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Post by smilesja on Jan 3, 2019 17:44:20 GMT
Depends on how you play Hawke. Play Hawke as a smart ass and Hawke NEVER takes anything seriously. Ryder even as a smart-ass does know when to be serious,
/well yeah if you choose to be a smart ass all the time you are, I think the issue is even when trying to be serious Ryder isn't that serious outside a couple moments. Ryder is a very narrow range all leaning to not very serious with a couple serious scenes, Hawke displayed a wider range though you could pretty much exclusively pick sarcastic if you wanted. That being said, I'm on like my 10th play through of MEA right now, I've done 2 of DA2 and I'm not that upset it seems bugged on my setup so I wont be doing a game 3. Huh? Ryder was serious when needed to be and if you chose the right dialogue choices.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 18:39:26 GMT
Depends on how you play Hawke. Play Hawke as a smart ass and Hawke NEVER takes anything seriously. Ryder even as a smart-ass does know when to be serious,
/well yeah if you choose to be a smart ass all the time you are, I think the issue is even when trying to be serious Ryder isn't that serious outside a couple moments. Ryder is a very narrow range all leaning to not very serious with a couple serious scenes, Hawke displayed a wider range though you could pretty much exclusively pick sarcastic if you wanted. That being said, I'm on like my 10th play through of MEA right now, I've done 2 of DA2 and I'm not that upset it seems bugged on my setup so I wont be doing a game 3. Since 10k's statement clearly implied that everything in ME:A was "portrayed as a big joke." This response is an admission that 10k's statement is exaggerated to the point of being false. It's a simple fact that there are moments in Andromeda where things are not portrayed as a big joke and moments where it is at least possible to select serious dialogue options for Ryder. Ryder does have a narrower range than Shepard; but, as I indicated before, one rather common complaint about the extreme P/R range that Shepard had was that he/she could, at times, seem to be somewhat schizophrenic. That means, there was a lack of "middle-ground"options for Shepard.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 3, 2019 23:34:37 GMT
Ryder was serious? Hmm. Little duck wasn't when the peepee asari knocks the duck to the ground. Apparently that's ok. It's even ok to use the escape pod to put the ship and crew, Ryder and the other squadmate in danger with the worst thing said is mad is the smallest word for what I am. Even better, the asari has to buy a new pod. That's it. Nothing serious about that crap.
It gets even better. Apparently its ok that someone went on the tempest and took the robot. Gotta love that security. After recovering the robot, no one thought it would be a good idea to scan the thing for any tracers. Nothing serious there. It's more like the 'I don't care' attitude from Ryder.
Then with the 'I'm not really a cop' Kosta, the worse that happens is a few words in a firm tone. Gotta love that seriousness about Ryder.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 3, 2019 23:46:07 GMT
Udina, a lowly ambassador even proposing to seize power is ridiculous and an outstanding soldier like Anderson going along with it is even more ridiculous, I would likely have proposed the same thing, if I was in his place. It would be 'in the heat of the moment' thing. I never expected the other species would be ok with an all-human council. Then again, humanity is the best species. What is ridiculous is Anderson being an option for councilor. What a joke. He knows nothing about politics. What if the player had to choose between Anderson and Udina to be the next Company Commander or Battalion Commander? Would anybody choose Udina? I agree. It's something I've posted in the past on this forum and the old BSN. As it stands, I let the destiny go boom. I don't care about the council. The game gives me no reason to save the council. I put the blame on the Commander of the destiny. Once the council is onboard, it's her responsibility to get them to safety. She failed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 1:13:04 GMT
Ryder was serious? Hmm. Little duck wasn't when the peepee asari knocks the duck to the ground. Apparently that's ok. It's even ok to use the escape pod to put the ship and crew, Ryder and the other squadmate in danger with the worst thing said is mad is the smallest word for what I am. Even better, the asari has to buy a new pod. That's it. Nothing serious about that crap. It gets even better. Apparently its ok that someone went on the tempest and took the robot. Gotta love that security. After recovering the robot, no one thought it would be a good idea to scan the thing for any tracers. Nothing serious there. It's more like the 'I don't care' attitude from Ryder. Then with the 'I'm not really a cop' Kosta, the worse that happens is a few words in a firm tone. Gotta love that seriousness about Ryder. How is pushing her off and saying "Time to get off" not being serious? After that, she makes a joke, but you have the option to simply move to querying about her research. Ryder does not have to make any joking comment in return. She already has two guns on her, so it's not necessary for Ryder to do anything more than push her off.
There are moments when Ryder can be very serious. The discussion with Drack in "How to Act Tough" can involve only serious dialogue. Note - serious does not mean lacking compassion or being a violent a-hole.
You keep going back to how Ryder deals with Peebee and Liam, but that's not proof that Ryder treats "everything as a joke." There are several points in the game where Ryder is definitely not joking about and one of those is example enough to make 10k's absolute assertion false.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 1:28:19 GMT
How is pushing her off and saying "Time to get off" not being serious? Why does it take about 15-20 seconds for an interrupt to pop up? Why isn't there an option to get in the asari's face and ask her if she would like to be knocked done? All Ryder does is turn the other cheek.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 1:45:06 GMT
How is pushing her off and saying "Time to get off" not being serious? Why does it take about 15-20 seconds for an interrupt to pop up? Why isn't there an option to get in the asari's face and ask her if she would like to be knocked done? All Ryder does is turn the other cheek. It doesn't matter that the timing of the interrupt is a little slower than you would like. It exists and is a serious option. There is dialogue going on with the squad mates who are holding a gun on Peebee. Do you think getting in her face and asking her if she'd like to be knocked down is any more "serious" than just pushing her off? I don't. I think that would sound more like the reaction of a whiny school kid, IMHO.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 1:56:45 GMT
I think that would sound more like the reaction of a whiny school kid, IMHO. So if someone knocked you to the ground, you would wait x amount of time before pushing them off you and that would be it?
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Post by ahglock on Jan 4, 2019 3:56:38 GMT
/well yeah if you choose to be a smart ass all the time you are, I think the issue is even when trying to be serious Ryder isn't that serious outside a couple moments. Ryder is a very narrow range all leaning to not very serious with a couple serious scenes, Hawke displayed a wider range though you could pretty much exclusively pick sarcastic if you wanted. That being said, I'm on like my 10th play through of MEA right now, I've done 2 of DA2 and I'm not that upset it seems bugged on my setup so I wont be doing a game 3. Since 10k's statement clearly implied that everything in ME:A was "portrayed as a big joke." This response is an admission that 10k's statement is exaggerated to the point of being false. It's a simple fact that there are moments in Andromeda where things are not portrayed as a big joke and moments where it is at least possible to select serious dialogue options for Ryder. Ryder does have a narrower range than Shepard; but, as I indicated before, one rather common complaint about the extreme P/R range that Shepard had was that he/she could, at times, seem to be somewhat schizophrenic. That means, there was a lack of "middle-ground"options for Shepard. Under that guideline many comments on this forum including yours are false. Are there points that are portrayed as serious, sure its a 60 hour game it would be hard to not have some in there. But many that should be aren't, and the character just isn't overall no mater which of the dialogue options available are used. That was apparently the intent of the character and game so I'm not sure why its being argued. They intentionally shot for a more lighthearted character and crew. I'm leaning heavily into professional and logical this run and the tone and actual comments are not a pure joke but they are fairly lighthearted. Does that make the entire game a big joke, well no but its a pretty narrow range of lighthearted logical, professional, to jokey/emotional and that's assuming you get 4 choices instead of the fairly frequent 2. Ryder is a much more set character in personality that most other bioware games. That's not a knock, there are good reasons why you might want to do that and it a pretty normal style for games including RPGs.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 4, 2019 3:57:29 GMT
/well yeah if you choose to be a smart ass all the time you are, I think the issue is even when trying to be serious Ryder isn't that serious outside a couple moments. Ryder is a very narrow range all leaning to not very serious with a couple serious scenes, Hawke displayed a wider range though you could pretty much exclusively pick sarcastic if you wanted. That being said, I'm on like my 10th play through of MEA right now, I've done 2 of DA2 and I'm not that upset it seems bugged on my setup so I wont be doing a game 3. Huh? Ryder was serious when needed to be and if you chose the right dialogue choices. He didn't need to be very often then I guess.
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 4, 2019 9:17:24 GMT
Siding with the krogan scouts on the ship gets you the scene at the end of the game of the krogan children.this is pretty much the only semi important Drack decision that has any after effect. As for the video it’s and in-depth analysis of the game the guy who made it calls it for its bs but also praise is it for its better aspects. The game is not perfect and in my mind has always been more Appealing To the hard core fan then the new, the game it’s self tells a story of hope, wonder, and adventure well laying down a solid foundation for the series to continue away from red, green, and blue. I hope BioWare see the wisdom In continuing the Andromeda storyline. side note Raycevick has recently tweeted that it’s his most viewed video. Side question: if everyone here had to do one more play though of Andromeda or Dragon age 2 witch would you choose? Clearly da2, it’s got great companions & a good range of characterization options for hawke.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 12:43:29 GMT
I think that would sound more like the reaction of a whiny school kid, IMHO. So if someone knocked you to the ground, you would wait x amount of time before pushing them off you and that would be it? Actually, it would probably take a little bit of time for me to recover enough from the shock of it in order to react by pushing them off. I'd also not be too inclined to move into a possible line of fire when my two squad mates have weapons trained on Peebee. Staying still enables them to get a clean shot if they perceive the threat high enough to take one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 12:53:45 GMT
Since 10k's statement clearly implied that everything in ME:A was "portrayed as a big joke." This response is an admission that 10k's statement is exaggerated to the point of being false. It's a simple fact that there are moments in Andromeda where things are not portrayed as a big joke and moments where it is at least possible to select serious dialogue options for Ryder. Ryder does have a narrower range than Shepard; but, as I indicated before, one rather common complaint about the extreme P/R range that Shepard had was that he/she could, at times, seem to be somewhat schizophrenic. That means, there was a lack of "middle-ground"options for Shepard. Under that guideline many comments on this forum including yours are false. Are there points that are portrayed as serious, sure its a 60 hour game it would be hard to not have some in there. But many that should be aren't, and the character just isn't overall no mater which of the dialogue options available are used. That was apparently the intent of the character and game so I'm not sure why its being argued. They intentionally shot for a more lighthearted character and crew. I'm leaning heavily into professional and logical this run and the tone and actual comments are not a pure joke but they are fairly lighthearted. Does that make the entire game a big joke, well no but its a pretty narrow range of lighthearted logical, professional, to jokey/emotional and that's assuming you get 4 choices instead of the fairly frequent 2. Ryder is a much more set character in personality that most other bioware games. That's not a knock, there are good reasons why you might want to do that and it a pretty normal style for games including RPGs.
I've acknowledged more than once that Ryder's character range is not a broad as Shepard's, so where exactly is the falsehood in my statement. I'm not making absolute statements here. I'm not saying even that he/she is serious more often than he/she is lighthearted. I'm simply pointing out that it's not an absolute. Others here too are saying essentially the same thing... the player does have some options to make their character more serious and less joking, if they choose to select those dialogue options. There are also times when the auto-dialogue is serious and not joking. I agree... Bioware intended this game to take a more lighthearted approach. As I recall, several fans requested a more lighthearted game and indicated that they did not want a game as sombre and heavy as ME3. In my mind, it's another example of Bioware trying to respond (and pacify) their fan base by implementing the notions of that fanbase... who haven't fully thought through the ideas they're requesting be implemented. I also recall players asking specifically to be given more opportunities to be sarcastic like they had with Hawke specifically. Sarcasm is a form of humor, so Bioware responded with adding joking options into Ryder's dialogue... then the fans find out that's not what they actually wanted.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 13:05:45 GMT
So if someone knocked you to the ground, you would wait x amount of time before pushing them off you and that would be it? Actually, it would probably take a little bit of time for me to recover enough from the shock of it in order to react by pushing them off. I'd also not be too inclined to move into a possible line of fire when my two squad mates have weapons trained on Peebee. Staying still enables them to get a clean shot if they perceive the threat high enough to take one. And during that time you're recovering, your squadmates are doing a whole lot of nothing. At the very least, wouldn't you believe they would make an attempt to remove her from being on top of you?
If it was me, I would have stepped to the right, after hearing her run, avoiding her. I would walk over to her and start laughing at her wearing the Barney belly button armor and having black paint smeared across her eyes. If by chance she were to knock me to the ground, I would use her momentum against her. As I'm falling, I would grab her outfit, and use it to fling her over me sending her away from me. I would get up, run to her, slam my knee into her sternum asking her what the **** is her problem. If that doesn't happen, while she's on top of me, I would notice her gut and neck are exposed. Since I wouldn't get much of a hit in her gut, I would grab her collar, pull her towards me as my right hand smacks her in the throat. Depending on how hard I hit her, she might be in a world of hurt. If that doesn't happen, I would throw her off me. When she makes that comment, that would fuel my anger since I'm not in a good mood after my father recently died, I would get up, then slam her to the ground, and start pounding her face in. The most likely thing that would happen is I would step to the side to avoid her from knocking me down.
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Post by river82 on Jan 4, 2019 13:20:32 GMT
So if someone knocked you to the ground, you would wait x amount of time before pushing them off you and that would be it? Actually, it would probably take a little bit of time for me to recover enough from the shock of it in order to react by pushing them off. I'd also not be too inclined to move into a possible line of fire when my two squad mates have weapons trained on Peebee. Staying still enables them to get a clean shot if they perceive the threat high enough to take one. The pause was for storytelling purposes, like how soap operas tend to have a lot of pauses. Except in this instance it was probably supposed to add humour. It was never meant to be realistic. I found it cheesy though. Others may like it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 13:42:34 GMT
Actually, it would probably take a little bit of time for me to recover enough from the shock of it in order to react by pushing them off. I'd also not be too inclined to move into a possible line of fire when my two squad mates have weapons trained on Peebee. Staying still enables them to get a clean shot if they perceive the threat high enough to take one. The pause was for storytelling purposes, like how soap operas tend to have a lot of pauses. Except in this instance it was probably supposed to add humour. It was never meant to be realistic. I found it cheesy though. Others may like it. I agree. The pause was for storytelling purposes. Time to allow for variations in the amount of dialogue the different squad mates might have during that scene. There could also even be a bit a lag and perpetually occurs in that scene (a bit of a programming bug).
I'm not rendering an opinion as to whether or not I personally like the scene or whether or not my Ryder would inherently act differently (as themikefest is declaring). I still don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a person knocked over in such a way might be winded and take a moment to regain their bearings. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Ryder might basically see no reason to react since the squad obviously have guns trained on the perpetrator. I also don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a Ryder who could be smitten by Peebee might choose to just let her sit there. I've seen lots cheesier scenes and pickup situations in games. I don't think it's worth making a big deal over it time and time again.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 13:58:39 GMT
The problem with the asari knocking Ryder to the ground is that it didn't make sense. The first time I got to the artifact, I walked to the console. The sam thing said to scan for glyphs. Why didn't the asari show up at that time? She clearly was watching what Ryder was doing. I walked around. Saw a shuttle. Where was the person(s) who put it there? Did Bioware put that scene in the game because they thought it would be cool?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 14:26:09 GMT
The problem with the asari knocking Ryder to the ground is that it didn't make sense. The first time I got to the artifact, I walked to the console. The sam thing said to scan for glyphs. Why didn't the asari show up at that time? She clearly was watching what Ryder was doing. I walked around. Saw a shuttle. Where was the person(s) who put it there? Did Bioware put that scene in the game because they thought it would be cool? Oh come on now. They wrote the entire game because they thought it would be cool to do so. Pretty much every dev starts developing a game because they think they have a cool idea for a game. This isn't something unique to Bioware and really, Bioware should not be more heavily criticized for it than any other dev. Your whole scenario of what your Ryder would do is based on what you think would be cooler instead of how Bioware set up the scene. It's subjective.
I really don't understand why it's such a big deal to you. Not every player goes to the console first. I've seen several playthroughs where players avoid going to the console and loot/scan the area first (because they suspect that going to the console is what advances the mains story) so some may not even get the specific instructions from SAM to scan for glyphs. Perhaps Peebee, up to the point Ryder's second attempt, is not actually watching Ryder but is thoughtfully engaged in her research inside her shuttle. Perhaps Ryder scanning the glyphs causes a blip in her readings that causes her only then to leave the shuttle to investigate;, and so she only sees Ryder when he/she is about to make the final attempt to activate the console. That's not a big reach, IMO.
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Post by 10k on Jan 4, 2019 14:41:31 GMT
The problem with the asari knocking Ryder to the ground is that it didn't make sense. The first time I got to the artifact, I walked to the console. The sam thing said to scan for glyphs. Why didn't the asari show up at that time? She clearly was watching what Ryder was doing. I walked around. Saw a shuttle. Where was the person(s) who put it there? Did Bioware put that scene in the game because they thought it would be cool? They wrote a lot of scenes as though they thought it would just be cool. Liam and Ryder taking turns turning off the console when the bad guy is trying to speak, Ryder telling liam to "hold him" as they're being sucked out of the ship, Peebee launching the crew into a volcano with no shits given, Ryder's father not sharing the helmet with his son and just dying; all scenes that were done just because BW thought they would be funny or cool. Let's not even talk about the cringey dialogue that sound like ME fan fic sometimes.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 14:47:05 GMT
The problem with the asari knocking Ryder to the ground is that it didn't make sense. The first time I got to the artifact, I walked to the console. The sam thing said to scan for glyphs. Why didn't the asari show up at that time? She clearly was watching what Ryder was doing. I walked around. Saw a shuttle. Where was the person(s) who put it there? Did Bioware put that scene in the game because they thought it would be cool? Oh come on now. They wrote the entire game because they thought it would be cool to do so. Pretty much every dev starts developing a game because they think they have a cool idea for a game.
I really don't understand why it's such a big deal to you. Not every player goes to the console first. I've seen several playthroughs where players avoid going to the console and loot/scan the area first (because they suspect that going to the console is what advances the mains story) so some may not even get the specific instructions from SAM to scan for glyphs. Perhaps Peebee, up to the point Ryder's second attempt, is not actually watching Ryder but is thoughtfully engaged in her research inside her shuttle and only comes out to investigate just before Ryder makes the final attempt to activate the console. That's not a big reach, IMO. Is that the same excuse you use for the escape pod crap?
I get you're head-over-heels for the game, but I find a lot of the stuff in the game to be bad. That scene happens to be one of them
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 15:28:50 GMT
Oh come on now. They wrote the entire game because they thought it would be cool to do so. Pretty much every dev starts developing a game because they think they have a cool idea for a game.
I really don't understand why it's such a big deal to you. Not every player goes to the console first. I've seen several playthroughs where players avoid going to the console and loot/scan the area first (because they suspect that going to the console is what advances the mains story) so some may not even get the specific instructions from SAM to scan for glyphs. Perhaps Peebee, up to the point Ryder's second attempt, is not actually watching Ryder but is thoughtfully engaged in her research inside her shuttle and only comes out to investigate just before Ryder makes the final attempt to activate the console. That's not a big reach, IMO. Is that the same excuse you use for the escape pod crap?
I get you're head-over-heels for the game, but I find a lot of the stuff in the game to be bad. That scene happens to be one of them Are you saying that when you say "my Ryder would do it X way" that you're thinking that would be less cool than what's in the game? Of course not, you're thinking it would be more cool if they did it your way. I'm just saying their motivation for writing the game in the first place is because they believe they had a cool idea for a game. Whether or not you or I agree with them is completely subjective. If something is "objectively bad" then please show me the objective tests it failed to meet... because that IS the requirement for the quality of something being objectively determined to be "bad." Since no such tests exist in the gaming industry, it IS all a matter of subjective opinion. Whether or not I personally like the game is irrelevant to my making that statement. You're of the subjective opinion that the scene is bad. I accept that. What I don't get is why that is SUCH a big deal for you. Part of why it doesn't make sense is because you deliberately avoid making any sort of sense out of it. The scenarios I've suggested in order to make sense out of it are all not huge reaches of reality. You reject every one because you don't like them. I'm OK with that. I don't have to hate the scene like you do to accept the fact that you hate it. It still doesn't make it "objectively" bad. Your opinion carries no more weight than mine.
In one aspect, it can be objectively said that Andromeda was not proofread very well since several spelling errors and typos can be shown to exist in the game. Whether or not something is spelled correctly is something that can be judged objectively since there is a solid standard to test it against (i.e. the dicitionary). There is no test for a universally acceptalbe standard for, say, cheesiness in fiction scenes or even in the style of facial animations. There is no standard as to how large a range of PC personalities has to be present for a game to qualify as an RPG. All of it, thereofre, is subjective opinion.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 15:42:16 GMT
If you think the scene is cool, good for you. I don't care for it since it shows Ryder not having the ability to stand up for themselves. Maybe that's what Bioware wanted. I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 16:00:45 GMT
If you think the scene is cool, good for you. I don't care for it since it shows Ryder not having the ability to stand up for themselves. Maybe that's what Bioware wanted. I don't know. ... and you think it would be cooler if Ryder was the sort of character who did stand up for themselves in the particular way you're wanting him/her to. There is no "rule" against writing a game around a character who doesn't stand up for themselves. No industry standard that says game PC's can only be of the variety who stand up for themselves.
I didn't like The Witcher 3. I don't like Geralt as a character. I don't like his personality at all. I don't like the combat (partly because I generally prefer gun play over sword play in games). None of that makes The Witcher 3 an objectively bad game. It's a game I simply don't like with many scenes I find corny and that have ridiculous dialogue choices, etc., etc., etc. Were I writing Geralt as a character, he would be completely different. In my eyes, my Geralt would be much cooler than CDPR's Geralt. For one thing, he wouldn't be such a pushover when it comes to Yennifer. Why didn't he draw a sword on her for putting a clawed creature in his bathtub?. Why does he meekly go off to school Ciri? etc. etc. You get the idea.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2019 16:07:19 GMT
and you think it would be cooler if Ryder was the sort of character who did stand up for themselves in the particular way you're wanting him/her to. There is no "rule" against writing a game around a character who doesn't stand up for themselves. No industry standard that says game PC's can only be of the variety who stand up for themselves. I would like for Ryder to get in the face of the asari and ask if she would like to be knocked to the ground. If the option for Ryder to punch or shoot the asari, great, but getting in her face to let her know Ryder doesn't put up with that crap would be enough. It may also have the asari think twice before she does any stupid crap. What does this have to do with ME?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 17:05:42 GMT
and you think it would be cooler if Ryder was the sort of character who did stand up for themselves in the particular way you're wanting him/her to. There is no "rule" against writing a game around a character who doesn't stand up for themselves. No industry standard that says game PC's can only be of the variety who stand up for themselves. I would like for Ryder to get in the face of the asari and ask if she would like to be knocked to the ground. If the option for Ryder to punch or shoot the asari, great, but getting in her face to let her know Ryder doesn't put up with that crap would be enough. It may also have the asari think twice before she does any stupid crap. What does this have to do with ME? About as much as Ryder being a pushover does. It shows that a well received character is written to be a pushover from time to time. CDPR likely thought that bathtub scene was "cool" so they wrote it into the game. If found extraordinarily cheezy. So what. Why should I (or anyone else for that matter) care that you don't like the asari scene anymore than you care about me not likely the bathtub scene at the beginning of The Witcher 3?
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