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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 22:50:54 GMT
When I watched the OP video and saw the point that Andromeda's combat was better for breaking away from the trilogy's cover shooter roots, what I immediately thought was "man I've heard this opinion a thousand times before" ... You and others here are assuming that I'm only talking about criticisms... I said they parrot each others opinions (both positive and negative) but more negative ones are made because they always get more views than positives one... and the makers of these videos are out to boost their view count... So, they make yet another ME criticism video... used to be ME3 endings over and over and over again... now it's ME:A... when the next ME game comes out... it will all move on to that one. I didn't assume anything. I posted an opinion from the video that I haven't heard before, if you have you're free to show me where. The first 10 minutes was also a glorious recap of the history of the game, more in depth than you can find in any one place. Basically what your opinion tells me is that you really haven't watched the video. And like most people who try and critique things you don't read or watch, your criticisms are wide of the mark.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 22:57:40 GMT
You and others here are assuming that I'm only talking about criticisms... I said they parrot each others opinions (both positive and negative) but more negative ones are made because they always get more views than positives one... and the makers of these videos are out to boost their view count... So, they make yet another ME criticism video... used to be ME3 endings over and over and over again... now it's ME:A... when the next ME game comes out... it will all move on to that one. I didn't assume anything. I posted an opinion from the video that I haven't heard before, if you have you're free to show me where. The first 10 minutes was also a glorious recap of the history of the game, more in depth than you can find in any one place. Basically what your opinion tells me is that you really haven't watched the video. And like most people who try and critique things you don't read or watch, your criticisms are wide of the mark. Heavensarmy did a playthrough a while ago. He enjoyed the game. Cohhcarnage had to repeatedly assure his chat that he was enjoying the game during his playthrough. His conclusion was that it had some issues and wasn't Bioware's best work, but he enjoyed the game overall. I said most of the positive videos were playthroughs, not analyses, so you seriously don't want me to post links to playthroughs. They are out there though. Some people did enjoy playing ME:A. It was not a universally hated game, although the internet tried very hard to make it seem that way.
Also, how many times do I have to say out loud that I refuse to watch analyses anymore, so, duh, I haven't watched this video... nor will I regardless of whether it's positive or negative. I'll go watch another blind playthrough and ascertain the player's natural reaction while playing the game instead. These analyzers have cried "wolf" too many times for me to continue to support their efforts.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:03:01 GMT
Cohhcarnage had to repeatedly assure his chat that he was enjoying the game during his playthrough. It's always reassuring when your enjoyment of a game doesn't come through in tone, or expression, and you have to repeatedly tell your audience you're enjoying the game because you're not showing your enjoyment at all. Like when a friend brings over a movie they think you'll enjoy and wants to watch it together, and you have to reassure that friend that even though your eyes are closed and you're snoring, you're thoroughly enjoying the experience. The internet didn't work hard to make it seem universally hated. A large bunch of people didn't like the game, people can interpret that how they will.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 30, 2018 23:17:31 GMT
river82 to answer your question: I think the loyalty missions should've had some repercussions, especially Liam and Peebee ones. Yes, that was an actual flaw. So why are you liking AlanC9's comments which sought to minimise those flaws? A game is allowed to have flaws, it's not a good thing to brush those under the carpet and say "loyalty is not an ME thing anyway". It's a problem. Every time someone's critical of Bioware games on here, you have this brigade of defenders *rolls eyes*. A lot less now though considering some left in a tantrum after a certain journalist was proved right, but still ... Hey, wait a second. I was not minimizing the flaws. I was just saying that ME:A is not very different from the rest of the series. If ME:A is flawed in this aspect, then ME1 is almost as flawed, and ME3 only avoids the flaws by not having that feature at all. This is something that ME never did very well. It's sort of like the plot debates. Saying that ME3's plot is no more stupid or incoherent than ME1's is not the same thing as saying that ME3's plot was sensible and coherent.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:21:32 GMT
Yes, that was an actual flaw. So why are you liking AlanC9's comments which sought to minimise those flaws? A game is allowed to have flaws, it's not a good thing to brush those under the carpet and say "loyalty is not an ME thing anyway". It's a problem. Every time someone's critical of Bioware games on here, you have this brigade of defenders *rolls eyes*. A lot less now though considering some left in a tantrum after a certain journalist was proved right, but still ... Hey, wait a second. I was not minimizing the flaws. I was saying that ME:A is not very different from the rest of the series. If ME:A is flawed in this aspect, then ME1 is almost as flawed, and ME3 only avoids the flaws by not having that feature at all. It's flawed in that it makes it less of an RPG, with an RPG being a user defined story, or a story that shifts depending on user input. And ME3 was heavily criticised for not taking into account user input for the ending, in one way or another. I say 'criticised' but what I really mean was there was a moderate size shit storm ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 23:23:25 GMT
Cohhcarnage had to repeatedly assure his chat that he was enjoying the game during his playthrough. It's always reassuring when your enjoyment of a game doesn't come through in tone, or expression, and you have to repeatedly tell your audience you're enjoying the game because you're not showing your enjoyment at all. Like when a friend brings over a movie they think you'll enjoy and wants to watch it together, and you have to reassure that friend that even though your eyes are closed and you're snoring, you're thoroughly enjoying the experience. The internet didn't work hard to make it seem universally hated. A large bunch of people didn't like the game, people can interpret that how they will. Did you watch Heavensarmy's playthrough? How do you know whether his statements about liking the game during his playthrough were sincere or not. I watched his playthrough, and my first-hand assessment of his reaction is that he sincerely he enjoyed playing ME:A. You're free to go watch the playthrough and form your own opinion of it if you want to. It won't change mine because I formed my opinion first-hand by watching the playthrough. Same goes for Cohh's playthrough. I'm also expressing my opinion about the so-called pundits who have made careers out of over-analyzing ME games. You're free to have a different opinion; but I'm also free to express mine. I've watched many, but I won't watch any more of them, period.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:25:48 GMT
I've watched many, but I won't watch any more of them, period. Which is why your criticism of them will never be valid
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 30, 2018 23:27:22 GMT
I was specifically discussing the loyalty mission issue. In general, I stay away from the "more of an RPG" debate.
But if we want to do that, ME3's endings can be said to not be very different for different players, but then neither were ME1's or ME2's.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:30:37 GMT
I was specifically discussing the loyalty mission issue. In general, I stay away from the "more of an RPG" debate. But if we want to do that, ME3's endings can be said to not be very different for different players, but then neither were ME1's or ME2's. ME1 you could kill or save the council, ME2 squadmates died, KOTOR you could choose the dark or light side. These aren't very diverse options, hardware limitations and manpower limitations being what they are, but that's why even a small choice at the end provides the illusion of control that satisfies a lot of gamers.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 30, 2018 23:34:53 GMT
He's quite late to the "beating a dead horse" party, and by extra 9 months considering the video is "1 year later" but the game released March 2017. (did it took him 9 months to make like a baby?) He only repeats all that we already knew about the troubled development of MEA.
There should be an Easter Egg mission in ME5/"Next" where we find a literal dead alien horse and we are tasked with finding who beat it to death, til we eventually reach the cosmic being of horse beaters, he who beats mounts through time and space, caught in an endless war with the unicorn gods.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 23:38:10 GMT
I've watched many, but I won't watch any more of them, period. Which is why your criticism of them will never be valid I can criticize the fact that they make loads and loads and loads of them and continue to make them even years later when they serve no real purpose except to get them views. I don't need to analyze the videos in depth to make that criticism of their behavior. When they stop and move on to something more productive - in depth and accurate analyses of each new game after they've completely played it (instead of after playing only a couple of hours of it) and they stop making factual errors about games in those videos (largely because they jump to make the videos before they truly understand the game's mechanics), then maybe, just maybe I'll change my opinion of them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 23:39:59 GMT
I was specifically discussing the loyalty mission issue. In general, I stay away from the "more of an RPG" debate. But if we want to do that, ME3's endings can be said to not be very different for different players, but then neither were ME1's or ME2's. ME1 you could kill or save the council, ME2 squadmates died, KOTOR you could choose the dark or light side. These aren't very diverse options, hardware limitations and manpower limitations being what they are, but that's why even a small choice at the end provides the illusion of control that satisfies a lot of gamers. In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences?
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:41:58 GMT
Which is why your criticism of them will never be valid I can criticize the fact that they make loads and loads and loads of them and continue to make them even years later when they serve no real purpose except to get them views. I don't need to analyze the videos in depth to make that criticism of their behavior. When they stop and move on to something more productive - in depth and accurate analyses of each new game after they've completely played it (instead of after playing only a couple of hours of it) and they stop making factual errors about games in those videos (largely because they jump to make the videos before they truly understand the game's mechanics), then maybe, just maybe I'll change my opinion of them. He hasn't made loads and loads and loads of them, in fact this person has just made the one. Because like you have an opinion you feel the need to share on forums (despite never looking at the source) he has an opinion about a game he played he felt the need to share with people. So your criticism of their behaviour is invalid. The point you tried to make about him not playing the full game is an assumption you've made without watching the video. "Productiveness" is subjective. While you think he isn't, he thinks he is. I'm fairly certain he doesn't care what your opinion of him is.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:44:10 GMT
ME1 you could kill or save the council, ME2 squadmates died, KOTOR you could choose the dark or light side. These aren't very diverse options, hardware limitations and manpower limitations being what they are, but that's why even a small choice at the end provides the illusion of control that satisfies a lot of gamers. In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences? ... one of the missions had a consequence? Hurray, my quest for satisfying choice and consequence has now been sated.
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Post by river82 on Dec 30, 2018 23:45:55 GMT
ME1 you could kill or save the council, ME2 squadmates died, KOTOR you could choose the dark or light side. These aren't very diverse options, hardware limitations and manpower limitations being what they are, but that's why even a small choice at the end provides the illusion of control that satisfies a lot of gamers. In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences? By the way, I believe you're wrong here. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 23:53:40 GMT
In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences? ... one of the missions had a consequence? Hurray, my quest for satisfying choice and consequence has now been sated. You continually berate others for now acknowledging flaws, but when it comes to any admission on your part that your opinionated statements are not absolutes (e.g. that some people did like the game) you blow this sort of hissy fit. Peebee's LM had a life or death decision - that of Kalinda. Fans requested on the old BSN expressly that Bioware not kill of squad mates as they first did in ME3 and Bioware assured the fans that no squad mates would die in ME:A... and they were as good as their word. Wrex's death in ME1 was essentially of no consequence. It wasn't until ME3 that it becaume somewhat important. Most of the squad deaths in ME2 were on no consequence in ME3. We don't yet know if Kalinda's death in ME:A would result in a real consequence in subsequent games. Similarly, not doing Liam's loyalty mission results in his Angaran contact dying. We don't yet know if that choice has a real consequence.
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Post by river82 on Dec 31, 2018 0:02:23 GMT
... one of the missions had a consequence? Hurray, my quest for satisfying choice and consequence has now been sated. You continually berate others for now acknowledging flaws, but when it comes to any admission on your part that your opinionated statements are not absolutes (e.g. that some people did like the game) you blow this sort of hissy fit. Peebee's LM had a life or death decision - that of Kalinda. Fans requested on the old BSN expressly that Bioware not kill of squad mates as they first did in ME3 and Bioware assured the fans that no squad mates would die in ME:A... and they were as good as their word. Wrex's death in ME1 was essentially of no consequence. It wasn't until ME3 that it becaume somewhat important. Most of the squad deaths in ME2 were on no consequence in ME3. We don't yet know if Kalinda's death in ME:A would result in a real consequence in subsequent games. Similarly, not doing Liam's loyalty mission results in his Angaran contact dying. We don't yet know if that choice has a real consequence.
I have repeatedly acknowledged the combat in the game is excellent. The choice and consequence mechanics, which includes the game only having one ending, and no party members (I believe) can leave are a part of, are wanting. Whether Drack can leave (which I don't believe he can) doesn't change that. Kalinda is a minor character that has a minimal impact on the story (the story being the plot and the characters, so the impact on a minor character with 2 seconds of game time has minimal impact on the story or the game). Kalinda's choice may be important later on, but right now it's not. Therefore on all the material available to us we can say the choice was not important. We can then change that down the line if it changes. The Angaran contact is similarly minor and has a minimal impact on the story. I won't be changing my opinion of that now because of some possible decision that could be made in a game that may or may not be made. This right here is an example of the mental gymnastics people go through to try and minimise flaws. Whether Bioware listened to some fans when the decision was being made makes no difference in whether I like the decision being made. I honestly couldn't care less they were catering to another part of the fanbase, it makes the game less enjoyable for me and so I'll say "this makes the game less enjoyable for me". Your definition of hissy fit is wanting.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 31, 2018 0:10:36 GMT
In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences? Drack leaves? Is there a video you can post showing that?
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Post by river82 on Dec 31, 2018 0:12:11 GMT
In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences? Drack leaves? Is there a video you can post showing that? I've never experienced Drack leaving. I have a feeling he's telling an untruth, but I have no desire to do any research to confirm it.
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Post by Ameridan on Dec 31, 2018 0:29:35 GMT
Siding with the krogan scouts on the ship gets you the scene at the end of the game of the krogan children.this is pretty much the only semi important Drack decision that has any after effect.
As for the video it’s and in-depth analysis of the game the guy who made it calls it for its bs but also praise is it for its better aspects.
The game is not perfect and in my mind has always been more Appealing To the hard core fan then the new, the game it’s self tells a story of hope, wonder, and adventure well laying down a solid foundation for the series to continue away from red, green, and blue. I hope BioWare see the wisdom In continuing the Andromeda storyline.
side note Raycevick has recently tweeted that it’s his most viewed video.
Side question: if everyone here had to do one more play though of Andromeda or Dragon age 2 witch would you choose?
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Post by themikefest on Dec 31, 2018 0:43:24 GMT
I would play DA2. I like the game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 1:31:07 GMT
In ME:A, not doing Drack's loyalty mission combined with not saving his scouts and not giving Morda the drive core could result in Drack leaving your team. So, one of the LM's did have a consequence... how about acknowledging that instead of implying that none of them had consequences? Drack leaves? Is there a video you can post showing that? He won't talk to you at the end and I read in the Wiki early on that he could leave if those decisions were made, so I think, in that case, it's unlikely he stays on as a squad mate for a sequel. The thing is, we don't know yet what sort of consequences Bioware might have had in store to connect ME:A to whatever sequels they had planned for the series. As I said, the shooting of Wrex or even the non-recruitment of Wrex and even Garrus had no obvious consequences in ME1 itself. It wasn't until the third game that there was a consequence for Wrex living or dying. There was never any real consequence to the Ashley/Kaidan decision beyond which one you got on your squad in ME3. It wasn't like there was any difference in the politics or the outcome of the war regardless of which one you chose . The crew reaction wasn't even any different even if the one who died was Shepard's LI. You yourself have also said, many times, that the squad mates you let die in ME2 are merely replaced in ME3 by substitutes. None of those choices make any pivotal difference to the story.
Why should we expect anything different in ME:A1? Answer: We shouldn't. ME:A is the beginning of the story. It's still possible for the presence or absence of more minor characters, like Kalinda and Verand, to have an impact on where the story heads in a sequel. We just don't know yet (and if they short-circuit Andromeda and never do a sequel, we'll never know). Bioware clearly stated well in advance of the release of ME:A that they would not be killing off or allowing any of our squad to die. It's what the fans requested and what they got. The reaction to ME:A might cause Bioware to rethink that and we may again be allowing squad to die in the next ME game.
However, one cannot say there are no consequences to ME:A's loyalty missions. In Peebee's, you clearly decide whether or not Kalinda lives or dies and whether or not the team acquires the Remnant device. In Drack's, you clearly decide whether Aroane lives or dies. In Liam's and Vetra's, you are clearly saving people who probably die if you don't do the mission.
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Post by river82 on Dec 31, 2018 2:23:38 GMT
However, one cannot say there are no consequences to ME:A's loyalty missions. In Peebee's, you clearly decide whether or not Kalinda lives or dies and whether or not the team acquires the Remnant device. In Drack's, you clearly decide whether Aroane lives or dies. In Liam's and Vetra's, you are clearly saving people who probably die if you don't do the mission.
The effects of these consequences are outside the scope of the main story, and so the consequences border on meaningless as it pertains right now with the information we have. The idea of choice and consequence is for the consequences of your choices to affect the story or the game. The story, once again, is the plot and the characters. You're talking about consequences for characters that are insignificant, and so the choice and consequences of Andromeda is also insignificant. Your squadmates dying affects the story being told because you are deprived of a character that can have a major imprint on the story (not plot) and gameplay. The council dying at the end of ME1 had plot ramifications. Choices which affect the lives of NPC#30053 are inconsequential, and not what I look for with choice and consequences. Andromeda is trash with that mechanic.
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Post by Arcian on Dec 31, 2018 3:32:35 GMT
They do. Everyone accepts that you like a bad game. It's you who can't accept that other people doesn't like the game you like because it's bad. But I and people on this forum dont think that it’s a bad game. No, you like the game in spite of its poor quality - it's not good because you like it. Quality is not subjective.
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Post by natetrace on Dec 31, 2018 4:07:58 GMT
However, one cannot say there are no consequences to ME:A's loyalty missions. In Peebee's, you clearly decide whether or not Kalinda lives or dies and whether or not the team acquires the Remnant device. In Drack's, you clearly decide whether Aroane lives or dies. In Liam's and Vetra's, you are clearly saving people who probably die if you don't do the mission.
The effects of these consequences are outside the scope of the main story, and so the consequences border on meaningless as it pertains right now with the information we have. The idea of choice and consequence is for the consequences of your choices to affect the story or the game. The story, once again, is the plot and the characters. You're talking about consequences for characters that are insignificant, and so the choice and consequences of Andromeda is also insignificant. Your squadmates dying affects the story being told because you are deprived of a character that can have a major imprint on the story (not plot) and gameplay. The council dying at the end of ME1 had plot ramifications. Choices which affect the lives of NPC#30053 are inconsequential, and not what I look for with choice and consequences. Andromeda is trash with that mechanic. Trash. Everything is trash nowadays. I see that word used to describe things often. This is trash. That is trash. Also the council dying did not have a large impact. A few lines here and there, an all human council they didn't even bother to create, and in 3 a ship that looks just like the acension can be seen flying to earth, even if destroyed in 1. Maybe they had a backup. BioWare always said the loyalty missions were optional and would have no impact on the main story. Come on, if they did have a major impact people would say they were recycling the ME2 formula... and they'd probably call it trash.
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