new character namely Sebastian Vael. Should have done the same thing with Leliana? Maybe maybe not but Bioware decided that is worth it to bring Leliana back as a major character.
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Post by githcheater on Apr 19, 2022 18:27:33 GMT
A game well done with captivating chars, gripping story, good mechanics and pacing will go a long way. Look at Witcher 3... it sold 40 million copies and 2077 18 million. Now some here poo-pooh W3. Obviously, they are a super minority.
Besides, it's been over 10 years since the last game. I don't really care if some canon is changed. What I remember the most about DA:O and DA2 is the characters and banter and the romance. DA:I was played once. My annoyance with it are the lack of proper KB controls, the loss of mage spells, the poor romance with Cass , the empty Hinterlands and the humping required to explore it and the tedious crafting mechanics... oh.. that sub ping and the War Table quests that earned you 5 of something.
You know, I believe only the DA grognards will howl loudly about a retcon while the majority of DA4 players will be new and won't know the difference.
Just saying .....
(◔‿◔)
PS: The loss of mage spells is a canon change. Yet, DA:I is well accepted.. game of the year even.
__________________
I am hoping for 20 ability options for DA4. For example, perhaps the four way D-pad of the X-Box controller can be used in combination with or without the four main right hand buttons.
I would also like to select weapons in DA4 somewhat like in Shadow of Mordor (sword, bow & stealth/daggar). Shadow of Mordor really used the X-Box buttons to full efficiency. The only controller thing I did not like in Shadow of Mordor was simultaeously hitting two buttons with ONE thumb for an ability (AX,AB, BY & XY).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 19, 2022 21:29:04 GMT
Besides, it's been over 10 years since the last game. I don't really care if some canon is changed....
You know, I believe only the DA grognards will howl loudly about a retcon while the majority of DA4 players will be new and won't know the difference. I felt this way myself at one time and as the time between games extended more and more, I was going to treat DA4 as a new game rather than a sequel. With the action moving north to a part of Thedas we have not visited at all before and with a new protagonist, it seemed an ideal opportunity for them to leave everything connected with previous games in the south, with cameos kept to a minimum, apart from Dorian who is from Tevinter, and the differences in world states largely dealt with by codices. Then came that trailer narrated by Varric which seemed to imply he is going to be involved yet again and it seems they don't want to give themselves a clean slate. It is true that totally new players won't know the difference but alienating the existing fan base is not a good idea if they are hoping for word of mouth promotion. That how I came to the DA universe; I didn't see it advertised, I was advised by an existing player that they thought I would enjoy it. Nah, they missed their chance at a clean break long before that trailer. Trespasser is the thing that doomed that idea, since before that everything in the south (plots, characters, etc) were tied off nicely in a bow.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2022 23:27:11 GMT
A game well done with captivating chars, gripping story, good mechanics and pacing will go a long way. Look at Witcher 3... it sold 40 million copies and 2077 18 million. Now some here poo-pooh W3. Obviously, they are a super minority.
Besides, it's been over 10 years since the last game. I don't really care if some canon is changed. What I remember the most about DA:O and DA2 is the characters and banter and the romance. DA:I was played once. My annoyance with it are the lack of proper KB controls, the loss of mage spells, the poor romance with Cass , the empty Hinterlands and the humping required to explore it and the tedious crafting mechanics... oh.. that sub ping and the War Table quests that earned you 5 of something.
You know, I believe only the DA grognards will howl loudly about a retcon while the majority of DA4 players will be new and won't know the difference.
Just saying .....
(◔‿◔)
PS: The loss of mage spells is a canon change. Yet, DA:I is well accepted.. game of the year even.
__________________
I am hoping for 20 ability options for DA4. For example, perhaps the four way D-pad of the X-Box controller can be used in combination with or without the four main right hand buttons.
I would also like to select weapons in DA4 somewhat like in Shadow of Mordor (sword, bow & stealth/daggar). Shadow of Mordor really used the X-Box buttons to full efficiency. The only controller thing I did not like in Shadow of Mordor was simultaeously hitting two buttons with on thumb for an ability (AX,AB, BY & XY).
I think sixteen active abilities is doable but anything beyond that would be stretching it.
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Apr 20, 2022 0:11:19 GMT
I am hoping for 20 ability options for DA4. For example, perhaps the four way D-pad of the X-Box controller can be used in combination with or without the four main right hand buttons.
I would also like to select weapons in DA4 somewhat like in Shadow of Mordor (sword, bow & stealth/daggar). Shadow of Mordor really used the X-Box buttons to full efficiency. The only controller thing I did not like in Shadow of Mordor was simultaeously hitting two buttons with on thumb for an ability (AX,AB, BY & XY).
I think sixteen active abilities is doable but anything beyond that would be stretching it. Each of the four buttons pressed at the same time as one of the four D pad directions = 16. Add another four abilities when the pressing each of the four buttons without using the direction pad.
ie ... 20 abilities is doable if the D pad can be used this way ...
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2022 8:54:44 GMT
Nah, they missed their chance at a clean break long before that trailer. Trespasser is the thing that doomed that idea, since before that everything in the south (plots, characters, etc) were tied off nicely in a bow. This is true and they have constantly sent conflicting messages about this. Allegedly, Trespasser was meant to tie off the Inquisitor's story, yet that had been done more effectively at the end of the main game. The reduction in influence of the Inquisition could quite easily have been dealt with by a simple codex in DA4, particularly since anyone on an old console couldn't even play Trespasser. Ditto the anchor, which could just have stopped working over time once the Breach had been sealed and the orb destroyed. If the anchor had originally been tied to the orb as part of a set, it would have made sense that the destruction of one would eventually lead to the destruction of the other. In fact, that could have been in the main game; when the orb shattered, the anchor ceased to work, although that would have meant that JoH and the Descent would have to have been set in a time period before the end of the game and you couldn't go on to complete areas once Corypheus had been dealt with, which is why having its power gradually diminish would have been an alternative explanation. Yet, despite side-lining the Inquisitor to make way for a "new hero", the Inquisition is still a major player across Thedas in dealing with the threats presented by red lyrium and Solas. What is more, Solas is aware of this and, despite the assertion that we "need to use new people he doesn't know", characters continue both to lead the investigation and serve it who are known to him. This is why I do find it rather difficult to break with the past myself and treat it as a wholly new game. As I've said before, since the promise of fighting "demons, dragons, darkspawn, even the Dread Wolf" would mean nothing to new players, clearly they were addressing existing fans in making that trailer, together with the assertion "it is time for a new hero". In which case, downplaying or completely ignoring previous decisions for the sake of the current narrative is not really an option for them. Thankfully, PW does seem aware of this. It will be interesting to see how he deals with his "pickle".
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2022 9:22:19 GMT
Going by some of the comments I have read in the past I am not sure if they will have any kind of world altering decision or at least when the decision comes to the end it will have different impacts as a copout. So if they choose to help Solas end the Fade as an example, Solas himself decides he cannot commit genocide and kill everyone to undo his mistake type of thing. Destroying the Veil goes far beyond any decision we have previously made with regard to the outcome. It alters the fabric or reality in a devastating way, as evidenced by what happened when it was created and Solas' own prediction for the likely effect on the other inhabitants of Thedas. There are, of course, various ways they could get round this. Solas has been wrong in the past and didn't foresee the consequences of his actions, or simply ignored them for what he saw as the greater good. So dropping the Veil may not have the results he was hoping for. Perhaps all it does is leave the way open for spirits to cross at will and releases the Evanuris from their prison with the rest of the inhabitants alive but having to deal with these new threats. May be in the process it cleanses the world of the Blight, which is a good thing, and releases the Old Gods as well but now the world has a war of the gods to deal with, which will be the plot in the next game. As for the hero having some agency in the decision, that is easy to overcome because even if they persuade Solas not to go ahead, may be the Dread Wolf/Mythal takes over his consciousness to ensure he completes his plan. May be we discover the ritual cannot be stopped and any decision relates to whether we want to trust Solas to aid us in dealing with the results or simply destroy him in revenge. Or may be we have discovered a way to restore the Veil/strengthen it that we can used to counter his plan. If the hero chooses not to do this, perhaps one of their companions does, even at the cost of their own life. Nevertheless, in the period between dropping the Veil and raising it again, the various "gods" are released. What I feel they cannot fudge if they want to take forward the franchise beyond DA4 is whether or not Solas' plan succeeds to remove the Veil. Either he does and it does not have the dire consequences anticipated, or it does not but some of the consequences of thwarting him have results that are common to both. There has to be a consistency in the world of Thedas going forward that would be common to either decision. Either that, or as with the possible death of Shepard at the end of ME2, you accept that the wrong decision on your part means the death of your hero and at least some of those associated with them. Still even with ME2 that outcome didn't relate to the entire galaxy, just your ability to carry forward your hero to another game. It was the endings of ME3 that left the writing team with the real problem about respecting choices.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 20, 2022 12:53:38 GMT
Going by some of the comments I have read in the past I am not sure if they will have any kind of world altering decision or at least when the decision comes to the end it will have different impacts as a copout. So if they choose to help Solas end the Fade as an example, Solas himself decides he cannot commit genocide and kill everyone to undo his mistake type of thing. Destroying the Veil goes far beyond any decision we have previously made with regard to the outcome. It alters the fabric or reality in a devastating way, as evidenced by what happened when it was created and Solas' own prediction for the likely effect on the other inhabitants of Thedas. There are, of course, various ways they could get round this. Solas has been wrong in the past and didn't foresee the consequences of his actions, or simply ignored them for what he saw as the greater good. So dropping the Veil may not have the results he was hoping for. Perhaps all it does is leave the way open for spirits to cross at will and releases the Evanuris from their prison with the rest of the inhabitants alive but having to deal with these new threats. May be in the process it cleanses the world of the Blight, which is a good thing, and releases the Old Gods as well but now the world has a war of the gods to deal with, which will be the plot in the next game. As for the hero having some agency in the decision, that is easy to overcome because even if they persuade Solas not to go ahead, may be the Dread Wolf/Mythal takes over his consciousness to ensure he completes his plan. May be we discover the ritual cannot be stopped and any decision relates to whether we want to trust Solas to aid us in dealing with the results or simply destroy him in revenge. Or may be we have discovered a way to restore the Veil/strengthen it that we can used to counter his plan. If the hero chooses not to do this, perhaps one of their companions does, even at the cost of their own life. Nevertheless, in the period between dropping the Veil and raising it again, the various "gods" are released. What I feel they cannot fudge if they want to take forward the franchise beyond DA4 is whether or not Solas' plan succeeds to remove the Veil. Either he does and it does not have the dire consequences anticipated, or it does not but some of the consequences of thwarting him have results that are common to both. There has to be a consistency in the world of Thedas going forward that would be common to either decision. Either that, or as with the possible death of Shepard at the end of ME2, you accept that the wrong decision on your part means the death of your hero and at least some of those associated with them. Still even with ME2 that outcome didn't relate to the entire galaxy, just your ability to carry forward your hero to another game. It was the endings of ME3 that left the writing team with the real problem about respecting choices. I was just using destroying the veil as a fast example of where there will be an ending where no matter what the player chooses it will have the same outcome going into future games. What will happen I have no idea or even if it will be a choice, but I think any major decision that might have an impact on future games is going to be minimized now or be written to have the same overall outcome so there isn't any ambiguity to what happens.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Apr 20, 2022 13:11:42 GMT
Destroying the Veil goes far beyond any decision we have previously made with regard to the outcome. It alters the fabric or reality in a devastating way, as evidenced by what happened when it was created and Solas' own prediction for the likely effect on the other inhabitants of Thedas. There are, of course, various ways they could get round this. Solas has been wrong in the past and didn't foresee the consequences of his actions, or simply ignored them for what he saw as the greater good. So dropping the Veil may not have the results he was hoping for. Perhaps all it does is leave the way open for spirits to cross at will and releases the Evanuris from their prison with the rest of the inhabitants alive but having to deal with these new threats. May be in the process it cleanses the world of the Blight, which is a good thing, and releases the Old Gods as well but now the world has a war of the gods to deal with, which will be the plot in the next game. As for the hero having some agency in the decision, that is easy to overcome because even if they persuade Solas not to go ahead, may be the Dread Wolf/Mythal takes over his consciousness to ensure he completes his plan. May be we discover the ritual cannot be stopped and any decision relates to whether we want to trust Solas to aid us in dealing with the results or simply destroy him in revenge. Or may be we have discovered a way to restore the Veil/strengthen it that we can used to counter his plan. If the hero chooses not to do this, perhaps one of their companions does, even at the cost of their own life. Nevertheless, in the period between dropping the Veil and raising it again, the various "gods" are released. What I feel they cannot fudge if they want to take forward the franchise beyond DA4 is whether or not Solas' plan succeeds to remove the Veil. Either he does and it does not have the dire consequences anticipated, or it does not but some of the consequences of thwarting him have results that are common to both. There has to be a consistency in the world of Thedas going forward that would be common to either decision. Either that, or as with the possible death of Shepard at the end of ME2, you accept that the wrong decision on your part means the death of your hero and at least some of those associated with them. Still even with ME2 that outcome didn't relate to the entire galaxy, just your ability to carry forward your hero to another game. It was the endings of ME3 that left the writing team with the real problem about respecting choices. I was just using destroying the veil as a fast example of where there will be an ending where no matter what the player chooses it will have the same outcome going into future games. What will happen I have no idea or even if it will be a choice, but I think any major decision that might have an impact on future games is going to be minimized now or be written to have the same overall outcome so there isn't any ambiguity to what happens. Basically, Udina is councilor in ME3 whether you chose him or not in ME1 or the Rachni queen is in ME3 whether you killed her or not in ME1, right? There are ways to invalidate a previous player choice for the sake of story that work (I'd say Udina being councilor worked out ok with the explanation we're given) and others that don't (the Rachni queen clone explanation was rather poorly done). Or am I misunderstanding?
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 20, 2022 14:49:44 GMT
I was just using destroying the veil as a fast example of where there will be an ending where no matter what the player chooses it will have the same outcome going into future games. What will happen I have no idea or even if it will be a choice, but I think any major decision that might have an impact on future games is going to be minimized now or be written to have the same overall outcome so there isn't any ambiguity to what happens. Basically, Udina is councilor in ME3 whether you chose him or not in ME1 or the Rachni queen is in ME3 whether you killed her or not in ME1, right? There are ways to invalidate a previous player choice for the sake of story that work (I'd say Udina being councilor worked out ok with the explanation we're given) and others that don't (the Rachni queen clone explanation was rather poorly done). Or am I misunderstanding? Yes, but I remember all the memes about how people were angry at how the Rachni Queen was handled or all the companions that were returning in Mass Effect 3. Just because they can find some way around them doesn't mean its a good outcome. There were even people trying to prove BioWare lied to us all along because Anderson didn't stay councilor like it was our choice. That is the problem right now is that BioWare needs to prevent people from taking something they said or did and using it against them like all the other times they have. Right now I think BioWare games need to minimized the amount of self damage they do and not having open ended choices at the end of a game is probably and easy one to make.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2022 15:07:48 GMT
Right now I think BioWare games need to minimized the amount of self damage they do and not having open ended choices at the end of a game is probably and easy one to make. As I was saying, some choices can be allowed to stand because they can work round them but others have too much impact on the setting that they have to limit it to just one outcome. I've already used the example of the end to DAO. The arch-demon has to die but the means of achieving this can vary. I suppose technically doing the dark ritual means the arch-demon, or rather the Old God, doesn't die but is reborn and this could have had implications down the line which were not present if you rejected Morrigan. However, even if they originally had some idea of what this might be, once they knew the franchise was going to continue the outcome for the OGB had to be minimised so the overall effect on the world wasn't markedly different from the other choice. You can see in the epilogue to Trespasser how they are already modifying the outcomes from our choices in DAI, for example mages vs templars or who is Divine, so the world state is returning to a modified status quo no matter what we decided to do. The headache is further diminished by the fact we are heading north next game, so any differences are likely to only affect a few codices and conversations provided they don't choose to give optional characters a cameo role. There are some choices, for example the Well of Sorrows, where they have to accommodate the difference in individual drinker, although any impact on the future plot could still be the same, or they could choose to quietly forget it altogether. However, so far as I am aware there is nothing in the choices we made in DAI that cannot be accommodated in varying world states going forward because they didn't change the entire fabric of Thedas. To get an idea of choices that may at least be acknowledged, I suggest checking the Keep. Some choices are not even acknowledged there so will either not be referenced in the game or they will just run with their canon choice and leave you to deal with it.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 20, 2022 16:33:27 GMT
BioWare @biowareGet to know Maciej Kurowski, Dragon Age’s Technical Director, in our BioWare Developer Story series. #DragonAge x.ea.com/73363
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 20, 2022 17:33:54 GMT
"Another thing is that these games are a mix of pure roleplaying—being able to build your own character and have them act in a variety of different ways—and a strong story. There are a bunch of other really successful RPGs that have more of a simulation approach, where it’s all about freedom. But that can come at the cost of a complex story, and the connection a player makes to that story. I think since BioWare games tend to prioritize storytelling more, while still offering genuine roleplaying, players can really get invested. I think there are few games that can balance those two things as well as Dragon Age does.”
Yes! I could never quite describe what sets BioWare apart from the rest, and why it feels so different for me, but what he's describing pretty much sums it up.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 20, 2022 18:02:17 GMT
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 20, 2022 18:34:17 GMT
Bio cannot afford to canon write, in stone , major choices and consequences, unless the studio plans all of them throught the series from game 1 to n, before starting to dev the game(s).. Unfortunately, the studio didn't, for reasons.... So here we are. The KEEP, for practical reasons shows its limitations, when canon changes are made...
DA4, imo, will also have a totally new main story arc. Bringing along DA:I characters other than Dorian, Varric and Baldy makes no sense and would add filler to justify cameos. However, there is no compelling reason to have Dorian or Varric, except if DA4 is DA:I 2.
MEA divorced itself from the ME trilogy very well. DA4 should do the same. Canon issues solved.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 20, 2022 20:18:27 GMT
I do like the reference to 'bioware games' being their own genre because I have largely been feeling this way and I think even making that claim for years now...BioWare still offers an experience pretty unique to gaming in my regards that is hard for anyone to emulate so far and even across mediumms. A focus on a wide and diverse group of characters, humor which does not take itself too seriously but also dealing with darker themes of war and death, a grand swashbuckling adventure but it also doesen't mind taking time out of its day to explore deeper issues.
Perhaps oddly and maybe controversially only other game which has come close to scratching this itch was Assassins Creed Odyssey. Even Vahalla didn't have that same feel to it.
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