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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 12:44:06 GMT
He loses me in the end, which just seem like sour grapes over Mass Effect 3 and corporatized conspiracy theories over the transition to Andromeda vs anything else as the primary issue as to why the game feels off. I always compared it to being a Forced Awakens -style game, the sort of soft reboot that doesn't tread new ground but tries to fit in the shoes of it's legacy. If anything, that is the real problem; it's risk free on purpose over anything else to be nostalgic over itself. Honestly, it is not BioWares best game, but it is better than most give it credit. Sadly all folks remember are assholes on the internet making fun of facial animations and cherry picking poor line reads maliciously. I refuse to watch these multitude of overanalysis videos on Mass Effect games anymore. Youtubers just grinding for watch minutes is my opinion of them now. Ironically they still get a lot of views even though they've just been parroting each other for a long time now.
It's really time for the internet to just move forward and allow Bioware to move forward. A great game can be made as a sequel to Andromeda. The story can move in a hundred different directions and the characters can grow in any direction as well. Given half a chance, Ryder can become more Shepard-like than Shepard (if that's where Bioware wants to take the story next). I think it was a game just meant to kick things off and that's why they played it so conservative with the dialogue choices and hte plot. It backfired on them, but not so badly that a great game series can't arise from the foundation ME:A has set. I think the internet just needs to back off and let the creative minds a Bioware (Casey, etc.) do their work... and stop dragging their creativity down by flauntingall they're sour-grapes opinions around the internet just to trump up their own view rates.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 26, 2018 16:14:10 GMT
I preferred ME3 combat by a decent margin. Movement felt more real, guns felt more solid, melee worked better even if it had less weapons in sp, 3 active powers sucks, I preferred universal cooldowns to individual though that’s probably related to the 3 powers thing. I liked ME3 combat before MEA came, then it was clear ME3 was very sluggish in combat. Movement felt like a giant was stomping around in a lead suit, guns felt like almost nothing (although most of them still do in MEA too) and all the animations took wayyyy too long to execute and had these large stop gaps when one did them, especially heavy melee/grab and roll (this is my main gripe in DAIMP too, get loot, stand there half a second or more just waiting to continue). I loved the original ME1 style cooldowns as I felt ME2 and ME3 went into wrong direction. This is why I dont think they'll go "back" to ME3 style combat anymore too, MEA introduced way much fluidier combat, I just hope they put more weight behind the gun hits at last in the next installment... Not being able to issue squad commands is the main failure for me in MEA, it could've been handled like something in the middle, not just completely put AI's to work. fex. make time slow down 75-85% during the targeting and command issuing? I don't see ME3 combat as sluggish, I see it as the speed of people running, jumping, rolling with gear. MEA is paper people floating around. The air elemental feel I guess has lore logic e-zero powered armors, jet pack etc. But I don't care for paper people dash. And the only moves with a long wind up time were the power attacks, which is a choice and balancing factor. You can always do a jab really quick. MEA had one move for each weapon and it somehow managed to be more clunky than ME3s melee which was not its highlight.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 26, 2018 16:27:28 GMT
It's funny then, considering the tonal dialogues were put in due to negative feedback on binary choice. I think the real problem is bioware gave nuance for RP reasons and folks wanted more black and white delivery. For example, little in Andromeda is a "bad guy" type of line of dialogue, so it's absence of being an option vs two or four more muddled options is noticable. Personally I prefer the tonal dialogue more, since it allows for situational and character style RP in a game, something folks said was lost with voiced protagonists. I have a theory that those who found it lacking meant they found pure paragon/renegade "cool" moments or dialogue lines completely gutted. You would prefer the tonal dialogue more if the character you intend to play aligns within the character they pretty much wrote, because the choices don't really differentiate the type of character all that much. Especially considering, like the guy on the video said, that you can't adopt a consistent tone all the way through. The character was goofy and more juvenile, a lot of the options reflect that, the professional choice is without flavor, so if you like that sort of character and you prefer to play that sort of character you'd probably love it. I found Shepard more of an adult though, in all of her dialogue and all of her choices. That's what I miss playing, a person who's clearly NOT a teen. I think that is pretty accurate. The problem with how they implemented tonal dialogue for me is it was 2 or 4 slight variations to the same thing. There where a handful of save the AI on veld or kill it choices. But overall it was 2 or 4 choices all being the same choice. Which is fine I guess if Ryder resonated with you, but you don't feel like you are shaping Ryder into your Ryder as he was a lot more set than Shepard despite being the younger supposedly less defined character.
Why should we do X?
We should work do X because logic, professional, love, funny joke why its stupid not to.
It all felt the same. Even more samey than ME1s trick choices.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 27, 2018 15:42:03 GMT
Wasn't bad. I didn't agree with everything but it was well presented. So is this another ME: A sucks video? He actually says he enjoyed his replay of the game and thinks it has a pretty engaging gameplay loop in the combat and nomad. His biggest criticisms are the the storytelling shortfalls.
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Post by SwobyJ on Dec 27, 2018 19:55:29 GMT
I at least mostly agree with it.
MEA isn't a total waste and I'd defend it like hell against the possibility of scrapping all of it when designing the next game, but it is my least favorite ME game and is in contention of being my least or almost least favorite 'modern Bioware' (DAO/DA2/DAI/SWTOR?/ME/ME2/ME3/MEA) title. That still puts it above so much of its (especially if including non-AAA) competition, but there's big disappointments to address, and hopefully without tossing most of the good away.
And regarding company conspiracies (theories), I've seen enough in my personal life about this game to easily believe any or all of the 'theories'. It was not doing well at all 2013-2014, and any peeks behind the curtain of 2015-2016 was a highly stressed and uncertain development that indeed needed a lot of outside (whether Edmonton or otherwise) help.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Dec 28, 2018 19:48:48 GMT
Ehh, he brings up much that I agree with and many problems that I was well aware of previous to the game bring out. The internal issues Andromeda had pretty much fucked it from the start. I was still hoping the rumors weren't true and that the people leaving mid development wasn't because of the internal issues but simply being there for so long (and some of those guys came in specifically for Andromeda and never even stayed to finish it).
My 2 things I disagree with:
1. The combat fluidity is at it's best yes but overall the combat is a downgrade to any other ME game. Andromeda really restricts you on your ability use and I prefer manually taking cover over auto covering, it gives me more control and I won't bitch at the game for forcing me to cover.
2. Going back to resolve the ME3 ending: I mean would I have an issue if they were to do that? Ultimately no but understand you have to do it right, if they (Bioware) were to go back to it, they'd have to find a way to not piss off more people while also appeasing to those they pissed off back then, you also reopen the wound. I do view Andromeda as them running away from the mess they made but at this point why go back and risk more issues? It's been years now and doing these spin-offs like Andromeda can still work. Ultimately I think you can do a mass effect in the milky way or any other Galaxy, they all have the same potential as that's how a space setting works🤷. The milky way itself carries more risk/reward depending on how they touch the Shepard stuff but a MW setting is still doable.
The next ME game, they just need proper management that won't screw around with ideas that won't work or try forcing them in. They wasted what, 1? 1 and a half years on proceedurally generated worlds alone, imagine what that time could've been used for instead. They also need make sure the assets from Andromeda stick around as now that the FB3 has been dabbled in, future ME games should be given even more time to get concepts working. I'm curious how they'll rebound after this, I don't care what setting they pick but I'd prefer a whole new cast of characters as Andromeda was abysmal to me, a Bioware strength was a clear weakness in the game and I haven't been bothered to replay it since launch week (did dabble in the rehashed ME3 multiplayer though for a few months).
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 28, 2018 21:59:14 GMT
I weep when I think about how this game had 5 freaking years to recapture the magic, and just horribly stumbled at almost every step. Mass Effect 3 had a meager 22 months...it breaks my heart all over again, thinking about what could have been if ME3 was given 5 years.
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Post by 10k on Dec 28, 2018 22:49:44 GMT
I really liked that video and agreed with most of his points. I also found this video, which I enjoyed also.
sorry, about that. Just a heads up this guy really speaks in a harsh tone about this game. Just want to give everyone heads up.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 28, 2018 23:48:45 GMT
I really liked that video and agreed with most of his points. I also found this video, which I enjoyed also. Trigger warning for those of you who really loved MEA and can't handle when people overly berate the game. But I agree with his points about the companions in MEA. He is spot on. What does he say about the companions? Not watcghing the video so give me a synopsis please.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 28, 2018 23:54:11 GMT
Basically how the loyalty missions have no consequences regardless of how antagonistic you are towards them, and how PeeBee is basically the only companion with a character arc.
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Post by wright1978 on Dec 29, 2018 16:30:12 GMT
I think that is pretty accurate. The problem with how they implemented tonal dialogue for me is it was 2 or 4 slight variations to the same thing. There where a handful of save the AI on veld or kill it choices. But overall it was 2 or 4 choices all being the same choice. Which is fine I guess if Ryder resonated with you, but you don't feel like you are shaping Ryder into your Ryder as he was a lot more set than Shepard despite being the younger supposedly less defined character.
Why should we do X?
We should work do X because logic, professional, love, funny joke why its stupid not to.
It all felt the same. Even more samey than ME1s trick choices.
Yeah a big problem for me is the lack of range. Varieties of rather samey tone don't really make me feel like i'm able to make my own ryder, unlike me1-2.
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Post by natetrace on Dec 29, 2018 19:01:45 GMT
I really liked that video and agreed with most of his points. I also found this video, which I enjoyed also. Trigger warning for those of you who really loved MEA and can't handle when people overly berate the game. But I agree with his points about the companions in MEA. He is spot on. 50k views on a clickbait video that came out nearly two years after Andromeda? I'm not saying I'm "triggered", but I am saying he sounds like he was three when the first Mass Effect came out. Seeing how he refers to the object of his ridicule as cancer, I'm guessing I'm not far off.
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Post by 10k on Dec 29, 2018 22:45:31 GMT
50k views on a clickbait video that came out nearly two years after Andromeda? I'm not saying I'm "triggered", but I am saying he sounds like he was three when the first Mass Effect came out. Seeing how he refers to the object of his ridicule as cancer, I'm guessing I'm not far off. That's fine, but the guy still makes irrefutable points about the companions. No matter how much they disagree with you or whatever you do to them, they will always become loyal, there is essentially no conflict between Ryder and his crew.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 29, 2018 23:32:12 GMT
Conflict between the PC and the companions is more of a DA thing than an ME thing anyway. Non-loyalty in ME means... performing your job slightly less well than you otherwise would have?
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Post by smilesja on Dec 29, 2018 23:50:14 GMT
I really liked that video and agreed with most of his points. I also found this video, which I enjoyed also. Trigger warning for those of you who really loved MEA and can't handle when people overly berate the game. But I agree with his points about the companions in MEA. He is spot on. Was the trigger warning really necessary? All you’re doing is trying to rile up Androemeda fans?
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Post by 10k on Dec 30, 2018 3:09:17 GMT
Was the trigger warning really necessary? All you’re doing is trying to rile up Androemeda fans? No it was a sincere warning. People who really like MEA really don't like it when it's overly berated like this youtuber does here. I said it so people would know the tone of the video before wasting their time. Only person it seems to have riled up is you, and I'm sorry. Edit: But if anyone else was riled up by it, I'm really sorry. I don't want to be called a troll. I just wanted to add to the discussion I've also have change the OP. I'm really sorry.
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Post by 10k on Dec 30, 2018 3:13:34 GMT
Conflict between the PC and the companions is more of a DA thing than an ME thing anyway. Non-loyalty in ME means... performing your job slightly less well than you otherwise would have? Well that's sort of the point in the video. Why have loyalty missions if it doesn't affect anything? ME2 has them, and if you don't do them the teammate dies. Even ME1 had a loyalty conflict with Wrex during the Virmire mission, and he can die depending on the outcome. If they weren't going to add conflict, why have loyalty missions at all and gain loyalty from them? I mean ME3 did fine without them. But that's all I will say, a conversation with you will always lead in disagreement so It doesn't matter. Thank you for your point of view.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 30, 2018 16:25:46 GMT
Conflict between the PC and the companions is more of a DA thing than an ME thing anyway. Non-loyalty in ME means... performing your job slightly less well than you otherwise would have? Well that's sort of the point in the video. Why have loyalty missions if it doesn't affect anything? ME2 has them, and if you don't do them the teammate dies. Even ME1 had a loyalty conflict with Wrex during the Virmire mission, and he can die depending on the outcome. If they weren't going to add conflict, why have loyalty missions at all and gain loyalty from them? I mean ME3 did fine without them. But that's all I will say, a conversation with you will always lead in disagreement so It doesn't matter. Thank you for your point of view. Works for me. Note that the italed is overstated; non-loyal squadmates can survive the SM just fine if you don't use them for the final battle or key tasks, and your final HTL score is high enough. ( I believe you can get a perfect outcome with only 5 LMs complete.) Also, Tali and Garrus' ME1 missions work just like ME:A loyalty missions; they change nothing. But you knew that already.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 30, 2018 16:46:23 GMT
Well that's sort of the point in the video. Why have loyalty missions if it doesn't affect anything? ME2 has them, and if you don't do them the teammate dies. Even ME1 had a loyalty conflict with Wrex during the Virmire mission, and he can die depending on the outcome. If they weren't going to add conflict, why have loyalty missions at all and gain loyalty from them? I mean ME3 did fine without them. But that's all I will say, a conversation with you will always lead in disagreement so It doesn't matter. Thank you for your point of view. Works for me. Note that the italed is overstated; non-loyal squadmates can survive the SM just fine if you don't use them for the final battle or key tasks, and your final HTL score is high enough. ( I believe you can get a perfect outcome with only 5 LMs complete.) Also, Tali and Garrus' ME1 missions work just like ME:A loyalty missions; they change nothing. But you knew that already. Even if you do complete the loyalty missions. The squad mates may die if you assign them to the wrong tasks.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 30, 2018 17:04:34 GMT
The big difference is without they can die on the right assignment or random moments. I lost the cheer leaders approval on my first run in her conflict with jack. She was with me when fighting the end boss and some debris landed on her and she died.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 30, 2018 17:17:51 GMT
The big difference is without they can die on the right assignment or random moments. I lost the cheer leaders approval on my first run in her conflict with jack. She was with me when fighting the end boss and some debris landed on her and she died. And I lost Garrus on the second phase even though I completed his loyalty mission.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 30, 2018 19:36:05 GMT
The big difference is without they can die on the right assignment or random moments. I lost the cheer leaders approval on my first run in her conflict with jack. She was with me when fighting the end boss and some debris landed on her and she died. And I lost Garrus on the second phase even though I completed his loyalty mission. As I understand it it’s not only the person who didn’t gain the loyalty who can die and the wrong person for job can kill others. I’ve only had not loyal people die. But in some of the off scene hold the line parts if everyone isn’t loyal, the group had a smaller combat rating and someone can die. From what I understand though again never experienced mordin has a really low defense rating so he sometimes gets whacked in a fully loyal group. End of the day loyalty meant something in the story no matter how much it gets nitpicked. These were fun stories but outside the arc one didn’t really matter for the story. I’m not sure I see it as a issue though because open world games usually have a wide range of big quests that have nothing to do with the story and just don’t matter. To this day I’m still not sure why I’m supposed to be upset with Liam for his loyalty mission. Like the guy in the video suggests we should be. As far as I can tell Liam gave some rando angara what we already gave to like dozens of rando angara on aya. I mean yeah some basic hey dude run shit past me first issues. But the actual content of what he did I’m not sure what the big deal was. Hell once we got captured by the archon we should have changed location and security but we didn’t. That’s a much bigger security risk and it’s on us.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 20:35:39 GMT
There's a lot of mental gymnastics happening in this thread in some desperate attempt to make Andromeda appear decent ...
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Post by Pearl on Dec 30, 2018 20:46:15 GMT
Raycevick is great, he gets the blend of opinion and fact just right and always puts in an incredible amount of work.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 30, 2018 20:47:04 GMT
There's a lot of mental gymnastics happening in this thread in some desperate attempt to make Andromeda appear decent ... Oh?
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