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Post by Artemis on Jan 29, 2019 17:03:28 GMT
I'll add that I don't quite get the fan attitude that people have about mage followers, as shown in the option mentioning Morrigan and Anders.
We've had Wynne, Morrigan, Velanna, DAA Anders, Merrill, DA2 Anders, Solas, Dorian, and Vivienne.
Only THREE of those nine are something other than they appear. Of the more, uh, negative mages -- Velanna, Merrill, Vivienne -- none hide their views or goals, and are pretty straightforward in their purpose. Then we have Wynne, DAA Anders, and Dorian that are "good" mages.
I'd even say that DA2 Anders is also straightforward in the game itself. He doesn't attempt to meter his rebellious views. While yes, the ultimate act is shocking, in hindsight, it's not all that surprising for the character.
Indeed so. I might add that before Solas, of all these only Anders had goals possibly detrimental to the protagonist's interests and was deceptive about making you help. I really don't get people's attitude to Morrigan, specifically. She had her own goal, sure, but it never clashed with yours. I don't know why people expect companions to have no interests except yours.
As for Solas, no, I didn't suspect him of anything fishy, right until the epilogue reveal of the maing game. Even less did I suspect his identity. I took him as he presented himself. Which is fine, really. A master trickster like him should be able to trick us without raising suspicion. I might've gotten somewhat suspicious with Cole and Solas in my party more often, but for some reason, I almost never had a party with both of them.
Oh yeah, sure, I just had to SLEEP WITH HER OR DIE. Wasn't really in my "daily goals" journal, I can assure you.
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Post by Ieldra on Jan 29, 2019 17:59:42 GMT
Indeed so. I might add that before Solas, of all these only Anders had goals possibly detrimental to the protagonist's interests and was deceptive about making you help. I really don't get people's attitude to Morrigan, specifically. She had her own goal, sure, but it never clashed with yours. I don't know why people expect companions to have no interests except yours.
As for Solas, no, I didn't suspect him of anything fishy, right until the epilogue reveal of the maing game. Even less did I suspect his identity. I took him as he presented himself. Which is fine, really. A master trickster like him should be able to trick us without raising suspicion. I might've gotten somewhat suspicious with Cole and Solas in my party more often, but for some reason, I almost never had a party with both of them.
Oh yeah, sure, I just had to SLEEP WITH HER OR DIE. Wasn't really in my "daily goals" journal, I can assure you. Yeah, well, you forget that death was on the table for you, or Alistair or Loghain, one way or the other, with no way out of it, and she didn't have anything to do with engineering that. On the opposite, Morrigan made it possible for you to cheat death, for the Maker's sake. To say that your interests didn't clash is, if anything, understating the situation drastically. I say put things into perspective, damn it, instead of voicing an objection whose hypocrisy-level I find hard to surpass.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 18:14:03 GMT
I worked out that he was an ancient elf relatively quickly. Some time shortly after we reached Skyhold, don't remember exactly which dialogue tipped me. I'd read The Masked Empire and recognised the type. I did NOT guess that he was Fen'Harel. My exact words during the coda scene were 'what the fucking fucking FUCK???' Because two fucks were not enough for now surprised I was. Yep, the Dread Wolf reveal was definitely a three to four fucks situation for me. 🙂
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jan 29, 2019 19:16:13 GMT
Well, I didn't know the specifics, but I'd heard enough chatter to know there was something up with him.
He wasn't as suspicious as Blackwall, though.
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Post by Artemis on Jan 29, 2019 19:25:12 GMT
Well, I didn't know the specifics, but I'd heard enough chatter to know there was something up with him. He wasn't as suspicious as Blackwall, though. I'm BioWare's ideal player. I didn't even pick up on Blackwall
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 29, 2019 20:15:05 GMT
Another thing as memtioned was even in the pre-release stuff there were things that made him suspicious. I remember people pointing out him being in the Judas spot in the image reminiscent to The Last Supper. And that image with him smirking in the back of the War Table room.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Jan 29, 2019 20:50:12 GMT
I had no idea, though I wasn't exactly looking for anything either. I also stopped going to the forums for months before release to avoid spoilers so I knew very little going into the game.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jan 29, 2019 20:56:46 GMT
he set of a few warning bells just like every first character I meet in Bioware games generally my mindset is 'who's going to betray me, or who's dying first?' now...Solas didn't die (yet) and hasn't betrayed me either (well, not really? (aside from the whole 'I'm gonna destroy the world' thing) I mean, my first Quizzy was good friends with him, and I've yet to play Trespasser) I had a mixed feeling during the reveal in the credits, part of me was 'that makes so much sense' and other part of me was 'but...why?! I like him!'
I still like him, but I didn't find him very suspicious, I found him fascinating I actually believed him when he said 'I learned everything from the Fade', boy was I wrong
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Blessed are the peacekeepers, the champions of the just.
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Post by Cybear on Jan 29, 2019 21:11:17 GMT
I was unfortunately spoiled before I finished the game, so I knew about who he was about half-way through. From what I can remember about my thoughts before-hand, I remember finding him a bit... off-putting, but if you had of asked me, 'is he behind everything?' I probably would've said no. Ulterior motives maybe, but not secretively-an-elven-god kind of motivation.
That said I didn't really like him my first few times around, so I didn't speak with him much, so maybe I would've been more suspicious if I had paid more attention to him.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 29, 2019 21:50:22 GMT
I had a hunch he was an ancient elf or at the very least from some enclave of elves that had little contact with the modern world, a bit like Haven or like the Temple of Mythal could have been without actually being an ancient enclave. Somehow the idea he just slept in some old ruins and picked up all this knowledge seemed a bit too easy, particularly all that stuff about ancient elvhenen. How was it that all these spirits were only too eager to impart all this ancient history to him and yet had never done so to any Keeper or other mage of the Dalish at all? I could almost put it down to the Dalish being wary of spirits but not quite. Also how he knew that the orb Corypheus had in his possession was elvish. When did he get the opportunity to relax in some ruins to find that one out? Not to mention he guided us to Skyhold that no one in the last few ages even seemed to be aware of (although you could say the same about Haven in DAO).
Trouble was every time I wanted to challenge him about it I was either deflected by the heart icon beckoning (I romanced him first run) or he was evasive in his reply. Even subsequent runs when I wasn't romancing him I still didn't get to question him as I would have liked. After the Temple of Mythal I definitely wanted to ask why Abelas had recognised him as one of his people but not me and that pretty much confirmed in my mind that my suspicion he was an ancient elf was correct. Fen-Harel though was a complete surprise.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 30, 2019 3:55:01 GMT
I didn't suspect him too much. Sure his knowledge and methodology of obtaining it was unorthodox, but there are several cultures and traditions in Thedas, so it was easy to believe that he was just the result of a rather unique upbringing in some part of the world. But he did seem rather hedgy in some places--either intentionally vague or deflecting the question. But I just chocked that up to him wanting to maintain his privacy like most non-Circle mages tend to do. Most Andrastians hate that non-Circe mages exist at all let alone the fact that he openly speaks to spirits. Plus he had that whole 'introverted recluse who has been hurt in the past' vibe.
But then we got to the Temple of Mythal. Abelas made it clear I, and elf, was not one of his people, then he talks to Solas for a bit and goes "Elvhen such as you?". And after that I was left to come up with two conclusions:
A: Solas was an ancient elf or the reincarnation of one. Or B: The writing team screwed up the Temple of Mythal dialogue way more than I thought. Yeah, even as new dragon age player I thought it was really weird of how I could ask "Who is Mythal?" despite clearly being a Dalish elf who should know that by age 5. So it was clear to me that something was either missing or buggy for the temple. And if that was the case then them mixing up dialogue for Solas wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Really sloppy for the game devs, but hey it happens.
And naturally, that he was Fen'Harel was beyond shocking.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jan 30, 2019 4:56:47 GMT
I wasn't suspicious for the first part of the game, i mean, i could tell he wasn't telling me everything but i didn't suspect it of being anything bad or not just the sought of thing you don't tell someone you don't know well yet. He seemed decent enough.
Everything flipped when i had the fade Haven dream sequence. The massively creepy way he whispers at you to wake up and asks if you slept well when you go talk to him afterwoods had alarm bells going off in my head. And then he tries to play it like it's you who did it and nah.
Even if my dwarf was some how dragged into dreaming by the anchor there's no way ending up talking to solas was a coincidence or something my character did.
So from that point on he was: that creepy guy who is definately hiding something baaad...
Had no idea what though, when i found out he was fen'harel and gave corypheus the orb i was like "*gasp* THAT'S what is was!"
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Post by bella on Jan 30, 2019 5:37:45 GMT
Good question! Honestly I had no fucking clue I still remember the confusion I felt after the ending with Mythal. Needless to say I started another playthrough straight after, 100% planning on romancing him, hahah. I was not disappointed.
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Post by noviere on Jan 30, 2019 10:16:18 GMT
I found him a bit evasive at times, but I'm pretty naive.
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Post by romice on Jan 30, 2019 12:00:33 GMT
Not at all to be honest. Before DAI's release, I wasn't following the forum closely, just looking for official Bioware announcements. I went into DAI decided that I wanted to romance Blackwall (what a disappointment THAT was) whom I liked well enough during the early game. As for Solas, I liked him quite a lot, but by then I was scared that I might have cut off the romance possibility by romancing Blackwall. So I was certain I'd want to romance Solas on my 2nd playthrough. I didn't take the elf with me on story missions, since I knew I'd do that during the following game. And then Cory died, Solas left, the credits rolled and shit went down. Along with my jaw dropping It was years ago, I wasn't very analysing while playing games back then. Now I catch on to plot twists way earlier, so I hope I might be able to do some predicting in DA4.
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Post by wickedcool on Jan 30, 2019 14:13:36 GMT
Never made the connection. I still don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by activating the ancient elven artifacts
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Some mornings I just don't feel like slaying dragons
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Post by FrodosCat on Jan 30, 2019 21:42:11 GMT
Had me eating out of his palm. Once I knew what to watch and listen for on subsequent playthroughs, it was all there from the beginning. His answers were evasive and he was lying by omission. Kudos to the writers, it was well done!
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Post by Julilla on Jan 30, 2019 22:25:38 GMT
I thought he had a really fresh and interesting take on spirits and the Fade, so he went almost everywhere with me. I trusted him implicitly. During that final scene with Flemythal, like others, I constantly repeated "what the fuck? whaaaat the fuck? whhhaaaaaattttt the fuuuuuuuck?" and then I laughed because I'd been got but good. I was well and truly had. Immediately, it made me start another play through.
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Post by tatarforas on Jan 31, 2019 0:07:15 GMT
Warning bells, but wasn't sure
I started to get really suspicious of him after I noticed a lot of the times he would just explain things away by saying he saw it in the fade, it just seemed odd, because sometimes it sounded like he had firsthand experience with certain things that simply viewing an event through the fade wouldn't be sufficient imo. A great example of this is if you bring him to the Winter Palace and then talk to him afterward "I had forgotten how I missed court intrigue." Yeah he's definitely talking from experience there.
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Post by Frost on Jan 31, 2019 0:52:47 GMT
A great example of this is if you bring him to the Winter Palace and then talk to him afterward "I had forgotten how I missed court intrigue." That was the best one. Not suspicious at all.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jan 31, 2019 7:30:58 GMT
I romanced him first playthrough and you really can't go thru that without being aware he's hiding *something*. I thought for a while it might have been that he was already involved with someone. It explained the romance hesitancy to me. lol And I was leaning towards him being an ancient elf by the time we got through Temple of Mythal. I thought maybe a Fen'Harel priest/servant, if there was such a thing, since he seemed particularly defensive about him in the convo with Morrigan at the statue. And I'd read Masked Empire, so I knew Fen'Harel was about and kicking somehow. I think I even said to a friend at the time that he could be a servant of Fen'Harel or maybe even Fen'Harel himself, but I wasn't remotely serious about that last bit. It was just a pure spitballed idea. When the stinger played and Flemeth called him "Dread Wolf" I freaked. out. lol
A great example of this is if you bring him to the Winter Palace and then talk to him afterward "I had forgotten how I missed court intrigue." That was the best one. Not suspicious at all. I still love that he gives slight disapproval if you ask what he means. It sticks out so much cus normally he likes questions from you. I was just like "... Uh-huh."
That and the actual line in the winter palace where he's talking about how he adores "the heady blend of power, intrigue, danger, and sex that permeates these events." and I was just like "Ok. Guessing someone can't hold their liquor as well as they think." cus he was clearly letting way more past his composure than he normally does. That entire thing did set off more "More than what he seems!" warning bells off for me. (Also, apprently there's a variant of the conversation where he does not say that line?
I have no idea how you'd get it though. its not romance dependent.)
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Post by ahglock on Jan 31, 2019 15:43:02 GMT
I’m surprised at how many people didn’t find him suspicious. The first rift you close there is no trial and error he just shoved your hand at it and it closes. I’m not deep into the lore. I didn’t know about ancient elves or any of that. I wonder if ignorance helps the normal tells to stand out. I travel the fade excuse for knowledge of a brand new phenomenon might make sense if I knew more.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jan 31, 2019 15:58:40 GMT
Solas was far too helpful and knew far too much. While I didn't know exactly what he was, I knew there was more to him.
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Post by lynroy on Feb 1, 2019 2:04:13 GMT
I was suspicious. He reminded me of Felassan.
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Post by mikoto on Feb 2, 2019 21:10:31 GMT
Ahh Solas. Ok first I avoided spoilers like crazy in the months leading up to DAI and in the weeks after until I'd beaten the game myself because I wanted to fully immerse myself in the game without extra meta knowledge. (I did the same thing with Fallout 4.)
At first I found it a bit... curious that an Elven apostate would voluntarily join... well. Chantry forces because before the game actually kicks off there is no Inquisition. All it seems to be is the Seeker and spy left and right hands of the Divine leading Chantry forces against the Breach after the Conclave explosion. I also found it a bit curious that this apostate elf seemed to know enough about the anchor to use it to first help close the first rift, then find out he knew enough about it to keep the would-be Herald alive long enough to be useful. Curious, but not suspicious initially. I figured he was probably a well-travelled apostate who had learned about magics nobody from the Circle would have delved into.
In time I grew a little more suspicious. Right around the time he showed us to Skyhold where he revealed he knew what the orb Corypheus used was, that it was elven in origin and some of the early conversations you can have in Skyhold. I started to find it a bit suspicious that he knew so much in such detail. If spirits were so eager and happy to reveal knowledge from centuries past with dreamers then why had there not been mages or Dalish Keepers who had managed to get such detailed knowledge? I know the Dalish are wary of spirits but you'd think there would be at least one rebel who would 'talk' with them over the last few thousand years. Its not unheard of. Merril was a rebel against her people's traditions.
In all honesty I suspected perhaps he was something akin to Morrigan and I admit my experiences with her and Anders did... enhance my suspicious nature. An apostate from the wilds with unique magic and knowledge and hidden agenda? Sound familiar? She'd managed to uncover and repair an Eluvian, my general theory was that Solas had access to some hidden knowledge or artifact that made him familiar with such subjects like the orb. I did believe that he learnt *some* things from dreaming in ancient ruins via the Fade but I suspected much of it came from another source. I hadn't read the Masked Empire. (Still haven't, keep meaning to.)
Then there was the post WEWH discussion mentioning that he missed and enjoyed various 'things' involved in court intriegue and didn't believe him when he said he'd seen it in the Fade. No that was talking from personal experience. Honestly I didn't know what to make of that. I could only guess perhaps he'd disguised himself as a servant and infiltrated the odd noble party or such in his past to learn how to 'blend in' with human society. But I wasn't sure.
Other than that I wasn't sure. I just found the combination of experience with Morrigan and Anders, the vagueness of his past, the sheer level of detail about things nobody else seemed to know, and the evasiveness of some of his answers just gave me an overall suspicion that there was much more going on with him than he was revealing.
I didn't expect him to be behind the rise of Corypheus and the Conclave explosion, I didn't suspect him of being an ancient elf, and I sure as heck didn't expect him to be Fen'Harel and creator of the veil. Those were epic surprises.
And frankly, unwelcome surprises. I liked Solas, he was one of my favourite companions and while my first playthrough had been as a human female warrior I was looking forward to creating an elf female to romance him with. To this day I still sort of wish he really had been just an elven apostate with some secret knowledge he'd dug up somewhere. Wouldn't have even minded if he'd been like Abelas. Just an ancient elf who had been in unethara... err...sleep for awhile who had awoken when he sensed Corypheus as a threat using an elf orb.
I do hope we can talk him down and redeem him. Except for the whole "I want to destroy your world" thing, I like him.
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