ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Feb 4, 2019 5:15:40 GMT
I'm replaying ME3 while also playing MEA and the differences in the bosses is huge. Part of it is the linear maps reducing maneuverability, but in Andromeda we have what the fiend which is similar to the brute, the brute being harder due to the tighter corridors and lack of jet packs, the remnant tank whose name i can't remember about the same as the ME3s atlas which is also in MEA and the globe dude, there is no real equivalent but he is stupid easy to kill, just kind of tedious. Me3 had the banshee which while not crazy hard or anything its teleportation and sound effects added tension and its varied defense is something you had to learn, the sub boss the phantom was farking hard without the right load out. I want more of the last 2 and less of the rest, I mean sure you need a easy boss like the brute/fiend but bosses should for the most part be scary, Heck in Me3 even non boss units like ravagers were harder than what I bumped into in MEA because they had good enemy combinations, husks would be flanking you, cannibals tossing grenades timed well with the ravagers auto cannon of doom.
If there are 5 boss units in the next game I want 4 of them to be like the banshee but with unique quirks that make them challenging. I want better use of grenades and close up units to push you around with other units that kills you almost instantly if they catch you in their line of fire. And unique bosses should be dialed to 11 craziness. Which remnant tiller boss I'll give them credit for, constantly spawning additional units, crazy shields and armor, a solid attack to keep most builds in cover. That is one of the better bosses in any of their games, sadly its the only boss worth a damn in all of MEA.
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Post by hulluliini on Feb 4, 2019 10:06:30 GMT
I like the fiends, but admittedly they're too easy if there's just one. Those missions where you have three are terrifying. Maybe they should have just make fiends roam in packs instead of alone.
The Architects should have some direct physical attack where they pound the ground trying to smash the player or something. They're not terrifying in themselves, just tedious like you said.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 4, 2019 14:43:35 GMT
I had actually forgot about the architects they are that boring. I was thinking of the destroyer. It’s pretty basic. Stay in cover when the autofire is going pop out and pop up and shoot an arm while avoiding the timed big cannon. If it moved faster had a giant leap at you move and it’s close range move was faster I’d dig it.
Edit to add. The more I think about it it’s also the elite units. I mean observer and the mini gun dude actually were less threatening than the run of the mill unit. The outcasts/rokkar had okay elite units but they were more defense oriented either stealing shields or reflecting attacks, they needed a more threatening unit.
I suspect some of this is the open world in action. You can’t have kill you in 1 second dudes as often when cover is consistently 5 seconds away. But I just never felt pressured in mea outside the remnant tiller. ME3 while not super hard or anything had points that challenged me if I didn’t slow walk it too much.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 4, 2019 23:03:45 GMT
I'd like to see the "boss" concept just die. Bio hasn't shown that they're any good at it, and it's kind of dopey anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 0:49:41 GMT
I'd like to see the "boss" concept just die. Bio hasn't shown that they're any good at it, and it's kind of dopey anyway. I agree. The ME boss fight I liked the least was the one against Saren. Stage One you don't even have to do, just talk him into offing himself and then stage 2 can be one just by spamming your immunity and pumping your infinite AR in his general direction as he flits about the room... just a matter of whittling away his health bar. I thought ME:A was a big improvement... far more tension during the run up to the last room and a lot of different things going on (requiring paying more attention to getting to the various zones and more of your team joining in the fights). It would have been better had they actually made us fight the architect to the death... and, sure, a stomp attack would have been a really cool addition to it's variety of attacks. It sure beat lobbing a couple of missiles at the Reaper in the final fight of ME3 or the targeting laser fight on Rannoch.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 5, 2019 1:23:41 GMT
I'd like to see the "boss" concept just die. Bio hasn't shown that they're any good at it, and it's kind of dopey anyway. If you are talking about end level bosses I pretty much agree. I’m mainly thinking of elite mobs which I think the game needs for combat challenge and variety.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 10:13:05 GMT
I'd like to see the "boss" concept just die. Bio hasn't shown that they're any good at it, and it's kind of dopey anyway. If you are talking about end level bosses I pretty much agree. I’m mainly thinking of elite mobs which I think the game needs for combat challenge and variety. As merely elite enemies, the only thing missing from the attack arsenal of the ascendants, destroyers and architects in ME:A was mobility to match the increased amount of mobility the player had. They were unique elite mobs whose attacks were quite a bit different from the other mobs in the game... so they did serve their purpose and add variety to the game.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 5, 2019 14:39:24 GMT
The ME boss fight I liked the least was the one against Saren. I agree completely. The thing is, Saren was only sort of a boss. The real threat was Sovereign. Problem was that defeating Saren's death somehow weakened Sovereign in a way that was never explained. Hence, it was a failure of a boss fight and better left unused. The human Reaper was something of a necessity. I don't think the SM would have really worked well without it since it kind of leads into ME3.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 5, 2019 15:14:47 GMT
If you are talking about end level bosses I pretty much agree. I’m mainly thinking of elite mobs which I think the game needs for combat challenge and variety. As merely elite enemies, the only thing missing from the attack arsenal of the ascendants, destroyers and architects in ME:A was mobility to match the increased amount of mobility the player had. They were unique elite mobs whose attacks were quite a bit different from the other mobs in the game... so they did serve their purpose and add variety to the game. That’s a big thing to be missing which is why I brought up how open world design probably effected this. And even then though only the destroyer and atlas clone had threatening enough attacks to worry about with increased mobility. Unless you somehow manage to let yourself get sync killed the other 2 had such a large delay between attacks you had to work to be killed by them.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 5, 2019 15:23:37 GMT
The ME boss fight I liked the least was the one against Saren. I agree completely. The thing is, Saren was only sort of a boss. The real threat was Sovereign. Problem was that defeating Saren's death somehow weakened Sovereign in a way that was never explained. Hence, it was a failure of a boss fight and better left unused. The human Reaper was something of a necessity. I don't think the SM would have really worked well without it since it kind of leads into ME3. I thought the Saren fight was lame but maybe it’s my playing shadowrun and cyberpunk but it made perfect sense too me how it effected Sovereign. His mind took a whammy when he had a direct mental link to sarens body to control the corpse. The human reaper. I’d of been fine with it ending when you destroyed the supports dropping it into the abyss. It didn’t need to crawl back up and fight you. I think setting the bomb and having a countdown based escape run would have been a better ending than fighting that. A interesting countdown would be giving the player a choice in how much time. Knowing some collectors would escape on the longer times but also increasing the odds your whole team made it out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 15:25:54 GMT
The ME boss fight I liked the least was the one against Saren. I agree completely. The thing is, Saren was only sort of a boss. The real threat was Sovereign. Problem was that defeating Saren's death somehow weakened Sovereign in a way that was never explained. Hence, it was a failure of a boss fight and better left unused. The human Reaper was something of a necessity. I don't think the SM would have really worked well without it since it kind of leads into ME3. Yes, the final boss fight in ME1 should have had Shepard participating directly in taking down Sovereign (in order for it to have been a proper boss fight). They made the same sort of mistake in ME:A. IMO, they should have had Archon's attaching himself to the remnant result in him becoming the Architect in the last battle and we should have been required to defeat that architect in order to beat the game. To be a more challenging enemy, the architects in general should have had more mobility and the final one should have been additionally tough (with an added new attack). IMO, Bioware was very close (as close as they've ever been) to putting together a great boss fight/final battle sequence in ME:A... they just fell a little short (perhaps they were a little too short on time to really put it all together).
The Human Reaper boss fight was fine in principle. Again, the fight needed more mobility. Even something so small as having more, smaller platforms and the removal of the platforms occurring more rapidly would have made the fight more "terrifying" and challenging. Something more like the cutscene we get as Shepard and crew are running back to the Normandy. I have had a few fights where the harbingers move more than others, but more often than not, they stick to the platform they arrive on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 15:30:51 GMT
As merely elite enemies, the only thing missing from the attack arsenal of the ascendants, destroyers and architects in ME:A was mobility to match the increased amount of mobility the player had. They were unique elite mobs whose attacks were quite a bit different from the other mobs in the game... so they did serve their purpose and add variety to the game. That’s a big thing to be missing which is why I brought up how open world design probably effected this. And even then though only the destroyer and atlas clone had threatening enough attacks to worry about with increased mobility. Unless you somehow manage to let yourself get sync killed the other 2 had such a large delay between attacks you had to work to be killed by them. It's not that the enemies in ME:A are less mobile than the other games though. It's that the player's mobility increased significantly between ME3 and ME:A. They failed on the mobility front in both ME2 and ME3. Saren had mobility that exceeded the player's, but it was really just pointless since the player had a neverendum rapid-fire weapon (infinite AR or infinite pistol with marksman), so even inaccurate fire would eventually bring Saren down.
I also seen numerous youtubers die during that last fight and their first architect fight, several more than once to know it's not as dead easy as you like to proclaim.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 5, 2019 15:42:34 GMT
It's too bad Harbinger couldn't take control of the proto reaper. I do agree with the above post that shooting the supports should be enough to deal with 3-eyes.
I like the fiend. It was great seeing it grab the duck, take a big bite out her/him, then smash them to the ground like a piece of crap.
The fight with the kett-in-a-bubble was alright.
Fighting the grasshopper at the end of ME1 was...yeah, sure, whatever.
Even the fight with Leng was lame. On Thessia, have the guy start fighting, then a few phantoms show up. Shepard has to deal with them. While that's going on, Leng leaves the fight to grab the info, then leaves just as Shepard finishes with the phantoms.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 5, 2019 15:55:49 GMT
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Feb 5, 2019 18:35:04 GMT
That’s a big thing to be missing which is why I brought up how open world design probably effected this. And even then though only the destroyer and atlas clone had threatening enough attacks to worry about with increased mobility. Unless you somehow manage to let yourself get sync killed the other 2 had such a large delay between attacks you had to work to be killed by them. It's not that the enemies in ME:A are less mobile than the other games though. It's that the player's mobility increased significantly between ME3 and ME:A. They failed on the mobility front in both ME2 and ME3. Saren had mobility that exceeded the player's, but it was really just pointless since the player had a neverendum rapid-fire weapon (infinite AR or infinite pistol with marksman), so even inaccurate fire would eventually bring Saren down.
I also seen numerous youtubers die during that last fight and their first architect fight, several more than once to know it's not as dead easy as you like to proclaim.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough previously, but yes the close world and reduced mobility added some of their boss difficulty in me3 and similarly open worlds and increased mobility reduced the challenge of many enemies in mea. Which style of mobility is the fail is largely a matter of taste. And yes people will die in the fights. That’s less about the challenge of the enemies ability or attack pattern and more about the length of the fight. In a long enough fight it’s easy for anyone to make a mistake. And the architects had one move the autofire laser that could kill you quick if you were out of cover when that started shooting. The architects could work as a tough enemy even with a static position but it shouldn’t only spawn remnant when it’s attack is down for a while. If you had to both pay attention and deal with remnant while avoiding the architects attacks it could be a legitimately challenging fight and not a if we draw this fight out long enough people will get impatient and make a mistake style difficulty. If it continuously spawned enemies and it was mobile that would be a epic fight. I’ve died in architect fights and every time it was for the same reason. I got bored with how long it was taking so I took a stupid risk to try and speed it up. The only challenge is to my patience. The end boss fight I don’t remember too well but that if I recall was actually reasonably difficult as it has what I was talking about. A boss with multiple spawning enemies giving you a lot to deal with so it wasn’t just a simple learn to listen for the guns about to go sound effect. But again I’m talking more about elite units than the end boss fight.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 5, 2019 18:48:37 GMT
I think the Krogan battlemaster in ME1 was probably the best boss battle all around in the trilogy, because being a krogan, he'd be more than a handful against a human anyway. It fit the "boss" mechanic without being overly stupid. He just rushed at you and finding cover was difficult when the stupid geth were trained on you with their rifles. There were no add waves. It was just them, and on my first playthrough, it was a bitch to defeat.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 20:40:58 GMT
I think the Krogan battlemaster in ME1 was probably the best boss battle all around in the trilogy, because being a krogan, he'd be more than a handful against a human anyway. It fit the "boss" mechanic without being overly stupid. He just rushed at you and finding cover was difficult when the stupid geth were trained on you with their rifles. There were no add waves. It was just them, and on my first playthrough, it was a bitch to defeat. The Krogan battlemaster suffers from the same flaw as all the enemies in ME1. They spawn in exactly the same place and run exactly the same pattern of attack in every single playthrough. The Krogan battlemaster will move to Shepard's left as a geth moves to the right to get to the cover that is to Shepard's right and behind coverr and two geth will run to the cover that is slightly behind them and to their left as they face you. If Kaidan is along, the KBM can be dropped with a single neural shock. Warp will also leave him quite vulnerable. Lift or singularity will also make the fight a snap. Sure, on the first playthrough, any of the fights can be tough, but only because the player is unfamiliar with the enemies. Most frequently, new players attempt Therum right after leaving the Citadel for the first time, so the KBM is the first elite enemy the player usually faces. They also are usually very unfamiliar with using their powers at all and often are sitting are Level 7 (maybe Level 10 if they did a thorough job clearing the Citadel of side quests). If the player doesn't go to Therum early and learns about using powers (as opposed to just gunning their way through the playthrough), the KBM is a pushover, really. After the first playthrough, he's completely predictable as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 20:59:37 GMT
It's not that the enemies in ME:A are less mobile than the other games though. It's that the player's mobility increased significantly between ME3 and ME:A. They failed on the mobility front in both ME2 and ME3. Saren had mobility that exceeded the player's, but it was really just pointless since the player had a neverendum rapid-fire weapon (infinite AR or infinite pistol with marksman), so even inaccurate fire would eventually bring Saren down.
I also seen numerous youtubers die during that last fight and their first architect fight, several more than once to know it's not as dead easy as you like to proclaim.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough previously, but yes the close world and reduced mobility added some of their boss difficulty in me3 and similarly open worlds and increased mobility reduced the challenge of many enemies in mea. Which style of mobility is the fail is largely a matter of taste. And yes people will die in the fights. That’s less about the challenge of the enemies ability or attack pattern and more about the length of the fight. In a long enough fight it’s easy for anyone to make a mistake. And the architects had one move the autofire laser that could kill you quick if you were out of cover when that started shooting. The architects could work as a tough enemy even with a static position but it shouldn’t only spawn remnant when it’s attack is down for a while. If you had to both pay attention and deal with remnant while avoiding the architects attacks it could be a legitimately challenging fight and not a if we draw this fight out long enough people will get impatient and make a mistake style difficulty. If it continuously spawned enemies and it was mobile that would be a epic fight. I’ve died in architect fights and every time it was for the same reason. I got bored with how long it was taking so I took a stupid risk to try and speed it up. The only challenge is to my patience. The end boss fight I don’t remember too well but that if I recall was actually reasonably difficult as it has what I was talking about. A boss with multiple spawning enemies giving you a lot to deal with so it wasn’t just a simple learn to listen for the guns about to go sound effect. But again I’m talking more about elite units than the end boss fight. I disagree... the closed world and reduced mobility did not add difficulty to the boss fights in ME3. The fights you note as being interesting for you (namely against banshees) had lots of space. Of the elite enemies in ME3, the banshees were probably among the most mobile; but even they had a definitive pattern to their attacks that could be easily identified and, once identified, exploited to bring them down rather quickly and without much risk to the player. Shepard was also the most mobile in ME3 as Bioware continually added to player mobility throughout the Trilogy. The open-world concept has little to do with that. Lack of cover in ME:A was used to add challenge to some of the fights against lower level enemies, but there was generally a significant amount of cover available to the player during fights with elite enemies since these fights generally occurred during specific missions that had specific maps/facilities associated with them.
By mobility, I'm referring to Ryder's ability to move vs. the enemies ability to move. Ryder was the most mobile of any ME protagonist (being able to leap with the jump jet as well as dash quickly in any direction). Shepard in ME3 was pretty mobile as well (being able to combat roll and hop over cover). ME1 offered the player the least amount of mobility. In all games, for the most part, the bigger bosses (size wise) were never mobile. The Thorian was completely stationary, the human protoreaper was mostly stationary, the reapers in ME3 were stationary... and so it shouldn't be a surprise that the architects in ME:A were largely stationary... but even they were more mobile than their predecessors of similar size in that they did rise up and move locations twice during a fight.
Fiends and brutes were essentially the same, but Ryder had a better arsenal to deal with them, so those fights were easier. Ditto for atlases vs. hydras and regular destroyers.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 6, 2019 0:21:31 GMT
I think the Krogan battlemaster in ME1 was probably the best boss battle all around in the trilogy, because being a krogan, he'd be more than a handful against a human anyway. It fit the "boss" mechanic without being overly stupid. He just rushed at you and finding cover was difficult when the stupid geth were trained on you with their rifles. There were no add waves. It was just them, and on my first playthrough, it was a bitch to defeat. The Krogan battlemaster suffers from the same flaw as all the enemies in ME1. They spawn in exactly the same place and run exactly the same pattern of attack in every single playthrough. The Krogan battlemaster will move to Shepard's left as a geth moves to the right to get to the cover that is to Shepard's right and behind coverr and two geth will run to the cover that is slightly behind them and to their left as they face you. If Kaidan is along, the KBM can be dropped with a single neural shock. Warp will also leave him quite vulnerable. Lift or singularity will also make the fight a snap. Sure, on the first playthrough, any of the fights can be tough, but only because the player is unfamiliar with the enemies. Most frequently, new players attempt Therum right after leaving the Citadel for the first time, so the KBM is the first elite enemy the player usually faces. They also are usually very unfamiliar with using their powers at all and often are sitting are Level 7 (maybe Level 10 if they did a thorough job clearing the Citadel of side quests). If the player doesn't go to Therum early and learns about using powers (as opposed to just gunning their way through the playthrough), the KBM is a pushover, really. After the first playthrough, he's completely predictable as well. That seems to be bosses in general though. I can predict just about any pattern of attack for any boss in the ME games, but I'm just talking about the effect on a fresh run where you don't know anything about the boss. I thought it was pretty effective, even if a subsequent playthrough is perfectly predictable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 14:37:04 GMT
The Krogan battlemaster suffers from the same flaw as all the enemies in ME1. They spawn in exactly the same place and run exactly the same pattern of attack in every single playthrough. The Krogan battlemaster will move to Shepard's left as a geth moves to the right to get to the cover that is to Shepard's right and behind coverr and two geth will run to the cover that is slightly behind them and to their left as they face you. If Kaidan is along, the KBM can be dropped with a single neural shock. Warp will also leave him quite vulnerable. Lift or singularity will also make the fight a snap. Sure, on the first playthrough, any of the fights can be tough, but only because the player is unfamiliar with the enemies. Most frequently, new players attempt Therum right after leaving the Citadel for the first time, so the KBM is the first elite enemy the player usually faces. They also are usually very unfamiliar with using their powers at all and often are sitting are Level 7 (maybe Level 10 if they did a thorough job clearing the Citadel of side quests). If the player doesn't go to Therum early and learns about using powers (as opposed to just gunning their way through the playthrough), the KBM is a pushover, really. After the first playthrough, he's completely predictable as well. That seems to be bosses in general though. I can predict just about any pattern of attack for any boss in the ME games, but I'm just talking about the effect on a fresh run where you don't know anything about the boss. I thought it was pretty effective, even if a subsequent playthrough is perfectly predictable. As i said though, the difficulty of the KBM encounter doesn't upscale well with the player. If Therum is done later in the game, it's a very easy encounter even for new players. If Therum is done later, they've already encountered groups of Krogan that are more aggressive than the KBM. Conversely, if players do Noveria first, they are confronted with a very tough fight against Benezia... and I've seen some new players on youtube get very, very frustrated with that encounter after dying multiple times right at the outset when the first Asari hits them with a warp just as Shepard is coming out of stasis.
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